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post #4381 of 4686 Old 01-06-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
Are all the EQ's in the amps off/bypassed? Hook up to audio architect and check everything out.
Great question... the only active EQ is for the JBL speaker tuning. I verified every setting for each channel, and they're identical left and right.
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post #4382 of 4686 Old 01-06-2019, 11:30 AM
 
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I've noticed that vocals and other sounds are slightly offset to the left, . . .
Besides switching the speaker leads as you mentioned, switching the L M2 for the R will verify the speaker itself isn't the culprit.

Hearing itself often has a dB or two bias to one side, by the way. That's why they invented the balance control.
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post #4383 of 4686 Old 01-06-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Besides switching the speaker leads as you mentioned, switching the L M2 for the R will verify the speaker itself isn't the culprit.

Hearing itself often has a dB or two bias to one side, by the way. That's why they invented the balance control.
Indeed, I'll try switching the input leads to the amp to verify it's not an issue with the AVR output, and I'll switch the wiring outputs from the amp to the speakers to confirm it's not the speaker.

Update-

Adjusting the attenuation settings has corrected for the imbalance- and it sounds much better. But turning them down by a click or two and returning them to zero didn't resolve anything, so I'm running all of the 'normal' outputs at -9.5 db, and the tweeter in question at -6 db which has corrected the levels to within 1/4 db. Given the very precise correction of the frequency response beginning at the crossover point, I would say it has to be either the amp or the speaker, and not the AVR. But I'm checking the AVR anyway.

Re: L/R hearing

Yes, Sir... I know I definitely don't hear the same out of both ears... but I also didn't have this issue until I swapped gear. And Omnimic shouldn't have my hearing limitations.
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post #4384 of 4686 Old 01-06-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bugal1998 View Post
Indeed, I'll try switching the input leads to the amp to verify it's not an issue with the AVR output, and I'll switch the wiring outputs from the amp to the speakers to confirm it's not the speaker.

Update-

Adjusting the attenuation settings has corrected for the imbalance- and it sounds much better. But turning them down by a click or two and returning them to zero didn't resolve anything, so I'm running all of the 'normal' outputs at -9.5 db, and the tweeter in question at -6 db which has corrected the levels to within 1/4 db. Given the very precise correction of the frequency response beginning at the crossover point, I would say it has to be either the amp or the speaker, and not the AVR. But I'm checking the AVR anyway.

Re: L/R hearing

Yes, Sir... I know I definitely don't hear the same out of both ears... but I also didn't have this issue until I swapped gear. And Omnimic shouldn't have my hearing limitations.
Swapped AVR channels and- as expected- there was no difference. Swapped speaker leads from the amp, and again no difference, meaning the amp is the issue. If it's the right speaker with an issue, then swapping amp outputs (with the attenuation set at -9.5 and -6 db ) should have made the left speaker tweeter ~3.5db hot, and it didn't.

I'm running the amp in bridged mode, which the previous owner wasn't doing, so is it possible there is a bad/weak amp channel that wasn't in use before that's causing the bridged output to be lower? I have no idea if that's even a possible scenario... The lower output is from what I believe was a previously unused amp channel.

As mentioned before, there is some amp noise coming from the speakers anytime the amp is on; a quiet low level hiss/buzz to where the amp sitting 12' away is louder than the hiss. But anytime there is a signal coming from the AVR there is a noticeably louder buzz that is louder than the amp fan. Both the quieter hiss/buzz and louder buzz comes from both speakers equally. I assume this is still a ground loop issue.
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post #4385 of 4686 Old 01-06-2019, 07:16 PM
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I know that there are several owners of m2's that used to own Seaton cat 12's. Can anyone who has owned the seatons comment on your impressions how the m2's sound with gun shots in comparison?

I went from Cat 12C's to the M2's. The M2's do everything better. Except SPL. With that, they're basically tied. Gun shots on both are very snappy sounding. Same with snare drums. The M2's just sound a bit more natural with that snap, as well as bigger.
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post #4386 of 4686 Old 01-07-2019, 09:55 AM
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Hi all. What are the optimal surround speaker choices for sides/rears, and heights? I realize that m2's all around would be best, but my budget doesnt allow for that

For sale: 4 Mackie c300z speakers, Sony HW40es projector, Tag Mclaren av32r preamplifier
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post #4387 of 4686 Old 01-07-2019, 10:18 AM
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Hi all. What are the optimal surround speaker choices for sides/rears, and heights? I realize that m2's all around would be best, but my budget doesnt allow for that
Do you have any requirement for speaker depth?

On top of my head, the obvious choices:
- JBL Synthesis SCL-3 and SCL-4 (Require large budget)
- JBL LSR705/708
- JBL S4Ai (Would be my preferred choice - they are discontinued though)

Alternative choices:
- Revel in-walls
- JBL Pro CBT50LA (JBL Synthesis used them at a CEDIA demo with M2s)
- JBL Pro 8320 (Cheap, pro cinema)
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post #4388 of 4686 Old 01-07-2019, 10:24 AM
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JBL SCS-8 is also a viable option. They come with built in mounts with 120x120 dispersion pattern. The 705/8 is going to be the best match.

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post #4389 of 4686 Old 01-07-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post

On top of my head, the obvious choices:
- JBL Synthesis SCL-3 and SCL-4 (Require large budget)
- JBL LSR705/708
- JBL S4Ai (Would be my preferred choice - they are discontinued though)

Alternative choices:
- Revel in-walls
- JBL Pro CBT50LA (JBL Synthesis used them at a CEDIA demo with M2s)
- JBL Pro 8320 (Cheap, pro cinema)
The Synthesis® S4Ai is what I'm using. Why?
  1. I already had six of them. Four came with my Synthesis One Array sytem, and two were purchased used.
  2. Discussing options with two folks at Harman Luxury Audio, the S4Ai was introduced early in the discussion as an "in hand" Synthesis® product that I'd never recover costs on if I didn't use them.
  3. Using the proposed size of my room (16x11.5x9) and the intended acoustical treatments (a few absorbers and some hemispherical diffusers), the S4Ai seemed like a solid choice.
  4. The options to go monopole, bipole, and dipole gave a lot of choice for room placement and tuning. (Yes, dipole is not really a good choice.)
  5. The S4Ai would function well as a height speaker, though it required fabrication of a satisfactory, aimable bracket.
  6. The acquistion of a new Lexicon unit gave me the freedom to avoid the expense of upgrading my SDEC4000 and old SDP-5 without needing to spend a small fortune on a new JBL unit. Yes, I'm letting Dirac and the M2 tunings do all the heavy lifting (no more $1500 plus expenses for a Synthesis® calibrator).

IF I had a bigger room and a fatter wallet maybe I'd load up on SCL-3 or SCL-4, plus an SDP-75, plus an SDEC 4500/5500 (or newer), but I might be dead before I paid it all off, and I don't want the rest of our quality of life to suffer for something that only gets about 10-15% of our time.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #4390 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 04:17 AM
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I am planning on changing my screen during the room renovation to a Seymour XD. The frame they recommend is 3 inches wide. Any issues with a frame this wide in front of the LF driver on the M2? My assumption is no, but I figured I would ask.




**EDIT** - I PM'd Dr. Toole and he told me not to worry about the screen frame.

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post #4391 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 05:10 AM
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Looks like a new monitor is coming to the market. I wonder if it will play nice with the 7 series and M2. Kind of looks like they used a coax driver. I could be wrong.
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post #4392 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 09:45 AM
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Looks like a new monitor is coming to the market. I wonder if it will play nice with the 7 series and M2. Kind of looks like they used a coax driver. I could be wrong.
Any idea when this will be announced?

I guess this is different than the 3-way bookshelf they introduced yesterday?
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post #4393 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 09:47 AM
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I am planning on changing my screen during the room renovation to a Seymour XD. The frame they recommend is 3 inches wide. Any issues with a frame this wide in front of the LF driver on the M2? My assumption is no, but I figured I would ask.
Great choice in screens. I upgraded from a Falcon to the XD a little over a year ago. Much better than the Falcon in several ways.
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post #4394 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
Looks like a new monitor is coming to the market. I wonder if it will play nice with the 7 series and M2. Kind of looks like they used a coax driver. I could be wrong.
Any idea when this will be announced?

I guess this is different than the 3-way bookshelf they introduced yesterday?
Nevermind, it's a very small monitor designed for a desk top. Nothing we'd be interested in

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...ast/one-series
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post #4395 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 10:10 AM
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Great choice in screens. I upgraded from a Falcon to the XD a little over a year ago. Much better than the Falcon in several ways.
I have an Elite, so I think it will be a marked improvement. The Elite has the tension bar running right down the center, which is beyond stupid for an A/T screen. Nothing like a bar splitting your waveguide.

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post #4396 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 10:50 AM
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Nevermind, it's a very small monitor designed for a desk top. Nothing we'd be interested in

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...ast/one-series
Weird they went with a coaxial driver when the cabinet they are using could definitely accommodate seperate drivers. Heck, for their size, they might as well have just put the headphone jacks and unbalanced inputs on the 305s. Also:
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This new coaxial driver has been specially contoured using the same research that led to the revolutionary waveguide found in M2, 7-Series, and 3-Series monitors,
Ok, they are really stretching on the trickle down on this one.
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post #4397 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 11:25 AM
 
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I have an Elite, so I think it will be a marked improvement. The Elite has the tension bar running right down the center, which is beyond stupid for an A/T screen. Nothing like a bar splitting your waveguide.
How thick is it?
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post #4398 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 11:44 AM
 
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Weird they went with a coaxial driver when the cabinet they are using could definitely accommodate seperate drivers..
For very close near-field work there comes a point where one becomes perceptually aware the the highs are coming from one direction and the lows are coming from a point beneath it. From my perspective coaxial designs make no sense in floor standing speakers where one sits at a greater distance and what we hear is actually a combination of direct wave and room reflected sound, but for desktop use where we may be even less than two feet away (and the direct wave is almost all that matters) I can see coaxial designs making more sense for some users.
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post #4399 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 11:44 AM
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I have an Elite, so I think it will be a marked improvement. The Elite has the tension bar running right down the center, which is beyond stupid for an A/T screen. Nothing like a bar splitting your waveguide.
It's just me, but I'd position the woofer above the screen border if at all possible...

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post #4400 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 02:23 PM
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It's just me, but I'd position the woofer above the screen border if at all possible...
The screen would be like 12" off the ground bro. I need it high enough so my toes don't interfere when I am laid back.

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post #4401 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 03:02 PM
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The screen would be like 12" off the ground bro. I need it high enough so my toes don't interfere when I am laid back.
Can you turn the M2's upside down?
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post #4402 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 03:58 PM
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Can you turn the M2's upside down?
Dr. Toole said that unless the bar is 1.4 wide there is no need to worry. But yest, I could flip the M2 upside down but then the waveguide will be below ear level. I never noticed an issue with the 4722, so I will just "go with it".

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post #4403 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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Can you turn the M2's upside down?
Did you ever get a center M2 into your room?
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post #4404 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 04:20 PM
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I have an Elite, so I think it will be a marked improvement. The Elite has the tension bar running right down the center, which is beyond stupid for an A/T screen. Nothing like a bar splitting your waveguide.
OH...for some reason I thought you were a Falcon owner. My bad.
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post #4405 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 05:06 PM
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Dr. Toole said that unless the bar is 1.4 wide there is no need to worry. But yest, I could flip the M2 upside down but then the waveguide will be below ear level. I never noticed an issue with the 4722, so I will just "go with it".
Not quite. What I said was that a frame that is small compared to the wavelength of the highest frequency (800 Hz, 1.4 ft) is not likely to cause a problem. Smaller is obviously better. To go further, it probably will change things slightly in the near field, but less likely in the far field listening position. If you want to satisfy yourself, just hold a bar of similar size at the same distance in front of the speaker and see if you can hear/measure anything bad. I don't know this screen, but if the bar (a compression bar, I presume) is 3 inches or more wide I would seriously consider a DIY replacement with a small cross-section aluminum tube or bar.
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post #4406 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 05:19 PM
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Not quite. What I said was that a frame that is small compared to the wavelength of the highest frequency (800 Hz, 1.4 ft) is not likely to cause a problem. Smaller is obviously better. To go further, it probably will change things slightly in the near field, but less likely in the far field listening position. If you want to satisfy yourself, just hold a bar of similar size at the same distance in front of the speaker and see if you can hear/measure anything bad. I don't know this screen, but if the bar (a compression bar, I presume) is 3 inches or more wide I would seriously consider a DIY replacement with a small cross-section aluminum tube or bar.
Sorry, I was poorly summarizing. I am not a DIY guy when it comes to screens. My current screen frame is 2" wide and I didn't detect anything with my old 4722's. I will just have to deal with whatever issues are presented. Hopefully, they are minor if anything at all. Thanks again for the help. Gooddoc can you give me the height from the bottom of the speaker to the bottom of the cone please? Mine are still in the box.


***update*** - I just checked their website and they offer a new frame which is on 1.5" wide. The lady I spoke with on the phone didn't mention this one. I will call tomorrow to find out more details, but I think I will be good to go now.

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post #4407 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 05:59 PM
 
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The distance to the driver also comes into play. Some speakers in the past purposefully used an "acoustic lens" [maybe better called a "diffraction device"] said to alter the dispersion of the tweeter.


I think there was also a DIY hobbyist fad at one point to mount a dime right in front of the tweeter.
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post #4408 of 4686 Old 01-08-2019, 07:14 PM
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Sorry, I was poorly summarizing. I am not a DIY guy when it comes to screens. My current screen frame is 2" wide and I didn't detect anything with my old 4722's. I will just have to deal with whatever issues are presented. Hopefully, they are minor if anything at all. Thanks again for the help. Gooddoc can you give me the height from the bottom of the speaker to the bottom of the cone please? Mine are still in the box.


***update*** - I just checked their website and they offer a new frame which is on 1.5" wide. The lady I spoke with on the phone didn't mention this one. I will call tomorrow to find out more details, but I think I will be good to go now.
~18"
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post #4409 of 4686 Old 01-09-2019, 06:07 AM
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Did you ever get a center M2 into your room?
No. I don't want to give up the flat panel display. But LG just announced a rollable OLED that will solve my problem I think. Hopefully price is not stratospheric. So maybe, just maybe, a M2 center is in the near future for me.
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post #4410 of 4686 Old 01-09-2019, 12:16 PM
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No. I don't want to give up the flat panel display. But LG just announced a rollable OLED that will solve my problem I think. Hopefully price is not stratospheric. So maybe, just maybe, a M2 center is in the near future for me.
Hopefully one is in my future as well. Probably not a near as you, I have an entire theater room to build from scratch. Moved into the new House in November (finally). This past Friday, the hot water heater went and flooded the basement and of course, it was entombed in a small room that made it a huge job to get out and even harder to get the new one in. Already dealing with these set backs
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