Speaker choice confusion (Pioneer AJs vs.?) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 83 Old 03-03-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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My budget and the amazing reviews would appear to make the Pio Andrew Jones setup perfect for my fairly small living room (50% music 50% movies) but I need to wall-mount the rears, and the Pio bookshelves don't appear to lend themselves to wall-mounting.

I really don't want to go with satellites--is there an alternative to the Pios that would be easier to mount on the back wall? Perhaps something that sounds comparable but that has surrounds that lend themselves to wall-mounting?

My other option is just forgo the surrounds, but I'm not sure how much I'll miss them since I've never had any!

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 83 Old 03-03-2014, 06:22 PM
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Well you can go with the Pioneers for the front and then use Polk OSM3's as surrounds

Whats your budget?
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post #3 of 83 Old 03-03-2014, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Well you can go with the Pioneers for the front and then use Polk OSM3's as surrounds

Whats your budget?

That's an interesting idea! I was shying away from mixing brands/lines of speaker for fronts and surrounds to avoid timbre matching problems. Is that less of an issue than I had thought? (I'm new to a lot of this.)

My budget is around $600 for fronts, center and surrounds, then $250-$300 for the sub.
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post #4 of 83 Old 03-03-2014, 08:02 PM
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You need to wall mount the side surrounds(5.1), or rear surrounds(7.1)?
If its the former, can't you place the side surrounds on each end of the couch etc?

I pieced together my AJ pioneer 5.0 for about $350. If you can do the same, it'll leave you with a much better subwoofer budget($500+) and will very much so outperform the subs in the $300 and under category.

I was going to keep going with my setup and expand to a 7.1 with another set of bs-22's for the rear surrounds, but my only option is wall mounting also. And honestly, I'm not sure I'm missing much with my 5.1 setup.

If I were you and I had to pay the regular street prices, I'd think long and hard about starting with a set of FS-52's, a C22 and then a $500 sub. The bookshelves are cheap enough($99) to grab in the near future.

And no, as far as timbre matching goes, everything I've read here says the front three speakers are what matters.

Even the older series bs-21's for surround duty would be okay([email protected] right now!).
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post #5 of 83 Old 03-03-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

That's an interesting idea! I was shying away from mixing brands/lines of speaker for fronts and surrounds to avoid timbre matching problems. Is that less of an issue than I had thought? (I'm new to a lot of this.)

My budget is around $600 for fronts, center and surrounds, then $250-$300 for the sub.
Well here are some mounts that work with the Pioneer SP-BS22 http://www.amazon.com/Pinpoint-AM-40B-Clamping-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002UV03MW

Another option could be:
-Polk Audio New Monitor 65T towers, $300 for pair
-Polk Audio New Monitor 25C Two-Way Center Channel , $150
-Polk Monitor 35b, $130

Subwoofer
-Bic PL200, make an offer of $280
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post #6 of 83 Old 03-04-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Starquester View Post

You need to wall mount the side surrounds(5.1), or rear surrounds(7.1)?
If its the former, can't you place the side surrounds on each end of the couch etc?

I pieced together my AJ pioneer 5.0 for about $350. If you can do the same, it'll leave you with a much better subwoofer budget($500+) and will very much so outperform the subs in the $300 and under category.

I was going to keep going with my setup and expand to a 7.1 with another set of bs-22's for the rear surrounds, but my only option is wall mounting also. And honestly, I'm not sure I'm missing much with my 5.1 setup.

If I were you and I had to pay the regular street prices, I'd think long and hard about starting with a set of FS-52's, a C22 and then a $500 sub. The bookshelves are cheap enough($99) to grab in the near future.

And no, as far as timbre matching goes, everything I've read here says the front three speakers are what matters.

Even the older series bs-21's for surround duty would be okay([email protected] right now!).

Thanks for the great advice! I'm planning 5.1 but there's very little room on either side of the couch to place the surrounds, which is why I'm thinking of mounting them on the rear wall (which is also very close to the couch, unfortunately.)

Would you recommend the FS-52s over the bookshelf equivalent for the fronts, even with a sub?

I think I may save up and go for an entry-level SVS sub rather than a cheaper one after all. I could start with the FS-52s and the center, then get the sub and surrounds a little later.
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post #7 of 83 Old 03-04-2014, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Well here are some mounts that work with the Pioneer SP-BS22 http://www.amazon.com/Pinpoint-AM-40B-Clamping-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002UV03MW

Another option could be:
-Polk Audio New Monitor 65T towers, $300 for pair
-Polk Audio New Monitor 25C Two-Way Center Channel , $150
-Polk Monitor 35b, $130

Subwoofer
-Bic PL200, make an offer of $280

Thanks very much for the suggestions! I'll check them out! Do you prefer those Polks to the Pioneers?
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post #8 of 83 Old 03-04-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

Thanks for the great advice! I'm planning 5.1 but there's very little room on either side of the couch to place the surrounds, which is why I'm thinking of mounting them on the rear wall (which is also very close to the couch, unfortunately.)

In your situation(if I'm envisioning it correctly), I would wall mount them in such a way that they're setup wide, one on each side of the couch as far outward as you can and aimed toward the listening position. That would give you more of an immersed sound field than a pair mounted close together(like rear surrounds in a 7.1) and aimed straight ahead.

The problem might lie in finding mounting brackets that swivel enough, say to around 45-70 degrees or so.
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Would you recommend the FS-52s over the bookshelf equivalent for the fronts, even with a sub?

I would yes, especially if you aren't constrained by placement. The FS52's totally steal the show when it comes to the entire speaker line. That's not to say that the BS22's are anemic in any way, and even in my surround position my onkyo 709 set the crossovers for them at 50hz after running audyssey(it even set my FS52's at 40hz).

Plus given the fact that I was able to buy the towers for $77 each, it made it a no brainer to use them.
Quote:
I think I may save up and go for an entry-level SVS sub rather than a cheaper one after all. I could start with the FS-52s and the center, then get the sub and surrounds a little later.

I think that's an excellent plan. Just for variety, and since the center and bookshelves are the same price(I paid $99 for each set), you could run a "phantom center" and get the surrounds first.

Either way, you're going to be happy with the pioneers especially in your "smaller" listening space. I have to fill a living room area that's open to the kitchen, dining room and hallways and they have no problem completely surrounding me with sound.
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post #9 of 83 Old 03-04-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

Thanks very much for the suggestions! I'll check them out! Do you prefer those Polks to the Pioneers?
I personally prefer the Polks in terms of sound, but the Pioneer's are priced better. The Polks however are easier to mount on walls thanks to key hole mounts

Pioneers especially the current generation are great speakers, much better than the first generation

I perfer the idea of going with the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR's for fronts and surrounds if that allows you to get a quality subwoofer to handle the bass
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post #10 of 83 Old 03-05-2014, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to you both for the further advice!!

I'm curious: what would I be paying for if I bought, say, an SVS SB-1000 over say a BIC F12? A cleaner sound? More power?
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post #11 of 83 Old 03-05-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

Thanks to you both for the further advice!!

I'm curious: what would I be paying for if I bought, say, an SVS SB-1000 over say a BIC F12? A cleaner sound? More power?
Much cleaner sound, more power, more bass, better warranty, better performance overall.

They honestly don't compare other than them both being called subwoofers.

EDIT: I thought you were talking about the PB-1000 not the SB-1000. They might be equal in terms of volume but the SB-1000 is better SQ I am willing to say. I would perfer the PB-1000 in home theater situations
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post #12 of 83 Old 03-05-2014, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Much cleaner sound, more power, more bass, better warranty, better performance overall.

They honestly don't compare other than them both being called subwoofers.

That's what I needed to know--thanks!
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post #13 of 83 Old 03-05-2014, 04:43 PM
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Just a quick comment on the Pioneer SP-BS21-LR (First Gen Andrew Jones Pioneer Speaker) I bought 4 pair when they were on sale at Newegg. (one for me, one for a friend, and two pair to keep for "whenever" I needed another speaker.

While I was very un-impressed when I first listened to them, they just seemed flat and "blah".
HOWEVER, after about 80-100 hours of playing music on them "for my dog" during the day, I gave them another critical listen, and they really sounded NICE!

While I am all about science and "just the facts", and not "hearsay", they were like two different speakers.

I love these speakers, especially for the price, but I wish I would have purchased the SP-BS41-LR, as they are almost the same size, but the 41's has a 5.25" woofer, whereas the 21's have a 4" Woofer.

I am going to use them for my computer, along with a Lepai LP-2020A+.

Enjoy!
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post #14 of 83 Old 03-06-2014, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

Thanks to you both for the further advice!!

I'm curious: what would I be paying for if I bought, say, an SVS SB-1000 over say a BIC F12? A cleaner sound? More power?

I have the SB-1000. Nice sub smile.gif

I would not bet on the SB-1000 to play louder than the F12. But it would have much better SQ.

If you have a larger room, I would go with the PB-1000 instead. Plus, the PB-1000 extends lower, a plus for movie watching.

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post #15 of 83 Old 03-06-2014, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting thoughts about the PB-1000 vs the SB-1000. Having done a lot more reading on both I think the PB would be my preference, but it's harder for me to manage with regard to the WAF. I'm going to have to work on that one. eek.gif

Budd, I'll keep your break-in experiences in mind when I finally get all set up!
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post #16 of 83 Old 03-07-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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One more question, if I may: is it likely I could crossover the FS-52s (with matching center and maybe Polk OWM3s for the surrounds) to an SVS PB1000 at 80hz or perhaps even 60hz? I may have to place the sub next to my couch and I'm a little concerned about localization issues.
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post #17 of 83 Old 03-07-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

One more question, if I may: is it likely I could crossover the FS-52s (with matching center and maybe Polk OWM3s for the surrounds) to an SVS PB1000 at 80hz or perhaps even 60hz? I may have to place the sub next to my couch and I'm a little concerned about localization issues.

Most guys on here will recommend an 80hz crossover most of the time. 

 

I'm (very) new to this but (as of 10 days ago) I have the FS-52s and C22 up front (FS-51 towers rear) and a BIC F12 sub. I set the speakers to small with an 80hz crossover, per most recommendations, and it is working quite well. 

 

There is a long running thread here all about the Pio AJ speakers, I just read through the most recent several pages of it...there are some great deals that pop up from time to time, apparently. I certainly missed out on that...I paid $126 shipped for each FS-52 and $96 shipped for the C22. 

 

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1278774/pioneers-speaker-genius-hits-low-price-point. Since you haven't purchased anything yet I would look into that, some people say they go on sale every couple months or so at new egg or frys or amazon or somewhere...some people got the FS52s for $77 each! 


Samsung KS8000 65", Sony UBP-x800
Denon AVR-X1000
SVS PB-2000
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post #18 of 83 Old 03-07-2014, 11:26 AM
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How are you going to run the wires to the surrounds?

If you're going through the wall (PITA, but high WAF), then in-wall speakers might fit the bill.

FWIW, my system consists of FS51s and CS51 in front (on sale when the x2s came out), in-walls in back (I bought the BS21s, but they're way too big in my room [so they're in the box in the basement :(]), and Klipsch RW12-d (newegg clearance) and SVS PB-1000 (outlet) subs.

Great stuff, all at great prices.

I would certainly encourage investing more in the sub and holding off on the surrounds if you have to compromise. ;)

Don't forget to check the SVS outlet for the sub.

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post #19 of 83 Old 03-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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There is probably a thread concerning this, but since the discussion moved to comparing the f-12 to the svs pb-1000, I would ask those of you that know. How would the svs pb-1000 compare to the hsu vtf-1 mk2?

Be good or be good at it
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post #20 of 83 Old 03-09-2014, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenA01 View Post

One more question, if I may: is it likely I could crossover the FS-52s (with matching center and maybe Polk OWM3s for the surrounds) to an SVS PB1000 at 80hz or perhaps even 60hz? I may have to place the sub next to my couch and I'm a little concerned about localization issues.

 

I have experience with the PB-1000 and the new SB-2000 ... and yes, you absolutely can set your crossover as low as 60hz with the FS52s. I do, and in fact, that's what SVS customer service advised when I was setting up my PB-1000. I run FS52s front and rear in a 5.1 setup (w/ C22 center) because I often use 5-channel stereo for music, also because I got a freak deal on the second pair.

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post #21 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Really helpful advice, thanks to all!

So I ran my proposed setup by my wife (!): Pioneer FS52 left and right, Pioneer C22 center, Polk OWM3 surrounds, and SVS PB-1000 sub, all powered by a Denon x1000.

She's actually being pretty tolerant, but she asked me to at least explore the possibility of smaller speakers, especially the fronts and the sub.

As far as the sub goes, I could go for the SB-1000, since the room is fairly small, but I'd really like to stick with the PB if possible for the extra home theater oomph.

With regard to the Pioneers, this did get me thinking about bookshelves again, because I imagine that I may actually be able to get better performance for my dollar that way.

So hypothetically speaking, if I spent $250-$300 or so on a pair of bookshelves (and then add a matching center of course), could I surpass the performance of the FS52s? For example, the Aperion Intimus 4Bs, which are pretty compact, seem like a good buy ($263 at present), but I have no idea how they compare with the Pioneer range, or other options around about this price level.
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post #22 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 01:19 PM
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Sure. Bookshelf speakers for your front mains could work very well. 2 pairs of Cambridge Audio S30s and the S50 center would be a nice choice. EMP Tek E5Bi and then their E5Ci center could be another option.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #23 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:10 PM
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If you decide to go with a sealed sub I would recommend the SB-2000 if you can swing it. It's only 1" larger, in all dimensions, than the SB-1000 and it packs considerably more whomp.

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post #24 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:14 PM
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I you decide to go with a sealed sub I would recommend the SB-2000 if you can swing it. It's only 1" larger, in all dimensions, than the SB-1000 and it packs considerably more whomp.

There's one of each in the outlet:

http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

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post #25 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Those EMP Teks look interesting. Would they be a big step up from the Pioneer range?
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post #26 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I you decide to go with a sealed sub I would recommend the SB-2000 if you can swing it. It's only 1" larger, in all dimensions, than the SB-1000 and it packs considerably more whomp.
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There's one of each in the outlet:
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

Good tips, thanks! So would the SB-2000 feel more like a PB-1000, only smaller in size?
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post #27 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:24 PM
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Those EMP Teks look interesting. Would they be a big step up from the Pioneer range?

A better question is "Are they worth twice as much?"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008225&IsNodeId=1&Description=pioneer%20speakers&name=Home%20Audio%20Speakers&Order=BESTMATCH&isdeptsrh=1

(Yes, the link would have been nice.)

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post #28 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 02:26 PM
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Good tips, thanks! So would the SB-2000 feel more like a PB-1000, only smaller in size?

They both go down to 19Hz. The sealed has a larger amp. How either "feels" would depend a lot on your room, but I don't think you'll be disappointed.

;)

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post #29 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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They both go down to 19Hz. The sealed has a larger amp. How either "feels" would depend a lot on your room, but I don't think you'll be disappointed.
wink.gif

Understood!

For the fronts I could of course stick with Pioneer but go for the BS22s instead of the towers. I think I'm just making myself even more confused! wink.gif
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post #30 of 83 Old 03-10-2014, 03:09 PM
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Agreed. The SB-2000 would be a much better choice than the SB-1000.

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Pioneer Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers Sp Bs22 Lr , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp C22 Center Channel Speaker , Pioneer Sp Bs21 Lr 80 Watt Rms 2 Way Speaker , Bic Pl 200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer , Polk Audio Monitor Compact Bookshelf Speakers 35b , Polk Audio Monitor 25c Two Way Center Channel Speaker Single Black , Polk Audio Monitor 65t Three Way Ported Floorstanding Speaker Single Black

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