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post #2971 of 2987 Old 06-30-2019, 04:53 AM
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Is anyone utilizing the KEF Ci160.2CR for Atmos duties?

A smaller 6.5" speaker that looks to be living room aesthetics friendly and claims to go down to 52Hz with 89dB sensitivity.

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post #2972 of 2987 Old 06-30-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
Is anyone utilizing the KEF Ci160.2CR for Atmos duties?

A smaller 6.5" speaker that looks to be living room aesthetics friendly and claims to go down to 52Hz with 89dB sensitivity.

I'm not using them, and I wouldn't worry too much about the low-end if you're running sub(s). That speaker will do just fine for Atmos.
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post #2973 of 2987 Old 06-30-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
Is anyone utilizing the KEF Ci160.2CR for Atmos duties?

A smaller 6.5" speaker that looks to be living room aesthetics friendly and claims to go down to 52Hz with 89dB sensitivity.

I'm not using them, but I wouldn't worry too much about the low-end if you're running sub(s). That speaker will do just fine for Atmos.
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Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2974 of 2987 Old 07-03-2019, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
Question for people who have a lot of experience with Atmos movies. - Is the typical Atmos content better served by having better clarity and detail or a speaker capable of going lower with a fuller sound?

I haven't heard Atmos yet but I'm thinking more of jets flying over, thunder, etc. but I may be completely off base.
Not sure I can answer this directly after hearing just one set of speakers, but after reading most of this thread and experiencing Atmos in my room I feel I can offer some helpful insights. When I stick my ear next to the Atmos speakers while playing content from the Atmos demonstration disc, I don't hear a lot of sounds with the type of detail required of center, left or right channel speakers. Most of the content is ambient, so I don't think anyone will suffer from lack of detail from their Atmos speakers. As an example, on some music tracks from the disc, it was mostly the reverb sounds coming out of the Atmos speakers or the white noise from the crowd. On the Star Wars Battlefront track, there is a lot of deep sounds from the fighters passing overhead. In the opening scene of Aquaman there was some thunder. Based on the content I listened to, I opted for 8" speakers to make sure I was getting a good experience with the deeper sound effects. I think that coupled with dispersion is far more important than getting the most detailed speakers you can find. I suspect every speaker discussed in this thread is plenty detailed enough to provide a good Atmos experience. I also suspect thin sounding special effects will stand out a lot more than not hearing a cricket chirp. Also keep in mind that anything above 80hz starts get in the area where it can be localized. If there is a sound coming out of the Atmos channel that is just above 80hz, you want to hear it overhead and not from your subwoofer.
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post #2975 of 2987 Old 07-03-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianjb View Post
When I stick my ear next to the Atmos speakers while playing content from the Atmos demonstration disc, I don't hear a lot of sounds with the type of detail required of center, left or right channel speakers. Most of the content is ambient, so I don't think anyone will suffer from lack of detail from their Atmos speakers. As an example, on some music tracks from the disc, it was mostly the reverb sounds coming out of the Atmos speakers or the white noise from the crowd. On the Star Wars Battlefront track, there is a lot of deep sounds from the fighters passing overhead. In the opening scene of Aquaman there was some thunder. Based on the content I listened to, I opted for 8" speakers to make sure I was getting a good experience with the deeper sound effects. I think that coupled with dispersion is far more important than getting the most detailed speakers you can find. I suspect every speaker discussed in this thread is plenty detailed enough to provide a good Atmos experience. I also suspect thin sounding special effects will stand out a lot more than not hearing a cricket chirp. Also keep in mind that anything above 80hz starts get in the area where it can be localized. If there is a sound coming out of the Atmos channel that is just above 80hz, you want to hear it overhead and not from your subwoofer.
Very helpful. Out of curiosity which speakers are you using?

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post #2976 of 2987 Old 07-03-2019, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post
Very helpful. Out of curiosity which speakers are you using?
The Micca M-8C. I went back and forth on several options, but ultimately picked these for a few reasons. I knew I wanted an 8' speaker. Everything I was considering had the same or a slightly larger cutout, so I knew I could upgrade if necessary. The Miccas had so many good reviews and I could get free return shipping, so I thought it was worth trying them. I was expecting these to be over-hyped, but ended up being pleasantly surprised. If these were for music, I would have returned them. Then again, I probably would't have bought them in the first place. Not that their bad, but they are really more suited for background party music where people are semi-listening while they are also engaged in conversation. For Atmos speakers, they're pretty good. Maybe it's an ignorance is bliss situation, but everything I've played sounds natural. They don't draw attention to themselves, but if I listen for the overhead effects, they sound as I would expect. And at $160, I really won't be too bothered if some day I hear something better and decide to upgrade. I'm glad I gave them a shot, because normally I would have written these off as too good to be true.
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post #2977 of 2987 Old 07-04-2019, 01:07 AM
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Not a lot of people mention them but i love my Atlantic IC-6 OBA's. They are made for object based audio so that gets the guessing work out of the way. also they come with a white grill that is easily painted (i spray painted mine matte black and it took 2 mins).


Sound&Vision wrote about them here.

Honestly i highly recommend them and they sound really good with no hot spotting. They also just weight like 3 Lbs.

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post #2978 of 2987 Old 07-04-2019, 10:58 AM
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Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos?

Hey guys, wanted to chime in. My dad just put in Polk Audio RC80i. We aren’t familiar with their sound since we’ve never had Polk. He has all vintage KEF and I have Klipsch. The 8in Polk in ceiling sounded great and crystal clear and good bass when we tried them full range. They will be crossed over and used for Atmos so they will only sound clearer. We were worried that getting all 4 for under $300 would mean it isn’t the highest end but they sound great and the tweeter sound great. Lots of details from guitar strings etc. Also, they’re sensitive enough when running 9 channels with a Denon 4300 and driving 6ohm KEFs.


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post #2979 of 2987 Old 07-04-2019, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianjb View Post
Not sure I can answer this directly after hearing just one set of speakers, but after reading most of this thread and experiencing Atmos in my room I feel I can offer some helpful insights. When I stick my ear next to the Atmos speakers while playing content from the Atmos demonstration disc, I don't hear a lot of sounds with the type of detail required of center, left or right channel speakers. Most of the content is ambient, so I don't think anyone will suffer from lack of detail from their Atmos speakers. As an example, on some music tracks from the disc, it was mostly the reverb sounds coming out of the Atmos speakers or the white noise from the crowd. On the Star Wars Battlefront track, there is a lot of deep sounds from the fighters passing overhead. In the opening scene of Aquaman there was some thunder. Based on the content I listened to, I opted for 8" speakers to make sure I was getting a good experience with the deeper sound effects. I think that coupled with dispersion is far more important than getting the most detailed speakers you can find. I suspect every speaker discussed in this thread is plenty detailed enough to provide a good Atmos experience. I also suspect thin sounding special effects will stand out a lot more than not hearing a cricket chirp. Also keep in mind that anything above 80hz starts get in the area where it can be localized. If there is a sound coming out of the Atmos channel that is just above 80hz, you want to hear it overhead and not from your subwoofer.
This is an excellent example of why I chose the Micca R-8c over the RSL C34E - way more low-end on the Micca vs slightly better detail on the RSL.

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post #2980 of 2987 Old 07-08-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawCPA View Post
Hey guys, wanted to chime in. My dad just put in Polk Audio RC80i. We aren’t familiar with their sound since we’ve never had Polk. He has all vintage KEF and I have Klipsch. The 8in Polk in ceiling sounded great and crystal clear and good bass when we tried them full range. They will be crossed over and used for Atmos so they will only sound clearer. We were worried that getting all 4 for under $300 would mean it isn’t the highest end but they sound great and the tweeter sound great. Lots of details from guitar strings etc.
I just installed these for a friend as rear surrounds, and they do seem to work well. In his situation it had to be ceiling speakers for <$150 (WAF). I am pleased with the sound and the look. While I prefer speakers that use magnetic grills to hide more (like RSL), these blended in with his white ceiling enough to not stand out badly. I crossed them over at 80Hz and hooked up my subwoofer to see how they sound when bass is carried by a sub, and it was good (I also think I convinced him that he needs a nice sub to fill out the sound).
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post #2981 of 2987 Old 07-09-2019, 12:36 PM
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When I first began to investigate in ceiling speakers for my home theater, there wasn't that much to choose from. Now....SO MANY CHOICES! It's almost overwhelming. The good news is that there are a lot in very inexpensive price points. But my ears probably won't want to do something that just lights up the ceiling for an occasional explosion so quality still matters. And since I'm still not running with a sub (a future upgrade after an old one quit), I'd like the in-ceiling choice to at least have decent range but I'm not getting my hopes entirely up. I'm using two SVS Prime Elevations for front heights (which will be joined by the aforementioned in-ceilings) and while they are rated fairly low, Audyssey on my Marantz 7703 is choosing to cross them over at 120 hz.

So my regular speakers are AV123 Rockets from 15+ years ago and still working fine (seven speaker bed). The SVS speakers are up now above the fronts. I'm still looking at one of my original targets, the RSL C34E since the 15 degree angle works in my situation (13 ft ceiling, 30.5 inches forward of MLP estimated for installation). But I am looking for competitors and I see many available targets at or less than the price of the RSLs. Some of the Monoprice speakers are almost too good to pass up but I wonder how they will sound (especially given some of the all-over-the-place reviews).

I'm thinking I might have to do a top 3, order all of them and do a critical listening (front position, not ceiling) and then pick one to install for good. Yes, I realize that without a speaker box it's not going to sound like a regular speaker on the low end.
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post #2982 of 2987 Old 07-10-2019, 08:34 AM
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Does anyone have any input on how Monoprice ceiling speakers work in Atmos service?
Also, my HT hasn't been finished yet, and I currently have wood rafters with the wooden subfloor above. Would I be best served by building MDF boxes between the rafters for the ceiling speakers to be mounted into, or using something like the plastic or metal can's sold by monoprice for their speakers?

The rest of the speakers in the system are Infinity Beta series, powered by a new Pioneer VSX-LX503 and an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 1.

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post #2983 of 2987 Old 07-10-2019, 09:39 AM
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I tried the Amber's from Monoprice..... did not like so I returned them. Decided to just go with what I know and that matches the rest of my system. The Klipsch CDT 5800's. Started install last night. I have installed 10 or so in wall speakers and honestly the cutting of of the ceiling was WAY MORE annoying and dusty than the walls. Every single bit of drywall dust just drops right onto and into every part of your body! I have cut 2 holes so far and unfortunately I ran into a 1x2 bridge they used to add mounting area for hanging the drywall in both holes. I ended up having to use a jigsaw for about 25% of each hole because the drywall saw doesn't like cutting through wood lol. Because they only used 1x2 and not 2x4 lumber the mounting tabs were still able to clamp down on them.

I only did the rear speakers because I need to slide the seating out of the way. I ran the wires... which again was much more annoying than I anticipated due to cross bridging and blocking. I coiled the speaker wire for the front speakers (my AVR is in the rear of my room) in the holes and threw the speakers up just to see how they looked. Honestly they do blend right in despite being about 10 inches across. I need to pull them out in order to continue with the next set so I'll try to grab a couple pictures of the issues I ran into. Maybe it will help others that decide to hack into their ceilings lol.

I have yet to listen to them cause I have a pretty good idea what Klipsch sound like as I have owned probably 30 different models over the years. The ability to aim the tweeter is nice though.
Paid $194 each.
For the dust, I had bought the "fine dust" filter for my shop-vac and had my brother hold the hose close to the saw while making the cuts. Hardly any dust made it to the floor by doing this. Heck, if anything, pulling the cutout down made more of a mess than anything but wasn't too bad by holding it flat when pulling it down.
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post #2984 of 2987 Old 07-10-2019, 07:23 PM
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For the dust, I had bought the "fine dust" filter for my shop-vac and had my brother hold the hose close to the saw while making the cuts. Hardly any dust made it to the floor by doing this. Heck, if anything, pulling the cutout down made more of a mess than anything but wasn't too bad by holding it flat when pulling it down.
I did exactly that when i cut the in wall speakers.... but without an extra set of hands i wasnt able to do it on the ceiling unfortunately.
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post #2985 of 2987 Old 07-12-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zryder View Post
Doe&#115; anyone have any input on how Monoprice ceiling &#115;peaker&#115; work in Atmo&#115; &#115;ervice?
I have been using these for my .4 overheads in my garage http&#115;://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=10837&c&#115;_id=3040411&p_ id=4104&&#115;eq=1&format=2

I have also used the Alpha's;. They have been fine in my opinion, they get loud and have decent detail.

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Here is a brief hands-on comparison between two popular in-ceiling atmos speaker price points: the $60 Micca R-8c vs the $125 RSL C34e.

I had these two speakers on hand for a week or so listening to them and wanted to give my feedback on them as it seems no one really does any real comparisons of in-ceiling speakers.


First off here is my setup and the method in which I compared the two speakers:

AVR: Onkyo RZ830

Sources: htpc, laptop, Android phone. Direct high-quality movie/music tracks were played.


Notes:

The 2 speakers were connected as L/R channels on the AVR and all other speakers/sub were disconnected. Connected as 6ohm speakers (the RZ830 doesn’t have an 8ohm option).

12ga oxygen free speaker wire used (no banana plugs/other were used).

The speakers mounted and enclosed inside equally sized boxes.

Distances were measured to replicate approximate MLP dispersion angles for atmos installation.
I tested with the AVR set in pure mode which means no room correction, no sound enhancements, no eq, no other sound manipulation/etc.

Tested both speakers with crossovers at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 120.

The Micca has selectable settings for the crossover for both the bass and treble of +/- 3db. I left the settings at 0 for each for the comparisons mentioned below (I of course did do some comparisons using the selectable crossover setups myself, but for the sake of this simple comparison I didn’t make use of it in my review below).

Room: 14ft x 25ft with 8ft ceilings, full carpet, large sectional, 12 acoustic panels lining the walls/ceiling.


After getting both speakers set up in boxes and ready to compare it was apparent that the Micca plays much louder than the RSL, so this made my testing a bit cumbersome because now I had to dial in the spl difference between them each time. The Micca sensitivity is listed at a 90db and the RSL is 88db.

Once everything was dialed in equally, I played the RSL speaker by its self through a short audio track I had on hand; it sounded clean and detailed. Next, I played just the Micca through the same audio track, and my very first thought was “wow, that’s much more dynamic/full sounding”. The Micca definitely makes use of the 8” driver for a bit of low-end presence that the RSL lacked. Now, I know a lot of you will be making the comment at this point that the low-end presence or lack there-of doesn’t really matter if it’s going to be used for atmos, but I don’t completely agree as I have heard plenty of atmos height channel content that makes use of stuff below 80hz, but you can decide for yourself of course.

Playing through some movie scenes, the Micca filled the room with sound much better as it again added the low-end presence lacking in the RSL. The RSL never sounded “bad” or “lacking” on its own, but when it was contrasted side by side with the Micca its shortcomings became apparent.

Dispersion: this is where I was confident that the RSL would dominate. I even went into the testing feeling like I would find the RSL the winner solely due to its better design for an Atmos setup…I was wrong. I angled both tweeters towards the mlp, measured off the correct angles as if they were mounted in-ceiling and at my mlp, I found no night and day difference between the two in dispersion or one having a clear advantage for hitting the sweet spot(s) with sound. Hmm. I chalk this up to the decent adjustable tweeter on the Micca I suppose…


Quick conclusion: given how equal these two speakers ended up being on the angle/dispersion issue and the significant low-end advantage of the Micca this comparison ended up being an easy win imo for the Micca. Now, I don’t hold the Micca in high regard as some sort of hidden gem of quality in the mass marketplace of in-ceiling speakers, but for the purpose of a home theater Atmos speaker it gets the job done very very well at a great price. I would wager than “most” in-ceiling speakers making use of an 8” driver and directional tweeter will make a great atmos speaker these days.

I hope this has been helpful/informative for those of you shopping for atmos speakers.


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post #2987 of 2987 Old 07-12-2019, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Here is a brief hands-on comparison between two popular in-ceiling atmos speaker price points: the $60 Micca R-8c vs the $125 RSL C34e.



I had these two speakers on hand for a week or so listening to them and wanted to give my feedback on them as it seems no one really does any real comparisons of in-ceiling speakers.





First off here is my setup and the method in which I compared the two speakers:



AVR: Onkyo RZ830



Sources: htpc, laptop, Android phone. Direct high-quality movie/music tracks were played.





Notes:



The 2 speakers were connected as L/R channels on the AVR and all other speakers/sub were disconnected. Connected as 6ohm speakers (the RZ830 doesn’t have an 8ohm option).



12ga oxygen free speaker wire used (no banana plugs/other were used).



The speakers mounted and enclosed inside equally sized boxes.



Distances were measured to replicate approximate MLP dispersion angles for atmos installation.

I tested with the AVR set in pure mode which means no room correction, no sound enhancements, no eq, no other sound manipulation/etc.



Tested both speakers with crossovers at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 120.



The Micca has selectable settings for the crossover for both the bass and treble of +/- 3db. I left the settings at 0 for each for the comparisons mentioned below (I of course did do some comparisons using the selectable crossover setups myself, but for the sake of this simple comparison I didn’t make use of it in my review below).



Room: 14ft x 25ft with 8ft ceilings, full carpet, large sectional, 12 acoustic panels lining the walls/ceiling.





After getting both speakers set up in boxes and ready to compare it was apparent that the Micca plays much louder than the RSL, so this made my testing a bit cumbersome because now I had to dial in the spl difference between them each time. The Micca sensitivity is listed at a 90db and the RSL is 88db.



Once everything was dialed in equally, I played the RSL speaker by its self through a short audio track I had on hand; it sounded clean and detailed. Next, I played just the Micca through the same audio track, and my very first thought was “wow, that’s much more dynamic/full sounding”. The Micca definitely makes use of the 8” driver for a bit of low-end presence that the RSL lacked. Now, I know a lot of you will be making the comment at this point that the low-end presence or lack there-of doesn’t really matter if it’s going to be used for atmos, but I don’t completely agree as I have heard plenty of atmos height channel content that makes use of stuff below 80hz, but you can decide for yourself of course.



Playing through some movie scenes, the Micca filled the room with sound much better as it again added the low-end presence lacking in the RSL. The RSL never sounded “bad” or “lacking” on its own, but when it was contrasted side by side with the Micca its shortcomings became apparent.



Dispersion: this is where I was confident that the RSL would dominate. I even went into the testing feeling like I would find the RSL the winner solely due to its better design for an Atmos setup…I was wrong. I angled both tweeters towards the mlp, measured off the correct angles as if they were mounted in-ceiling and at my mlp, I found no night and day difference between the two in dispersion or one having a clear advantage for hitting the sweet spot(s) with sound. Hmm. I chalk this up to the decent adjustable tweeter on the Micca I suppose…





Quick conclusion: given how equal these two speakers ended up being on the angle/dispersion issue and the significant low-end advantage of the Micca this comparison ended up being an easy win imo for the Micca. Now, I don’t hold the Micca in high regard as some sort of hidden gem of quality in the mass marketplace of in-ceiling speakers, but for the purpose of a home theater Atmos speaker it gets the job done very very well at a great price. I would wager than “most” in-ceiling speakers making use of an 8” driver and directional tweeter will make a great atmos speaker these days.



I hope this has been helpful/informative for those of you shopping for atmos speakers.







Great review! Although I went with much more costly 8” JBL’s (which I must now sell due to a downsize), I entirely agree with your premise that 8” woofers in Atmos speakers can make a meaningful difference.


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