JBL 'M2' Master Reference Monitor - Page 146 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4351 of 4620 Old 01-04-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Not intending to faithfully reproduce gunshots, per se. I heard m2's last year, and it seemed to me that the m2's excelled at gunshots in a manner I have never heard before. It could have been due to a variety of factors, includes an elavated floor, room acoustics, processor settings, the waveguide, etc.
I have no doubt M2s are one of the absolute finest for gunshot sound, but I'm glad you are not shooting [pun intended] for the real thing. We all deserve good hearing.

Also a word of note: at least one recent movie, Dunkirk, [oddly well regarded for its sound by some] has grossly distorted [clipped] gun shots throughout the entire movie, so that's one to avoid for what you seek to evaluate.
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post #4352 of 4620 Old 01-04-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I have no doubt M2s are one of the absolute finest for gunshot sound, but I'm glad you are not shooting [pun intended] for the real thing. We all deserve good hearing.

Also a word of note: at least one recent movie, Dunkirk, [oddly well regarded for its sound by some] has grossly distorted [clipped] gun shots throughout the entire movie, so that's one to avoid for what you seek to evaluate.

That is very good info. Thanks for leting me know about Dunkirk. The gun shots in the beginning of the film are clipped?

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post #4353 of 4620 Old 01-04-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by javierschmidt View Post


I am still struggling to change the amp from the Itech 5000 to the 4x1250. Hopefully this weekend I will have some time to do it.
Hello. What is the reason to switch from the itechto the 4/1250? I am looking at amp choices for M2's myself, and there are several avenues that I see potential for. Thanks!

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post #4354 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
That is very good info. Thanks for leting me know about Dunkirk. The gun shots in the beginning of the film are clipped?
All of this red throughout the whole movie is brief clipping:


We have threads about it, I think, and Nolan actually signed off on using the clipped sound instead of a more realistic snap because the though it sounded nicer, IIRC.
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In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #4355 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 06:48 AM
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Has anyone here heard the 1400 Array speakers,and if so how would you compare them to the M2. I'm going to be joining the ranks of the retired in about a year and I was wondering about what might be the last pair of speakers in this range for me. I've heard the 1400 Arrays before a they sound great,thanks for any info.

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post #4356 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Hello. What is the reason to switch from the itechto the 4/1250? I am looking at amp choices for M2's myself, and there are several avenues that I see potential for. Thanks!

I have already tried 3 possibilities:


1) Ncore Hypex with MiniDSP: It was OK, but after listening to the Itech 5000HD the SPL was better with them. Maybe my mistake in the configuration...
2) Itech 5000 HD. I bought it preconfigured and it was easy and just perfect. The SPL is brutal, more than I would ever need.

3) Crown DCI 4x1250N: I need to do this for 3 reasons, I have 3 JBL M2 with matching amps (I would need 3 Itech 5000 HD) which takes a lot of space and I have 2 Full Marty in mind which requires the extra 2 channels from the Crown (2) 4x1250


The problem is that I can not get to connect with the Crown 4x1250, I have tried everything, firewalls, cables, new router, everything and I can not do it.



I will post for sale my Itech 5000HD if it is your interest, I am located in Florida


Regards,
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post #4357 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by skypop View Post
Has anyone here heard the 1400 Array speakers,and if so how would you compare them to the M2. I'm going to be joining the ranks of the retired in about a year and I was wondering about what might be the last pair of speakers in this range for me. I've heard the 1400 Arrays before a they sound great,thanks for any info.

Hello:


I owned the JBL 1400 Array with the 800 and 880 and 1500. Believe it or not it was better to listen to music with the 800.



I own now the JBL M2 and it is another league, and I can make a fair comparison because the JBL 1400 were used with active and passive XO and both powered with Hypex NCore and MiniDsp



The M2 beats the 1400 in every aspect but aesthetics, which is very arguable.


Anything you need to know let me know.
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post #4358 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 10:31 AM
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Seems odd how the tweeter, oops, "compression driver" I mean is turned 90 degrees the wrong way on the 1400. [I'm sure they have their reasons]. So I think it is only fitting that this spinorama is also turned 90 degrees away from normal:


The high frequencies above 4k look ragged. Could be lobbing?
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post #4359 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 11:26 AM
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Very interesting comments after the review.


https://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...ker/index.html
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post #4360 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Seems odd how the tweeter, oops, "compression driver" I mean is turned 90 degrees the wrong way on the 1400. [I'm sure they have their reasons]. So I think it is only fitting that this spinorama is also turned 90 degrees away from normal:


The high frequencies above 4k look ragged. Could be lobbing?
Large center to center between the compression driver and supertweeter combinee with very short wavelenghts + potential time offset due to supertweeter being in front of the CD.
All things considered that’s a pretty good loudspeaker.
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post #4361 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierschmidt View Post
Hello:


I owned the JBL 1400 Array with the 800 and 880 and 1500. Believe it or not it was better to listen to music with the 800.



I own now the JBL M2 and it is another league, and I can make a fair comparison because the JBL 1400 were used with active and passive XO and both powered with Hypex NCore and MiniDsp



The M2 beats the 1400 in every aspect but aesthetics, which is very arguable.


Anything you need to know let me know.
Thank you for your response,I'm trying to get a pair of these this coming spring,are any of the amps used for the M2 quiet enough to be in the room with the speakers? Just trying to have a headstart on this purchase. Thanks for any info.

2 Channel: Fi 2A3 mono's,Hovland HP100,Technics SP10MK2/SME/Benz....HT:126" Seymour AT Screen,JBL Studio 590's for LCR, Side and Rear Surrounds. Jbl SCS8'S for Fr Heights, and Rear Heights,2 Epik Empire Subs,2 Behringer B1200D Midbass Subs,Marantz 7702MK2,Proceed Amp-5,Outlaw 7125,Panasonic UB820 ,Toshiba HD35,JVC RS600. Black Velvet.
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post #4362 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by skypop View Post
Thank you for your response,I'm trying to get a pair of these this coming spring,are any of the amps used for the M2 quiet enough to be in the room with the speakers? Just trying to have a headstart on this purchase. Thanks for any info.

It is really noisy, I would recommend to look for alternatives, mainly other room. As already mentioned I have tried the Hypex NCore and they are great, pure silence, but not in the same league regarding SPL, and funny thing at low volumes the bass is better with the Crown.



I use Crown Itech 5000 HD and DCI 4x1250 and they are both very noisy. I sit 10 feet away and I can clearly hear it, Watching an action movie is not a problem but if you want to watch "Little House on the praire"....


Regards,
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post #4363 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by javierschmidt View Post
It is really noisy, I would recommend to look for alternatives, mainly other room. As already mentioned I have tried the Hypex NCore and they are great, pure silence, but not in the same league regarding SPL, and funny thing at low volumes the bass is better with the Crown.



I use Crown Itech 5000 HD and DCI 4x1250 and they are both very noisy. I sit 10 feet away and I can clearly hear it, Watching an action movie is not a problem but if you want to watch "Little House on the praire"....


Regards,
No way I would have them in my room. Way too loud. I have a garage below my room and I have them down there. But I also listen to music late at night and I want a silent noise floor.
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post #4364 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 02:02 PM
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I used this Hypex model

http://www.atmstore.es/en/clase-d-modelo-epm2/



I had 2 and only one left, amazing amp, great quality. Specially for music.



I have an 11 channel amplifier with 11 Hypex modules, something truly amazing to listen to, but I have gone active and I like it better (ask me in one year if it is still so)


Regards,
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post #4365 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by javierschmidt View Post
I used this Hypex model

http://www.atmstore.es/en/clase-d-modelo-epm2/



I had 2 and only one left, amazing amp, great quality. Specially for music.



I have an 11 channel amplifier with 11 Hypex modules, something truly amazing to listen to, but I have gone active and I like it better (ask me in one year if it is still so)


Regards,
I quit worrying about if there is "better". It's a rat race. In my journey to the M2's there was always a flaw I heard with my prior speakers that had me on the hunt for new speakers on a regular cycle. With the M2's, I don't hear any flaws(not that they're aren't any) so I have zero desire to look for something else just to see if there is "better" .
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post #4366 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 02:25 PM
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I quit worrying about if there is "better". It's a rat race. In my journey to the M2's there was always a flaw I heard with my prior speakers that had me on the hunt for new speakers on a regular cycle. With the M2's, I don't hear any flaws(not that they're aren't any) so I have zero desire to look for something else just to see if there is "better" .
I totally agree. I just sit and relax while previously I was wondering if I could improve one thing or the other.
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post #4367 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 02:42 PM
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No way I would have them in my room. Way too loud. I have a garage below my room and I have them down there. But I also listen to music late at night and I want a silent noise floor.
I don't have another room for the amps to go,I guess I should look at the Hypex Ncore amps. After I retire I'm going to turn my attic into my 2 Channel room,it used to be a sundeck that I turned into a attic,but now it will be my music room and my wife will get her living room back lol. When I finish the attic I can build a side room for any noisy equipment.

2 Channel: Fi 2A3 mono's,Hovland HP100,Technics SP10MK2/SME/Benz....HT:126" Seymour AT Screen,JBL Studio 590's for LCR, Side and Rear Surrounds. Jbl SCS8'S for Fr Heights, and Rear Heights,2 Epik Empire Subs,2 Behringer B1200D Midbass Subs,Marantz 7702MK2,Proceed Amp-5,Outlaw 7125,Panasonic UB820 ,Toshiba HD35,JVC RS600. Black Velvet.
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post #4368 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 03:13 PM
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Yesterday was bittersweet to say the least. My Pair if M2s arrived and then immediately went into storage for a few weeks. Wish I could have played with them but no such luck. Oh well, Guess I’ll have to wait a little longer
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post #4369 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 03:19 PM
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You guys are more patient than I was. I had them out right away and although my current setup is nowhere near as nice as most in here, it was laughable for the first year.

Unfortunately the house I have has huge vaulted ceilings and the room sounds pretty bad.

Still, the M2's have sounded better than anything else in this room and I'm stuck with it until I get another house.
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post #4370 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 04:13 PM
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Yesterday was bittersweet to say the least. My Pair if M2s arrived and then immediately went into storage for a few weeks. Wish I could have played with them but no such luck. Oh well, Guess I’ll have to wait a little longer
Yeah, that's tough. @Molon_Labe also has some sitting in a box. I'll listen for you guys. It's the least I can do .
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post #4371 of 4620 Old 01-05-2019, 08:00 PM
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Hi guys... So my wife and I have been talking and came to a difficult decision to sell my system. As painful as it will be, we need the funds use towards renovations for our Japanese Restaurant we own in Arizona. The system has its owned dedicated room upstairs but we rarely go upstairs. The system just gets listened to couple times a month and sometimes we can go months without listening. Doesn't help my wife isn't into watching movies or into HiFi. Anyways I have three JBL M2's with three itech5000hd in mint condition like new condition. I have one center M2 and Itech5000hd that is less than six months I believe. I have owned the other two M2s and itechs for about a year and half to two years I believe. I also have two Seaton F18+ subs both with internal amps purchased around the same time as my pair of M2s. And I have a Marantz AV8805 only few weeks old. I am the original owner. I have boxes for all except for the subs. I prefer to deal locally but willing to ship. PM me if you are you know anyone that is interested. I would like to sell the speakers and amps as a set if possible.

Thank you!
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post #4372 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 08:33 AM
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Hi guys... So my wife and I have been talking and came to a difficult decision to sell my system. As painful as it will be, we need the funds use towards renovations for our Japanese Restaurant we own in Arizona. The system has its owned dedicated room upstairs but we rarely go upstairs. The system just gets listened to couple times a month and sometimes we can go months without listening. Doesn't help my wife isn't into watching movies or into HiFi. Anyways I have three JBL M2's with three itech5000hd in mint condition like new condition. I have one center M2 and Itech5000hd that is less than six months I believe. I have owned the other two M2s and itechs for about a year and half to two years I believe. I also have two Seaton F18+ subs both with internal amps purchased around the same time as my pair of M2s. And I have a Marantz AV8805 only few weeks old. I am the original owner. I have boxes for all except for the subs. I prefer to deal locally but willing to ship. PM me if you are you know anyone that is interested. I would like to sell the speakers and amps as a set if possible.

Thank you!
That's too bad, but stuff like this can always be repurchased. Priorities suck, but that's what they call "manning up".

You have far less sympathy from me for having to sell your speakers than my encouragement and wishes for the success of your business.

Good luck!
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That's too bad, but stuff like this can always be repurchased. Priorities suck, but that's what they call "manning up".

You have far less sympathy from me for having to sell your speakers than my encouragement and wishes for the success of your business.

Good luck!

Thank you Gooddoc!
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post #4374 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 08:59 AM
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BTW I also have a mint condition Marantz AV8802A for sale as well if anyone is interested. Thanks guys for all your help and support!
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What type of Preamps are you guys using with the M2s? My system where they will be is 2 Channel Only,I've been using a Hovland that I really like the sound of that I'm not wanting to get rid of. Thanks

2 Channel: Fi 2A3 mono's,Hovland HP100,Technics SP10MK2/SME/Benz....HT:126" Seymour AT Screen,JBL Studio 590's for LCR, Side and Rear Surrounds. Jbl SCS8'S for Fr Heights, and Rear Heights,2 Epik Empire Subs,2 Behringer B1200D Midbass Subs,Marantz 7702MK2,Proceed Amp-5,Outlaw 7125,Panasonic UB820 ,Toshiba HD35,JVC RS600. Black Velvet.
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post #4376 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 10:04 AM
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What type of Preamps are you guys using with the M2s? My system where they will be is 2 Channel Only,I've been using a Hovland that I really like the sound of that I'm not wanting to get rid of. Thanks
I'm using an Anthem AVM60 for HT. I think a few others are as well along with Molon using NAD and there's a few using Trinnov/SDP-75.

If I were doing 2 channel only I'd likely just use a Trinnov ST2 with whatever and call it a day.
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post #4377 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 10:20 AM
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Sorry this long, but I'm trouble shooting a problem with the setup...

I've noticed that vocals and other sounds are slightly offset to the left, and the center imaging isn't as tight as I would have expected. The room setup is symmetrical, the speakers are equidistant from the listening position (+/- 0.1"), and the speakers are toed in equally.

This morning I measured the speakers with Omnimic, and beginning at ~800hz the right channel is 4db lower than the left channel. Other then the shelved lower output above 800hz, the frequency responses or nearly identical, and distortion measurements don't show any point of concern. The polarity is also correct for all drivers.

I have also reviewed the crossover, eq, and input/output level and gain settings in the harman software and they all appear correct. I checked the manual input attenuators on the back of the amp and they are all set to the 0db position (maximum input level).

I'm now going to swap the left and right speaker wiring on the amp to see if the problem switches speakers.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions about a bad amp module... Any other suggestions of what I should try next?

I also have what I presume is a ground loop issue that I've greatly improved- but not eliminated. I've turned off all dimmer switches, disconnected all inputs, tried swapping outlets, using a single power strip for the AVR and amp, etc., and just cant't get the buzzing noise to go away completely unless I disconnect the AVR. The buzzing also gets much quieter when there is no signal coming from the AVR. FWIW, using the same outputs/cables I have no buzzing issue when using the 708p.

Ah.... the joys of incorporating new equipment into a system.

Last edited by bugal1998; 01-06-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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post #4378 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 10:29 AM
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Sorry this long, but I'm trouble shooting a problem with the setup...

I've noticed that vocals and other sounds are slightly offset to the left, and the center imaging isn't as tight as I would have expected. The room setup is symmetrical, the speakers are equidistant from the listening position (+/- 0.1"), and the speakers are toed in equally.

This morning I measured the speakers with Omnimic, and beginning at ~800hz the right channel is 4db lower than the left channel. Other then the shelved lower output above 800hz, the frequency responses or nearly identical, and distortion measurements don't show any point of concern. The polarity is also correct for all drivers.

I have also reviewed the crossover, eq, and input/output level and gain settings in the harman software and they all appear correct. I checked the manual input attenuators on the back of the amp and they are all set to the 0db position (maximum input level).

I'm now going to swap the left and right speaker wiring on the amp to see if the problem switches speakers.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions about a bad amp module... Any other suggestions of what I should try next?

I also have what I presume is a ground loop issue that I've greatly improved- but not eliminated. I've turned off all dimmer switches, disconnected all inputs, tried swapping outlets outlets, using a single power strip for the AVR and amp, etc., and just cant't get the buzzing noise to go away completely unless I disconnect the AVR. The buzzing also gets much quieter when there is no signal coming from the AVR. FWIW, using the same outputs/cables I have no buzzing issue when using the 708p.

Ah.... the joys of incorporating new equipment into a system.
I had that problem as you are describing and that was due to sensitivity switches behind the amp. Try and adjusting them all one click lower as a test and see what happens. On my Crown amps the sensitivity switches are really bad and the way I fixed it was to adjust and re-adjust back to what they previously were - then it worked. Seems like that even though they were in the exact same position at the beginning (from the looks of it) they needed a push to be in the same setting.
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post #4379 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 10:32 AM
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Are all the EQ's in the amps off/bypassed? Hook up to audio architect and check everything out.
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post #4380 of 4620 Old 01-06-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
I had that problem as you are describing and that was due to sensitivity switches behind the amp. Try and adjusting them all one click lower as a test and see what happens. On my Crown amps the sensitivity switches are really bad and the way I fixed it was to adjust and re-adjust back to what they previously were - then it worked. Seems like that even though they were in the exact same position at the beginning (from the looks of it) they needed a push to be in the same setting.
Thanks, Jonas... I'll try that momentarily.
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