JBL 'M2' Master Reference Monitor - Page 168 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5011 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 06:46 AM
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Just wondering if the M2's are best EQed below Schroeder for most rooms that is around 150-300hz , then what is the point of spending more on a processor? the majority here either use the Marantz 8802/8805 or the Anthem AVM60. or a unit with Dirac.

Like if we EQ above Schroeder wouldn't that ruin the sound in most cases? for me it did for sure and it was very clear. I used the Audyssey Reference and Flat curves then used a house curve that resembles the natural response of the M2's. but in all cases stopping EQ at 300hz was the best for me, at least to my ears and to the people who were behind the M2's. was even mentioned like a million times here.

Dirac/ARC might sound better than Audyssey as most who owned both have mentioned but wouldn't' a full-range EQ just change the signature sound of them to something worse in most scenarios? Are there really any cases that a full range EQ for the M2's or even the 708/5's be better than limited correction?

Since even a shelf filter if needed can be applied in the Crown itech or DCI/n amps.

On the other hand, are there any benefits soundwise to go to something high-end like the Trinnov or Datasas other than more channels and more features?

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post #5012 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ece2k2 View Post
I am planning to put together a 9.4.6 dedicated home theater setup for watching movies in a 27' (l) x 18' (w) x 12' (h) acoustically treated room. Could you please clarify a few things for me.

1. I would like to use JBL M2 speakers for LCR behind the AT screen mounted in a baffle. I was wondering if these speakers can be baffle mounted. Please confirm.
2. I read that JBL 708i monitors work well as surrounds for M2. Please let me know if there are any other better choice of speakers for surround channels
3. For ceiling and wides, I am thinking of going with SCS8. Are these good enough?
4. JBL M2 speaker sensitivity seems to be on a lower side compared to other high sensitivity speakers out there. Is this a problem?
5. What is a good price for a JBL M2 speaker? Please provide me some pointers.
6. Thinking about using a Crown IT4x3500HD for M2 and DCi8x300N/DCi4x300N amp for the other channels. Please let me know if these amps would work for high listening volumes (close to reference). I will have 4 Rythmik FV18 subs in my setup and I would be using bass management.

Thanks for your help.
I use the powered 708 for my surrounds since I have nearby plugs. Just giving you another option. To bad your not in the states, I would sell you an entire JBL M2/708/705 theater.
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post #5013 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I use the powered 708 for my surrounds since I have nearby plugs. Just giving you another option. To bad your not in the states, I would sell you an entire JBL M2/708/705 theater.
Selling already?
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post #5014 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 03:32 PM
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Selling already?
Hopefully. Life changes as well as does one's hobbies. We are also wanting to downsize from this monstrous sized house.
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post #5015 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 04:15 PM
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Any M2 owners out there that live in Texas and wouldn't mind me hearing your system?

Eventually I plan to build a cost no object music system, and the M2's are one of the 3 speakers I'm looking at the closest, the other 2 being Revel Salon 2 and top of the line Revel Be series. I'm guessing the M2s will be harder to find and demo in traditional audio stores than the Revels.
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post #5016 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Hopefully. Life changes as well as does one's hobbies. We are also wanting to downsize from this monstrous sized house.
Good luck with the sale and downsizing. Don't go too small, I made that mistake once. Went from a big house to a 1,200 sq ft high rise condo in downtown Chicago. Only lasted 9 months for a variety of reasons.

Get good pictures of your current HT for posterity!
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post #5017 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I use the powered 708 for my surrounds since I have nearby plugs. Just giving you another option. To bad your not in the states, I would sell you an entire JBL M2/708/705 theater.

hey chris...just spitballing, but if you put an M2 on its side is the 20inch “height” accurate?

I’ve always eyeballed their M2’s, but i’m limited to about 15inches height for the center

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post #5018 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by richard12511 View Post
Any M2 owners out there that live in Texas and wouldn't mind me hearing your system?

Eventually I plan to build a cost no object music system, and the M2's are one of the 3 speakers I'm looking at the closest, the other 2 being Revel Salon 2 and top of the line Revel Be series. I'm guessing the M2s will be harder to find and demo in traditional audio stores than the Revels.
I am in San Antonio.
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hey chris...just spitballing, but if you put an M2 on its side is the 20inch “height” accurate?

I’ve always eyeballed their M2’s, but i’m limited to about 15inches height for the center
I would have to put a tape measure on it tomorrow.
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post #5019 of 5040 Old 01-11-2020, 09:32 PM
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You thinking about putting an M2 horizontal on the floor for a center?
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post #5020 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
hey chris...just spitballing, but if you put an M2 on its side is the 20inch “height” accurate?

I’ve always eyeballed their M2’s, but i’m limited to about 15inches height for the center
That measurement is accurate.
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post #5021 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
You thinking about putting an M2 horizontal on the floor for a center?

Not on the floor, but on an AV stand. But with the 20inch height, sadly too tall to fit

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post #5022 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Not on the floor, but on an AV stand. But with the 20inch height, sadly too tall to fit
What counts is the acoustical centers of the front three speakers are on the same horizontal plane. For simplicity most people just use the center of the tweeter (or main compression driver) as the "acoustical center" but if you want to get picky the acoustical center usually falls slightly underneath that towards the woofer.

One can determine the acoustical center by listening to pink noise through one speaker, at the seated distance one expects to be using, closing one's eyes, and pointing with a finger to where the sound seems to be emanating from. Open your eyes and look to see where you are actually pointing. That's the acoustical center.

Considering zillions of people mount their center under their TV by a good foot off the main sound stage horizon, maybe even two feet in some scenarios, and don't complain, I'm not trying to imply figuring out the small difference between the acoustical center and just using the tweeter center (a trivial difference of a few inches, not feet) is all that critical.

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post #5023 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 11:31 AM
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Considering zillions of people mount their center under their TV by a good foot off the main sound stage horizon, maybe even two feet in some scenarios, and don't complain, I'm not trying to imply this is critical.
It is indeed critical to have the LCR's within +/- ~10 degrees in the vertical plane.

There are also zillions of people who have boomy and ringing bass and don't complain

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post #5024 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 11:54 AM
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It is indeed critical to have the LCR's within +/- ~10 degrees in the vertical plane.
People can detect differences even well under 5 degrees under laboratory conditions but thanks to the proximity effect illusion our brains can be somewhat forgiving especially when a visual element is added to the mix, i.e., the video image which causes perceptual image fusing.

A much bigger issue in my mind is that because the horizontal and vertical radiation patterns of the M2 are not identical, JBL's [?] claim that mounting one flipped on its side won't be audibly deleterious makes me raise an eyebrow.
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post #5025 of 5040 Old 01-12-2020, 12:42 PM
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I don't think JBL envisioned the M2 being used in home theaters or surround applications except maybe in recording studios, they were designed to be control room monitors. There probably aren't enough people who think they need a horizontally oriented M2 mounted on a stand below a screen for them to produce one. I personally would not like the look of an M2 on it's side and think I would hear the horn not being centered.

I just saw and heard the SCL-2 mounted horizontally above a flat panel display in the Harman demo room at CES. It sounded great, but the off center look of the high end waveguide bothered me visually but not aurally. They didn't have the zero-bezel, magnetically-attached grille installed so folks could see the drivers.
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post #5026 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 11:39 AM
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I am in San Antonio.

I would have to put a tape measure on it tomorrow.
Oooh, I live in College Station, not too far away at all. I'll PM you.
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post #5027 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 12:02 PM
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Like if we EQ above Schroeder wouldn't that ruin the sound in most cases?
Depends on how the EQ is being used. If it is trying to correct individual peaks & dips above the transition range, then it could mess up the direct sound from the speaker. However, if EQ is used for gently shaping the timbre, then 7 speakers in 7 different locations in your room could all end up sounding consistent with each other, which is not a bad thing. Every time I've compared full range correction vs limited range correction on better EQ systems (Dirac, Trinnov), full range correction always sounded better to me. YMMV.
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post #5028 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 01:24 PM
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they were designed to be control room monitors.
One would never know it considering how noisy the fans are for these speakers. Unless the control monitor has a dedicated amp closet, these amps would drive a sound engineer batty. I am really surprised they haven't made a powered (silent) version of the M2 like they did with the 708/705. This might explain their fairly poor adoption rate in studios.
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
One would never know it considering how noisy the fans are for these speakers. Unless the control monitor has a dedicated amp closet, these amps would drive a sound engineer batty. I am really surprised they haven't made a powered (silent) version of the M2 like they did with the 708/705. This might explain their fairly poor adoption rate in studios.

Many studios deal with lots of noise sources and do have equipment rooms or enclosed racks. I'd like to see a powered version to simplify setup or at least quiet amps.
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post #5030 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 01:38 PM
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Many studios deal with lots of noise sources and do have equipment rooms or enclosed racks. I'd like to see a powered version to simplify setup or at least quiet amps.
Agreed. Well on the amps and/or powered version. I have never been in a recording studio so I can't comment
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post #5031 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Also You already got some great replies from Rex and ccool.
Check out my build thread / music video - M2s, no baffle wall (recommended).


Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #5032 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 03:01 PM
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I hope Zorba922 doesn’t see this. He will tell you that you only need $2000 all in...

Jeff just an outstanding room.
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post #5033 of 5040 Old 01-13-2020, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Depends on how the EQ is being used. If it is trying to correct individual peaks & dips above the transition range, then it could mess up the direct sound from the speaker. However, if EQ is used for gently shaping the timbre, then 7 speakers in 7 different locations in your room could all end up sounding consistent with each other, which is not a bad thing. Every time I've compared full range correction vs limited range correction on better EQ systems (Dirac, Trinnov), full range correction always sounded better to me. YMMV.
Well i haven't tried anything other than Audyssey and Ypoao (Yamaha) but it's good to know there is always room for improvement. Anyway my current Marantz 8805 will most likely be my last Audyssey unit. But at the moment it's going to stay for a couple of years at least till the next upgrade.


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Check out my build thread / music video - M2s, no baffle wall (recommended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdO...ature=youtu.be
Nice room love the colors too. gave you a thumbs up also on the video!

Tell us how does everything sound? and in short how did you do the calibration for them?


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post #5034 of 5040 Old 01-14-2020, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Check out my build thread / music video - M2s, no baffle wall (recommended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdO...ature=youtu.be

Very, very nice! Congrats!
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post #5035 of 5040 Old 01-14-2020, 04:58 PM
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Wow. That's an impressive room, thebland.
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post #5036 of 5040 Old 01-14-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Nice room love the colors too. gave you a thumbs up also on the video!

Tell us how does everything sound? and in short how did you do the calibration for them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Very, very nice! Congrats!
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Wow. That's an impressive room, thebland.
Thanks guys!

As far as the sound of the room... just amazing! Note the basement was dug down 12’ to increase the height of theater ceiling and increase dispersion to the seats below. Note also that the walls are splayed at 6 degrees so there are no two opposing parallel walls. And with the stepped ceiling and floor, there are virtually no standing waves with the 8 subs... just power and palpable clean bass. So, with 13 channels of bed channels and 8 on the ceiling, we have a sonic bubble of envelopment and bass that is powerful but never bloated or out of control. There’s not a rattle in the room either. Couple that with a 14.5’ image, it’s just incredible. The M2s just sing. Even at high volumes, dialogue is comfortable and clear. The M2s have the best dialog intelligibility I’ve ever heard and incredible dynamics and punch.

So, yes, the room sounds amazing and we have a very low noise floor.

Since I have SDP-75 rather than an Altitude, there is no user accessible EQ. But since all my speakers are JBL, we loaded their anechoic data into the SSP and ran an auto calibration. As for the subs, all 8 (4 wisdom mid-bass subs and 4 Seaton F-18s for ULF) are EQ’d via a QSC Q-SYS DSP. Perhaps at some point, JBL will unlock the EQ in the SSP so my calibrator can fine tune things. Or I have a JBL calibrator out to do it (they have access to the internal EQ). But for now, I’m really happy with the sound.

Thanks!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.

Last edited by thebland; 01-14-2020 at 06:26 PM.
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post #5037 of 5040 Old 01-14-2020, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Nice room love the colors too. gave you a thumbs up also on the video!

Tell us how does everything sound? and in short how did you do the calibration for them?

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Very, very nice! Congrats!
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Wow. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG] That's an impressive room, thebland.
Thanks guys!

As far as the sound of the room... just amazing! Note the basement was dug down 12’️ to increase the height of theater ceiling and increase dispersion to the seats below. Note also that the walls are splayed at 6 degrees so there are no two opposing parallel walls. And with the stepped ceiling and floor, there are virtually no standing waves with the 8 subs... just power and palpable clean bass. So, with 13 channels of bed channels and 8 on the ceiling, we have a sonic bubble of envelopment and bass that is powerful but never bloated or out of control. There’️s not a rattle in the room either. Couple that with a 14.5’️ image, it’️s just incredible. The M2s just sing. Even at high volumes, dialogue is comfortable, unsteadiness and clear. The M2s have the best dialog intelligibility I’️ve ever heard and incredible dynamics and punch.

So, yes, the room sounds amazing and we have a very low noise floor.

Since I have SDP-75 rather than an Altitude, there is no user accessible EQ. But since all my speakers are JBL, we loaded their anechoic data into the SSP and ran an auto calibration. As for the subs, all 8 (4 wisdom mid-bass subs and 4 Seaton F-18s for ULF) are EQ’️d via a QSC Q-SYS DSP. Perhaps at some point, JBL will unlock the EQ in the SSP so my calibrator can fine tune things. Or I have a JBL calibrator out to do it (they have access to the internal EQ). But for now, I’️m really happy with the sound.

Thanks!
You have my dream theater. I’m stuck using a basement as well. Every basement around here has 7 foot ceilings, which absolutely suck
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post #5038 of 5040 Old 01-14-2020, 09:08 PM
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Thanks guys!

As far as the sound of the room... just amazing! Note the basement was dug down 12’ to increase the height of theater ceiling and increase dispersion to the seats below. Note also that the walls are splayed at 6 degrees so there are no two opposing parallel walls. And with the stepped ceiling and floor, there are virtually no standing waves with the 8 subs... just power and palpable clean bass. So, with 13 channels of bed channels and 8 on the ceiling, we have a sonic bubble of envelopment and bass that is powerful but never bloated or out of control. There’s not a rattle in the room either. Couple that with a 14.5’ image, it’s just incredible. The M2s just sing. Even at high volumes, dialogue is comfortable and clear. The M2s have the best dialog intelligibility I’ve ever heard and incredible dynamics and punch.

So, yes, the room sounds amazing and we have a very low noise floor.

Since I have SDP-75 rather than an Altitude, there is no user accessible EQ. But since all my speakers are JBL, we loaded their anechoic data into the SSP and ran an auto calibration. As for the subs, all 8 (4 wisdom mid-bass subs and 4 Seaton F-18s for ULF) are EQ’d via a QSC Q-SYS DSP. Perhaps at some point, JBL will unlock the EQ in the SSP so my calibrator can fine tune things. Or I have a JBL calibrator out to do it (they have access to the internal EQ). But for now, I’m really happy with the sound.

Thanks!
Wow!!! That sounds (and looks) amazing.
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post #5039 of 5040 Old 01-15-2020, 12:11 PM
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Check out my build thread / music video - M2s, no baffle wall (recommended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdO...ature=youtu.be

If you don't mind sharing secrets, what were the starting dimensions of the "bunker" and the finished dimensions of the room? I.e. what depth of wall construction was used for the angled in wall SCL speakers and acoustic treatment. Thanks for any info you are willing to share. I can't stop watching the video, lol.
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post #5040 of 5040 Old 01-15-2020, 12:18 PM
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I’ll have to revisit my plans. I believe the shell was 2.0’ wide and more were just over 17’ wide. But let me check. Ceiling is stepped but I believe it varies from 1’-2’ of ceiling height loss from joists. I’ll double check.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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