Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos? - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 2987 Old 02-28-2016, 08:45 PM
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For those in SoCal, Monaco in Pasadena has a bunch of the KEF products. Including some in ceiling speakers in their demo room. They sure sounded good to my ears.
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post #1232 of 2987 Old 02-28-2016, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
Don't angle them. They are engineered to be flush to the ceiling for best performance. They are flush, but KEF's Uni-Q driver gives incredible dispersion. That speaker is THX Ultra2 certified, mounted flush/flat in the ceiling... even for LCR use!

The perfect box would have .71 cubic feet or larger. I say "or larger" because after .71 cubic feet the box becomes invisible to the speaker and does not matter in terms of sound quality or performance.

Tomorrow, I can attach KEF's sheet they sent to me as a dealer showing minimum & maximum boxes for best performance in their architectural speakers. A KEF engineer is the one who noted the "or larger" to me, so that is accurate. Basically, as long as you don't have the speaker mounted up in a tiny space, you are good to go.
So if I have them mounted in the ceiling with an attic above do you see a benefit to adding a backer box? I'm open to experimentation. However, they already sound great without backer boxes!
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post #1233 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8der View Post
So if I have them mounted in the ceiling with an attic above do you see a benefit to adding a backer box? I'm open to experimentation. However, they already sound great without backer boxes!
Nope! No sonic benefit at all. Open attic space is much larger than .71 cubic feet so you are good to go.

If there are other concerns: Debris getting in them, weather (incredibly cold or incredibly hot, etc. etc.) then a back box might help with that. But as long as the box is larger than .71 cubic feet there is no performance benefit.
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post #1234 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 11:31 AM
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Just installed RSL C34E's this weekend. I only did two for now. I didn't want to open four holes till I knew I liked them and they matched well with my Wharfedale JADES.

I can now say these are great speakers and anyone looking at them should not hesitate.

Very easy Install and they match well with my Speakers. Even hooked up in stereo they can hold their own and have a nice sound when matched with a sub. Audyssey crossed them over at 120 and that sounds about right, maybe you could drop them to 100, but I see no reason. I tried them with a Marrants AV7702mkii and I also have a Yamaha 5100 on hand I'm going to try them with(still trying to decide between which receiver). The Main speakers ran through a Outlaw 7900 Amp and the Atmos are running through my older Integra DTA-70.1 Amp(which gives me plenty of room to add more Atmos down the road).

I'm not sure how they would compare to the Mica's or the KEF's(The only KEF's I have heard are LS50's and while they sound great, even if the in-ceilings sound similar, I see no reason to spend that kind of money for ATMOS in ceilings, unless you already have KEF"s, when the RSL's sound this good), But for someone looking to spend somewhere in the middle, these RSL C34E's are great at $125 each. I was waffling between getting either Wharfedales in-ceiling speakers for the same price(but they looked like a old design and were not edgeless or KEF's for double to triple the price. I'm glad I went with the RSL.
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post #1235 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 11:49 AM
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Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos?

How wide are the dual drivers and are they powerful enough if u crank it?


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post #1236 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Just installed RSL C34E's this weekend. I only did two for now. I didn't want to open four holes till I knew I liked them and they matched well with my Wharfedale JADES.

I can now say these are great speakers and anyone looking at them should not hesitate.

Very easy Install and they match well with my Speakers. Even hooked up in stereo they can hold their own and have a nice sound when matched with a sub. Audyssey crossed them over at 120 and that sounds about right, maybe you could drop them to 100, but I see no reason. I tried them with a Marrants AV7702mkii and I also have a Yamaha 5100 on hand I'm going to try them with(still trying to decide between which receiver). The Main speakers ran through a Outlaw 7900 Amp and the Atmos are running through my older Integra DTA-70.1 Amp(which gives me plenty of room to add more Atmos down the road).

I'm not sure how they would compare to the Mica's or the KEF's(The only KEF's I have heard are LS50's and while they sound great, even if the in-ceilings sound similar, I see no reason to spend that kind of money for ATMOS in ceilings, unless you already have KEF"s, when the RSL's sound this good), But for someone looking to spend somewhere in the middle, these RSL C34E's are great at $125 each. I was waffling between getting either Wharfedales in-ceiling speakers for the same price(but they looked like a old design and were not edgeless or KEF's for double to triple the price. I'm glad I went with the RSL.
Glad you like the RSLs! I agree with everything you said. I'm very happy with the RSLs. For Atmos duty they do extremely well and they are only $125 each to boot.

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post #1237 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 03:33 PM
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If anyone is still interested in Micca speakers at this point , and are looking for similar specs in angled versions, 6.5" inch, frameless, and square or round grills it looks like Russound's RS series Mica speakers might fit the bill. Well at 3 times the bill but might be worth a look.

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post #1238 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
How wide are the dual drivers and are they powerful enough if u crank it?


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They can hold their own against the Jades. The Jades crank and are very detailed. It's one of the best speakers I have heard. The RSL kept up with no problem no matter how much I cranked it up. They excellent speakers.

I'm no expert on ATMOS, but I think what you want is a wide dispersion and allot of detail in the mid and high frequencies. I'm not sure any in-ceiling is going to give great lows and I don't think you should be looking for that. I watched a couple of Atmos movies and RSL really shined. They play loud with no problem and are very detailed. The dispersion is great also. Even though the dual drivers are angled, if stand in front of them they still disperse in that direction a good distance. Far more than you would sit.

I'm not sure what you mean by how wide? They are 4 1/2 inches. They are separated by about 1/2 inch(with my eye). Hopefully this answers your question.

I have no complaints, they are worth every penny and I have already ordered two more.
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post #1239 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
They can hold their own against the Jades. The Jades crank and are very detailed. It's one of the best speakers I have heard. The RSL kept up with no problem no matter how much I cranked it up. They excellent speakers.



I'm no expert on ATMOS, but I think what you want is a wide dispersion and allot of detail in the mid and high frequencies. I'm not sure any in-ceiling is going to give great lows and I don't think you should be looking for that. I watched a couple of Atmos movies and RSL really shined. They play loud with no problem and are very detailed. The dispersion is great also. Even though the dual drivers are angled, if stand in front of them they still disperse in that direction a good distance. Far more than you would sit.



I'm not sure what you mean by how wide? They are 4 1/2 inches. They are separated by about 1/2 inch(with my eye). Hopefully this answers your question.



I have no complaints, they are worth every penny and I have already ordered two more.

Appreciate the review. I would have been surprised if you hadn't liked them. They're one of the few ceiling speakers designed specifically for Atmos, and RSL is a reputable company. I would expect them to be a nice upgrade from the Micca's.


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post #1240 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
Don't angle them. They are engineered to be flush to the ceiling for best performance. They are flush, but KEF's Uni-Q driver gives incredible dispersion. That speaker is THX Ultra2 certified, mounted flush/flat in the ceiling... even for LCR use!

The perfect box would have .71 cubic feet or larger. I say "or larger" because after .71 cubic feet the box becomes invisible to the speaker and does not matter in terms of sound quality or performance.

Tomorrow, I can attach KEF's sheet they sent to me as a dealer showing minimum & maximum boxes for best performance in their architectural speakers. A KEF engineer is the one who noted the "or larger" to me, so that is accurate. Basically, as long as you don't have the speaker mounted up in a tiny space, you are good to go.

I wouldn't completely agree.............

I use an angle of 10 degrees which is fine for all intent and purposes...............................geometry is what it is. You can angle baffle to some degree, but design of speaker was meant to be set at 0 degrees...............................
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post #1241 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8der View Post
So if I have them mounted in the ceiling with an attic above do you see a benefit to adding a backer box? I'm open to experimentation. However, they already sound great without backer boxes!
The only reason for backer boxes is to contain sound to other rooms or in my case, I have my four Kef's in a sealed, soundproofed room. I didn't cut holes into the dampen, soundproofed ceiling...........rather I attached directly to ceiling backer boxes inside room to alleviate the back wave near ceiling boundary. If you are ok hearing sound 70 ft away in another room, then you should be fine as these speakers were designed as infinite baffle. Backer boxes have their application...................if you don't plan on building backer boxes and are fine with your sound containment situation, no reason to build backer boxes.
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post #1242 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 05:37 PM
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Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos?

Carbo; thx a lot for response. Sounds like I may buy these, but I'm also looking at the Micca & Yamaha 8" speakers on sale at AC4L.com for $119 I think.

Tough choice.. Hmmm

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Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #1243 of 2987 Old 02-29-2016, 07:54 PM
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Does anyone have dispersion numbers/graphs on the RSL and KEF ceiling speakers? I haven't been able to find any.
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post #1244 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 06:33 AM
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Here is the RSL:
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post #1245 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 06:35 AM
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Yanks; Good luck. It's tough picking Atmos speakers. We need a Master Thread with speakers people have tried.
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post #1246 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Here is the RSL:
I have no idea how to read this as far as dispersion goes. I get the directivity that is being shown, but I don't know about dispersion. That could be a 20 degree cone or 120 degree as far as I can tell.

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post #1247 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 09:22 AM
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If the speaker is the center of the graph, those are db and freq in each direction. Top being the front of the speaker. The RSL is angled/aimed.
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post #1248 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
If the speaker is the center of the graph, those are db and freq in each direction. Top being the front of the speaker. The RSL is angled/aimed.
At what distance?

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It depends what db your playing at. The distance changes.
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post #1250 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
I have no idea how to read this as far as dispersion goes. I get the directivity that is being shown, but I don't know about dispersion. That could be a 20 degree cone or 120 degree as far as I can tell.
That type of graph doesn't show the whole picture. Off axis response plots are a much better indicator.

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post #1251 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 11:27 AM
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hi....i am installing a 7.1.4 home theater....for both dolby atmos and dts x......and was looking at lots of different ceiling speakers.....but i think i am going to install 4 of these speakers ( rsl c34e in ceiling speakers)but i cant seem to find anywhere who sells them.....im in ireland...any advice and help would be great guys
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post #1252 of 2987 Old 03-01-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
hi....i am installing a 7.1.4 home theater....for both dolby atmos and dts x......and was looking at lots of different ceiling speakers.....but i think i am going to install 4 of these speakers ( rsl c34e in ceiling speakers)but i cant seem to find anywhere who sells them.....im in ireland...any advice and help would be great guys

I believe you order direct from RSL. You'd need to find out if they ship overseas. Best of luck!


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post #1253 of 2987 Old 03-02-2016, 03:12 AM
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couple months into having my klipsch 5800's (4 total). I am interested in the angle debate going as I pretty much maxed the angle of the woofer (90%) to point them directly at the MLP. I then slightly angled the tweeter (15%) towards the MLP as well.

I wonder if I am 'supposed' to not angle them and just rely on dispersion?

I will add at $400 per on these things, I probably should have spent less, hearing the success here of much cheaper options.

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Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post
couple months into having my klipsch 5800's (4 total). I am interested in the angle debate going as I pretty much maxed the angle of the woofer (90%) to point them directly at the MLP. I then slightly angled the tweeter (15%) towards the MLP as well.

I wonder if I am 'supposed' to not angle them and just rely on dispersion?

I will add at $400 per on these things, I probably should have spent less, hearing the success here of much cheaper options.
For Atmos, IC speakers are for effects. They're not the mains. That's why I chose the Micca. Based on a ton of positive reviews and member usage, it made for an easy choice. If they didn't sound that good, no biggie. I'd upgrade. But man, you spent $1600! You should've been blown away! But first, try the non angled position. I really hope it works.

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For Atmos, IC speakers are for effects. They're not the mains. That's why I chose the Micca. Based on a ton of positive reviews and member usage, it made for an easy choice. If they didn't sound that good, no biggie. I'd upgrade. But man, you spent $1600! You should've been blown away! But first, try the non angled position. I really hope it works.
what do you mean they are not the mains?

My marantz set them up at upper front left and right and upper rear left and right, I still have a LCR and Rear surround, all togethor is a 5.1.4 configuration identified by my marantz as the proper Atmos setup.

Are you saying if you put the upfiring speakers rather than in ceilings and then config the amps appropriately you will get 'more' information for atmos?

sounds a bit crazy.

To my point, if that were the case the dolby atmos demos would not sound good at all.. right?

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You talked about dispersion and that you angled the speakers. I said to adjust the IC to regular position and see if dispersion works better.

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post #1257 of 2987 Old 03-02-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post
couple months into having my klipsch 5800's (4 total). I am interested in the angle debate going as I pretty much maxed the angle of the woofer (90%) to point them directly at the MLP. I then slightly angled the tweeter (15%) towards the MLP as well.

I wonder if I am 'supposed' to not angle them and just rely on dispersion?

I will add at $400 per on these things, I probably should have spent less, hearing the success here of much cheaper options.
As a former Klipsch dealer I can offer my opinion having worked a fair amount with the line. Their basic in-ceilings and in-walls tend to overlap and blend between each other in terms of discernible quality. I really did not see large performance or technical differences between the price jumps when comparing a model up or down within the same size series.

To clarify: I found only a slight differences between the 5800 and the 3800, and a slight difference between the 2800 and the 1800.

That is not to say there wasn't obvious difference between the entry level 1800 or 2800 and the 5800 or 3800 - because there is, but within a series of each other the differences were subtle depending on what the application is. For ATMOS, I could see the 3800 or 5800 being a cleaner sound than the models below them either of them. They would also offer better low end performance or power handling without breaking up if you listen loud. But the 3800 & 5800 would kind of be splitting hairs between the two.

Even though there are tonal and output differences between the models, they all present sound in the traditional Island dome in front of a woofer way. I could see the MICCA speaker and the 2800 model Klipsch being very similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post
what do you mean they are not the mains?

My marantz set them up at upper front left and right and upper rear left and right, I still have a LCR and Rear surround, all togethor is a 5.1.4 configuration identified by my marantz as the proper Atmos setup.

Are you saying if you put the upfiring speakers rather than in ceilings and then config the amps appropriately you will get 'more' information for atmos?

sounds a bit crazy.

To my point, if that were the case the dolby atmos demos would not sound good at all.. right?
I can't speak for the guy you quoted, but most people refer to "MAINS" as the front Left, Center, & Right.

In a perfect world all of the speakers in a multi-channel audio system would be voice matched identically or of the same series depending on size requirements or desired dispersion. Some guys do not adhere to this ideal and mix and match between the front "MAINS" and all of the surrounds.

To relate that back to your angling questions: High frequencies are much more directional than the low ones. The 8" woofer cone also radiates in a much bigger pattern to start spreading out into the room than the small 1" tweeter. Angling them is always up to the room and seating positions. Maybe if someone couldn't get them close enough over head or in the optimal position, etc etc. it might make sense to angle them more extremely than just the tweeter or the typical 15 degrees.

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-02-2016 at 07:36 AM.
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post #1258 of 2987 Old 03-02-2016, 08:04 AM
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I'm having great success and very happy with my Speakercraft aim5 two series 2 that I grabbed off amazon from an authorized dealer for $90 each. I gladly ordered them cause I was impressed with the aim5 one speakers I heard in magnolia at $150 each.

I really wanted the aim5 three series 2 to try to match the same make as my energies cone and tweeter materials but the twos are doing just fine after audyssey xt32 and if they weren't being clearanced out by that specific dealer I would of got the threes that were also a great price but were double what I got the twos for.

I just used the treble booster on them to better match the brighter sound of the energies and I am very happy.

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post #1259 of 2987 Old 03-02-2016, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Just installed RSL C34E's this weekend. I only did two for now. I didn't want to open four holes till I knew I liked them and they matched well with my Wharfedale JADES.

I can now say these are great speakers and anyone looking at them should not hesitate.

Very easy Install and they match well with my Speakers. Even hooked up in stereo they can hold their own and have a nice sound when matched with a sub. Audyssey crossed them over at 120 and that sounds about right, maybe you could drop them to 100, but I see no reason. I tried them with a Marrants AV7702mkii and I also have a Yamaha 5100 on hand I'm going to try them with(still trying to decide between which receiver). The Main speakers ran through a Outlaw 7900 Amp and the Atmos are running through my older Integra DTA-70.1 Amp(which gives me plenty of room to add more Atmos down the road).

I'm not sure how they would compare to the Mica's or the KEF's(The only KEF's I have heard are LS50's and while they sound great, even if the in-ceilings sound similar, I see no reason to spend that kind of money for ATMOS in ceilings, unless you already have KEF"s, when the RSL's sound this good), But for someone looking to spend somewhere in the middle, these RSL C34E's are great at $125 each. I was waffling between getting either Wharfedales in-ceiling speakers for the same price(but they looked like a old design and were not edgeless or KEF's for double to triple the price. I'm glad I went with the RSL.
Thanks for posting your thoughts. I was looking forward to this since I knew you were doing the install over the weekend. Sounds like you're very happy, and I'm not surprised. I'll probably be going the same route.

Now I'm looking forward to your thoughts related to the comparison of the Yamaha vs the Marantz. Will you be posting that somewhere? I'm going down that same road as well.
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post #1260 of 2987 Old 03-02-2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
Even though there are tonal and output differences between the models, they all present sound in the traditional Island dome in front of a woofer way. I could see the MICCA speaker and the 2800 model Klipsch being very similar.
Now, I can take your observation more seriously. I know you haven't heard the Micca, but at least you can see the similarities between the 2800 and the Micca in design. Tonal differences, I'm sure. And that was my point from the get go. The Micca costs way less than the 2800.

Micca-$40
2800- $150-$200

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