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TomC1315 07-07-2014 03:54 PM

MartinLogan Motion Owners Thread
 
5 Attachment(s)
During the first few months of 2013, I assembled a wonderful ML Motion 40/30/LX16 5.1 set up that has left me feeling quite satisfied ( even with the announcement earlier this year that ML will soon be introducing a big brother to the Motion 40 :-)

With that being said ... there's a great opportunity for anyone interested in the Motion 15 bookshelf speakers to buy its predecessor - the LX16.

The LX16 is essentially the same as the Motion 15 ... the changes were only cosmetic.

Amazon has the LX16 at some great prices:

NEW in dark cherry for $240 per speaker (13 available )

USED in drk cherry for $412 per pair ( 1 pair available )

NEW in gloss black for $299 per speaker (6 available )

When I first was introduced to ML, my son and I listened to a pair of Motion 15s next to a pair of Motion 4s ... the difference was quite clear - the Motion 15s sounded fuller and much more substantial. I knew immediately that I'd be buying James the Motion 15s.

Before I bought my Motion 30, I used one of my LX16s as a center channel ( for a 3.1 set up ) and was pleased with how it performed - knowing, though, that this would be my final/"rest of my life" system, I upgrade to the Motion 30 and put the LX16s in their proper place, completing a wonderfully cohesive, entirely satisfying 5.1 system.

Last fall, I was able to get my hands on a used LX16 on eBay ( $210 ) for my son to use as a center channel, complimenting his Motion 15s.

This spring we upgraded our subs to a pair of SVS PC12+s ( one for me, one for him :-)

And just last week, I pulled the trigger on a pair of these LX16s to replace my DefTech SM45s in the exercise room ( my ML Dynamo700 will pair up nicely in a 2.1 )


Bottom line then, is that anyone looking for a nice pair of bookshelf speakers, or a modest but quite capable center channel, would be doing themselves a favor by considering these LX16s while they are available.

Other current prices on Amazon:

Motion 15 ... $399 in black / $424 in dark cherry

Motion 4 ... $249 // Motion 2 ... $199 // Motion 6 and Motion 8 center channels ... $299 & $369

The LX16s, while they last, appear to be quite a bargain compared to any of the above ML alternatives.

Finally, is there a better looking set of speakers out there than the Motion 15/20/30/40s ? They sound terrific and look great too :-)
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TomC1315 07-15-2014 06:34 PM

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The new, larger Motion series is due for release next month. Images and specs are available now on MartinLogan's website. In addition to the Motion 40's big brother, the Motion 60XT, there is a matching center channel (the Motion 50XT) as well as bookshelf speakers (the Motion 35XTs).

All three models are significantly more substantial than what is available now, and cost somewhere around 40% to 50% more.

When looking over the specs for these new speakers, I thought I noticed a misprint concerning the dispersion figures ... The Motion 2, 4, 6, 8, 15, 20, 30, and 40 speakers all have a dispersion figure of 80degrees x 80degrees ... however, the new 60XT, 50XT, and 35XT all are listed as 80degrees x 30degrees. So I called ML.
The sales rep checked this out, and replied that these were, in fact, correct figures ... the reason for this is due to the significantly larger FoldedMotionTweeter on the new offerings. The new, larger FMTweeters provide even more clarity and accuracy.
BTW, all the electrostats in the ML line also have a 30degree horizontal dispersion ... so there, FWIW :-)

Leaving well enough alone, ML has not tinkered with the beautiful design of the Motion series speakers.

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mantaraydesign 08-16-2014 11:06 AM

Anyone know if there is a review for the new 60XT model?

OneStepAhead 09-07-2014 06:04 AM

I'm looking at upgrading my 40s and 30 to the new 60XT and 50XT. Can anyone recommend a vendor?

ace5000 09-10-2014 04:34 PM

Hello Guys

I just pick-up a pair of Motion 15s. I can't quite swing a 30 right now. What center would be better, a Motion 8 or another 15 (LX16).

Thanks.

TomC1315 09-10-2014 06:51 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ace5000 (Post 27308018)
Hello Guys

I just pick-up a pair of Motion 15s. I can't quite swing a 30 right now. What center would be better, a Motion 8 or another 15 (LX16).

Thanks.

By all means, I'd say get an LX16 or a Motion 15.

When my son and I were first looking at (his first and new for me) speakers in Dec. 2012, we listened to a Motion 4 and a Motion 15 ... without a second thought, I knew instantly that I'd be buying James a pair of Motion 15s.
While they share the same FoldedMotonTweeter, the rest of the units are quite different: the Motion 15 sounds and feels significantly more substantial.

Motion 15 (12lbs.) Motion 4 (6 lbs.) Motion 8 (8.5 lbs.)

And of course, the Motion 8 shares the same FMTweeter as well. I can only assume that the difference between the Motion 8 and the Motion 15 would still be significant.

While researching center channels a year and a half ago, I came across the topic/issue of "lobing" ... a circumstance where the speaker's two woofers interfere with each other, resulting in a very limited sweet spot for listening.

The folks at MartinLogan reassured me that this wasn't an issue with the Motion 30 center channel, because they designed the speaker with one woofer crossing over at 400hz and the other woofer at 2,600hz ... problem solved :-)

The Motion 8 has only one crossover point (at 3,000hz) ... hopefully lobing might not be as much of an issue with this speaker because it's curved a little bit(?) ... hopefully.

I used one of my LX16s as a center channel for a few months before getting the Motion 30 and it performed nicely ... I bought my son an LX16 last winter and he's using it as a center channel in his 3.1 rig with fine results.

Attachment 256698

Here's a vote for an LX16 or a Motion 15 for your center channel ... identical speakers would provide a seamless soundstage as well :-)

Wishing you well with your decision and looking forward to an update when you're ready.

TomC1315 09-10-2014 07:01 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27206890)
I'm looking at upgrading my 40s and 30 to the new 60XT and 50XT. Can anyone recommend a vendor?

The MartinLogan website has a "Find A Dealer" section on it's website ... it lists University Audio Shop on South Park St in Madison Wisconsin (608-284-0001)

And oh, by the way ... those Motion XTs look formidable - I'm jealous :-)

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TomC1315 09-10-2014 07:06 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mantaraydesign (Post 26616193)
Anyone know if there is a review for the new 60XT model?

None yet ... just previews ... hopefully soon though :-)

Attachment 256738

ace5000 09-10-2014 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC1315 (Post 27311386)
By all means, I'd say get an LX16 or a Motion 15.


I used one of my LX16s as a center channel for a few months before getting the Motion 30 and it performed nicely ... I bought my son an LX16 last winter and he's using it as a center channel in his 3.1 rig with fine results.

Tom,

Does your 30 sound much better than another 15 for a center?

Thanks!

TomC1315 09-11-2014 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace5000 (Post 27312010)
Tom,

Does your 30 sound much better than another 15 for a center?

Thanks!

No, it's certainly not a night and day difference ... the way I see it/hear it, the extra woofer has a crossover of 400 hz. Therefore, I assume the musical/HT content between 400hz on down to where the sub takes over has an extra speaker.

I could have been content with the LX16, but figured at my age, this ML system was going to be my "rest of my life system", so I went ahead and bought the Motion 30.

But IMO, the LX16 would have been fine had I not been able to afford the Motion 30 ... timbre matched with the, in your case, the two Motion 15s that you have, another Motion 15 or an LX16 will be great!

OneStepAhead 09-11-2014 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC1315 (Post 27311714)
The MartinLogan website has a "Find A Dealer" section on it's website ... it lists University Audio Shop on South Park St in Madison Wisconsin (608-284-0001)

And oh, by the way ... those Motion XTs look formidable - I'm jealous :-)

Attachment 256730

Thanks, I did know about that feature already. I was hoping maybe we had a vendor that sold below MAP pricing, similar to how Cleveland Plasma sells their TVs at way below retail to avsforum members. Unfortunately CP has a very limited selection of speakers, but they are the place to get TVs from no question. I also just bought a Denon x5200w from them well below retail, highly recommend those guys. Chris at CP is very active on these forums as well.

I ended up taking a gamble and buying the XT's from Audiophile Liquidator. The discount was pretty huge, over 30% on the high gloss black cherrywood modes, or about 27% on the piano black. Yeah I won't have a warranty, but a warranty isn't worth 30% to me either. Maybe I'm just lucky, but in my two decades of buying audio gear I've never had to use a warranty. In fact, I can't think of anytime I've had to use the warranty for anything. I've had stuff fail, but it was always within the first 30 days which means I could just return it. I paid with PayPal so my risk level is fairly low I believe. I'll report back my experience with them once the shipment arrives.

ace5000 09-11-2014 02:51 PM

[QUOTE=TomC1315;27319474

But IMO, the LX16 would have been fine had I not been able to afford the Motion 30 ... timbre matched with the, in your case, the two Motion 15s that you have, another Motion 15 or an LX16 will be great![/QUOTE]

I have 3 Cherry LX16s on the way. Thank you Sir!

TomC1315 09-11-2014 03:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ace5000 (Post 27335522)
I have 3 Cherry LX16s on the way. Thank you Sir!

You're quite welcome Sir! My pleasure :-)

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ace5000 09-12-2014 09:55 AM

I'm going to need some speaker stands for the mains. Has anyone worked on the proper height for the 15s?

newmen 09-22-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27321258)
Thanks, I did know about that feature already. I was hoping maybe we had a vendor that sold below MAP pricing, similar to how Cleveland Plasma sells their TVs at way below retail to avsforum members. Unfortunately CP has a very limited selection of speakers, but they are the place to get TVs from no question. I also just bought a Denon x5200w from them well below retail, highly recommend those guys. Chris at CP is very active on these forums as well.

I ended up taking a gamble and buying the XT's from Audiophile Liquidator. The discount was pretty huge, over 30% on the high gloss black cherrywood modes, or about 27% on the piano black. Yeah I won't have a warranty, but a warranty isn't worth 30% to me either. Maybe I'm just lucky, but in my two decades of buying audio gear I've never had to use a warranty. In fact, I can't think of anytime I've had to use the warranty for anything. I've had stuff fail, but it was always within the first 30 days which means I could just return it. I paid with PayPal so my risk level is fairly low I believe. I'll report back my experience with them once the shipment arrives.

Hi OneStep,

I'm in the same exact situation. The XTs are pretty pricey, so while googling I found a couple of sellers that sell these at lower prices (like 20-30% off), but I'm worried about the reliability of what I get (could they be selling seconds?) more than the warranty part.

Have you received your speakers yet? Please, can you comment on your experience?

Thanks!

OneStepAhead 09-26-2014 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmen (Post 27635417)
Hi OneStep,

I'm in the same exact situation. The XTs are pretty pricey, so while googling I found a couple of sellers that sell these at lower prices (like 20-30% off), but I'm worried about the reliability of what I get (could they be selling seconds?) more than the warranty part.

Have you received your speakers yet? Please, can you comment on your experience?

Thanks!

I've been running a Motion 40/30/FX setup for the past year and been happy with them for HT use. Music they were a bit lacking, but unfortunately after I hit 30 a few years back it's becoming a rare day that I listen to music in my home. We decided to add a second livingroom to our home which gave me a chance to migrate my current ML setup to our new secondary living room and buy new equipment for our primary.

I bought the Motion 60XT's, 50XT and FX2's and a Seaton Submersive HP+ Subwoofer all will be running through a Denon X5200W. Ordered the ML's from audiophile liquidator, which was my first time dealing with the company. Ordering gray market isn't for the faint of heart, but they did arrive as advertised. Their customer service is a bit unorthodox as they call you from blocked numbers, reply to emails from smart phones, take up to 14 business days to actually ship the orders (plus transit time, my order shipped in 10 business days). They also typically open the boxes before sending merchandise to "inspect them". You also may not be able to get warranty service from ML if they ask you for a receipt. So the trade off for all that is their rock bottom pricing. I got the five speaker ML set for about 25% off MAP/MSRP pricing. To me, keeping the warranty on speakers is maybe worth a 5 to 10 percent premium at best. I reached out to several authorized dealers but not a one would budge from MSRP on these. Audiophile liquidator also sells the black cherrywood and piano black for the same price, where as I noticed almost all of the authorized vendors add about 5-10% for the cherry wood on the XT series. The black cherrywood is a show stopper, if you can make it work with your decor I say go for it.

I'm still in the process of setting up the new room, right now I hooked up the 60s and 50 to my old yamaha AVR so I could get a more apples to apples comparison and let them play overnight to start the break in process (hope my neighbors didn't mind!). My initial impression is these speakers are a huge (literally) improvement over the 40/30 combo. First they are the size of some grown adults I know (granted short ones!) but second the sound is as expected, much more full range with crystal clear highs from the larger motion tweeters. They are already creating a very impressive soundstage despite not being broken in and no EQing being done. I spent several hours listening to the blues music channel via Charter Cable in Dolby digital last night just because I was amazed by what I was hearing. I just demoed the Montis and B&W 804's at Magnolia earlier in the day, and while the Montis is obviously a very different speaker, these certainly don't sound several classes below it either. Its hard to compare them to the 804s since it was two different rooms with different music and levels, but they likely aren't far apart. I'll post an update in the coming days, but my initial impressions of the new XT line are extremely positive! Excited to get the Submersive HP+ hooked up to them today!

Craig Peer 09-26-2014 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27206890)
I'm looking at upgrading my 40s and 30 to the new 60XT and 50XT. Can anyone recommend a vendor?


Give us a call at AV Science - we are Martin Logan dealers. And I am a Motion series speaker owner too! :)

Mike Garrett 09-26-2014 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmen (Post 27635417)
Hi OneStep,

I'm in the same exact situation. The XTs are pretty pricey, so while googling I found a couple of sellers that sell these at lower prices (like 20-30% off), but I'm worried about the reliability of what I get (could they be selling seconds?) more than the warranty part.

Have you received your speakers yet? Please, can you comment on your experience?

Thanks!

Probably are not authorized Martin Logan dealers, but we are. :)
I would be worried about what happens when/if something arrives damaged. That happens quite often. :(

OneStepAhead 09-27-2014 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 (Post 27744153)
Probably are not authorized Martin Logan dealers, but we are. :)
I would be worried about what happens when/if something arrives damaged. That happens quite often. :(

They are not, which is why they do not have to respect MAP and MSRP. It's a gamble no doubt, but for me it worked out (this time). I did try emailing at least 3 authorized retailers and all would not go below MSRP. Sorry, but on an Internet sale I have a hard time paying that. I also don't feel good about supporting dealers that abide by these policies as I consider it to essentially be price fixing. Dealers should be able to sell for whatever price they see fit, and the fact that ML waives the warranty over our heads is totally unethical. But hey, I'm a business owner too so I can understand wanting to keep your margins. What I don't understand is why they even have MAP. Unless ML is selling direct to consumer and doesn't want their vendors undercutting them, which they dont appear to do. I don't doubt you can get an authorized dealer to go below MSRP on MLs, especially on older stock, but this time around I didn't find any willing to do that.

What audiophile liquidators claims to do is match the manufacturer warranty themselves. Will they really do it? Who knows. I think it's unlikely the 60XT would get damaged considering how ML packages them, but if they did the packages were insured just like any other retailer would likely do. You also have paypal and chargebacks to protect you. But yes, in the event of a customer service issue Id rather be dealing with an authorized dealer any day of the week, but its also not worth an extra 25% to me given UPS has under a 1% damage/loss rate (I used to work there).

Quick update about the XT line. Seriously huge huge upgrade from the 40/30 combo. Not even close to each other in my room. If you are on the fence, go with the XT! The Submersive HP+ also kills my old Rytmik FV15HP. But that was to be expected, I thought the XT upgrade would be marginal and it's actually substantial. Going to be a fun weekend messing with them and my new Denon x5200w. I'm running 5.1 + Bi-Amp to the fronts.

mogrub 09-27-2014 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27731018)
... I hooked up the 60s and 50 to my old yamaha AVR so I could get a more apples to apples comparison and ... initial impression is these speakers are a huge (literally) improvement over the 40/30 combo ... much more full range with crystal clear highs from the larger motion tweeters. They are already creating a very impressive soundstage despite not being broken in and no EQing being done ... I was amazed by what I was hearing.

That part was a fun read. Glad they sound good, and glad you're excited about em! Great new speakers you got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27731018)
Ordering gray market isn't for the faint of heart ... Their customer service is a bit unorthodox as they call you from blocked numbers, reply to emails from smart phones, take up to 14 business days to actually ship the orders ... They also typically open the boxes before sending merchandise to "inspect them".

There's only one reason for a blocked number. It's so you can't call back.

No legitimate retailer opens new merchandise to "inspect it", but if your speakers sound great right now, that's great news.

TomC1315 09-27-2014 04:52 PM

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I'm so glad ML decided to offer these XTs ... the Motion Series are some beautiful looking / sounding speakers, and to beef up the 40s, 30, and 15s suggests to us that the Motion endeavor was a success for ML.

After spending close to 7 grand over the past 22 months getting to where I am, I'm tapped out ...

... but I'm happy and excited for any and everyone who's able to get there mitts on these new XTs :-)

Attachment 282961

OneStepAhead 09-30-2014 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogrub (Post 27761161)
That part was a fun read. Glad they sound good, and glad you're excited about em! Great new speakers you got.



There's only one reason for a blocked number. It's so you can't call back.

No legitimate retailer opens new merchandise to "inspect it", but if your speakers sound great right now, that's great news.

I agree its shady, but I see many of the gray market sellers advertise that they open the box. Did they really open it or did a prior customer? I don't know, but everything inside looked new and given how new the XT series is Id be surprised if there were many customer returned sets available. But like I said, it's a trade off. Shady experience for a great price. As always YMMV. A week in and these speakers keep getting better and better. The Submersive HP+ was a worthy upgrade from the Rtyhmik too. Audyssey kept telling me to turn it down during calibration! I think it's on the very first or second tick on the volume setting, so I have tons of headroom. It also set all my XT's to -5db. Might be due to the increased sensitive of the XT's, as they are 94db/2.83v, my old 40s were 92db.

Blacklightning 09-30-2014 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneStepAhead (Post 27758842)
Quick update about the XT line. Seriously huge huge upgrade from the 40/30 combo. Not even close to each other in my room. If you are on the fence, go with the XT! The Submersive HP+ also kills my old Rytmik FV15HP.

Have you ran a lot of Music into both systems. I'm wondering how Music performsfor both the Motion upgrade and the Sub upgrade.

For HT Bigger is almost always better but for music things can get slowerand too in your face. Can the Submersive disappear into the XT's like theRythmik could.

There is always a trade off with upgrades it’s not always 1 sided/better inevery way.

Craig Peer 09-30-2014 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogrub (Post 27761161)
That part was a fun read. Glad they sound good, and glad you're excited about em! Great new speakers you got.



There's only one reason for a blocked number. It's so you can't call back.

No legitimate retailer opens new merchandise to "inspect it", but if your speakers sound great right now, that's great news.


We never open new merchandise at A V Science except on rare occasions - like to put a 3D emitter in with a projector - and only with the customers permission. And of course we do not have a blocked phone number - that's sort of strange !

SMO5007 11-05-2014 06:02 PM

I just pulled the trigger on the new ML motion 60xt and 50xt in black. Never own ML, coming from polk audio rti a9, now using Klipsch rf82iis; which I like, but want something more refined. The polks were too laid back for me. I had them for over 5 years, just not happy with them anymore. Klipsch are way better imo. I like the clarity, crispness of the klipsch but have ear fatigue after awhile. Hopefully these speakers are the answer. They look promising! What do you guys think?
Denon 4308 pre
Emotiva xpa 5 xpa2
Dual svs sb13 ultras

TomC1315 11-05-2014 07:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SMO5007 (Post 28821146)
I just pulled the trigger on the new ML motion 60xt and 50xt in black. Never own ML, coming from polk audio rti a9, now using Klipsch rf82iis; which I like, but want something more refined. The polks were too laid back for me. I had them for over 5 years, just not happy with them anymore. Klipsch are way better imo. I like the clarity, crispness of the klipsch but have ear fatigue after awhile. Hopefully these speakers are the answer. They look promising! What do you guys think?
Denon 4308 pre
Emotiva xpa 5 xpa2
Dual svs sb13 ultras

I can't imagine you won't be happy with your new L/C/R speakers, powered by the Emotive amps and supported with dual SVS ultras ... my somewhat similar set up sounds great - yours being a next level higher will be excellent :-)

Attachment 350962

SMO5007 11-05-2014 08:02 PM

Thanks Tomc for your response.
Im excited and nervous at the same time lol.
They are beautiful looking speakers...cant wait.

Slickman 11-06-2014 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanfoucas (Post 28828594)
While researching center channels a year and a half ago, I came across the topic/issue of "lobing" ... a circumstance where the speaker's two woofers interfere with each other, resulting in a very limited sweet spot for listening.http://u.9ab.com/NWr

Yes but on the Martin Logan centers the 2 woofers have different crossovers to combat that issue.

whmacs 12-08-2014 04:30 PM

Cross over setting for Motion 60XT and 50XT?
 
Hi Guys,
I recently purchased some Motion 60XT for the left and right and a 50XT centre channel. As these are a christmas / birthday present, I can't set them up just yet. I was wondering what crossover people would recommend for these speakers? The 60XT +/-3Db is 35Hz while the 50XT's is 50Hz. What crossover value to the sub do people use? I was thinking 60Hz for the 60XT and 80Hz for the 50XT?

Regards,
Stephen

TomC1315 12-08-2014 06:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by whmacs (Post 29727577)
Hi Guys,
I recently purchased some Motion 60XT for the left and right and a 50XT centre channel. As these are a christmas / birthday present, I can't set them up just yet. I was wondering what crossover people would recommend for these speakers? The 60XT +/-3Db is 35Hz while the 50XT's is 50Hz. What crossover value to the sub do people use? I was thinking 60Hz for the 60XT and 80Hz for the 50XT?

Regards,
Stephen

After crossing over my Motion 40s at 90Hz and sometimes 100 Hz for most of the past two years, I took it down to 60 Hz after running REW ... the graph indicated that this would be better than the higher crossover points.

Before getting my Emotive XPA-3, I'd never had considered the 60 Hz crossover, concerned that I might be taxing my Marantz SR5007 too much ... it can get pretty hot during the summer months.

In short, though, the new 60 Hz crossover sounds great, especially on my classical music Blurays & DVDs.

Not sure about the 50XT, but a detailed review on the Motion 40 / 30 / 15 system from Sound and Vision indicated that the -3dB point for the Motion 30 is at 86 Hz ... I therefore crossover the Motion 30 at 90 Hz (the -3dB point for the Motion 40 is 48 Hz).

Looking forward to reading detailed reviews on the XT system ... enjoy your new gear and congrats!

Attachment 409361


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