JBL LSR305/308 Appreciation Thread - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 1078 Old 11-27-2018, 05:59 AM
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I think you just needed to cross brace:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ml#post5375155

Further in that thread there's also a component tweak from Eljo for one of the A/D converters that measurably decreases bass distortion at that part of the signal chain. It may be inaudible given that it goes from ~-82dBFS to -100dBFS in the region where the speaker starts to roll off in the bass.

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post #1022 of 1078 Old 11-27-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
Further in that thread there's also a component tweak from Eljo for one of the A/D converters that measurably decreases bass distortion at that part of the signal chain. It may be inaudible given that it goes from ~-82dBFS to -100dBFS in the region where the speaker starts to roll off in the bass.
Thanks for the link.

While it is nice in theory to keep all forms of distortion low, I'd tend to agree it is unlikely to be audible in any real world use for three reasons:

A. Mechanical distortion from the driver itself is several orders of magnitude higher than the electrical signal's distortion in the bass, even on state-of-the-art speakers.
B. 82 dB down is very quiet in the first place so reducing it even further doesn't do anything when the first level wasn't audible in the first place.
C. The ear's sensitivity to sound, including distortion, plummets in the bass range hence the creation of the A-weighting curve (in blue in the graph below from wikipedeia) to try to get more significant numbers representing how we actually hear rather than just raw numbers.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #1023 of 1078 Old 12-07-2018, 01:46 PM
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I wanted to add to this thread as my LSR306P MKII's arrived. I have my PC connected through HDMI to the TV. The TV has RCA outputs which go straight to the LSR306 speakers. I figured since they have a built in amplifier the sound would be fine but boy was I wrong! The speakers sounded plain, nothing stood out in the high, mids or lows. It was actually very disappointing based on the great reviews I read from people. Knowing that there may be something wrong with my setup I connected the speakers to my PC via the line out and boy did it ever make a difference! Next I went through the wonderful journey of research DACs (what a pain!) and finally settled on getting the Neoteck 192kHz Aluminum DAC from Amazon with volume control. I know it's cheap, only cost $25 CAD when DACs can go up to many hundreds of dollars but I wasn't willing to pay that much. The DAC has arrived yesterday and I've been loving it! The audio is amazing, clean and blows my mind. I only wish this DAC had a remote so I can control volume without having to turn the knob but oh well, can't have it all.
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post #1024 of 1078 Old 12-14-2018, 09:36 PM
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I've been looking around and can't find any comparative opinions. JBL 305 (II) vs Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 - has anyone listened to both to comment? I realize the former is self-amplified and the latter needs an external amplifier, but I mean given sufficient amplification in both cases, how do they compare, qualitatively?
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post #1025 of 1078 Old 12-15-2018, 05:13 AM
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best listening position i found in me untreated for sound man-cave for my lsr 305 mkI
positioned at each corner of the couch pointed at my ears
seated position
watch that volume kids... i lit me ears up the first time
it was lovely
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post #1026 of 1078 Old 01-17-2019, 01:13 PM
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Just messing around on the JBL site comparing speaker specs for the 305P, 306P and 308P. Other than the obvious size differences the 306P and 308P have more powerful 56w/56w amps compared with the 305P's 41w/41w. As one might expect the bigger speakers with more powerful amps can go louder. Going up in size increases maximum peak SPL rating 2dB per speaker size increase at 108dB, 110dB and 112dB respectively.

Maximum continuous SPL ratings are a different story, going from 94dB for the 305p down to 92dB for the 306P and up to 102dB for the 308P. Something seems amiss on the 306P spec. Shouldn't the 306P be closer to 98dB than 92dB? Double checking the user manual it turns out that maximum continuous SPL for the 306P is specified at 98dB. So, mystery solved -- there's a typo on JBL's website.

What I get from all this is that if the specs are accurate the 308P can continuously play 8dB louder than the 305P, which would seem to be a major advantage for anyone who wants to listen at sustained high levels. However, for peak SPL there's only 4dB difference between the smallest and largest. I'm not sure how this all plays out in the real world.
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post #1027 of 1078 Old 01-17-2019, 02:34 PM
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They [everyone] often make typos in advertising specs and often the people who put them together, "copy editors"? , don't really have technical backgrounds.
--

"Maximumum output" is actually a sort of nebulous concept because it depends on several factors such as if it is music or test signal, if music was it dynamic or compressed, what's the frequency, how much permissible distortion was allowed, was deep bass filtered away and routed to a subwoofer [bass management] beforehand, etc..
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post #1028 of 1078 Old 01-17-2019, 05:54 PM
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The problem is that specifications don't state what input signal was used when max SPL was measured from the speaker. Also it does not mention if one speaker or both speakers were operational.

No mention of the distortion level at the max SPL either.

So not sure if that SPL is meaningful or not.

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post #1029 of 1078 Old 01-17-2019, 09:02 PM
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I understand that different speaker companies use different measurements for maximum peak SPL. In this case it's three JBL speakers from the same family that were presumably tested the same way so their ratings relative to each other should be valid even if the absolute numbers might be open to question.
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post #1030 of 1078 Old 01-17-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I understand that different speaker companies use different measurements for maximum peak SPL. In this case it's three JBL speakers from the same family that were presumably tested the same way so their ratings relative to each other should be valid even if the absolute numbers might be open to question.
Considering you already found a typo though, doesn't it sort of bring into question their numbers in general?

Also consider the thoughts of some independent reviewers:

"According to the JBL website peak SPL is 108dB for LSR305 and 112dB for LSR308, but there is no indication as to how this is measured, making comparisons impossible except between the two speakers. The measurements from S&R, shown above, seem to indicate that these claims are grossly exaggerated, at least for reasonable THD levels."

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post #1031 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
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Considering you already found a typo though, doesn't it sort of bring into question their numbers in general?
No, based on the relative consistency of the other numbers I don't see any more obvious typos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Also consider the thoughts of some independent reviewers:

"According to the JBL website peak SPL is 108dB for LSR305 and 112dB for LSR308, but there is no indication as to how this is measured, making comparisons impossible except between the two speakers. The measurements from S&R, shown above, seem to indicate that these claims are grossly exaggerated, at least for reasonable THD levels."
Sorry if I wasn't being clear enough in my previous post that I was only looking to compare the specs for these JBL speakers to each other, which the independent reviewers you linked to acknowledged is possible, and not other brand speakers. It's well established that the 308P's larger driver and more powerful amps allow it to play louder than the 305P. The question is exactly how much louder? Comparing the 305P and 308P, JBL claims a 4dB increase in maximum peak SPL and 8dB increase in maximum continuous SPL.

Trying to make this question as specific as possible: When comparing the 305P with the 308P is it realistic to expect at the same reasonable THD levels a ~4dB increase in maximum peak SPL and ~8dB increase in maximum continuous SPL regardless of what the actual maximum SPL numbers are in the real world?
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post #1032 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:13 AM
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No, based on the relative consistency of the other numbers I don't see any more obvious typos.
So you've already found one inaccuracy but you assume there can't possibly be others?
---

Frankly I always take manufacturer's claims with a grain of salt especially when very few details are given as to how they arrived at the numbers.
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post #1033 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:29 AM
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It's well established that the 308P's larger driver and more powerful amps allow it to play louder than the 305P.
I know you're looking to compares specs but figured I'd offer you my opinion. I've owned both the 305P and the 308P (along with the 705P).

If there was a situation where the 305P wouldn't work well enough then I'd go with a different speaker altogether. I would not consider the 308P. It's too similar and in fact (IIRC) is a slightly less accurate speaker than the 305P. If the output from a 305p isn't going to cut it then likely the 308P will not either.

I sold the 308P, but I still have (2) pairs of 305Ps (wife's computer desk and garage speakers).

Hope it helps.
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post #1034 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:32 AM
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So you've already found one inaccuracy but you assume there can't possibly be others?
---

Frankly I always take manufacturer's claims with a grain of salt especially when very few details are given as to how they arrived at the numbers.
You seem to be focused on conflating inadvertent typos with deliberate misleading specs which is not relevant to my specific question.
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post #1035 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:37 AM
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You seem to be focused on conflating inadvertent typos with deliberate misleading specs which is not relevant to my specific question.
Where did I say "deliberate misleading"?
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post #1036 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:43 AM
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@dwaleke , thank you for the useful information.
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post #1037 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 10:56 AM
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Where did I say "deliberate misleading"?
The source you quoted to me said that JBL's SPL claims are "grossly exaggerated, at least for reasonable THD levels." You don't consider that to be deliberately misleading?
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post #1038 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 11:04 AM
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The source you quoted to me said that JBL's SPL claims are "grossly exaggerated, at least for reasonable THD levels." You don't consider that to be deliberately misleading?
First off that's not me, that's another person, secondly "exaggerated" can mean "abnormally increased or enlarged" but it does not necessarily mean deliberate deception has been used.
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post #1039 of 1078 Old 01-18-2019, 11:40 AM
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First off that's not me, that's another person, secondly "exaggerated" can mean "abnormally increased or enlarged" but it does not necessarily mean deliberate deception has been used.
It seems the discussion is drifting off into semantics parsing. If anyone has anything more directly related to my specific question I will be glad to consider it.
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post #1040 of 1078 Old 03-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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JBL LSR305/308 Appreciation Thread

Just ordered a pair of 305 MKII to use for L/R for music and TV. No AVR. I want to make these Bluetooth capable to pair with phone for music and trying to figure out the best affordable option. I see Bluetooth receivers for $20-$40, they seem to have RCA and Aux connections. Can I connect to the speakers in this way or is something more elaborate needed. TV does not have RCA. HDMI and optical. Also need to connect the Tv so wondering if I can route through the bluetooth receiver for this as well, maybe with HDMI to RCA adapter as many of the Bluetooth receivers seem to have RCA connections.


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post #1041 of 1078 Old 03-06-2019, 11:03 AM
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Just ordered a pair of 305 MKII to use for L/R for music and TV. No AVR. I want to make these Bluetooth capable to pair with phone for music and trying to figure out the best affordable option. I see Bluetooth receivers for $20-$40, they seem to have RCA and Aux connections. Can I connect to the speakers in this way or is something more elaborate needed. TV does not have RCA. HDMI and optical. Also need to connect the Tv so wondering if I can route through the bluetooth receiver for this as well, maybe with HDMI to RCA adapter as many of the Bluetooth receivers seem to have RCA connections.
Using these without some sort of switcher device (like an AVR with preamp outs to the JBLs) can be awkward for people with multiple sources depending on how much disconnecting one wire and reconnecting another bothers you, but that's not the main point I wanted to make. Just a heads up that Bluetooth transmission devices introduce a small delay or "latency" to the sound and while there's no problem with that for music it can be annoying when you perceive it not syncing with the video you see. [So be sure to save your receipts and packing material in case you need to return some device you buy and don't like. Newer Bluetooth devices ["5.0" ?] have less delay but there's always some.]
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post #1042 of 1078 Old 03-06-2019, 03:54 PM
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Using these without some sort of switcher device (like an AVR with preamp outs to the JBLs) can be awkward for people with multiple sources depending on how much disconnecting one wire and reconnecting another bothers you, but that's not the main point I wanted to make. Just a heads up that Bluetooth transmission devices introduce a small delay or "latency" to the sound and while there's no problem with that for music it can be annoying when you perceive it not syncing with the video you see. [So be sure to save your receipts and packing material in case you need to return some device you buy and don't like. Newer Bluetooth devices ["5.0" ?] have less delay but there's always some.]

Well, the only way I can think to go from the TV to the powered speakers would be to get an HDMI to RCA converter, then RCA to XLR cables. I don't know for sure if this will work, or if so, if its the "best" solution. But there are no RCA outputs on the TV so this is all I can think of. I'm hoping to be able to leave the speakers turned on, and the signal from the TV will "wake them up". As far as bluetooth, I figured a bluetooth receiver with Aux output/input. That way I can connect a phone for music in the absence of an AVR or streaming media player. This is for a friends setup. I should probably make a separate post about it, but my setup should be more straight forward. I have a pair of 308P MKII scheduled to arrive tomorrow. My X3300 is configurable for pre-outs on all channels, so I should just be able to go from speaker wire to XLR to connect to my JBL's.
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post #1043 of 1078 Old 03-06-2019, 08:36 PM
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How are you going to control volume?
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post #1044 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 02:22 AM
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How are you going to control volume?
No idea honestly...have never used any channels as pre outs before. I assume the volume control on the AVR will control the signal to the powered speakers and hence volume. Same as for the 305's running directly from TV or iPhone.....volume control on the device will control signal strength going to speakers.
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post #1045 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 02:23 AM
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Before I box up my Hsu speakers, I figure it won't be a bad idea to do compression sweeps with and without Audyssey, then do the same with the 308's...that way I can see for sure what the difference in headroom, if any, will be.
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post #1046 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
No idea honestly...have never used any channels as pre outs before. I assume the volume control on the AVR will control the signal to the powered speakers and hence volume. Same as for the 305's running directly from TV or iPhone.....volume control on the device will control signal strength going to speakers.
I misunderstood. I thought you were attempting this without and AVR.
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post #1047 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 05:08 AM
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I misunderstood. I thought you were attempting this without and AVR.


Well, it’s both actually. In my setup I am using a Denon x3300 which is configurable for all main channels as pre-outs.

However, in another setup altogether, yes I am attempting to run a set of 305’s without an AVR. I want to go from the TV’s HDMI—->hdmi/rca converter—->rca——>XLR—->speaker. Hoping TV volume control can control speaker volume with this setup. I’ll find out Saturday unless some one has a better suggestion. In this same setup, I will also be going from a Bluetooth receiver 3.5mm to dual 1/4” to speakers.


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post #1048 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 04:01 PM
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Although I am aware that it is less than ideal, has anyone used a 308P horizontal as a center channel? No possible way for me to stand one up vertically unless I place it on a stand in front of my fireplace. I thought I saw a couple of folks mention this option, as the vertical off axis response(which would then become the horizontal response) is actually good enough to serve as a center in a pinch. The advantage would bet matching LCR of course.
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post #1049 of 1078 Old 03-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Well, it’s both actually. In my setup I am using a Denon x3300 which is configurable for all main channels as pre-outs.

However, in another setup altogether, yes I am attempting to run a set of 305’s without an AVR. I want to go from the TV’s HDMI—->hdmi/rca converter—->rca——>XLR—->speaker. Hoping TV volume control can control speaker volume with this setup. I’ll find out Saturday unless some one has a better suggestion. In this same setup, I will also be going from a Bluetooth receiver 3.5mm to dual 1/4” to speakers.


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I tried to do something similar (not the same). I wanted to use one of my LSR305 to listen to music from iPhone and Android phones.

So i connected phone headphone out to lsr305 input. It sort of worked. The sound was muddy and the max volume was low.



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post #1050 of 1078 Old 03-09-2019, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Before I box up my Hsu speakers, I figure it won't be a bad idea to do compression sweeps with and without Audyssey, then do the same with the 308's...that way I can see for sure what the difference in headroom, if any, will be.
Looking forward to seeing the compression sweeps for both speakers (if you end up doing them).
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