MartinLogan Motion Owners Thread - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 1249 Old 10-08-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I may as well give you my sub chart now for "budget" subs that aren't boom boxes.
That's awesome, thanks! First decision is whether to go for 2 subs immediately or just 1. Been wanting to pull the trigger on a HSU sub for years. Thinking the VTF-3 MK5 alone could get me by for a while (and keep the wife off my back about having 2 big squares on our floor).
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post #1052 of 1249 Old 10-08-2018, 01:35 PM
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That's awesome, thanks! First decision is whether to go for 2 subs immediately or just 1. Been wanting to pull the trigger on a HSU sub for years. Thinking the VTF-3 MK5 alone could get me by for a while (and keep the wife off my back about having 2 big squares on our floor).
I'd be tempted at that price to get two Monoprice 10" sub to be honest.

While the Monolith is still large the VTF3 (a great sub of course) is 60 percent larger!

500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

600watts =17w24h22d= 85 lbs 15" [17hz] $895 HSU VTF3 MK5, (extension from Sound & Vision)

Geoff A. J., California
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post #1053 of 1249 Old 10-08-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I'd be tempted at that price to get two Monoprice 10" sub to be honest.

While the Monolith is still large the VTF3 (a great sub of course) is 60 percent larger!

500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

600watts =17w24h22d= 85 lbs 15" [17hz] $895 HSU VTF3 MK5, (extension from Sound & Vision)
That makes sense, especially with the odd shape and open floorplan of my room.
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post #1054 of 1249 Old 10-15-2018, 07:44 AM
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Upgrade Motion 8 to motion 30 or 50XT

Currently have motion 40 LR and motion 8 cc. I have a hearing loss and wear aids which does a good job of helping to understand dialog. However I have always felt the Motion 8 was not the best cc choice. The room where we watch tv is large, 23x20 with 12ft ceilings and open at the back to the kitchen. Avr is denon x4000. getting ready to upgrade to Denon x4400 or x6400.

I have been able to listen to the 50xt's at BB and they sounded great. Have not been able to listen to the 30's. Just wondering if the 30's would offer a good choice or should i just go for it and get the 50xt's?
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post #1055 of 1249 Old 10-15-2018, 01:39 PM
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Looking forward to your impressions.

You got a great deal on the C2 and the LX16s are fairly priced unlike their original msrp which was $798/pair.
Still breaking in the LX16s but they are visually stunning. Major WAF in my house.

The C2 completely dwarfs my the HTD Level 2 center and outperforms my older Paradigm. Still have more break in to go, but the 3 fronts complement perfectly and I haven't run the Audyssey yet. The dispersion also gave me more placement options which has worked well.

Final stop will be a new sub. Using an old deal-of-the-day 10" JBL and it complements the LX16s well. When I add a 500W sub, it will fill everything in well.

+1 to the commentors on these forums!
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post #1056 of 1249 Old 10-15-2018, 01:43 PM
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Still breaking in the LX16s but they are visually stunning. Major WAF in my house.

The C2 completely dwarfs my the HTD Level 2 center and outperforms my older Paradigm. Still have more break in to go, but the 3 fronts complement perfectly and I haven't run the Audyssey yet. The dispersion also gave me more placement options which has worked well.

Final stop will be a new sub. Using an old deal-of-the-day 10" JBL and it complements the LX16s well. When I add a 500W sub, it will fill everything in well.

+1 to the commentors on these forums!
Congratulations.

For those considering an "outlet" buy at Crutchfield like you did for your C2, how was the appearance.

Like new or a bit beat up?

Geoff A. J., California
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post #1057 of 1249 Old 10-15-2018, 01:59 PM
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Congratulations.

For those considering an "outlet" buy at Crutchfield like you did for your C2, how was the appearance.

Like new or a bit beat up?
Nearly perfect as far as I can tell. The red rubber speaker wire cover was missing but no scratches, dents, coloring, etc.
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post #1058 of 1249 Old 10-18-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gpershall View Post
Currently have motion 40 LR and motion 8 cc. I have a hearing loss and wear aids which does a good job of helping to understand dialog. However I have always felt the Motion 8 was not the best cc choice. The room where we watch tv is large, 23x20 with 12ft ceilings and open at the back to the kitchen. Avr is denon x4000. getting ready to upgrade to Denon x4400 or x6400.

I have been able to listen to the 50xt's at BB and they sounded great. Have not been able to listen to the 30's. Just wondering if the 30's would offer a good choice or should i just go for it and get the 50xt's?
If you can swing the 50XT, I'd get it. Then you'll never have to wonder what you are missing with the 30.
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post #1059 of 1249 Old 10-18-2018, 01:45 PM
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I recently re-vamped my Motion speaker layout. I originally built my theater before Dolby Atmos was even a twinkle in Dolby's eye. Hence my surround speakers were mounted too high on the wall. I revised the surround speaker heights to enable Dolby Atmos audio with height speakers. Dropping the surrounds 24" was a lot harder than it sounds - due to drywall repair. Took two evenings after work ! Plus another evening to replace my X7200 with a new X8500, and install two new height speakers ( oh attic, how I hate you ) ! I thought my theater sounded great before, but now in it's somewhat new 9.4.4 configuration, it's even better !
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post #1060 of 1249 Old 10-21-2018, 08:12 AM
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I just bought a pair of Motion 4i's for my sound room surround speakers, while I am saving my quarters for the ESL X pair.

Mains are Klipsch RP280F and an RP450C center. Seems to me that I can use them for elevation speakers once I have the four big dogs? Thoughts?
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post #1061 of 1249 Old 10-21-2018, 09:57 AM
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If you can swing the 50XT, I'd get it. Then you'll never have to wonder what you are missing with the 30.
50xt coming in Wed.
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post #1062 of 1249 Old 10-23-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Ratledge View Post
I just bought a pair of Motion 4i's for my sound room surround speakers, while I am saving my quarters for the ESL X pair.

Mains are Klipsch RP280F and an RP450C center. Seems to me that I can use them for elevation speakers once I have the four big dogs? Thoughts?
I'm using them for front and rear height speakers. They work great. With angled ceilings I needed to use a surface mounted speaker anyway. So far so good !
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post #1063 of 1249 Old 11-01-2018, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Ratledge View Post
I just bought a pair of Motion 4i's for my sound room surround speakers, while I am saving my quarters for the ESL X pair.

Mains are Klipsch RP280F and an RP450C center. Seems to me that I can use them for elevation speakers once I have the four... Thoughts?
I'm using them for front and rear height speakers. They work great. With angled ceilings I needed to use a surface mounted speaker anyway. So far so good !
Excellent! Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear.
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post #1064 of 1249 Old 11-02-2018, 05:32 AM
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Excellent! Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear.
I use my Motion 2's for front/rear heights in a 5.2.4 setup.

Anthem MRX-720,Outlaw 7500 5ch amp, B&K ST 202 amp
Oppo BDP-103, Sony XBR-65X930D, Rotel RP-855, Phillips BDP-7501
Paradigm Studio 100 Fronts, Martin Logan Motion LX16 rears,Martin Logan Motion 2's
Paradigm Studio cc-590 Center, Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer, DefTech Supercube 4000
Roku Ultra, DIRECTV 4K Genie HR-54 DVR, C61K-700, OPPO Sonica DAC, Amazon Fire TV
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post #1065 of 1249 Old 11-21-2018, 01:35 PM
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I went from the 40s to the 60s they sounded quite different to my ears, the 40s are much brighter but the 60s have a much wider and fuller stage IMO.
Hi. I’ve been considering buying either the motion 40s or 60s. I already own a pair of Ethos in a different location. Whenever I’ve heard the motion speakers(just a few times, not extensively) I’ve been very impressed with the very detailed sound throughout the audio spectrum, pretty impressive. They seem to always sound better than the more costly B&W or other box speakers at BB, that stuff sounds like mud by comparison. It’s interesting to note that the 60s as well as the monitors have the bigger tweeter which results in much worse vertical dispersion. Typically the smaller the tweeter the better, much less cancellation, might explain why the 60s don’t sound as “bright” as the 40s, very well may be less extended high end of larger tweeter due to cancellation, not a good thing. But there is no denying that the 60s can move way more air than the 40s, bigger woofers and cabinets, a trade off. ML should have used the smaller tweeter in the 60s as well, imo. Anyway looking to hear some feedback from those who have compared the motion 40 and 60s to other speakers and hear your thoughts. Also has anyone compared the motions to any ML els speakers? Thoughts there? Thanks. Regards. Ned.
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post #1066 of 1249 Old 11-23-2018, 07:17 AM
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Where is everyone? No help or thoughts from anyone involved with ML Motion speakers. Come on guys. Thanks. Regards. Ned.
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post #1067 of 1249 Old 11-23-2018, 09:53 AM
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I'd be tempted at that price to get two Monoprice 10" sub to be honest.

While the Monolith is still large the VTF3 (a great sub of course) is 60 percent larger! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]

500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

600watts =17w24h22d= 85 lbs 15" [17hz] $895 HSU VTF3 MK5, (extension from Sound & Vision)
Been tweaking the new stuff for a month and finally jumped on the Black Friday special getting 2 SVS PB12-NSD. Glad I waited.
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post #1068 of 1249 Old 11-23-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ngerstman View Post
Hi. I’ve been considering buying either the motion 40s or 60s. I already own a pair of Ethos in a different location. Whenever I’ve heard the motion speakers(just a few times, not extensively) I’ve been very impressed with the very detailed sound throughout the audio spectrum, pretty impressive. They seem to always sound better than the more costly B&W or other box speakers at BB, that stuff sounds like mud by comparison. It’s interesting to note that the 60s as well as the monitors have the bigger tweeter which results in much worse vertical dispersion. Typically the smaller the tweeter the better, much less cancellation, might explain why the 60s don’t sound as “bright” as the 40s, very well may be less extended high end of larger tweeter due to cancellation, not a good thing. But there is no denying that the 60s can move way more air than the 40s, bigger woofers and cabinets, a trade off. ML should have used the smaller tweeter in the 60s as well, imo. Anyway looking to hear some feedback from those who have compared the motion 40 and 60s to other speakers and hear your thoughts. Also has anyone compared the motions to any ML els speakers? Thoughts there? Thanks. Regards. Ned.
I've had the 40's for 5 years now. I haven't heard the 60's much to compare, but in my theater, the 40's put the tweeter at my ear level, where I think the 60's would be too tall. Also, my seating is just under 10' from the front sound stage - the 40's are plenty loud enough. And I have 4 subwoofers, so I don't need the 40's to have more bass, since I send everything below 60 Hz to the subs. Now for 2 channel music, or maybe a large home theater room the 60's would be great. But I've been super happy with my Motion 40's. And plan to keep them for another 5+ years.
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post #1069 of 1249 Old 11-23-2018, 11:06 AM
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Where is everyone? No help or thoughts from anyone involved with ML Motion speakers. Come on guys. Thanks. Regards. Ned.
It's Thanksgiving week. Everyone is eating good food and drinking good wine ( well, I am at least ). Or they are out in the Black Friday shopping madness !
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post #1070 of 1249 Old 11-23-2018, 12:09 PM
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ML 10s to 40s

Is it worth it to go from ML 10s to 40s
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post #1071 of 1249 Old 11-29-2018, 01:26 PM
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Is it worth it to go from ML 10s to 40s
Can't say I've ever heard the 10's, but the Motion 40's are very nice speakers.
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post #1072 of 1249 Old 11-29-2018, 01:46 PM
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Is it worth it to go from ML 10s to 40s
Something tells me that the openness of the ML 10's would be something special for some types of music and of course if you are able to position them correctly in the room.

ML 40's are more of a regular speakers and might work better for most people.
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post #1073 of 1249 Old 11-29-2018, 02:03 PM
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post #1074 of 1249 Old 11-30-2018, 10:23 AM
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I've been thinking of upgrading my Motion 30 for the Motion 50XT to pair with my Motion 40's. Is anyone running the same setup or is the 50XT overkill to pair with the Motion 40's?

TV: LG OLED65B6P
A/V Amp: Denon AVR-X6500H
Speakers: Towers = Martin Logan Motion 40's (bi-amp), Center = Martin Logan Motion 50XT (bi-amp), Sub = Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Speaker Wires: KnuKonceptz Kord Kable 10 Gauge Copper Speaker
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post #1075 of 1249 Old 12-04-2018, 09:25 AM
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I am trying to setup my home threater ( 16*12 room), please share your thoughts on below setup. restriction on budget, so could not upgrade middle & back speakers to ElectroMotion IW 6.5 Inch - In Walls.


2- Martin Logan 40 Towers- ( Front Left & Right)
Martin Logan Motion 50 ( Center)
4- ML 65 Rectangle - In Walls ( Left & Right middle , Left & Right Rear)
Sub - SVS PB 2000
Receiver - Denon 4400
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post #1076 of 1249 Old 12-09-2018, 12:42 PM
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Just bought a new home and I’m trying to come up with an alternative to using a sound bar for audio with a 75 inch Sony 900F TV.
I’m contemplating creating a three channel system using a pair of Motion 40s for L/R and either a 30 or 50XT for a center channel.

I already own a newly restored McIntosh 2105 vintage stereo power amp that I could use to power the floor standers. I’m thinking I’d pick up an AVR to use as a processor and to power the center channel, such as a Yamaha 1080 or 2080. I’m not concerned with creating a full blown surround system at this time, just a simple, decent sound system for music and movies.

This would fit into a 28x19’ great room and kitchen with a 14’ vaulted ceiling and hardwood flooring.

Are the 40s enough speaker or should I go for the 60s? What about the amp? It’s rated at 105 wpc and is a pretty hefty piece. Is that enough juice for either set of those speakers? I previously used it to power a pair of Vandersteens without much problem.
Also, any thoughts on an AVR and using it to power the center channel?

I realize I could pick up a top-flight sound bar for $1,500-$2,000 but I think it’d sound pretty thin in that sized room. Plus, I also want to be able to play my vinyl.

I’m open to suggestions.
Thanks!
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post #1077 of 1249 Old 12-09-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocks991s View Post
Just bought a new home and I’m trying to come up with an alternative to using a sound bar for audio with a 75 inch Sony 900F TV.
I’m contemplating creating a three channel system using a pair of Motion 40s for L/R and either a 30 or 50XT for a center channel.

I already own a newly restored McIntosh 2105 vintage stereo power amp that I could use to power the floor standers. I’m thinking I’d pick up an AVR to use as a processor and to power the center channel, such as a Yamaha 1080 or 2080. I’m not concerned with creating a full blown surround system at this time, just a simple, decent sound system for music and movies.

This would fit into a 28x19’ great room and kitchen with a 14’ vaulted ceiling and hardwood flooring.

Are the 40s enough speaker or should I go for the 60s? What about the amp? It’s rated at 105 wpc and is a pretty hefty piece. Is that enough juice for either set of those speakers? I previously used it to power a pair of Vandersteens without much problem.
Also, any thoughts on an AVR and using it to power the center channel?

I realize I could pick up a top-flight sound bar for $1,500-$2,000 but I think it’d sound pretty thin in that sized room. Plus, I also want to be able to play my vinyl.

I’m open to suggestions.
Thanks!
The McIntosh will have zero issues powering any Motion speaker.

If you are getting an AVR have you considered bookshelves and subwoofer?

Motion 40s are $1800/pr, 35XT bookshelves are a steal in comparison at $1080/pair at the moment from Crutchfield.

That leaves you a ton of money to buy a quality sub...assuming you are in the US.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #1078 of 1249 Old 12-09-2018, 08:37 PM
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The McIntosh will have zero issues powering any Motion speaker.

If you are getting an AVR have you considered bookshelves and subwoofer?

Motion 40s are $1800/pr, 35XT bookshelves are a steal in comparison at $1080/pair at the moment from Crutchfield.

That leaves you a ton of money to buy a quality sub...assuming you are in the US.
Thanks! Could be a nice alternative.
Price difference not that much of a concern but I’m intrigued with your suggestion.

Any speaker stand recommendations?
Which ML center channel speaker would go best with the 35XTs?

Would still like to use the MC2105 amp to power the 35XT and use an AVR to power the center channel. I’d also pick up a nice powered sub to round out what I guess would now be a 3.1 system for home theatre use.
How do you think a pair of 35XTs and a good sub would compare to a pair of 40 or 60XT towers in stereo mode?

Time for some more research.
By the way, I’m located in Delaware.
Thanks again for your reply.
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post #1079 of 1249 Old 12-10-2018, 10:36 AM
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Thanks! Could be a nice alternative.
Price difference not that much of a concern but I’m intrigued with your suggestion.

Any speaker stand recommendations?
Which ML center channel speaker would go best with the 35XTs?

Would still like to use the MC2105 amp to power the 35XT and use an AVR to power the center channel. I’d also pick up a nice powered sub to round out what I guess would now be a 3.1 system for home theatre use.
How do you think a pair of 35XTs and a good sub would compare to a pair of 40 or 60XT towers in stereo mode?

Time for some more research.
By the way, I’m located in Delaware.
Thanks again for your reply.
Sound & Vision tested and measured the Motion 40, -3db point of 48hz, the Motion 30 center 86hz, the 60XT at 42hz, the 35XT at 69hz and the Motion 50XT at 64hz.

Subwoofers they have measured that have a -3db point of 20hz or below start at $500 so even with an XT system you gain at least 20hz in extension using a sub/stand mount option.

One might argue by looking at the charts that the 35XT measure at least as well as the 60XT.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures

I prefer sealed servo subs despite the fact that they need far more power to achieve the same sound pressure level as their ported counterpart with its much bigger cabinet.

Make sure that when considering subs you make a cardboard cutout to understand just how big it will be because some people who order even 12" ported subs are shocked at their size when they hit the door.

For example here is the size of a 12" sealed servo Rhythmik F12G, (around $1000 assuming you are in the US): 15-3/4"(W) x 15-3/4" (H )x 17"(D) - (18-1/2" D with grille)

Here is the ported version with same size amp and 12" driver, the ported servo LVX12: 17"(W) x 20-1/2" (H )x 22"(D) - (24" D with grille and control knobs)

Here is a comparison using their information of the differences in output at 20hz...note that using two smaller sealed 12" subs will be approximately equal to one larger 15" ported sub.

"At 20 Hz, our subs (Rhythmik) vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12."

Note: Two identical subs add +6db

+3db = 1.4 times sound pressure loudness
+6db = twice sound pressure loudness
+10db = 3.2 times sound pressure loudness

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

DIFFERENCE PORTED VERSIONS VS SEALED VERSIONS IN TERMS OF LOUDNESS

L12: -1.0db 12" 300watt sealed
F12: 0.0db 12" 400watt sealed
F15HP: +5.5db 15" 600watt sealed
F18: +7.5db 18" 900watt sealed



LV12R: +2.5db 12" 300watt ported +3.5 db difference
LVX12: +4db 12" 400watt ported +4 db difference
FV15HP: +11db 15" 600watt ported +5.5 db difference
FV18: +14db 18" 900watt ported +6.5 db difference

This is more information on what you gain when you use a crossover to let the subwoofer handle the lowest octave; it applies if you use it, as I do, with a tower speaker as well:

Win 1. Since you are now not putting in 20 Hertz 80 Hertz into the mains you are not using up the available low frequency cone movement with bass, so the low frequency cone in your main speaker is able to play its higher frequencies (up to it’s crossover point) much more cleanly. You get an apparent 6dB or more dynamic range. You can play your system louder, and also with less compression distortion in the low frequency driver when you are having that Saturday night dance party and you’re playing urban b

Win 2. Since you are not putting bass into that same driver you are not Doppler modulating everything between 80 and 600, or whatever the next crossover point is. This means cleaner mids. By far.

Win 3. You are not sucking current out of your main power amp at low frequencies, so there is more current reserve to play those highs louder.

Win 4. Since the cones are not moving as far at the low frequencies the driver itself is not generating as much back EMF therefore the damping factor and all of its issues are greatly negated. And you do not need to run silver plated cold water pipes to your mains as speaker wires because there is far less current draw by the speakers.

Win 5. Frequencies below 80 are now not causing transient intermodulation distortion with the higher frequencies (and vice versa) in your power amp. Cleaner still.

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer

Geoff A. J., California
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post #1080 of 1249 Old 12-10-2018, 03:07 PM
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Geoff....thanks.
I built a couple of systems through Best Buy since they are local to me.
Here’s what I came up with:

System 1
2 Motion 40’s L/R: $1800
1 Motion 50XT center: $855
1 Yamaha RX A1080 to drive center channel: $1200
1 Rega Planar 2 turntable:$675
1 Panamax power conditioner/surge protector: $430
McIntosh 2105 power amp to drive Motion 40s: $0
Total: $4960

System 2
2 Motion 35XT L/R: $1100
1 Motion 50XT center: $855
1 Yamaha RX A 1080: $1200
1 SVS 500 watt 12” sealed sub: $800
1 Rega Planar 2 turntable: $675
1 Panamax surge protector: $430
Pair of B&W STAV 24 speaker stands: $150
MC 2105 power a person: $0
Total: $5210

Price-wise, the two systems are about a wash. I suppose I could knock off $300 on system 2 by using a third 35XT for the center channel.

Sonically, system 2 might be a bit better, particularly when it comes to bass response.
The SVS sub has a pretty small footprint: 14”x14”x14” so placement shouldn’t be too much of a problem, plus it’s sealed.

I’m going to Best Buy to at least listen to floor standers vs the bookshelves and sub. I’m thinking the latter just might come out on top.
Any thoughts? Any changes to the above?
Thanks
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