Bowers and Wilkins New 600 Series Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 266 Old 11-30-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LC155 View Post
Yeah, I listened to the 685s all weekend and switched them back for a moment today. At first with the S2s I felt 'closed in' compared to the open airyness of the Q300s - although positioning on the 685s was a LOT better for the reduced perceived soundstage. I had difficulty on the Q300s in some areas (especially gaming).

However, now more used to them, I switched back to the Q300s and it feels... I don't know, lifeless. The 'energy' I get from the S2s just isn't there. It doesn't even feel as open and airy anymore, probably because I have a new perspective on it all. Hell, the separation on the instruments is better on the S2s as well, even though the Q300s are supposed to excel in orchestrals.

I brought my mother in and had her listen to both as well (as she wouldn't have any bias) and without me giving my opinions she said pretty much the same as well, wasn't impressed at all with the Q300s after hearing the S2s.

That's not to say the Q300s is bad at all, just when compared to a newer speaker with newer technology, it definitely falls behind.
Interesting. The new 600 series is definitely much improved with many changes including the new tweeter and cabinet (and a few other changes). Years ago when comparing the 685S1 to the Q300 I came to the conclusion that the Q300 was the winner by some margin. With the new S2 that gap has been closed if not surpassed.

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post #212 of 266 Old 11-30-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Interesting. The new 600 series is definitely much improved with many changes including the new tweeter and cabinet (and a few other changes). Years ago when comparing the 685S1 to the Q300 I came to the conclusion that the Q300 was the winner by some margin. With the new S2 that gap has been closed if not surpassed.
Yeah, everywhere I look for opinions people think the Q300 is superior to the 685 (not too much of a surprise, the 685s were a few years older than the Q300s when they came out, now the S2s are a few years older than the Q300s).

However, when I've asked dealers for their opinions they definitely rate the S2 as acoustically superior due to the stepped down decoupled tweeter technology and improved crossovers and so on.

I did get the impression from your audition as well that you preferred the S2s.
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post #213 of 266 Old 11-30-2015, 05:51 PM
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Yeah, everywhere I look for opinions people think the Q300 is superior to the 685 (not too much of a surprise, the 685s were a few years older than the Q300s when they came out, now the S2s are a few years older than the Q300s).

However, when I've asked dealers for their opinions they definitely rate the S2 as acoustically superior due to the stepped down decoupled tweeter technology and improved crossovers and so on.

I did get the impression from your audition as well that you preferred the S2s.
Yes but I would say that my audition of the 685S1 and Q300 was more objective since I had them at the same time. I haven't auditioned the 685S2 side by side with the Q300 so that's going by memory-not terribly accurate. That being said, I do appreciate the quality of both KEF and B&W.

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post #214 of 266 Old 11-30-2015, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Yes but I would say that my audition of the 685S1 and Q300 was more objective since I had them at the same time. I haven't auditioned the 685S2 side by side with the Q300 so that's going by memory-not terribly accurate. That being said, I do appreciate the quality of both KEF and B&W.
Ah, makes sense there.

I wasn't too sure of my opinion but when my mother who doesn't give a damn about quality audio confirmed it, it pretty much sealed the deal there (and of course when I hooked up the KEFs to let her listen to it I kind of felt underwhelmed with them too after a direct comparison on the same song).
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post #215 of 266 Old 12-06-2015, 06:51 PM
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Question Set Up Question for 683 S2s

I am enjoying my new Marantz 6009 and the B&Ws very much.
BW 683 S2
BW CM Center S2
Marantz SR6009
Oppo 103D (just bought it)
In this configuration, should I be able to adjust the center channel and make it louder?

I plan on buying a second BW 684 S2 to make my Rears.

Will I be able to get 5.1 even if I don't use a subwoofer?

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Hi All,
Went to Best Buy looking to put together the start of HT again. Here is where I was at before starting.
I had HK 310 with CSW 5.1 (still have these since 2004), They have been boxed for 3 years now.
Moved to new place (small) and ended up with Martin Logan sound bar and 300 Dynamo SW.
Now I want to go back to separate components in my new loft. 13 foot ceilings and a 24x32 room. I do a balance of movies and music.

Over the course of three days I worked with Magnolia very hard. I had 10% off coupon, negotiated for lower prices and had no sale tax (it also helped that the area GM was there and helped.....ended up with
BW 683 S2 (one new, one floor model) $730 for the pair
BW 684 S2 (one floor model. Will look for the match online used or new and make them my rears) $50
BW CM Center S2 (Floor Model) $270
Marantz SR6009 (Open Box) $675 (I did A/B comparisons of the Marantz with Denon and Pioneer Elite to music and DVD BR 'Master and Commander' with the 683 and the CMC2. WOW!!!!!
Total $1725

SOLD Martin Logan SB and SW for $700

Total $1025. I am very happy.

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post #216 of 266 Old 12-07-2015, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immarocco View Post
I am enjoying my new Marantz 6009 and the B&Ws very much.
BW 683 S2
BW CM Center S2
Marantz SR6009
Oppo 103D (just bought it)
In this configuration, should I be able to adjust the center channel and make it louder?

I plan on buying a second BW 684 S2 to make my Rears.

Will I be able to get 5.1 even if I don't use a subwoofer?

Thanks Rocco
Get 685s2 for rears and SVS PBorSB 2000 subwoofers and you be fine.
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post #217 of 266 Old 12-07-2015, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immarocco View Post
I am enjoying my new Marantz 6009 and the B&Ws very much.
BW 683 S2
BW CM Center S2
Marantz SR6009
Oppo 103D (just bought it)
In this configuration, should I be able to adjust the center channel and make it louder?

I plan on buying a second BW 684 S2 to make my Rears.

Will I be able to get 5.1 even if I don't use a subwoofer?
Yes - you should be able to adjust the center channel levels. Go to "Setup" on the Marantz and go into manual setup and levels.

http://manuals.marantz.com/SR6009/EU...SYgutxflzm.php

I believe you can change levels on individual speakers without messing up the equalization and everything done by Audyssey.

You can alternately turn up the "dialogue level" under Audio -> Dialogue Level adjust

http://manuals.marantz.com/SR6009/EU...SYksvwgfsr.php

684s should make awesome rears!

You can't technically get 5.1 without a subwoofer, because the ".1" is technically sent directly to a subwoofer which you won't have. But, if you are okay with the bass output of your main speakers, the receiver will put the ".1" or subwoofer part of the tracks into your other speakers when it does bass management, provided they have low enough crossovers. You'll want to set your 683s to "full range" or "large" if there is no sub. Audyssey may do that automatically for you if it doesn't detect a sub. At least I think that's how it works

I'd get a subwoofer though

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post #218 of 266 Old 12-08-2015, 06:07 AM
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Nice to hear from you and thanks for the message. I have gone into settings, NV audio level adjustment is grayed out. I think get the exact message but it's something that I think get the exact message but it something that goes like this "the current configuration does not support this option".
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post #219 of 266 Old 12-09-2015, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Immarocco View Post
Nice to hear from you and thanks for the message. I have gone into settings, NV audio level adjustment is grayed out. I think get the exact message but it's something that I think get the exact message but it something that goes like this "the current configuration does not support this option".
Well poop. I don't know much more about the SR6009. I have the SR7009 so I'm sure it is similar. That's a really great error message - as a system engineer, I would yell at my team if our systems ever put out an error message that unhelpful :-). It's always - WHAT configuration?

I'll try to find the settings on my system and give you the exact key presses...

Press Setup -> Audio -> Dialog Level Adjust -> Turn on, then turn up or down by dB.

To unghost it, you have to have a media source actually playing that has center channel content. For me I put in a BluRay and started playing it, and that option unghosted.

For the center channel speaker itself:

Press Setup -> Speakers -> Manual Setup -> Levels -> Test Tone Start, then navigate to the center channel and turn it up.

You may be able to get more insight at the owner's thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...iscussion.html

At least I think that's the owner's thread. The x009 series never got quite proper owners threads here (where they say *OFFICIAL* in them) for some reason.

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post #220 of 266 Old 12-10-2015, 02:38 AM
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Hello guys fairly new here im on the fence about the 685 s2 vs the focal 806v. The BW as it stands cost 150$ more where i live. Does the sound quality justify spending an extra 150?
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post #221 of 266 Old 12-12-2015, 09:27 AM
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Hello guys fairly new here im on the fence about the 685 s2 vs the focal 806v. The BW as it stands cost 150$ more where i live. Does the sound quality justify spending an extra 150?
I have pair Jamo stands for 60 dollars they work for me.
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post #222 of 266 Old 12-13-2015, 03:22 AM
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I have pair Jamo stands for 60 dollars they work for me.
Im talking about sound quality lol
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post #223 of 266 Old 12-13-2015, 05:05 AM
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Im talking about sound quality lol
Sound Quality is good.
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post #224 of 266 Old 12-15-2015, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello guys fairly new here im on the fence about the 685 s2 vs the focal 806v. The BW as it stands cost 150$ more where i live. Does the sound quality justify spending an extra 150?
Tough with speakers to say - they are very subjective. I am loving my 683s. I haven't had much time lately, but spending time with them has been really fun and revealing for my music collection, for the few things I have listened to.

I haven't ever heard any focals. One thing that helped me make a decision was to read reviews on all the speakers I was looking at, and people's comments.

I started to realized that certain people were like me, and noticed what they liked, and figured I might like the same things (warm sound, neutral, forward, relaxed, etc.) Such subjective terms, but then after some auditioning and lots of reading, started to realize what I would probably like. I'm a warm, relaxed sound person. Some people want to be invigorated by their sound systems, want to be excited and get the adrenaline going. I want mine to coddle me and put me to sleep with my favorite music, making it feel like I'm there but not forcing it on me.

I'm just rambling, but that's an idea of what I mean. Very subjective.

So read some reviews on both, read this forum, read threads on the focals, and do an audition. Whatever helps you decide the fastest

If you listen and can't tell the difference, or love them both, pick the one that saves you money! But you could also do an in-home audition and spend some good time. Sometimes spending more time helps a person to decide.

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post #225 of 266 Old 12-30-2015, 04:42 AM
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Hi Guys, will a receiver with 100watts per channel can drive the BW 683 s2, 685 s2 and htm61 s2?? Im planning to get this speaker but my receiver is only a entry level of yamaha with 100 watts / channel. Thanks
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post #226 of 266 Old 12-30-2015, 04:53 AM
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I think I'm getting soon 5x 685s for my HT setup and I currently have Denon X2200W. Is it powerful enough for these or should I get 686s as rears and save 200 Euros?
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post #227 of 266 Old 12-30-2015, 07:18 PM
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Hi Guys, will a receiver with 100watts per channel can drive the BW 683 s2, 685 s2 and htm61 s2?? Im planning to get this speaker but my receiver is only a entry level of yamaha with 100 watts / channel. Thanks
Get something better 2050 or 3050 Yahama if you are using these speakers they need power to move them.
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post #228 of 266 Old 12-30-2015, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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post #229 of 266 Old 12-30-2015, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been experimenting with finding the best soundstage for my B&W 683 S2 speakers.

The manual actually says to try toe-in so the tweeter lines cross just in front of you. That seems to work well for me. But another review said they got the best sound stage when they pointed them straight at listening position then toed them _out_ a little bit, so kind of the opposite.

It seems that toeing them in from pointing straight at the listener widens the sound stage some, so it is more forgiving. But I don't know if it is has the most accurate sound stage that way.

Also, it seems that when my ears are a few inches above the tweeters the soundstage seems a little richer and deeper.

Anyone have any suggestions? This is all so new to me, but fun!

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post #230 of 266 Old 01-15-2016, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
I've been experimenting with finding the best soundstage for my B&W 683 S2 speakers.

The manual actually says to try toe-in so the tweeter lines cross just in front of you. That seems to work well for me. But another review said they got the best sound stage when they pointed them straight at listening position then toed them _out_ a little bit, so kind of the opposite.

It seems that toeing them in from pointing straight at the listener widens the sound stage some, so it is more forgiving. But I don't know if it is has the most accurate sound stage that way.

Also, it seems that when my ears are a few inches above the tweeters the soundstage seems a little richer and deeper.

Anyone have any suggestions? This is all so new to me, but fun!
Hey, danielrg,

Hope you've been able to get some hours in and are enjoying your 683 S2s. I haven't experimented with placement yet. I have my speakers aiming straight ahead. I'm going to be reconfiguring the room a bit in the next couple of months and then I'll work with toe-in. I have read on more than one occasion that about five degrees toe-in (from firing straight ahead) works very well them.

I work from home and the system is on 14-16 hours a day with music playing most of the time. The speakers started opening up nicely around the 50 hour mark and really started blooming after the 100 hour mark. Even with many hours on them they continue to improve. I am extremely happy that I went with the 683 S2.

Well, thought I'd drop in here and tell you how it's going. If you get a chance let me know how they are treating you.

Cheers,

Scott
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post #231 of 266 Old 01-15-2016, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
I've been experimenting with finding the best soundstage for my B&W 683 S2 speakers.

The manual actually says to try toe-in so the tweeter lines cross just in front of you. That seems to work well for me. But another review said they got the best sound stage when they pointed them straight at listening position then toed them _out_ a little bit, so kind of the opposite.

It seems that toeing them in from pointing straight at the listener widens the sound stage some, so it is more forgiving. But I don't know if it is has the most accurate sound stage that way.

Also, it seems that when my ears are a few inches above the tweeters the soundstage seems a little richer and deeper.

Anyone have any suggestions? This is all so new to me, but fun!
I would think some toe-in would provide the best sound but that depends on listening distance and your room.

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post #232 of 266 Old 01-15-2016, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, danielrg,

Hope you've been able to get some hours in and are enjoying your 683 S2s. I haven't experimented with placement yet. I have my speakers aiming straight ahead. I'm going to be reconfiguring the room a bit in the next couple of months and then I'll work with toe-in. I have read on more than one occasion that about five degrees toe-in (from firing straight ahead) works very well them.

I work from home and the system is on 14-16 hours a day with music playing most of the time. The speakers started opening up nicely around the 50 hour mark and really started blooming after the 100 hour mark. Even with many hours on them they continue to improve. I am extremely happy that I went with the 683 S2.

Well, thought I'd drop in here and tell you how it's going. If you get a chance let me know how they are treating you.
I haven't experimented as much as I'd like with music. I keep watching movies... They do keep getting better with time, even for the movies, the clarity of the center channel (HTM61) is seeming to improve. It's funny upstairs with our "normal" TV I often turn on subtitles, but down in the theater room, I never turn them on, even when listening quietly.

The few times I have played music over them, like when I was testing DLNA streaming, I just sat and listened and something like 30 minutes went by just listening to music before I kind of snapped out of it.
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post #233 of 266 Old 01-16-2016, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I would think some toe-in would provide the best sound but that depends on listening distance and your room.
I think one of the reasons I might like the stronger toe-in right now is due to the speakers' proximity to my walls in my narrow room, and I haven't treated the walls yet. So turning them in reduces first reflections which might be affecting the sound stage when they are facing more forward.

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post #234 of 266 Old 01-16-2016, 10:37 AM
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I think one of the reasons I might like the stronger toe-in right now is due to the speakers' proximity to my walls in my narrow room, and I haven't treated the walls yet. So turning them in reduces first reflections which might be affecting the sound stage when they are facing more forward.
Makes sense. How close are they to the rear walls?

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post #235 of 266 Old 01-16-2016, 10:38 AM
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Love my 683S2's. Taking off the stands looking for spike recommendations. They're going into cabinets.
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post #236 of 266 Old 01-17-2016, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Makes sense. How close are they to the rear walls?
The room is 10.5' wide, they are pretty close to the side walls so they don't obscure the screen (about 11 inches). They are about 2 feet from the screen wall in the theater room.

I decided to toe them back out some, and moved the listening position back about 5 feet, and re-ran Audyssey on my AVR. The sound stage seemed really good. So I did sort of a blind test with my wife.

I had her come down and listen to some music with a strong center vocal. I switched between three modes - pure direct stereo, stereo 2.1 w/Audyssey, and Dolby Surround with wide center mode turned on. I would then randomly switch between modes, sometimes even keeping them the same. I asked her to tell me when the center was on and when it wasn't.

She got it wrong more than a few times, and finally said, "Am I supposed to be able to tell or something?" I had a wide grin as I said I was thrilled that should couldn't. And it was great, the music soundstage sounded very similar in all three modes. That was kind of fun. So I enjoyed another hour of music today on the speakers (683S2).

I was wondering if the effect of side reflections was more pronounced when I was closer to the speakers and that was messing up the sound stage. If you look at the time the 1st reflections take to reach the listening position vs the speakers, the further back in the room, the less of a time differential between direct and 1st reflection since the speakers are close to the walls. That may have improved the imaging some as I moved the listening position back.

But I don't really know...

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post #237 of 266 Old 03-08-2016, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a review on the 685 S2

http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/bw_...test_lores.pdf

I saved if off if the link goes away and would be happy to send to you in future.

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post #238 of 266 Old 06-13-2016, 07:52 AM
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Hi,

I knew this was going to happen. I just bought CM 10's and they are wonderful.

I have 2x 686 for surround and a HTM 62 for center.

I really think the 686's do a pretty good job (no doubt the 685's would be better) but I really hear how deficient the HTM 62's are.

I guess my question is this: IS the 1300 CM center going to be 5 fold better than a HTM-61?

Anther consideration. The early htm 61 will fit into my cabinet space. The HTM 61 S2 is about 3" wider, and the CM center is too tall. Both would have to sit on top of the cabinet and may require me raising the height of the Samsung display.

Alternative: What about a single 685 for center?
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post #239 of 266 Old 06-13-2016, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 View Post
Hi,

I knew this was going to happen. I just bought CM 10's and they are wonderful.

I have 2x 686 for surround and a HTM 62 for center.

I really think the 686's do a pretty good job (no doubt the 685's would be better) but I really hear how deficient the HTM 62's are.

I guess my question is this: IS the 1300 CM center going to be 5 fold better than a HTM-61?

Anther consideration. The early htm 61 will fit into my cabinet space. The HTM 61 S2 is about 3" wider, and the CM center is too tall. Both would have to sit on top of the cabinet and may require me raising the height of the Samsung display.

Alternative: What about a single 685 for center?
The CMC2 S2 is worth it if you can make it work. If you use a book shelf speaker for center it would be even taller. Also, if you were to choose that route a CM6 or CM5 S2 might be a better option. I used a CMC2 S1 with the CM10s for a while and it wasn't a bad fit if not perfect. You might be able to find one used for a good price.

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post #240 of 266 Old 06-23-2016, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 View Post
I really think the 686's do a pretty good job (no doubt the 685's would be better) but I really hear how deficient the HTM 62's are.

Would you mind sharing some more details on how exactly you found the HTM62 deficient? Am very interested in your thoughts as I am thinking of buying this center for my two 685's.
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