Infinity Reference owners thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 436 Old 06-23-2019, 06:00 PM
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Wow, that must have been a serious drop.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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post #392 of 436 Old 06-23-2019, 06:14 PM
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Wow, that must have been a serious drop.
Agree. It's my only best guess because the boxes were in relatively good shape inside and out.

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post #393 of 436 Old 06-24-2019, 09:01 AM
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Took photos mostly for the shipping damage . The one I took on my phone of the backside of the tweeter doesn't reveal much.
Wow, 5 lbs for the driver? That sounds like a lot although I guess I don't know how much drivers usually weigh.

Looks like a huge amount of polyfill, nice.

Is it an optical illusion or is the port tapered and reverse-flared on the inside?? Just looked it up, Harman got a patent for a "constant pressure gradient" port design that looks like this:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7711134B2/en

They advertise it as a feature of Revel speakers. I guess the technology trickled down.

This seems pretty impressive to me. Makes me want to get a pair of R162s for my computer to see how they sound, even though I'm pretty happy with my Ascends.
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post #394 of 436 Old 07-28-2019, 11:38 PM
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I am going to start watching for the sales on these. The Reference are more neutral than Primus, right?

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post #395 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 03:51 AM
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I am going to start watching for the sales on these. The Reference are more neutral than Primus, right?
Years ago when I got a pair of Primus speakers for my daughter I was very impressed with the quality of sound they put out. I'm much more impressed with the Reference speakers I now have. I think they're better in every way. Knowing Infinity and Harman I would go so far as to call these a poor man's Revel Concerta3s. There are times when I prefer the sound of my R162s plus sub to that of my Infinity Interlude IL60s. That's saying a lot.

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post #396 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 06:58 AM
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Years ago when I got a pair of Primus speakers for my daughter I was very impressed with the quality of sound they put out. I'm much more impressed with the Reference speakers I now have. I think they're better in every way. Knowing Infinity and Harman I would go so far as to call these a poor man's Revel Concerta3s. There are times when I prefer the sound of my R162s plus sub to that of my Infinity Interlude IL60s. That's saying a lot.
FWIW I had the RC263 center for a time (liked it, but ended up keeping the Emotiva C2 instead) and it blended seamlessly with my Revel M16s from the Concerta 2 line. The R162 sure looks to be cut from the same cloth as the M16 and I've always been curious to grab a pair to compare them side by side.
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post #397 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 07:24 AM
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FWIW I had the RC263 center for a time (liked it, but ended up keeping the Emotiva C2 instead) and it blended seamlessly with my Revel M16s from the Concerta 2 line. The R162 sure looks to be cut from the same cloth as the M16 and I've always been curious to grab a pair to compare them side by side.
You preferred the C2 to the RC263? Was it just to match your main speakers or is it really better?
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post #398 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
FWIW I had the RC263 center for a time (liked it, but ended up keeping the Emotiva C2 instead) and it blended seamlessly with my Revel M16s from the Concerta 2 line. The R162 sure looks to be cut from the same cloth as the M16 and I've always been curious to grab a pair to compare them side by side.
Harmon has some refurbished r162's at 175 a pair. May be worth it to try out.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/speakers...SABEgIzRvD_BwE
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post #399 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 08:45 AM
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You preferred the C2 to the RC263? Was it just to match your main speakers or is it really better?
I'll start by saying they're both excellent speakers and at the $199 sale price the 263 is an incredible value, arguably one of the best out there. I don't hesitate to recommend it and no one should hesitate to buy it. If I had purchased the 263 first and didn't have the C2 already on-hand to do a direct comparison in my room I probably would have kept it and been fully satisfied. If the C2 is a 10 in my situation, I'd give the 263 a solid 8.5 or even 9 and at 1/2 the price I paid for the C2 it's arguably the better value overall.

To my ears the 263 was (is) an identical match to my M16s while the C2 is about 95% of the way there. At my usual listening volumes, which are perhaps a bit quieter than many listen, and in my setup the Emotiva is fuller, a little more dynamic, and 'wider sounding' than the 263 but the 263 noticeably opened up when the volume increased. Not quite as dynamic though at lower volumes even though I level-matched both it and the C2 with an SPL meter. I only sit ~7 feet from my setup so the Emotiva's wider overall footprint may be an advantage and contribute to the sonic 'width' and dynamics I mention since I don't need to push as much power to achieve my volume. In a larger room I can easily see how that gap might close.

Bottom line IMO and IME is that the 263 is a great speaker and provides unquestionable value at the sale price though is more 'one of the pack' at its usual price. The C2 just suits my tastes and room a little bit more.

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post #400 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 09:00 AM
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The Emotiva speakers have a bit of a U-shaped response, which is probably what you heard as "more dynamic at low volume". Remember, Audyssey's Dynamic EQ does the same thing

The downside is that the midrange is suppressed a little, which is a crucial area for sound effects. Another downside is that at high volume, it still has the same response, which can lead to a brighter tweeter. I haven't heard the Reference line, but measurements show it should be a little flatter by comparison.

These differences may matter less if you use room correction.
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post #401 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
The Emotiva speakers have a bit of a U-shaped response, which is probably what you heard as "more dynamic at low volume". Remember, Audyssey's Dynamic EQ does the same thing

The downside is that the midrange is suppressed a little, which is a crucial area for sound effects. Another downside is that at high volume, it still has the same response, which can lead to a brighter tweeter. I haven't heard the Reference line, but measurements show it should be a little flatter by comparison.

These differences may matter less if you use room correction.
Overall they sounded much more alike than different, and while there's maybe a little bit of dip the bass and treble regions aren't all that far off and IMO and IME bringing it back to 'flat' wouldn't make a huge difference. Per the source graphs below the Infinity has some ups and downs of its own in the mids as well as increasing treble at the top-end. To your point about room correction that's true and I don't use any; I manually set distances and levels via measurement and EQ by ear as I don't like what Audyssey does. In practical use I apply/applied no EQ either way to either the C2 or the 263 as well as no EQ to the M16s or the JBL 530s that I currently use.

C2 graphs:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...peaker-review/

Infinity graphs:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...tem-test-bench

M16 graphs:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench
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post #402 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
Overall they sounded much more alike than different, and while there's maybe a little bit of dip the bass and treble regions aren't all that far off and IMO and IME bringing it back to 'flat' wouldn't make a huge difference. Per the source graphs below the Infinity has some ups and downs of its own in the mids as well as increasing treble at the top-end. To your point about room correction that's true and I don't use any; I manually set distances and levels via measurement and EQ by ear as I don't like what Audyssey does. In practical use I apply/applied no EQ either way to either the C2 or the 263 as well as no EQ to the M16s or the JBL 530s that I currently use.

C2 graphs:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...peaker-review/

Infinity graphs:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...tem-test-bench

M16 graphs:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench
Note, the RC263 is a 3-way so its measurements are probably closer to the R263 floorstander vs. the R162 bookshelf:

https://hometheaterreview.com/measur...d-full/?page=2

They each have their own +/- ~2dB bumps but the treble on the R263 doesn't fly off into the stratosphere starting at 6kHz.

(Since they have the same tweeter and they're crossed over way below 6kHz, kinda makes you wonder if one or the other publication didn't do their measurements quite right, though...)
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post #403 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 10:11 AM
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Note, the RC263 is a 3-way so its measurements are probably closer to the R263 floorstander vs. the R162 bookshelf:

https://hometheaterreview.com/measur...d-full/?page=2

They each have their own +/- ~2dB bumps but the treble on the R263 doesn't fly off into the stratosphere starting at 6kHz.

(Since they have the same tweeter and they're crossed over way below 6kHz, kinda makes you wonder if one or the other publication didn't do their measurements quite right, though...)
The RC263 graph is the green trace in that link, so that seems pretty straightforward, but agreed though that it can be tough to directly compare different publications/reviewers. I treat the graphs as a general guideline to what I may hear with a given speaker.

Since you mention the R263s though I really wish I would have gotten my hands on a set. While the Reference line, particularly at their sale prices, are steals at this point those R263s seemed like a major gem.

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Harmon has some refurbished r162's at 175 a pair. May be worth it to try out.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/speakers...SABEgIzRvD_BwE
I've been eyeing them at that same link for a lonnnnng time now, and even with as cheap as they are I already have the M16s, JBL Studio 530s, and a pair of Jamo S803s hanging around (along with Jamo S809s and JBL Arena 180s in the living room). Tough to justify another pair of speakers that dont' have a clear-cut use but can one really have enough quality speakers, and/or it seems it may be worth it to do to provide the direct comparison alone.
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post #404 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 10:24 AM
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The RC263 graph is the green trace in that link, so that seems pretty straightforward, but agreed though that it can be tough to directly compare different publications/reviewers. I treat the graphs as a general guideline to what I may hear with a given speaker.
Oh whoops, haha, didn't even notice that green line.

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Since you mention the R263s though I really wish I would have gotten my hands on a set. While the Reference line, particularly at their sale prices, are steals at this point those R263s seemed like a major gem.
I have the R253s and I think they're great, although admittedly I don't have much to compare them to. I went for the smaller speakers since the difference is just like 1-2Hz of bass extension. Might as well have the speakers that are easier to move around, less visually imposing, lighter weight, etc. Of course the fact that they're slightly cheaper doesn't hurt, either.

Quote:
I've been eyeing them at that same link for a lonnnnng time now, and even with as cheap as they are I already have the M16s, JBL Studio 530s, and a pair of Jamo S803s hanging around (along with Jamo S809s and JBL Arena 180s in the living room). Tough to justify another pair of speakers that dont' have a clear-cut use but can one really have enough quality speakers, and/or it seems it may be worth it to do to provide the direct comparison alone.
I've been thinking about buying a pair of refurb R162s for my computer, just to see if they provide more bass than the Ascend CBM-170 SEs that I currently have. I admit that it's a completely stupid idea, but very tempting. I have no idea how good Harman refurbs are... "refub" could mean almost anything depending on which company you're talking about.
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post #405 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 10:47 AM
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Oh whoops, haha, didn't even notice that green line.

I have the R253s and I think they're great, although admittedly I don't have much to compare them to. I went for the smaller speakers since the difference is just like 1-2Hz of bass extension. Might as well have the speakers that are easier to move around, less visually imposing, lighter weight, etc. Of course the fact that they're slightly cheaper doesn't hurt, either.

I've been thinking about buying a pair of refurb R162s for my computer, just to see if they provide more bass than the Ascend CBM-170 SEs that I currently have. I admit that it's a completely stupid idea, but very tempting. I have no idea how good Harman refurbs are... "refub" could mean almost anything depending on which company you're talking about.
I just bought a pair of JBL Arena 180 refurbs from them and my brother bought an R12 refurb from the Harman site and they're all perfect or near-perfect, and the RC263 that I sent back (surely to end up sold as a refurb) was perfect as well. No guarantee of future results of course but with their generous return policy and shipping covered both ways I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger if you're interested.
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post #406 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 01:22 PM
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I've been thinking about buying a pair of refurb R162s for my computer, just to see if they provide more bass than the Ascend CBM-170 SEs that I currently have. I admit that it's a completely stupid idea, but very tempting.
I wouldn't expect much bass from them. Without my sub filling in, my R162s sound pretty anemic. But with everything dialed in correctly... The speakers I use with my computer, Acoustic Research AR-7s, have much more bass. For their size I haven't found better.
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post #407 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 04:38 PM
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I wouldn't expect much bass from them. Without my sub filling in, my R162s sound pretty anemic. But with everything dialed in correctly... The speakers I use with my computer, Acoustic Research AR-7s, have much more bass. For their size I haven't found better.
Thanks, you've likely saved me some money. Acoustic Research AR-7s? Circa 1973... ? Interesting.
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post #408 of 436 Old 07-29-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
I've been thinking about buying a pair of refurb R162s for my computer, just to see if they provide more bass than the Ascend CBM-170 SEs that I currently have. I admit that it's a completely stupid idea, but very tempting. I have no idea how good Harman refurbs are... "refub" could mean almost anything depending on which company you're talking about.
The only sure way to get good bass with computer/desktop speakers is to throw a sub under the desk. With a sub, you can actually keep the L/R speakers down to manageable size so they don't take up half of your desk space, unless you have a giant desk where space is not an issue.
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post #409 of 436 Old 07-30-2019, 03:10 AM
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Thanks, you've likely saved me some money. Acoustic Research AR-7s? Circa 1973... ? Interesting.
The only real advantage of true acoustic suspension speakers: big bass, little box. The R162s though, leave the AR-7s in the dust as far as neutrality and inner detail recovery go. Much preferred for long-term listening.
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post #410 of 436 Old 08-17-2019, 08:04 PM
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Anyone know if there would be any negative affect using the RS152s on speaker stands opposed to mounting on the wall?
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post #411 of 436 Old 08-18-2019, 02:44 AM
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Anyone know if there would be any negative affect using the RS152s on speaker stands opposed to mounting on the wall?
I have to imagine that the speakers are designed assuming the woofer fires directly into a wall. For lower frequencies this wouldn't make a difference, but the woofer is crossed over at ~1.8 kHz or higher. At those frequencies the wavelengths are only around 2 inches, so you might see some phase cancellation around those frequencies if they're not reflecting as expected, i.e., if the speaker isn't mounted against a wall. Or you might see a big dip around those frequencies if the speaker is far away from any reflecting surfaces. So I think the answer is yes, there would be negative effects. It wouldn't be optimal. Then again, generally speaking, there's not that much content that comes out of those rear/surround channels, so it might not matter that much.
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post #412 of 436 Old 08-19-2019, 06:42 PM
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Two questions. First would I get more uniform sound if I swapped my RC263 for an Elac Debut 2.0 C6.2 center channel? I already have the Elac Debut 2.0 F6.2 towers.

Second question. If I were to sell the Infinity what would be a good price?
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post #413 of 436 Old 08-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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Does anyone have the RS152s and can comment on how well the Hemispherical Soundfield Technology works? Is it pretty seamless across your seats?

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post #414 of 436 Old 08-20-2019, 12:47 PM
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Not sure if you all saw this or not, AVS running a 50% with Infinity on the R253 towers: https://www.avsforum.com/save-50-inf...-253-speakers/
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post #415 of 436 Old 08-29-2019, 06:39 AM
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I got R162's spinorama measurements.
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post #416 of 436 Old 08-29-2019, 07:38 AM
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I got R162's spinorama measurements.
Interesting. Looks pretty similar to the Revel M16 spin (perhaps unsurprisingly...), with the Infinity a bit higher through the upper mids and treble overall.
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post #417 of 436 Old 08-29-2019, 09:26 AM
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I got R162's spinorama measurements.
Oh wow, how did you do this?? I've been trying to get a spinorama plot for the R253 ever since I bought mine early last year.
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post #418 of 436 Old 08-30-2019, 12:44 AM
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Oh wow, how did you do this?? I've been trying to get a spinorama plot for the R253 ever since I bought mine early last year.
I received by email from harman customer support.
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post #419 of 436 Old 08-30-2019, 08:58 AM
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I received by email from harman customer support.
Nice. I think you lucked out a bit there. I asked customer support for the spinorama for the R253 and they said they couldn't give it to me. They were nice enough to tell me the crossover frequencies between the drivers though, which they didn't have to do. I'd ask them for the spinorama again but I'm kinda reluctant since I already asked them once. :/
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post #420 of 436 Old 08-30-2019, 10:01 AM
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Nice. I think you lucked out a bit there. I asked customer support for the spinorama for the R253 and they said they couldn't give it to me. They were nice enough to tell me the crossover frequencies between the drivers though, which they didn't have to do. I'd ask them for the spinorama again but I'm kinda reluctant since I already asked them once. :/
Ah, maybe I was just lucky, just like you said.
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