JBL 'M2' Master Reference Monitor - Page 154 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:19 AM
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Just in case this hasn't already been discussed, Chapter 9 of Dr. Toole's book shows anechoic measurements of an Infinity Primus 160 measured both with and without a baffle wall in which it was flush-mounted. The effect on the bass response of having a baffle wall can be clearly seen.

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Old 06-09-2019, 10:35 AM
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Does the M2 have presets (tuning files) for different kinds of placement?
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TimVG View Post
Does the M2 have presets (tuning files) for different kinds of placement?
Yes. Not for download from the website, but they have them. I was offered a modified tuning when I was thinking of laying an M2 horizontally for my center channel.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:55 AM
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Does the M2 have presets (tuning files) for different kinds of placement?
Yes. I’m using the JBL SDP-75 SSP and they are included there.

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Old 06-09-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Baffle placement has a downside too: it locks the user from being able to play around with differing amounts of toe-in, height, and spacing after the fact. These can greatly alter the sound stage and image placement.
People who are doing baffle placement usually are acoustic engineers or just know physics good enough to read some books and do the thing right (or just hire someone to do it).
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:23 PM
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People who are doing baffle placement usually are acoustic engineers or just know physics good enough to read some books and do the thing right (or just hire someone to do it).
I'm of the mind exact speaker placement including toe-in and rake-back angle needs to be adjustable:

A. in situ.
B. differently based on varying audience size [Namely width. Do you want the best sound for three people in a row vs. a singular listener, for example. They aren't the same.]
C. imaging placement differing needs based on time/intensity trading, again differing for an audience of 2, 3, or 1, and possibly more than one row of seats
D. differing preference per song. Optimal placement for imaging, vs. spaciousness, vs. timbre may all be different and I like the ability to change these on the fly.

I've been trained by Sonus Faber and Sumiko technicians in the science/art of exact speaker placement they call "Masters Training". Blueprints of a room can give a good, rough approximation for best speaker placement but the final tweaking must be done by ear.

Be sure to listen to the test in the link with headphones, BTW: https://auditoryneuroscience.com/spa...ensity-trading

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Old 06-15-2019, 10:18 AM
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How many in here have heard both the M2s and Procella speakers? The Procella P815 is roughly the same price class.

How would you describe the differences?

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Old 06-16-2019, 10:18 AM
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I have never had speakers that appear to be off all the time just sitting there staring at me. However, I am really enjoying the M2 behind the screen that magically sounds like its playing all the time while remaining completely silent The imaging on these are unreal at times.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have never had speakers that appear to be off all the time just sitting there staring at me. However, I am really enjoying the M2 behind the screen that magically sounds like its playing all the time while remaining completely silent The imaging on these are unreal at times.
You just can't much better really. I'll have mine for the long haul and I typically like to change out my speakers every few years. M2 is end game for me.. unless JBL releases an M3.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have never had speakers that appear to be off all the time just sitting there staring at me. However, I am really enjoying the M2 behind the screen that magically sounds like its playing all the time while remaining completely silent The imaging on these are unreal at times.
Not sure I fully understand that whole post , but I get the end of it. Glad you're enjoying them. They are remarkably consistent, so you'll likely think the same things about them 5 years from now too.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
How many in here have heard both the M2s and Procella speakers? The Procella P815 is roughly the same price class.

How would you describe the differences?
Are there any measurements out there? I looked but found nothing.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Not sure I fully understand that whole post , but I get the end of it. Glad you're enjoying them. They are remarkably consistent, so you'll likely think the same things about them 5 years from now too.
Everything seems to come from the center channel. The L/R are outside the screen and sound is just not detectable from them. I had my kids listen and asked them which speakers were playing. Across the board, they said, "The one behind the screen; when are you going to turn the others on?" It made perfect sense when I typed it but I also had a few Pecan Porters this afternoon

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Old 06-16-2019, 06:26 PM
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Not sure I fully understand that whole post , but I get the end of it. Glad you're enjoying them. They are remarkably consistent, so you'll likely think the same things about them 5 years from now too.
I'm guessing he's sayig they don't draw attention to themselves is how I took that.

Ageeed. Very consistent and enjoy them every time I listen.

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Old 06-16-2019, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Everything seems to come from the center channel. The L/R are outside the screen and sound is just not detectable from them. I had my kids listen and asked them which speakers were playing. Across the board, they said, "The one behind the screen; when are you going to turn the others on?" It made perfect sense when I typed it but I also had a few Pecan Porters this afternoon
Yep. I ran a phantom center for a while and it's crazy how good it was. Any two speakers can float a phantom image, but there is a realism to the way the M2's do it that is a step above any speaker I've owned(or heard).
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:54 PM
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Are there any measurements out there? I looked but found nothing.
Have a look at the following link: https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-co...ama-Charts.pdf

While the speaker names have been blanked-out, the text is still searchable. Open that link and search for "JBL 708P" to see the 708P's measurements and "Procella P28" to see the P28's measurements. While this Procella speaker is not the one Jonas was referring to, it might give some idea regarding how Procella speakers measure.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Have a look at the following link: https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-co...ama-Charts.pdf

While the speaker names have been blanked-out, the text is still searchable. Open that link and search for "JBL 708P" to see the 708P's measurements and "Procella P28" to see the P28's measurements. While this Procella speaker is not the one Jonas was referring to, it might give some idea regarding how Procella speakers measure.
Interesting! (And nice find that the font has just been made white. Hope that they have other processes for actual confidential data :-)).

On-axis and listening windows seems to be more alike than different. Early reflections will be a lot different though. Less reflections with Procella.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Yep. I ran a phantom center for a while and it's crazy how good it was. Any two speakers can float a phantom image, but there is a realism to the way the M2's do it that is a step above any speaker I've owned(or heard).
Agreed, the 4722 imaged very well in my room, but the M2 does it better. Its uncanny how good it is.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:09 PM
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Have a look at the following link
Aren't spinorama sized anechoic test chambers, like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Did they build their own or is this data [you link to] borrowed from the same test facilities used by Harman/JBL etc.?

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Old 06-17-2019, 01:39 PM
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On-axis and listening windows seems to be more alike than different. Early reflections will be a lot different though. Less reflections with Procella.
Even the on-axis/listening window measurements are significantly different enough that I would not expect them to sound very alike. The JBL on and off axis curves are more highly correlated, smoother, and there's a better room power response.

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While this Procella speaker is not the one Jonas was referring to, it might give some idea regarding how Procella speakers measure.
The two Procella designs are very different. Not so sure we can extrapolate. Too bad they don't release measurements.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:07 PM
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Hmmm, same compression driver and eliptical WG between the two procellas mentioned. Might not be too much difference above 1.6khz XO.

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Old 06-17-2019, 02:24 PM
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Interesting! (And nice find that the font has just been made white. Hope that they have other processes for actual confidential data :-)).



On-axis and listening windows seems to be more alike than different. Early reflections will be a lot different though. Less reflections with Procella.

Agreed, great catch!

Off axis differences are as expected, given the Procella’s larger exit CD and likely narrower-angle waveguide.

Pretty much nothing (including M2) maintains constant directivity as high in frequency as the 7-series. The difference is the tiny waveguide exit. Is that a good trait? Dunno. Seems like we’re well used to the collapsing HF pattern of a 1” dome or 1” exit CD.

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Old 06-17-2019, 03:55 PM
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The Procella measurements do not look so great.

This is something I put together for a friend recently for ~1k in parts. 1.5" CD exit like the M2, so the HF narrows a bit above 16khz, otherwise excellent all around.



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Old 06-17-2019, 08:40 PM
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The Procella measurements do not look so great.

This is something I put together for a friend recently for ~1k in parts. 1.5" CD exit like the M2, so the HF narrows a bit above 16khz, otherwise excellent all around.
Looks great man. A bit of a rising response, even off axis. Is that the horn doing that, or EQ?
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:42 PM
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Hmmm, same compression driver and eliptical WG between the two procellas mentioned. Might not be too much difference above 1.6khz XO.
Actually, just looking at the pics I thought one was a two way, and the other a three way, but I didn't actually check that.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:44 PM
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The Procella measurements do not look so great.

This is something I put together for a friend recently for ~1k in parts. 1.5" CD exit like the M2, so the HF narrows a bit above 16khz, otherwise excellent all around.



That looks like ST's speaker. He's tickled pink.. great job for sure..
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:30 PM
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Looks great man. A bit of a rising response, even off axis. Is that the horn doing that, or EQ?
It's actually flatter, I just saved that image without the proper windowing

Here you can see 0-20 degres with 1/20 fdw and the average below

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Old 06-18-2019, 05:40 PM
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This is something I put together for a friend recently for ~1k in parts. 1.5" CD exit like the M2, so the HF narrows a bit above 16khz, otherwise excellent all around.
Sweet. I need that for a center channel...except with the 12" 2262H...not enough room for the 15.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:40 AM
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I asked this in the generic JBL foRum but thought I’d try here as well. I’m ordering 3 M2’s for LCR and My rep is pushing the crown CDi amps. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Crown CDi amps? I was asking my rep for a price quote on the DCi 2/1250 and he said His contact at JBL recommended the CDi amp? I am looking at the CDi 2/1200 and DCi 2/1250. I have an SDP-75 so no need for DSP
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:56 AM
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I asked this in the generic JBL foRum but thought I’d try here as well. I’m ordering 3 M2’s for LCR and My rep is pushing the crown CDi amps. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Crown CDi amps? I was asking my rep for a price quote on the DCi 2/1250 and he said His contact at JBL recommended the CDi amp? I am looking at the CDi 2/1200 and DCi 2/1250. I have an SDP-75 so no need for DSP
I asked the same question to Crown earlier. DCi is running at 48khz internally and CDi 96khz but DSP and AD/DA is better on the DCi.
I assume you are going for the non-DSP versions? Crown did not mention any differences in the amplifier topology but looking at specs the DCi seems better. 104 S/N vs. 108 S/N for example.

If I had to choose between the two, I would go for the DCi. It's the proven solution and CDi is not.

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Old 06-19-2019, 03:07 AM
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I asked this in the generic JBL foRum but thought I’d try here as well. I’m ordering 3 M2’s for LCR and My rep is pushing the crown CDi amps. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Crown CDi amps? I was asking my rep for a price quote on the DCi 2/1250 and he said His contact at JBL recommended the CDi amp? I am looking at the CDi 2/1200 and DCi 2/1250. I have an SDP-75 so no need for DSP
Personally, I would stick with the DCI amps. They work well together. I've never heard anyone pairing the M2 with the CDI.
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