Do I need to replace my Monitor60s? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 06-13-2014, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Do I need to replace my Monitor60s?

Setup: Pioneer 1022k, 2 Polk Monitor 60s, Polk CS2, random 10" sub

So I bought a couple Monitor60s for my "home theater" a year ago and I'm still having issues hearing dialogue. I live in a small condo about 8' away from the tv and I end up cranking up the volume to hear the normal parts (speech) and then playing with it throughout movies because action scenes are excessively loud. I had a CS1 and upgraded to a CS2 but still have issues. I've also tried setting the channel level of my fronts lower than my center to accentuate it. Finally, I've run auto calibration, played with small/large settings, and have a proper XO (80hz).

Do I just need to pick better speakers for home theater? Any calibration suggestions that could help with this issue? The sound just doesn't have the range needed for speech to stand out without cranking up the volume to unacceptable levels. Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 10 Old 06-13-2014, 11:55 PM
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I dont think its your speakers necessarily. I have monitor 60's and a CS1 ran off an older denon 1611 in my bedroom and rarely turn the volume up beyond -25 or so, its is usually in the -30db range and have never experienced dialog intelligibility problems regardless of source - dish, blu-ray, dvd, ps3, netflix etc...all sound fine when it comes to dialog and action FX blending together. I use the denons audysey calibration and run the 60's full range (no sub) and an 80Hz crossover on the center which is set to small. the polk monitor series are far from high end - but they can sound pretty good when set up right - in my experience.

I am not very familiar with pioneer receivers so i cant be much help in diagnosing settings, but how is your center channel placed?....a picture is worth a thousand words here.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #3 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 12:05 AM
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post a pic of your setup. It sounds more like bad room acoustics or some type of reflection.
my 65t were pretty good.
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post #4 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift02 View Post
Setup: Pioneer 1022k, 2 Polk Monitor 60s, Polk CS2, random 10" sub

So I bought a couple Monitor60s for my "home theater" a year ago and I'm still having issues hearing dialogue. I live in a small condo about 8' away from the tv and I end up cranking up the volume to hear the normal parts (speech) and then playing with it throughout movies because action scenes are excessively loud. I had a CS1 and upgraded to a CS2 but still have issues. I've also tried setting the channel level of my fronts lower than my center to accentuate it. Finally, I've run auto calibration, played with small/large settings, and have a proper XO (80hz).

Do I just need to pick better speakers for home theater? Any calibration suggestions that could help with this issue? The sound just doesn't have the range needed for speech to stand out without cranking up the volume to unacceptable levels. Thanks in advance!
Check your receiver's user manual for "night mode" or something similar. This will compress the dynamic range of the sound so that the difference between dialog and action is lessened.
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post #5 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 07:33 AM
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Go through you receiver's settings and tell us what they are please. What levels you receiver set the speakers at.

You might want to consider turning the Center Channel level up 3db. That might help.

In reality I think you positioning may be wrong so please post some photos of your setup.
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post #6 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post
Go through you receiver's settings and tell us what they are please. What levels you receiver set the speakers at.

You might want to consider turning the Center Channel level up 3db. That might help.

In reality I think you positioning may be wrong so please post some photos of your setup.
Exactly. OP, don't lower your FL-FR. Instead raise the CC until you hear dialogue better. I agree the issue is not the speakers.

I use the CS2 in a challenging location. It sits directly BEHIND my 58" plasma up against the rear wall and to counter the muffled sound firing directly forward, I actually place it on it's back and fire it straight up to a slightly lowered ceiling area due to ducting run. It calibrates fine and I only bump it a few dB to enhance.

Last edited by ClarkeBar; 06-14-2014 at 08:20 AM.
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post #7 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift02 View Post
Setup: Pioneer 1022k, 2 Polk Monitor 60s, Polk CS2, random 10" sub

So I bought a couple Monitor60s for my "home theater" a year ago and I'm still having issues hearing dialogue. I live in a small condo about 8' away from the tv and I end up cranking up the volume to hear the normal parts (speech) and then playing with it throughout movies because action scenes are excessively loud. I had a CS1 and upgraded to a CS2 but still have issues. I've also tried setting the channel level of my fronts lower than my center to accentuate it. Finally, I've run auto calibration, played with small/large settings, and have a proper XO (80hz).

Do I just need to pick better speakers for home theater? Any calibration suggestions that could help with this issue? The sound just doesn't have the range needed for speech to stand out without cranking up the volume to unacceptable levels. Thanks in advance!

IMO you need a better center speaker. The CS1 and CS2 are not the best,

The CSiA4 might solve your problem.

What I would do, however, is get a pair of the Pioneer FS52 speakers, and the C22 center speaker.

The prices are excellent, and IMO they are much better-sounding speakers than the ones you have.

Last edited by commsysman; 06-14-2014 at 08:38 AM.
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post #8 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift02 View Post
Setup: Pioneer 1022k, 2 Polk Monitor 60s, Polk CS2, random 10" sub

So I bought a couple Monitor60s for my "home theater" a year ago and I'm still having issues hearing dialogue. I live in a small condo about 8' away from the tv and I end up cranking up the volume to hear the normal parts (speech) and then playing with it throughout movies because action scenes are excessively loud. I had a CS1 and upgraded to a CS2 but still have issues. I've also tried setting the channel level of my fronts lower than my center to accentuate it. Finally, I've run auto calibration, played with small/large settings, and have a proper XO (80hz).

Do I just need to pick better speakers for home theater? Any calibration suggestions that could help with this issue? The sound just doesn't have the range needed for speech to stand out without cranking up the volume to unacceptable levels. Thanks in advance!

IMO you need a better center speaker. The CS1 and CS2 are not the best,

The CSiA4 might solve your problem.

What I would do, however, is get a pair of the Pioneer FS52 speakers, and the C22 center speaker.

The prices are excellent, and IMO they are much better-sounding speakers than the ones you have.
That won't solve the issue, OP. The CSi A4 doesn't even match the Monitor 60's

Additionally if you are already struggling with dialogue the Pioneers being more inefficient and having a "warmer" sound will only further hurt dialogue

Last edited by crazyrob425; 06-14-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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post #9 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the help so far! I've attached a pic of my living room (taken from the front door/wall). Below are my settings, note that I adjusted the channel level to the above suggestion (boost Center).

Channel level:
L: 0
C: 2.5
R: 0
Sw: -5

Speaker Distance:
L: 8' (small)
C: 8' (small)
R: 8' (small)
Sw: 12' (XO 80)

Settings:
EQ: on (I've tried turning it off and can post a pic of the autocal EQ
Swave: on
Phase c+: 6ms
S rtrv: off
Dialogue: off (I assume this is the "night mode" setting. It sounds terrible IMO)
Fixed PCM: off
Drc: auto
Lfe: 0
Sacs gain: 0
A delay: off
Effect: 50

Edit: one more thing, I usually use "expanded" with TV/computer sources (force center channel with 2ch) and "movie" with bluray/Plex/Netflix movies
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Last edited by adrift02; 06-14-2014 at 12:04 PM.
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post #10 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrift02 View Post
Thanks for all of the help so far! I've attached a pic of my living room (taken from the front door/wall). Below are my settings, note that I adjusted the channel level to the above suggestion (boost Center).

Channel level:
L: 0
C: 2.5
R: 0
Sw: -5

Speaker Distance:
L: 8' (small)
C: 8' (small)
R: 8' (small)
Sw: 12' (XO 80)

Settings:
EQ: on (I've tried turning it off and can post a pic of the autocal EQ
Swave: on
Phase c+: 6ms
S rtrv: off
Dialogue: off (I assume this is the "night mode" setting. It sounds terrible IMO)
Fixed PCM: off
Drc: auto
Lfe: 0
Sacs gain: 0
A delay: off
Effect: 50

Edit: one more thing, I usually use "expanded" with TV/computer sources (force center channel with 2ch) and "movie" with bluray/Plex/Netflix movies
OK what I see in your pic is a lot of reflections. I would pull the center speaker to where it is on the edge of your stand, maybe even hanging off a half inch or so. Angle it to ear height as necessary. Next for experimentation purposes move the coffee table along with all the junk out of the room and redo your auto-cal. Then play with your avrs adjustments to see if you can dial it in to your preference.

Also your mains look too close together, try spacing them apart more and playing with toe in angles. The mains also look like they are right up against the wall, try pulling them into the room more. My 60's are about 14 inches from the wall. Lastly, I know room layouts cause many compromises with placement, but ideally you shouldn't have one speaker against a wall and another against a window...but if that's what you got to work with then I understand.
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