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post #4711 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 01:35 AM
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Just wondering how in general does everyone calibrate/tune their M2's for movies/HT ? besides loading the correct files in the amp. Is there some sort of a standard?

How would Audyssey xt32 work in general? would it be an advantage? i am assuming they will still be set to small and 80hz in the AVR as most speakers for HT.

would be nice to hear different opinions on this.

Thanks

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post #4712 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Just wondering how in general does everyone calibrate/tune their M2's for movies/HT ? besides loading the correct files in the amp. Is there some sort of a standard?

How would Audyssey xt32 work in general? would it be an advantage? i am assuming they will still be set to small and 80hz in the AVR as most speakers for HT.

would be nice to hear different opinions on this.

Thanks
I would not use Audyssey on the M2s as I personally believe it does a very bad job. I had XT32 and the Pro Installer kit at some point and it never sounded good.

My current approach is 100% manual. Measuring with 6 microphones, analyzing data and setting filters in the DSP. This allows me to have 100% control of what is being done and I can verify each change with real world measurements instead of relying on calculated values by some automatic system. The learning curve is steep and the price for the measurement gear is high - so you need to spend a lot of time studying or pay someone to do it I know that many of the pro installers does it like this.

If you want an automatic solution, I would recommend that you do one of the two options below:
1. Get a JBL SDEC unit and have it calibrated by the dealer (Expensive, system will be locked)
2. Get a processor with Dirac and use that

EDIT:
Regarding the 80hz question this depends on a lot of different things. 80hz is usually a good starting point but depending on how the speakers and subs behave in the listening position it can be beneficial to raise or lower it. Need measurements to be able to know this.
My experience with SVS subs is, that they do the low frequencies well but do not excel at 60-80hz - definately not as good as the M2s. So if I were you I would start with 60hz crossover and see how that sounds.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.

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post #4713 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 08:54 AM
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I would not use Audyssey on the M2s as I personally believe it does a very bad job. I had XT32 and the Pro Installer kit at some point and it never sounded good.

My current approach is 100% manual. Measuring with 6 microphones, analyzing data and setting filters in the DSP. This allows me to have 100% control of what is being done and I can verify each change with real world measurements instead of relying on calculated values by some automatic system. The learning curve is steep and the price for the measurement gear is high - so you need to spend a lot of time studying or pay someone to do it I know that many of the pro installers does it like this.

If you want an automatic solution, I would recommend that you do one of the two options below:
1. Get a JBL SDEC unit and have it calibrated by the dealer (Expensive, system will be locked)
2. Get a processor with Dirac and use that

EDIT:
Regarding the 80hz question this depends on a lot of different things. 80hz is usually a good starting point but depending on how the speakers and subs behave in the listening position it can be beneficial to raise or lower it. Need measurements to be able to know this.
My experience with SVS subs is, that they do the low frequencies well but do not excel at 60-80hz - definately not as good as the M2s. So if I were you I would start with 60hz crossover and see how that sounds.
ARC is an option too. The new ARC Genesis is a huge step up and IMO superior to Dirac in regards to SQ. But it is still not as flexible as Dirac with curve manipulation.

I use MSO on my subs and then run ARC over it. Best my system has sounded.
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post #4714 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 10:29 AM
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^^^

Is ARC Genesis in the Anthem AVM60?

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post #4715 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 10:59 AM
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^^^

Is ARC Genesis in the Anthem AVM60?
Yes
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post #4716 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 01:08 PM
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Thing is i just got my Marantz and i don't think its going to go anywhere soon, have to keep it for a few years.

So think maybe best option would be is the do Audyssey through the app which i just bought (MultEQ) just till 500hz?

Any other suggestions or options would be appreciated.

Thanks

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post #4717 of 4910 Old 07-28-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Thing is i just got my Marantz and i don't think its going to go anywhere soon, have to keep it for a few years.

So think maybe best option would be is the do Audyssey through the app which i just bought (MultEQ) just till 500hz?

Any other suggestions or options would be appreciated. Thanks

Get REW and the UMIK-1. https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
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post #4718 of 4910 Old 07-31-2019, 04:15 PM
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A few M2/Crown DCI/N questions:

1-If i have a wireless wifi router and i connect my laptop to it (using wifi) then connect my two DCI/N amps using an ethernet cable to the router also will i be able to see both amps the same time on Audio Architect on my laptop?
2-Since i am using XLR cables for all my speakers for a long time. will something like a XLR to Phoenix cable work? i just want things to took neat without cutting any speaker cables and figuring out where everything is going to go. (Hosa Phx-206Fbulk 6-Inch Adaptor PHX3F to XLR3F)
3.Any idea if #2 's cable would work on the Crown CT8150? which i am going to use for my atmos ceiling speakers.
4.My 3x M2's will all be behind an AT screen. do i have to raise the high frequency a little? i know some people like to lower high frequencies in their M2's (preference) so could this just maybe be ideal for most? the below is the effect of the screen on speakers from Screen innovations. most likely i will run MultEQ to 200hz or 300hz and let Audyssey not touch the rest.

''Typical impact on frequency response is well within the -3db range with a peak attenuation of -6db at 20kHz. This difference is easily corrected by most modern receivers with room correction.''

5-Any simple adapters/cables i could use that will let me turn on and off my three amps with my processor? don't want to walk to it every-time i want to turn it on or off.

Processor Marantz AV8805 Amps Crown DCI/N x2 CT8150 x1 Speakers JBL PRO M2 x3 708i x4 328c x6 Subs SVS SB16 x2 Screen SI 160 Slate AT 1.2 Projector Epson TW5600 Media Steiger Dynamics Ikon Cables&Chords Wireworld & Belden

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post #4719 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 06:36 AM
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Amplifiers

I recently bought three Crown Macrotech 5000i amplifiers to use with the M2s as I wanted to try the amps which were spec'ed with the M2s. I was using Crown CTs1200 amps before which is "normal" Class AB amps. I'm using a BSS Soundweb so iTech DSP not needed. MacroTech amps are the exact same amplifier as the iTech but without DSP.

I have not done any scientific test, but I do think that there is a difference in the sound. It is so difficult to describe sound, but came across a review of the Mark Levinson No53 which actually describes exactly what I believe I am hearing:

Women's voices were problematic through the No.53. For instance, "Fields of Gold," from an out-of-print edition of Eva Cassidy's Songbird (LP, S&P 501), features a pristine recording of her stunningly pure voice, bathed in reverberation. The voice should be pinpoint sharp in the best sense of that phrase, compact in size, and well separated from the engulfing reverb. That reverb should be a cushion, not a trap. Through the No.53s Cassidy's voice was pinpoint sharp but the reverb, instead of being airy and ethereal, sounded like a hard haze that obscured detail at low levels and became fatiguing at higher ones. Reverb should be experienced as an event separate from the main one, but with every record or file I played through the No.53s, instruments, voices, and reverb seemed to blend into a single event.

Source: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ower-amplifier

Not sure the M2-thread is the correct place, but since this is my experience with M2 and amps, I hope it is ok. Any experiences with M2 and different amps or experience with the Harman Class-I amps?

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
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post #4720 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 10:32 AM
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I recently bought three Crown Macrotech 5000i amplifiers to use with the M2s as I wanted to try the amps which were spec'ed with the M2s. I was using Crown CTs1200 amps before which is "normal" Class AB amps. I'm using a BSS Soundweb so iTech DSP not needed. MacroTech amps are the exact same amplifier as the iTech but without DSP.

I have not done any scientific test, but I do think that there is a difference in the sound. It is so difficult to describe sound, but came across a review of the Mark Levinson No53 which actually describes exactly what I believe I am hearing:

Women's voices were problematic through the No.53. For instance, "Fields of Gold," from an out-of-print edition of Eva Cassidy's Songbird (LP, S&P 501), features a pristine recording of her stunningly pure voice, bathed in reverberation. The voice should be pinpoint sharp in the best sense of that phrase, compact in size, and well separated from the engulfing reverb. That reverb should be a cushion, not a trap. Through the No.53s Cassidy's voice was pinpoint sharp but the reverb, instead of being airy and ethereal, sounded like a hard haze that obscured detail at low levels and became fatiguing at higher ones. Reverb should be experienced as an event separate from the main one, but with every record or file I played through the No.53s, instruments, voices, and reverb seemed to blend into a single event.

Source: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...ower-amplifier

Not sure the M2-thread is the correct place, but since this is my experience with M2 and amps, I hope it is ok. Any experiences with M2 and different amps or experience with the Harman Class-I amps?

I don't have an answer to your question but I do have an issue with the reviewer's comment about reverb. I was a professional recording engineer for 34 years. I worked in one of the finest concert halls in the country (The Great Hall in the Krannert Center at the University of Illinois) where I recorded The Chicago Symphony. The statement "Reverb should be experienced as an event separate from the main one, but with every record or file I played through the No.53s, instruments, voices, and reverb seemed to blend into a single event." is exactly the opposite of what I found to be true.

In my experience, using the best microphones and mic preamps with purist recording techniques, monitoring the direct feed for the recordings, reverb is blended into a single event with the direct sound. Perhaps on some studio recordings made using artificial reverb, one might hear the reverb as a separate event, but in my opinion, that is something that might have been intended by the engineer, producer or artist. It certainly doesn't occur like that in the real world. You know this if you have ever heard an orchestra perform live in a good concert hall.

There is a mixing technique that uses delay to the reverb. In that case, one might hear the reverb slightly separate from the dry sound, especially if the delay is more than 30 ms. Lots of techniques are used as effects when mixing pop/rock music.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 08-02-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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post #4721 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
A few M2/Crown DCI/N questions:

1-If i have a wireless wifi router and i connect my laptop to it (using wifi) then connect my two DCI/N amps using an ethernet cable to the router also will i be able to see both amps the same time on Audio Architect on my laptop?

Yes

2-Since i am using XLR cables for all my speakers for a long time. will something like a XLR to Phoenix cable work? i just want things to took neat without cutting any speaker cables and figuring out where everything is going to go. (Hosa Phx-206Fbulk 6-Inch Adaptor PHX3F to XLR3F)

Yes, as long as the pheonix connector the same. Some are different

4.My 3x M2's will all be behind an AT screen. do i have to raise the high frequency a little? i know some people like to lower high frequencies in their M2's (preference) so could this just maybe be ideal for most? the below is the effect of the screen on speakers from Screen innovations. most likely i will run MultEQ to 200hz or 300hz and let Audyssey not touch the rest.

''Typical impact on frequency response is well within the -3db range with a peak attenuation of -6db at 20kHz. This difference is easily corrected by most modern receivers with room correction.''

Let your ears decide. It is simple to make a correction filter in the amp and simply switch it on and off.

5-Any simple adapters/cables i could use that will let me turn on and off my three amps with my processor? don't want to walk to it every-time i want to turn it on or off.

I use a 12v relay that uses my prepro trigger. There may be some commercial options
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post #4722 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 11:28 AM
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If you use a relay for the trigger circuit, be sure to get a solid-state relay or one that draws very low (~10 mA) current. Relays can draw a lot of current when turning on and send a HV spike when turning off. I have seen them blow trigger circuits (queue the "I've been doing it that way for years and never had a problem" crowd -- it only takes once). Three are plenty of relays with a little driver circuit to isolate the coil and those should work fine. Another option is a smart power strip that has a trigger input or senses when the "master" outlet is drawing power (e.g. your processor or whatever) and turns on the "slave" outlets to your power amps.

HTH - Don
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post #4723 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 02:33 PM
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--
Thanks Doc appreciate it! really helpful.

Any advice for a relay? maybe a link or a name that i could look up.

as in my previous setup it was way easier, 3 emotivas connected with an emotiva trigger device then just a cable to my processor.

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post #4724 of 4910 Old 08-02-2019, 05:01 PM
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Thanks Doc appreciate it! really helpful.

Any advice for a relay? maybe a link or a name that i could look up.

as in my previous setup it was way easier, 3 emotivas connected with an emotiva trigger device then just a cable to my processor.
This is the one I used. Been working since 2014, so I would say it's reliable.
https://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-1A-.../dp/B005T73UHE
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158 mA coil current is well above many trigger output circuits. The half-dozen or so AVRs I have sitting around range from 50 mA to 200 mA max current.

Something like this might work: https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...3751-ND/646007

I would drop an email to Digikey and describe the application to see what they say. There are thousands of relays and I did not try to find the best one... You want one that requires perhaps 20 mA or less input current and can handle maybe 0.5 to 1 A output current at 12 V.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50;58375646
Something like this might work: [url
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electric-works/AQG22212/255-3751-ND/646007[/url]
The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.

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158 mA coil current is well above many trigger output circuits. The half-dozen or so AVRs I have sitting around range from 50 mA to 200 mA max current.
Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
A few M2/Crown DCI/N questions:





5-Any simple adapters/cables i could use that will let me turn on and off my three amps with my processor? don't want to walk to it every-time i want to turn it on or off.
I have a couple of these in my theater. They are triggered by my projector, and all components are turned on one by one. Could also be triggered by the processor.

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/...ioner-CN-2400S

(I'm using the EU 230V version but same idea).

Doesnt your Crowns have some kind of auto standby mode which would allow you to not do anything after you turn off the processor? I remember reading something about that. Try and search the manual.

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The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.



Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.
I have the same trigger expansion module by Emotiva. how do i connect the relay to it? sorry but this is all new to me.

Thank u

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The load amperage on this is only 2a. Not nearly sufficient for amplifiers. The one I'm using has 30a load contacts.

Yes, I forgot to mention I use this, https://emotiva.com/products/et-3.

You're correct that the trigger specs are all over the place on prepros, so using an independent trigger device makes it so I don't have to worry about that.
My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
I have the same trigger expansion module by Emotiva. how do i connect the relay to it? sorry but this is all new to me.

Thank u
I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - Don

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post #4730 of 4910 Old 08-03-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)



I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - Don
No, my bad. You're correct in using the amp remote on/off circuit is the better way. I actually did that with my DCi, but my iTech 5000HD's don't have a remote like that so I used the higher amp relay in an outlet box as you described. I forgot he had the DCi amps.

The DCi relay I used is this one https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...BkzsjVkw%3D%3D since I didn't know if I needed a NO or NC relay for the amp circuit. And I can't remember now what it was. But that one covered it .

My amps are all remote from my prepro, so using one of the sensing power strips was not an option. But if they're all together, that's probably the way to go IMO.
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I have a couple of these in my theater. They are triggered by my projector, and all components are turned on one by one. Could also be triggered by the processor.

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/...ioner-CN-2400S

(I'm using the EU 230V version but same idea).

Doesnt your Crowns have some kind of auto standby mode which would allow you to not do anything after you turn off the processor? I remember reading something about that. Try and search the manual.

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Those Furmans look very nice, but very pricey! Turn-key solution though, so great solution if not wanting to DIY.

I think the Crowns do have a standby mode, but I never tried to use it. Need to dig up the manual .
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post #4732 of 4910 Old 08-03-2019, 02:28 PM
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No, my bad. You're correct in using the amp remote on/off circuit is the better way. I actually did that with my DCi, but my iTech 5000HD's don't have a remote like that so I used the higher amp relay in an outlet box as you described. I forgot he had the DCi amps.

The DCi relay I used is this one https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...BkzsjVkw%3D%3D since I didn't know if I needed a NO or NC relay for the amp circuit. And I can't remember now what it was. But that one covered it .

My amps are all remote from my prepro, so using one of the sensing power strips was not an option. But if they're all together, that's probably the way to go IMO.
No worries!

You could use a much smaller relay for the sensing circuit but yah that was the idea I had in mind. Great minds and all that jazz.

They make all sorts of "smart" power strips now. Some have "master" outlets to turn on the slave outlets, some have 12 V trigger inputs, and now there are a bunch of wireless (bluetooth and wifi-controlled) outlets. For my subs, based on the advice of sanjay or sudarni here (forgot, sorry guys), I bought a couple of X10 modules to control my subwoofers. One takes the 12 V trigger input to send a signal down the line, then a couple of appliance modules over at the subs' outlets control power to the subs. These days there are all sorts of IP-enabled devices, but frankly the little X10 units don't provide access to my home network so I am fine with them.

Onwards - Don
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post #4733 of 4910 Old 08-04-2019, 03:11 PM
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okay so most people who own the M2's and even some pros recommend not to EQ an M2 above Schroeder, and that's understandable since its a flat speaker. okay so same for the 708i's (surrounds)? guessing it's the same as they are nearly identical speakers?

Also how about in my case with 6 ceiling JBL control 328c speakers for atmos? i know it's best to try and hear for myself as every room is different.. but what would a good starting point be, if there was one? also not EQ above Schroeder for them?

Thanks

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post #4734 of 4910 Old 08-04-2019, 07:28 PM
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okay so most people who own the M2's and even some pros recommend not to EQ an M2 above Schroeder, and that's understandable since its a flat speaker. okay so same for the 708i's (surrounds)? guessing it's the same as they are nearly identical speakers?

Also how about in my case with 6 ceiling JBL control 328c speakers for atmos? i know it's best to try and hear for myself as every room is different.. but what would a good starting point be, if there was one? also not EQ above Schroeder for them?

Thanks
For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.

In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.

For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.

IMO
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post #4735 of 4910 Old 08-04-2019, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
My bad, I was thinking of a relay to drive the low-power remote power circuit many professional amplifiers use, not switching the AC input power. There are high-current SS relays for that as well but I did not look for one. Ironically, decades ago I used a simple circuit to drive a similar high-power relay to turn on my subwoofer's amplifier and crossover box, a DIY solution long before every AVR had a trigger output (or before AVRs were even a thing). But, I was thinking he needed something to drive the DCi's remote on/off interface, not switch the AC wall power. The remote interface is described in the amp's manual. IIRC you just need a (low-power) relay to short the terminals.

For switching wall power, the relay needs to be in a shielded and preferably metal grounded box, and good construction practice should be followed to ensure it is safe. Or you can buy one of the various commercial power strips that has a trigger input (SmartStrip, Furman, etc.)

I have one of those as well (not in use at the moment). It comes with cables IIRC, so use one cable to connect your AVR's trigger output to the input of the trigger repeater, then cut one end off another cable to drive the relay. One end will plug into the trigger repeater, and the other (bare wire) end will attach to the relay. Center pin is positive or use a cheap voltmeter to figure out which wires need to go to the + and - coil connections of the relay. If you need cables pick up a few from Monoprice, Parts Express, or similar -- it's a mono 1/8" plug (like a small headphone plug but mono instead of stereo). They probably have some they call "trigger cables".

If switching AC power, the relay should really be in a box with outlets so AC wiring is not exposed.
A good thread on this subject here.

Cheers,
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post #4736 of 4910 Old 08-04-2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.



In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.



For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.



IMO
Why compromise in a theater? EQ the LCR for highest sound quality and EQ the surrounds speakers full range and make sure they timbre match the fronts. This will probably require some broad and gentle filters in the high frequencies.


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post #4737 of 4910 Old 08-04-2019, 11:55 PM
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If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.
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post #4738 of 4910 Old 08-05-2019, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.
By writing the post above, you are assuming that Auto EQ systems always do the right thing?

FYI, I do agree that it can be beneficial to add EQ above Shroeder but it should be done with care. EQ'ing fullrange to match a target curve, which many AutoEQ systems do, is not doing it with care.
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post #4739 of 4910 Old 08-05-2019, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
For HT, I would EQ all of them either full range or to 5kHz or so. Making all of those speakers play nice together for a cohesive bubble is more important than worrying about EQ above Schroeder.

In my experience for HT, the degradation of SQ above Schroeder is often more than offset by better integration of all the speakers in an Atmos type setup. With so many speakers, the ability to finely discriminate SQ is severely degraded.

For stereo it's another story, and even multichannel music may justify dialing back the EQ. In those instances, there are less speakers, more attention to the sound, and more SQ discrimination.

IMO
Would this apply to an auto EQ too? so EQ all speakers in all frequencies.

Also on a side note if M2's would be behind an AT screen that would induce a HF roll-off of about 2-3db starting from about 3-4k till 20k because of it's placement will an auto EQ like Audyssey in general solve that ? as i don't think it would further add the famous Audyssey roll-off on HF.

If i may ask how did you in short calibrate your setup as i think we have similar gear.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Why compromise in a theater? EQ the LCR for highest sound quality and EQ the surrounds speakers full range and make sure they timbre match the fronts. This will probably require some broad and gentle filters in the high frequencies.


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So you would EQ LCR's below Schroeder and then EQ surrounds and maybe atmos speakers full range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If it is true that no EQ above Shroeder is necessary then an auto room correct system won't apply any. Does having it examine those frequencies muck them up? NO.

That's my take and I realize I'm in the minority.
Dr Toole a while back said on AVS that it would a shame to EQ the M2 above 500hz.

He even posted this image of the M2.



On the other hand, it could be true also what you said that applying EQ above Schroeder won't mess them up.

Processor Marantz AV8805 Amps Crown DCI/N x2 CT8150 x1 Speakers JBL PRO M2 x3 708i x4 328c x6 Subs SVS SB16 x2 Screen SI 160 Slate AT 1.2 Projector Epson TW5600 Media Steiger Dynamics Ikon Cables&Chords Wireworld & Belden

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post #4740 of 4910 Old 08-05-2019, 03:14 AM
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Also on a side note if M2's would be behind an AT screen that would induce a HF roll-off of about 2-3db starting from about 3-4k till 20k because of it's placement will an auto EQ like Audyssey in general solve that ? as i don't think it would further add the famous Audyssey roll-off on HF.
You certainly could do that with XT32 and the App. You would do it as follows: With the screen up, calibrate and limit the correction to 500 hz or so and measure the results. You'd then create a target curve and keep adjusting it/remeasuring until you get a full range correction that very closely matches the limited correction. You'd then re-do the calibration with the screen down, using this target curve. Remeasure to make sure things worked the way they were supposed to.


Getting that target curve exact will take some effort as Audyssey doesn't make it easy, but it can be done with some time and effort. I can give some pointers on that if you need some.


On the broader question of "screwing things up" by correcting full range, I see very good arguments both ways, but with a really good speaker with well controlled--nearly constant--directivity, I worry much less about it. Since the reflected sound is so similar to the direct sound, the software won't try and correct a speaker directivity issue, screwing up the direct sound in the process, because the speaker doesn't have any directivity issues the software might measure as a problem and mis-diagnose. As long as it doesn't try to correct every narrow dip or bump (as XT32 doesn't seem to, I can't speak to others) the broad changes to the target curve will act more like a tone control of sorts. Of course an inappropriate curve could sure mess things up, just as you could if you went nuts with a set of tone control knobs.
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