Infinity Reference owners thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 393 Old 04-24-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GLBright View Post
Finally got my R162-based system properly located and sounding sweet. It's on a short wall of a 10'6"x12' room. Although I still prefer my Infinity towers for large-scale symphonic and big band music, these R162s provide a level of resolution, openness, and sound stage that I've never experienced before at home. I honestly wonder how much better a pair of, say, Revel Concerta2 M16s would really be. This is now day three of rain so they've been getting a workout.

I know it's not a large room and obviously every room is different... but have you played around with speaker distance from one another? I found the R162's to provide better imaging further apart, closer to about 8 feet. And not as much toe-in.
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post #362 of 393 Old 04-24-2019, 09:51 AM
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Damaged Grille

Anyone have experience with getting a damaged grille swapped out with HK?

One of the grilles was damaged when I received my R252 towers last month. I've been going back and forth (slowly, not a priority for me) with HK support, and they are telling me they cannot locate just the part number of the grille and instead would like to ship en entire R252 tower to me. This seems ridiculous for several reasons:


  • How the hell can they not know the part number for one of their own speaker grilles?
  • What a colossal waste in shipping weight / expense / man power of the delivery company.
  • Shipping the speaker as is risks the grille arriving broken again.
  • I then have to deal with a scheduled date/time (allegedly) to have the speaker be picked up for return.
I am thinking of calling back when I have time this week to see if perhaps getting a different set of eyes on the case number changes the outcome.

Thanks for any insight.
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post #363 of 393 Old 04-24-2019, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiGoR View Post
I know it's not a large room and obviously every room is different... but have you played around with speaker distance from one another? I found the R162's to provide better imaging further apart, closer to about 8 feet. And not as much toe-in.
Sadly I'm stuck with 54" apart. Any more than that and either I won't be able to access my LPs or entry to the room will be affected. Plus, right now they are exactly centered in the room. It worries me enough that the one nearest the door might take a nasty fall. I sit close enough that there's still a wide soundstage. Wall-mounting the TV should improve the sound. I'll try decreasing the toe-in. Thanks for the suggestion. Given the R162s wide and even dispersion and my HF hearing loss, I probably won't miss anything. Still...my 70-year-old ears are very pleased.
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Last edited by GLBright; 04-24-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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post #364 of 393 Old 05-04-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RiGoR View Post
Anyone have experience with getting a damaged grille swapped out with HK?

One of the grilles was damaged when I received my R252 towers last month. I've been going back and forth (slowly, not a priority for me) with HK support, and they are telling me they cannot locate just the part number of the grille and instead would like to ship en entire R252 tower to me. This seems ridiculous for several reasons:


  • How the hell can they not know the part number for one of their own speaker grilles?
  • What a colossal waste in shipping weight / expense / man power of the delivery company.
  • Shipping the speaker as is risks the grille arriving broken again.
  • I then have to deal with a scheduled date/time (allegedly) to have the speaker be picked up for return.
I am thinking of calling back when I have time this week to see if perhaps getting a different set of eyes on the case number changes the outcome.

Thanks for any insight.
I have a multitude of experience with HK. (All Bad)
Your first mistake was "slowly" going back and forth with their support
(which is superfluously useless by the way)

You paid for a new product with zero damage. The laws of common sense dictate that upon receiving said damaged item (whether or not its part of a whole) so that they could have approved an RMA for an exchange. Simple.

Now, You'll need to:

(1) Make this a priority (if you want this remedied)
(2) Demand an RMA for a broken item and apologize for not putting your foot down thinking that they would simply resend a new grill. You need to realize that as big of a corporation as HK is...They just don't have replacement parts like that to ship out upon receipt of a damaged ____.
(3) Locate a drop off location nearest you and simply drop it off but not before getting a receipt.
(4) Receive new speaker with hopefully a new grill.

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post #365 of 393 Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RiGoR View Post
Did some casual listening last night on the new R253's, and left them running this morning while I went to work to help with some break-in time. In direct comparison to the R162's, first initial thoughts were hints of:
  • Clearer sound at slightly lesser volume
  • Clearer / more vibrant mids
As good as the R162s are (I haven't heard them but everybody raves about them), the R253 is simply a more sophisticated speaker from what I can tell.

For one thing, the R253 tweeter is crossed over at 1.8 kHz whereas the R162 tweeter is crossed over at 2.7 kHz. I don't know why the R162 tweeter is crossed over so much higher when it appears to be the same tweeter, but there you go. Supposedly one of the improvements with recent Revel speakers is a redesigned tweeter that allows them to cross it over at much lower frequencies than before ("coincidentally" also 1.8 kHz) so the R253 gets the same improvement as recent Revel speakers. Makes sense, since logically you want as much of the frequency range as possible to be covered by a single driver.

And second, the R253 has the flat midrange driver. The only reason I can think of for a flat driver (vs. a cone) is so that higher frequencies won't come off the edges of a cone at intersecting directions and collide and interfere with each other. So basically the flat driver solves the same problem as a phase plug, but possibly even better since it's not reflecting any pressure waves off the plug, the waves just come straight out.

But the fact that Infinity used a flat driver to cover frequencies as low as 1.8 kHz means that there's some sonic problem with using a cone to play those frequencies... which is what the R162 does. So the design of the R253 implies that there's a problem with the R162 that Infinity identified and went to some effort to solve.

Well, either that, or they just thought the flat driver looks cool?

EDIT: I should mention that, regardless of whether the drivers are flat or cones, a 3-way speaker should theoretically be able to play more clearly than a 2-way speaker. Reason being is that drivers perform best when they're in the middle of their back-and-forth travel range. So playing bass and midrange with one driver isn't optimal because the bass will move the cone towards its excursion limits and it will have to make finer midrange movements at the same time. If you have a driver dedicated to midrange, it can be more precise.

Last edited by motrek; 05-21-2019 at 06:31 PM.
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post #366 of 393 Old 05-21-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Youcan1 View Post
Is it my imagination or is the midrange on the RC263 not putting out a ton of sound? It seems like most of the sound is coming from the tweeter and bass drivers.
These midrange drivers are crossed over at 700 Hz and 1.8 kHz so they really don't play that much sound. So, no, it isn't your imagination!

Actually I doubt they even can play that much sound. Being flat, they can't be that strong (structurally), so they're probably incapable of playing lower frequencies. And the breakup modes on a flat surface like that are probably horrible so they probably can't play frequencies that are very high either.
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post #367 of 393 Old 05-21-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by spacevector View Post
Hello folks, I attempted a close mic measurement of the drivers in the R253 today. I had the grille on and just pressed the mic against the grille for the measured driver (mic centered on the driver). I did this to attempt to suss out the crossover frequencies. I am thinking 600Hz and 2kHz. Thoughts?
Yup, you pretty much nailed it. When I bought my R253s I asked technical support what the crossover frequencies were and they were nice enough to reply: 700 Hz and 1.8 kHz. (Same as the RC263 BTW.)
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post #368 of 393 Old 05-23-2019, 11:00 AM
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I purchased the RC263 and the surround speakers while they were on sale. Now I am wanting to upgrade my Bic floor speakers but the 253 isn't on sale. Any suggestions under $600 a pair that mesh well with these infinity's?
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post #369 of 393 Old 05-23-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by charden37 View Post
I purchased the RC263 and the surround speakers while they were on sale. Now I am wanting to upgrade my Bic floor speakers but the 253 isn't on sale. Any suggestions under $600 a pair that mesh well with these infinity's?
Probably just wait? These speakers seem to go on sale fairly often.

Maybe use the surrounds as your left and right speakers (assuming you have a subwoofer) until the next sale?
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post #370 of 393 Old 05-23-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by charden37 View Post
I purchased the RC263 and the surround speakers while they were on sale. Now I am wanting to upgrade my Bic floor speakers but the 253 isn't on sale. Any suggestions under $600 a pair that mesh well with these infinity's?
Probably just wait? These speakers seem to go on sale fairly often.

Maybe use the surrounds as your left and right speakers (assuming you have a subwoofer) until the next sale?
Well I already have towers, but they are BIC FT6 and they have horn tweeters. I was kinda wanting something that's around the same specs as the R253 since it seems those havent been on sale in a while.
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post #371 of 393 Old 05-23-2019, 05:11 PM
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Well I already have towers, but they are BIC FT6 and they have horn tweeters. I was kinda wanting something that's around the same specs as the R253 since it seems those havent been on sale in a while.
If you don't want to wait for a sale, I assume JBLs would pair well with Infinitys, considering they're made by the same parent company and the brands presumably share design goals, engineering resources, etc.

The Arena 180 looks pretty similar to the R253 in terms of dimensions and specifications:

https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Arena-180...gateway&sr=8-8

That being said, even if both speakers sound similar, the R253 seems much cooler to me. It's a 3-way speaker instead of a 2-way. It has ceramic-coated metal drivers instead of polycellulose (fancy paper). It has a cool flat midrange driver. It looks like it basically has the same tweeter waveguide and acoustic lens as current Revel models. It has a tapered cabinet instead of just rectangular. Yeah, if I were you, I would really just keep going with the BICs until the R253s go back on sale.
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post #372 of 393 Old 05-27-2019, 06:19 AM
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RS152 surrounds popping - with mutiple receivers tested

Sorry for the long post, but please bear with me...

I've got something that's been driving me crazy. My RS152 surrounds usually pop when I turn my stereo on.

My entire HT setup consists of Infinity's most recent Reference line. I've tested things with a Sony ZA1100ES and two different ZA810ES receivers. So if the receiver comes into play, it must be a Sony ES thing, although I've tested things with Atlantic Technology and Polk Audio speakers and things work perfectly.

I've tried lowering the volume before turning things off, muting, switching to every different setting I can think of, turning off all surround settings (leaving on the front stereo speakers only), plugged the receiver into different outlets, swapped out HDMI cables, unplugged the sub, w/ and w/o banana clips, swapped out speaker wire (14AWG for 12AWG), etc., and I'm out of options. No matter what I've tried, after the receiver has been off for several hours (usually overnight ), when I turn it on, the RS152s will pop - often quite loudly.

What's most perplexing to me is, if I unplug the speaker terminals from the back of the receiver after it's been off for several hours (but before turning the receiver on), and touch the leads together, the speaker will pop. None of my other Infinity speakers do this. It does not matter whether the RS152s were plugged into the front speaker terminals or the rear surround terminals, they often pop if I unplug and touch the leads together after hours of non-use.

Do these speakers have a capacitor or something in them? How do passive speakers store power the discharge it without being plugged into anything? One speaker in particular usually pops louder than the other, regardless of which receiver terminal it is plugged into. The fact that the speaker pops when I touch the leads together tells me the problem is indeed with the speaker and not the (multiple) receivers I've tried.

As near as I can tell, this only happens after being turned off for a while, usually overnight. The longer things are off, the louder, more energetic the pop.

Other than this pop, they sound great and I'm in love with my setup. BUT this pop is driving me crazy and because it's often loud and energetic, I'm concerned about long term implications with regards to damaging the speakers. The fact that they BOTH pop (albeit one usually louder than the other) has me concerned this might just be a design flaw and not indicative that I got a lemon.

I'm completely confused by the whole thing. Anybody else experience this? Ideas?
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post #373 of 393 Old 05-27-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charden37 View Post
I purchased the RC263 and the surround speakers while they were on sale. Now I am wanting to upgrade my Bic floor speakers but the 253 isn't on sale. Any suggestions under $600 a pair that mesh well with these infinity's?
If you were in Seattle I would let you purchase the pair I have that I am sending back. Probably cost too much to ship though.

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post #374 of 393 Old 05-27-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by davdwin View Post
...
Do these speakers have a capacitor or something in them? How do passive speakers store power the discharge it without being plugged into anything? One speaker in particular usually pops louder than the other, regardless of which receiver terminal it is plugged into. The fact that the speaker pops when I touch the leads together tells me the problem is indeed with the speaker and not the (multiple) receivers I've tried. ...
Yes, they absolutely do have a capacitor in them, almost certainly several, as part of the crossover network (i.e., the circuitry that separates the high frequencies from the low frequencies to send to the appropriate drivers).

By touching the cables together, you are short-circuiting the speaker. It's a bit of a surprise but not a huge surprise that you're hearing a pop at that point. You're probably causing the capacitors to discharge through the drivers. I can't imagine that's very good for them. It is a little surprising that this would happen after they've been turned off for hours though. The capacitors aren't especially big and it seems like they would have self-discharged by that point. But I don't think there's any other explanation.

That also means that your receiver must be short-circuiting the speakers when you turn it on. I don't have any other explanation for why the same sound would be made in both scenarios. Can you e.g. take the speakers over to a friend's house and test them with a different make/model of receiver?
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post #375 of 393 Old 05-27-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by charden37 View Post
Well I already have towers, but they are BIC FT6 and they have horn tweeters. I was kinda wanting something that's around the same specs as the R253 since it seems those havent been on sale in a while.
Looks like Harman is being a bit schizophrenic, the R253s aren't even on sale on Infinity's web site, but if you go to Google Shopping you can find an ad that points to the main Harman Audio web site and they have R253s available there for only $200 each:

https://www.harmanaudio.com/R253BK.h...YaAhfgEALw_wcB
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post #376 of 393 Old 05-28-2019, 08:43 AM
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The entire line appears to be on sale again. Pretty good value to be had here and that price for the RC263 in particular is fantastic.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/speakers...efn3=isSupport
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post #377 of 393 Old 06-04-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Yes, they absolutely do have a capacitor in them, almost certainly several, as part of the crossover network (i.e., the circuitry that separates the high frequencies from the low frequencies to send to the appropriate drivers).

By touching the cables together, you are short-circuiting the speaker. It's a bit of a surprise but not a huge surprise that you're hearing a pop at that point. You're probably causing the capacitors to discharge through the drivers. I can't imagine that's very good for them. It is a little surprising that this would happen after they've been turned off for hours though. The capacitors aren't especially big and it seems like they would have self-discharged by that point. But I don't think there's any other explanation.

That also means that your receiver must be short-circuiting the speakers when you turn it on. I don't have any other explanation for why the same sound would be made in both scenarios. Can you e.g. take the speakers over to a friend's house and test them with a different make/model of receiver?

Thanks. I've gotten in touch with Infinity customer service again so they're trying to troubleshoot the issue. Could be looking at an exchange. We'll see. I will say I've been pleased with their customer service as they've been fairly responsive.
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post #378 of 393 Old 06-05-2019, 05:22 PM
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I currently have x4 R162s I want to put in as surrounds, but there's currently a sale on the refurbished R152s (still 5 year warranty so what the heck) and I was thinking about downsizing because the R162s are quite big.

I've always felt like the R162s were overkill as surrounds but I got them at such a good price that I didn't even think about it originally.

Thoughts?
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post #379 of 393 Old 06-11-2019, 12:44 AM
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Quick question; is there a big difference between the rc252 and rc263 in sound? I feel like the addition of the mid-range driver in the larger one would help or at least sound different. I currently have R162 and planning on getting the rs152 surrounds sometime later.
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post #380 of 393 Old 06-12-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MobiusBP View Post
Quick question; is there a big difference between the rc252 and rc263 in sound? I feel like the addition of the mid-range driver in the larger one would help or at least sound different. I currently have R162 and planning on getting the rs152 surrounds sometime later.
I didn't think so in my smaller space listening at low to mid-level volumes. The RC263 is a little clearer with better dispersion. The bass didn't seem that much more prominent to me even though it has a much bigger enclosure and drivers, which was surprising. The difference between them grows the more you crank them up though. If you have a bigger space/like to listen loud I would go for the the RC263 for sure. In a smaller space the RC252 holds up just fine.
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post #381 of 393 Old 06-13-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MobiusBP View Post
Quick question; is there a big difference between the rc252 and rc263 in sound? I feel like the addition of the mid-range driver in the larger one would help or at least sound different. I currently have R162 and planning on getting the rs152 surrounds sometime later.
If you got the room and getting the rc263 on sale its a no brainer.
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post #382 of 393 Old 06-22-2019, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Youcan1 View Post
I didn't think so in my smaller space listening at low to mid-level volumes. The RC263 is a little clearer with better dispersion. The bass didn't seem that much more prominent to me even though it has a much bigger enclosure and drivers, which was surprising. The difference between them grows the more you crank them up though. If you have a bigger space/like to listen loud I would go for the the RC263 for sure. In a smaller space the RC252 holds up just fine.
Ah okay, thanks for the quick comparison!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylolow View Post
If you got the room and getting the rc263 on sale its a no brainer.

There was a recent sale for these but the larger one wasn't one of them :c Oh well, RC252 for about US 170 brand new isn't too bad.
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post #383 of 393 Old 06-22-2019, 05:27 AM
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Now for another question, has anyone taken these apart? I have a feeling the front black-chrome ring around the woofer can be removed and expose some screws. But want to confirm before i start prying things apart and ruin the soft wood.

I need to install some video shielding around the magnets, i still use an old HD CRT in the room where these speakers are going to go haha. I placed the center channel below the TV and turned it on and was horrified when everything turned blue and green; completely forgot that almost no speaker company today really cares about that kind of stuff since no one really uses these old TV's. Thankfully the built-in degauser managed to wrangle everything back into place.
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post #384 of 393 Old 06-22-2019, 12:43 PM
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Now for another question, has anyone taken these apart? I have a feeling the front black-chrome ring around the woofer can be removed and expose some screws. But want to confirm before i start prying things apart and ruin the soft wood.
It can. It's just a pressure fit using thinly spaced pieces of felt cloth around the metal ring.





Spoiler!
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post #385 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 01:22 AM
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It can. It's just a pressure fit using thinly spaced pieces of felt cloth around the metal ring.
Awesome! Thanks a bunch for the quick reply and pic.
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post #386 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 06:46 AM
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Awesome! Thanks a bunch for the quick reply and pic.
No problem. If UPS hadn't dropped the box I wouldn't have had the pics so props to their crappy shipping practices.

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post #387 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 04:44 PM
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No problem. If UPS hadn't dropped the box I wouldn't have had the pics so props to their crappy shipping practices.
Pretty good. Do you have more pics of the internals?

Crutchfield has some pretty good cutaway shots of the R263:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-C953Ol...ence-R263.html

Not sure how they got these pictures, this is the only place I could find them on the internet, but there you go. Looks pretty cool!
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post #388 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 05:22 PM
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I'm surprised - is the woofer only press-fit in there, no screws or anything fixing it to the enclosure?

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post #389 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I'm surprised - is the woofer only press-fit in there, no screws or anything fixing it to the enclosure?
No it's screwed in with wood screws. I weighed the driver at about 5 pounds and both speakers had their internal bass port tubes lodged loose as well as the worse damage to that one bookshelf. My guess is UPS dropped it from a height along its side causing enough force to fully dislodge the woofer from the MDF. The wood screws basically were stripped right out of the enclosure from the force of the drop. They aren't really supported side to side very well in the shipping box. Just top to bottom. Infinity took care of it though.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #390 of 393 Old 06-23-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Pretty good. Do you have more pics of the internals?



Crutchfield has some pretty good cutaway shots of the R263:



https://www.crutchfield.com/S-C953Ol...ence-R263.html



Not sure how they got these pictures, this is the only place I could find them on the internet, but there you go. Looks pretty cool!
Took photos mostly for the shipping damage . The one I took on my phone of the backside of the tweeter doesn't reveal much.
Spoiler!
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Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html

Last edited by Madmax67; 06-23-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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