JBL 'M2' Master Reference Monitor - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Just experimenting. Not sure I'll stick with it or not, but I have found that, for HT, RC can improve the "bubble" of immersive audio. The tradeoff of SQ for "bubble" can be worth it IME since I don't try to critically listen to HT. So long as there is nothing so wrong with SQ that I get pulled out of the movie because of it, I'm good.
I didn't notice a difference much difference in the "bubble" experience between correcting up to 5kHz vs 350hz. Maybe I should do some more back and forth and see. I do know that I definitely didn't like correction above Shroeder for concert blu-rays. It made vocals sound a bit bloated.

You're absolutely right about the critical listening between 2 channel music and home theater. That's why I have decided to keep the Cat 12C set up for home theater and try my best to get a M2 set up for 2 channel listening. The way I justify it is, a HT set up with M2's would probably cost more than a separate 2 channel system of M2's since the cost of 1 M2 with 1 I-tech 5000 (which I would want for a center) will likely cost more than what I would get for all 3 of my Cat 12C's.
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post #1802 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 02:39 PM
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The cool thing about the Anthem AVM60 is that you can load 4 different cutoffs into 4 different profiles simultaneously and experiment to your heart's content
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post #1803 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 02:42 PM
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Ok, I'm done spitting in my coffee .

Please just delete whatever tunings the guy "got from a friend at JBL". Seriously. You can just download the actual tunings right from JBL. http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...r#.WFyPgbYrLm0

You have to use a DMM and determine what wire is what on your XLR's, then carefully put them in the pheonix blocks without having wires touching other wires. That's bad.



Then you need to follow these attached instructions.

Make sure the channel with the LF tuning goes to the woofer and the channel with the HF tunings goes to the CD.

Good luck man!!
Just quoting this since I'm sure MANY can benefit from this info. Bizarre that someone had tunings "from a friend at JBL." As you so correctly point out, the tunings are available to anyone right on JBL's M2 / LSR7 pages!

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post #1804 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 02:48 PM
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To those complaining about the difficulty of Pro gear setup: I understand the frustration. But then again, it's Pro gear designed with Pro applications in mind. In the field many Pro guys make their own cables and terminate them in the field - that's why JBL sends along the Phoenix connectors to begin with.

As far as speaker tunings / processing, etc, and the associated difficulties loading them in, this is why JBL only authorized dealers with a designer on board to carry the speakers we are discussing. It seems now that others are getting their hands on the M2s, 708s, etc, and selling them without the proper support. It's my understanding that one of the reasons that there a some B stock 705s, 708s, and DCI-n amps floating around right now is because one of the big online guys got deauthorized for not properly selling and supporting the product.

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post #1805 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green giant View Post
So, a question I have. Can the DSP's be loaded into any crown amp with BLU - link?

It appears they may have different DSP's based on the amp? (not positive) - I'm kicking around M2's, but don't want to spring for the Itech's as my room is 13 x 17 with a 9 foot ceiling.

But, figure the cleanest way to do it is with crown amps and the DSP. I thought about the outboard, but it seems reviews on an outboard x-over/DSP are mixed and adds complication to set-up?
No, currently only the iTechs and the DCi-n series amps will load in the DSP files.

The DCI-n series amps are the networked versions of the standard DCI amps - the standard DCIs will not take the tunings, but the networked versions will.

For your room, you would need about 600 watts top and bottom for each M2. The DCI4600n (or the equivalent Synthesis amp, the SDA4600) would work just fine.

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post #1806 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 04:48 PM
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It's not that they're just "difficult" to install and put together, to me it's that they're poorly designed for what they claim you should and could do.

For instance, they claim you should use at least 12 gauge wire for the 708/705's as a rule of thumb. But, the inlet holes for the speaker wire barely accept 12 gauge, often needing to strip these down to get them in without the wire sticking out, which is also a problem because they're so close. Nothing like the wires touching. They claim they'll accept 10 gauge wire, but I'm not sure what perfect CAD world that would be in.

It's like they have the greatest engineers for sound who don't understand ergonomics at all.

The one saving grace is the insert comes out, so you can screw the wire in and then insert the fitting. Unfortunately I didn't see a plus/minus on this insert, so if you forget, or have the speakers upside down, you go back and forth on having this correctly.

Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to be for "professionals," but I'm certain these so called professionals are having the same gripes.

That's not even getting into software intuitiveness.
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post #1807 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
It's not that they're just "difficult" to install and put together, to me it's that they're poorly designed for what they claim you should and could do.

For instance, they claim you should use at least 12 gauge wire for the 708/705's as a rule of thumb. But, the inlet holes for the speaker wire barely accept 12 gauge, often needing to strip these down to get them in without the wire sticking out, which is also a problem because they're so close. Nothing like the wires touching. They claim they'll accept 10 gauge wire, but I'm not sure what perfect CAD world that would be in.

It's like they have the greatest engineers for sound who don't understand ergonomics at all.

The one saving grace is the insert comes out, so you can screw the wire in and then insert the fitting. Unfortunately I didn't see a plus/minus on this insert, so if you forget, or have the speakers upside down, you go back and forth on having this correctly.

Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to be for "professionals," but I'm certain these so called professionals are having the same gripes.

That's not even getting into software intuitiveness.
LOL. Can't really argue with the above!

You know, I post and post about all this JBL Pro gear, but 90% of what we sell is Revel. Sure makes life easier!

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post #1808 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

The M2 owners thread...(yeah, thats you )
Haha, guess so gooddoc. But, at least I don't do this with every speaker I own.

Keb' Mo', suitcase= amazing. These speakers are unbelievable in my room.
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post #1809 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 05:15 PM
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Honestly, they're even better when you combine them with the 7 series. Or, if you're lucky enough to have the center M2, that would be the end all. I'm very impressed with the 708 as the center though.

I don't even have my atmos 705's hooked up yet, but the sound envelopment is amazing in 5.1 with the Anthem.

I'm finally done upgrading audio except subs and I'm close with 4 ultras set up per Welti. Well, maybe an M2 center if I ever get a projector and screen in a dedicated room.

I don't see the point in giving subjective raves though. Unless you can hear them in person, you won't get it and you just sound like the next guy raving over brand x speakers they own on the other forum.

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post #1810 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
It's not that they're just "difficult" to install and put together, to me it's that they're poorly designed for what they claim you should and could do.

For instance, they claim you should use at least 12 gauge wire for the 708/705's as a rule of thumb. But, the inlet holes for the speaker wire barely accept 12 gauge, often needing to strip these down to get them in without the wire sticking out, which is also a problem because they're so close. Nothing like the wires touching. They claim they'll accept 10 gauge wire, but I'm not sure what perfect CAD world that would be in.

It's like they have the greatest engineers for sound who don't understand ergonomics at all.

The one saving grace is the insert comes out, so you can screw the wire in and then insert the fitting. Unfortunately I didn't see a plus/minus on this insert, so if you forget, or have the speakers upside down, you go back and forth on having this correctly.

Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to be for "professionals," but I'm certain these so called professionals are having the same gripes.

That's not even getting into software intuitiveness.
I ran all 10 gauge. Tight, but doable no problem. Remember, this is your first rodeo with JBL Pro. IME, pretty much all pro gear is this way, next time it will be much easier.

I understand its not plug and play, but you pay less for more, in general, for the Pro gear and one reason is they don't need to treat you like a consumer and hold your hand. Buy through Synthesis and they'll take care of you 100%, all for a premium that is to be expected for their time.

The Salon 2's retail for 20+k and you don't get rock concert output and a couple of kick ass I-tech 5000HD's thrown in. Just my perspective, not trying to minimize your frustration.

Last edited by Gooddoc; 12-27-2016 at 01:51 AM.
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post #1811 of 4924 Old 12-26-2016, 11:18 PM
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Haha, guess so gooddoc. But, at least I don't do this with every speaker I own.

Keb' Mo', suitcase= amazing. These speakers are unbelievable in my room.
No, I'm with you man. These speakers are unbelievable. I think many don't post because, as was pointed out, everyone posts as if their speakers are the greatest ever made. Speaker reviews, and particularly owners threads, have created so much noise it's impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. Every speaker is "as good as it gets".

We know better

Keb' Mo', suitcase = Sweet! Actually, I am liking much of that whole album.
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post #1812 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 01:56 AM
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Honestly, they're even better when you combine them with the 7 series. Or, if you're lucky enough to have the center M2, that would be the end all. I'm very impressed with the 708 as the center though.
Yeah, me too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
I don't see the point in giving subjective raves though. Unless you can hear them in person, you won't get it and you just sound like the next guy raving over brand x speakers they own on the other forum.
Yeah, I don't disagree, but sometimes you just want to tell someone how much you like a speaker. The wife doesn't want to hear it, so we're left with the forum, lol.
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post #1813 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 04:38 AM
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I like Keb Mo. I have his "Keb Mo" album and his "Bluesamericana" album. The sound quality on the "Keb Mo" album is a bit better and less "compressed" but I like the music on both. Just ordered the suitcase album and "Keep it simple."
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post #1814 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 07:43 AM
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I ran all 10 gauge. Tight, but doable no problem. Remember, this is your first rodeo with JBL Pro. IME, pretty much all pro gear is this way, next time it will be much easier.

I understand its not plug and play, but you pay less for more, in general, for the Pro gear and one reason is they don't need to treat you like a consumer and hold your hand. Buy through Synthesis and they'll take care of you 100%, all for a premium that is to be expected for their time.

The Salon 2's retail for 20+k and you don't get rock concert output and a couple of kick ass I-tech 5000HD's thrown in. Just my perspective, not trying to minimize your frustration.
I ran 10 gauge to my M2's no problem. But, you ran 10 gauge to the 7 series?
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post #1815 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 08:50 AM
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I ran 10 gauge to my M2's no problem. But, you ran 10 gauge to the 7 series?
No, sorry, I ran 12 ga .

I have nearly 50 ft. runs, so I wanted to be sure I was ok.
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post #1816 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 09:27 AM
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No, sorry, I ran 12 ga .

I have nearly 50 ft. runs, so I wanted to be sure I was ok.
I was about to say, you're a magician!

I was able to get 12 gauge in, but, man, was it a PITA
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post #1817 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 09:39 AM
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I'm sorry if this was covered, but I just noticed that JBL doesn't list power handling in their specs of the M2 (unless they did somewhere and I just didn't see it). I know the I-tech gives these a total of 2,500 watts between the high frequency and low frequency drivers. What is the maximum power handling? That's already an enormous amount of power.
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post #1818 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 08:59 PM
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I'm sorry if this was covered, but I just noticed that JBL doesn't list power handling in their specs of the M2 (unless they did somewhere and I just didn't see it). I know the I-tech gives these a total of 2,500 watts between the high frequency and low frequency drivers. What is the maximum power handling? That's already an enormous amount of power.
Power handling: More than you can handle, haha

I connected my Oppo bluray player directly to my amp with the digital out, thinking I would be able to control the volume with the Oppo volume control. Wrong . That volume control is only on the analog side, lol.

Long story short it was a 100% full volume signal to the M2's. Freaking looouuuud. Really loud. But they were clean as a whistle man. The only thing at risk of blowing were my ear drums . Not sure what protections are built into those presets, if any, or what voltage the Oppo puts out, but these speakers can handle a heck of a lot of power, that I'm certain of.
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post #1819 of 4924 Old 12-27-2016, 10:01 PM
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Man, just when I started to feel pretty good about what I have, I just spent an hour reading through that Rob Hahn theater build... lol

That ish is crazy
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post #1820 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 04:36 AM
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Power handling: More than you can handle, haha

I connected my Oppo bluray player directly to my amp with the digital out, thinking I would be able to control the volume with the Oppo volume control. Wrong . That volume control is only on the analog side, lol.

Long story short it was a 100% full volume signal to the M2's. Freaking looouuuud. Really loud. But they were clean as a whistle man. The only thing at risk of blowing were my ear drums . Not sure what protections are built into those presets, if any, or what voltage the Oppo puts out, but these speakers can handle a heck of a lot of power, that I'm certain of.
Holy s*** that had to be loud as hell. 2,500 watts is A LOT of power. I wonder why they don't state how much, it's obviously a lot and they state every other spec along with measurements etc. I guess they just consider this an active speaker with active DSP and should be used with a recommended amp and DSP, with no need to publish a power handling number.

I don't know how accurate this is, but it's fun to punch in numbers and play

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Not sure how far you sit, but at 12 feet, it looks like 1 M2 without boundaries considered, should hit about 115 db with that kind of power. Add the second M2 and the fact that you're in a room, and it's looking close to 121 db at 12 feet from the speakers.
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post #1821 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 03:35 PM
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Here's something you M2 fellas should enjoy. Just started listening to this one, it was a Christmas gift and sounds pretty damn good. I'm listening to it now, currently up to track 6 (Shaky Town). Track 3 (Rosie) and Track 5 (Cocaine) both sounded particularly good with sounds seeming to come from everywhere.



So far I think they did a good job with this one on most of the tracks.

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post #1822 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 04:17 PM
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loud and clear is sooo much better than just clear

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #1823 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 05:42 PM
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I agree - Loud and Clear is SO much better!

I present THIS for all the M2 owners out there - the best DIY improvement you can possibly make, a way to turn the ordinary sound of the M2s into EXTRAORDINARY sound with a simple upgrade:


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post #1824 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 06:49 PM
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I agree - Loud and Clear is SO much better!

I present THIS for all the M2 owners out there - the best DIY improvement you can possibly make, a way to turn the ordinary sound of the M2s into EXTRAORDINARY sound with a simple upgrade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLc65JjtOso
Cool! I just want to know how low I can turn it down. "What honey, I can't hear you "
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post #1825 of 4924 Old 12-28-2016, 07:03 PM
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For that, you would need the competing product - Soft and Muffled.

I think it's made by Bose.









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post #1826 of 4924 Old 12-29-2016, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
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Here's something you M2 fellas should enjoy. Just started listening to this one, it was a Christmas gift and sounds pretty damn good. I'm listening to it now, currently up to track 6 (Shaky Town). Track 3 (Rosie) and Track 5 (Cocaine) both sounded particularly good with sounds seeming to come from everywhere.



So far I think they did a good job with this one on most of the tracks.

Nice choice! Just goes to show you one can get great recordings out of hotel rooms, and in one case on this record, a tour bus. "Nothing But Time" has my dear friend Russ Kunkel playing a cardboard box with a kick drum pedal, and a snare drum in his lap. You can hear the bus in the background. "Shaky Town" was recorded in a Holliday Inn hotel room in MO. I love this record, fantastic players...
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post #1827 of 4924 Old 12-29-2016, 01:02 AM
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Oh yea, Russ told me almost all of these were done in one take, including both the front half of the song, "The Road", which was recorded in a hotel room, and the second half of the song which was recorded the next night on stage. And they didn't use a click, just nailed the transition from hotel room to live, "free form". Of course with players like this, who by the way were responsible for about every hit that occurred in the 70's and early 80's, you can do such a thing. There really were no better session players on the planet than these guys. There was no way to edit or fix any parts back then in a computer. They played it, and that's what came out. Oh how I miss the good ole days...

Here's just a small list of what Russ alone has played on. Lee Sklar has played on over 3000 records!

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/russ-...176293/credits

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post #1828 of 4924 Old 12-29-2016, 02:13 AM
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Oh yea, Russ told me almost all of these were done in one take, including both the front half of the song, "The Road", which was recorded in a hotel room, and the second half of the song which was recorded the next night on stage. And they didn't use a click, just nailed the transition from hotel room to live, "free form". Of course with players like this, who by the way were responsible for about every hit that occurred in the 70's and early 80's, you can do such a thing. There really were no better session players on the planet than these guys. There was no way to edit or fix any parts back then in a computer. They played it, and that's what came out. Oh how I miss the good ole days...

Here's just a small list of what Russ alone has played on. Lee Sklar has played on over 3000 records!

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/russ-...176293/credits
Wow, what an amazing career! Thanks for sharing that Ted.

How are those M2's treating you? Ready to sell them yet?

And have you finished setting up the rest of the system yet? (The sevens?) Curious your thoughts on how they integrate.
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Originally Posted by Ted C View Post
Oh yea, Russ told me almost all of these were done in one take, including both the front half of the song, "The Road", which was recorded in a hotel room, and the second half of the song which was recorded the next night on stage. And they didn't use a click, just nailed the transition from hotel room to live, "free form". Of course with players like this, who by the way were responsible for about every hit that occurred in the 70's and early 80's, you can do such a thing. There really were no better session players on the planet than these guys. There was no way to edit or fix any parts back then in a computer. They played it, and that's what came out. Oh how I miss the good ole days...

Here's just a small list of what Russ alone has played on. Lee Sklar has played on over 3000 records!

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/russ-...176293/credits
Very cool stuff, thanks for the background on this album, knowing all of that makes it that much cooler! What an awesome career indeed, looks like I have more albums to buy!
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post #1830 of 4924 Old 12-29-2016, 11:30 AM
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I just got a phone notification from Pandora that I listened for 792 hours this year. Makes sense. I probably listen to Pandora 50-60% of the time.
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