Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos? - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2987 Old 04-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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Good to hear Cutler, best of luck with transition to Atmos; I love it

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 500NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #2312 of 2987 Old 04-16-2017, 01:23 PM
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So, I'm going an SVS ultra LCR setup and will probably go with prime satellites for surrounds. For atmos, though, I'm planning to repurpose some old Energy Take Classics. They also have a metal dome tweeter. I'll mount them w a bracket (pointed down) and use a round ceiling grill to conceal. It won't look any differently than a standard in-ceiling.

I haven't been too enthused by atmos speaker options that cost under $250/pair. Hopefully, this will work out.
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post #2313 of 2987 Old 04-16-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ironmikey12 View Post
So, I'm going an SVS ultra LCR setup and will probably go with prime satellites for surrounds. For atmos, though, I'm planning to repurpose some old Energy Take Classics. They also have a metal dome tweeter. I'll mount them w a bracket (pointed down) and use a round ceiling grill to conceal. It won't look any differently than a standard in-ceiling.
I'd like to see some pics when your done!

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2314 of 2987 Old 04-16-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmikey12 View Post
So, I'm going an SVS ultra LCR setup and will probably go with prime satellites for surrounds. For atmos, though, I'm planning to repurpose some old Energy Take Classics. They also have a metal dome tweeter. I'll mount them w a bracket (pointed down) and use a round ceiling grill to conceal. It won't look any differently than a standard in-ceiling.
I'd like to see some pics when your done!
I'll start a thread as soon as the speaker wiring starts. Should be an adventure. I'll probably end up scraping the idea but it's worth a shot. Won't cost more than $25 to try out.
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post #2315 of 2987 Old 04-20-2017, 06:47 PM
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Hi everyone,

Can I go with four Atmos speakers in my 15x15 HT room with 10-foot ceilings? I'm going with the AT IC-6 OBA's since I'm rocking the AT 450 series for my 7.1 setup. I appreciate the help!

Last edited by RDalton; 04-20-2017 at 07:50 PM.
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post #2316 of 2987 Old 04-20-2017, 06:51 PM
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Hi everyone,

Can I go with four Atmos speakers in my 15x15 HT room with 10-foot ceilings? I'm going with the AT IC-6 OTA's since I'm rocking the AT 450 series for my 7.1 setup. I appreciate the help!
Sure! I'm using 4 Atmos speakers in a 13' x 16' with 8' ceilings to nice effect. I personally think 10' is even better!
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2317 of 2987 Old 05-02-2017, 01:29 PM
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Good afternoon all,

I have Def. Tech. 8060's for fronts & center with 8040's for surrounds.

I reside in a high rise apartment downtown Los Angeles with concrete ceilings. In-ceiling was obviously not an option.

I have purchased 4 Mythos XTR-20BP's. So far I only have the front 2 set up. The difference this made in the sound stage was HUGE. I can't wait to set up the back two. If you have Def Tech equipment, are not buying into up-firing speakers and have the means, this has proven to be a fantastic low profile alternative.

I had Tannoy's I had planned on mounting but I'm glad I sold those. There is a whole variety of factors that can go into messing up the sound of panning when you start adding different speaker types. Power affecting overall volume level, timber, crossover etc. I am glad to report my timber matching (as expected) is perfect.

I feel like this is a premature post since I've heard the real game changer is 4 ceiling speakers.

I would love any advise or input in getting this current set up even better. Thoughts, comments, concerns... all welcome!

Pioneer SC-LX801: Atmos 5.2.4
Def. Tech. 8060 Fronts & Center - 8040 Surrounds
Def. Tech. XTR-20BP (4) Atmos Ceiling Mounted
Sony 55" XBR850B l Neeo Universal Remote
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post #2318 of 2987 Old 05-07-2017, 08:40 PM
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I just finished reading every post in this thread. It took a few weeks. I feel like I deserve a prize!

I asked about Def Tech ceiling speakers in the Definitive Owner's Thread and got a few responses, but I though I'd give it another go over here.

I am a very long time Definitive owner. About six months ago I replaced my ancient B&K Reference 20 pre/pro with a Marantz SR7010 receiver with Atmos 7.1.4 capability. I'm looking to do four ceiling Atmos speakers in the not too distant future. My first thought is to stick with Definitive for the best timbre match and go with DI series 6.5" or 8" coaxials, but I am open to considering other options. I want something that will keep up with the rest of my system so I'm not considering any of the discount speakers people seem to like such as the Micca.

Here is my current setup.
BP2000 mains.
CLR2000 center.
BPX bipolar side surrounds.
Marantz SR7010. Using as a pre-amp for the ear level speakers. The receiver amps will power the Atmos speakers, though.
B&K 2-channel amp for the mains.
B&K 6-channel amp for the center and surrounds.
(No standalone subs. I've always felt like the 15" powered subs in the BP2000s were enough for my room.)

The B&K Reference 20 was a 5.1 processor. After many months of watching eBay, I recently picked up a second mint pair of BPX speakers to go to 7 channels, but I haven't hooked them up yet. It wasn't until the day after I purchased those that I really started to think through and research future upgrades and it occurred to me that maybe bipolars aren't the best option for the new object oriented 3-D audio formats. Perhaps I should have sold my BPX speakers and picked up four Def Tech Mythos or Studio Monitor surrounds instead. Now that I have them, I figure I might as well see how Atmos sounds with bipolar surrounds before I consider selling them. A few people in the Def Tech thread did say that they are perfectly satisfied with bipolar surrounds in their Atmos systems.

I currently have a suspended ceiling, but I'm looking to replace that with drywall sometime in the next few months. That's when I'll do the Atmos speakers. I'm hoping to take the ceiling up to 8', but there are some complicating issues that may force me to stay at the height of the current ceiling, which is about 7' 9". Reading through the Dolby Atmos white paper and this thread, it's clear that speakers with at least 90° dispersion are recommended for optimal results. The DI series in-ceiling speakers all say they have wide dispersion characteristics, but Definitive doesn't give any numbers or graphs on their website. I only have one 3 person sofa that I care about covering so perhaps this isn't as critical as it is for others with multiple rows of seating. Maybe some of the more directional designs like the RSL C34E that everyone seems to love would serve me just as well as Def Tech and at a lower price point. The Atlantic Technology IC-6OBA-S is also on my radar for the unique dipolar tweeter design that is supposed to reduce hotspotting, but I'm not sure if it's a good timbre match or if I need to spend the extra money to adequately cover one sofa.

Ideally I'd like to cross my Atmos speakers over at 80 HZ. The 6.5" probably doesn't get me there and I don't see any way the RSLs could play that low. This is not an absolute deal breaker, though. I could probably live with 100 or 120 Hz. I'll make custom back boxes both for reducing sound leakage into the room above and to get good FR.

@Jonas2 , any further thoughts on your DI 8Rs after living with them for a bit longer? Have you settled on a final crossover point? You might have said already, but how are your tweeters pointed? At the MLP? Have you experimented with the tweeter aiming much or did you just set it and forget it?

@doublewing11 , I saw that you considered Def Tech speakers. Do you recall what you found to be their shortcomings? Do you feel they'd be a decent option for me since I don't have to cover a large area? Did you save any measurements you made or any specs you obtained for them?
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Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
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Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
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post #2319 of 2987 Old 05-08-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
I currently have a suspended ceiling, but I'm looking to replace that with drywall sometime in the next few months. That's when I'll do the Atmos speakers. I'm hoping to take the ceiling up to 8', but there are some complicating issues that may force me to stay at the height of the current ceiling, which is about 7' 9". Reading through the Dolby Atmos white paper and this thread, it's clear that speakers with at least 90° dispersion are recommended for optimal results. The DI series in-ceiling speakers all say they have wide dispersion characteristics, but Definitive doesn't give any numbers or graphs on their website. I only have one 3 person sofa that I care about covering so perhaps this isn't as critical as it is for others with multiple rows of seating. Maybe some of the more directional designs like the RSL C34E that everyone seems to love would serve me just as well as Def Tech and at a lower price point. The Atlantic Technology IC-6OBA-S is also on my radar for the unique dipolar tweeter design that is supposed to reduce hotspotting, but I'm not sure if it's a good timbre match or if I need to spend the extra money to adequately cover one sofa.

Ideally I'd like to cross my Atmos speakers over at 80 HZ. The 6.5" probably doesn't get me there and I don't see any way the RSLs could play that low. This is not an absolute deal breaker, though. I could probably live with 100 or 120 Hz. I'll make custom back boxes both for reducing sound leakage into the room above and to get good FR.

@Jonas2 , any further thoughts on your DI 8Rs after living with them for a bit longer? Have you settled on a final crossover point? You might have said already, but how are your tweeters pointed? At the MLP? Have you experimented with the tweeter aiming much or did you just set it and forget it?
So, I like you, have single 3-person sofa, working with an 8' ceiling. All of my speakers are crossed over at 80Hz, and I've done little experimenting thus far beyond that - Anthem ARC seems happy, and I like what I'm hearing. At least for Atmos duty, and they are quite pleasing as well in music upmixing, I very much like the ambience they are delivering, and they blend well with my mains and side surrounds. I think timbre-matching of sides and Atmos speakers, while somewhat important, is over-rated, especially if you are using quality speakers and of a similar tweeter design. This is my opinion, please keep that in mind - but I think if you chose OTHER than DefTech in-ceilings, you will be fine.

Are they the BEST speakers in the world? No, of course not, but for the price I paid, I'm happy, and these were a good all around compromise of quality (high), fitment for my space, power handling (overkill), and price (moderate). I'm confident that I could have done a lot worse for more money! When I first set them up, I did not have the tweeters aimed at MLP. I do now, but I honestly don't know that I can tell the difference, so maybe that does speak to good dispersion characteristics or I have crappy hearing? I'm leaving them aimed for now. Actually, they are not PRECISELY aimed at MLP; the right ones are aimed about mid-way between MLP and right side sofa seat, and then same with the left.

ATMOS tracks and music upmixing seem to be so immersive in nature, that it is hard to pinpoint any of the in-ceilings unless I'm literally standing under one, but that'd be like standing two or so feet away from any speaker - you'll know it's there. Seated? No real issues there. My install is not "text book", but I did my best within the constraints of my space and final aesthetics to adhere to the Dolby recommendations.

Please keep in mind, YMMV.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2320 of 2987 Old 05-08-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
So, I like you, have single 3-person sofa, working with an 8' ceiling. All of my speakers are crossed over at 80Hz, and I've done little experimenting thus far beyond that - Anthem ARC seems happy, and I like what I'm hearing. At least for Atmos duty, and they are quite pleasing as well in music upmixing, I very much like the ambience they are delivering, and they blend well with my mains and side surrounds. I think timbre-matching of sides and Atmos speakers, while somewhat important, is over-rated, especially if you are using quality speakers and of a similar tweeter design. This is my opinion, please keep that in mind - but I think if you chose OTHER than DefTech in-ceilings, you will be fine.

Are they the BEST speakers in the world? No, of course not, but for the price I paid, I'm happy, and these were a good all around compromise of quality (high), fitment for my space, power handling (overkill), and price (moderate). I'm confident that I could have done a lot worse for more money! When I first set them up, I did not have the tweeters aimed at MLP. I do now, but I honestly don't know that I can tell the difference, so maybe that does speak to good dispersion characteristics or I have crappy hearing? I'm leaving them aimed for now. Actually, they are not PRECISELY aimed at MLP; the right ones are aimed about mid-way between MLP and right side sofa seat, and then same with the left.

ATMOS tracks and music upmixing seem to be so immersive in nature, that it is hard to pinpoint any of the in-ceilings unless I'm literally standing under one, but that'd be like standing two or so feet away from any speaker - you'll know it's there. Seated? No real issues there. My install is not "text book", but I did my best within the constraints of my space and final aesthetics to adhere to the Dolby recommendations.

Please keep in mind, YMMV.
Thanks @Jonas2 . Great to hear that your are still loving them! I got your PM, but the system won't let me respond until I have 15+ forum posts. This is #13. Soon!

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
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post #2321 of 2987 Old 05-08-2017, 12:40 PM
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Thanks @Jonas2 . Great to hear that your are still loving them! I got your PM, but the system won't let me respond until I have 15+ forum posts. This is #13. Soon!
Almost there!

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2322 of 2987 Old 05-08-2017, 10:33 PM
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HOw about some suggestions for Atmos Speakers.

Current setup is A3060. Going for 7.2.4 setup. I have a 500W amp 2 channel so I can get all 11 channels as the A3060 only does 7.2.2 from the AVR.
MY setup is all energy. CF70 and RC LCR front stage. RC-R and RC-10 for surrounds.
Wanting to get 4 Atmos in ceiling speakers. Recommendations? (9 foot ceilings)
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post #2323 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Comp1demon View Post
HOw about some suggestions for Atmos Speakers.

Current setup is A3060. Going for 7.2.4 setup. I have a 500W amp 2 channel so I can get all 11 channels as the A3060 only does 7.2.2 from the AVR.
MY setup is all energy. CF70 and RC LCR front stage. RC-R and RC-10 for surrounds.
Wanting to get 4 Atmos in ceiling speakers. Recommendations? (9 foot ceilings)
Well, as someone who has spent the last few weeks reading this entire thread I can tell you what has gotten the most mentions.

Budget:
Micca M-8C
Lots of people with higher end ear level speakers are pleased with these for Atmos.

Mid-range:
RSL C34E
A bit more expensive than the Miccas, but still very affordable and seem to be very well built. A good bargain that performs better than it's price seems to be the consensus.

Higher end:
Atlantic Technology IC-6 OBA
Popular choice for people with lower ceilings. The unique dipolar tweeter design is said to reduce hotspotting issues.

The best:
KEF Ci200RR-THX
Extremely wide dispersion and great low frequency extension. KEF also makes lower priced speakers that use a similar design that might be worth a look.

and

Revel C763L.
One poster said it is the Atmos speaker commonly used in studios that create home Atmos mixes.

Many have simply stayed with the brand they have for their main speakers. I, myself, am currently considering Def Tech ceiling speakers to go with the rest of my system.

It looks like Energy makes a couple of in ceiling coaxials that you might want to consider for a perfect timbre match. I don't recall any mention of them in this thread, though. No idea how wide the dispersion is. You could try talking to Energy or a local Energy dealer.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

Last edited by kdjohn3; 05-09-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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post #2324 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp1demon View Post
HOw about some suggestions for Atmos Speakers.

Current setup is A3060. Going for 7.2.4 setup. I have a 500W amp 2 channel so I can get all 11 channels as the A3060 only does 7.2.2 from the AVR.
MY setup is all energy. CF70 and RC LCR front stage. RC-R and RC-10 for surrounds.
Wanting to get 4 Atmos in ceiling speakers. Recommendations? (9 foot ceilings)
When I had my Energy RC series I tried and tried to find some used in ceiling RC's. Those are even more rare than the RC-R's. I ended up going with Definitive Technology DI6.5i. They were a very good timbre match for my RC series and have good dispersion. I now have Monitor Audio for my bed layer and they still match very well. I guess if you're OCD you could look around for some Energy in ceilings but timbre matching is less important for the height speakers than the bed layer. In fact, I've seen some folks here with all kinds of different brands of bed layer speakers, cheap to expensive, running the RSL's.
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post #2325 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 08:08 AM
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Yep, I have 4 RSL C34e with Revel speakers lineup; didn't want to pay Revel $ for Atmos in-ceilings, the RSLs are plenty good & VG value

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 500NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #2326 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 11:32 AM
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Yep, I have 4 RSL C34e with Revel speakers lineup; didn't want to pay Revel $ for Atmos in-ceilings, the RSLs are plenty good & VG value
Same here, got the DefTechs for significantly less than the Revels. That C763L is undoubtedly a fine speaker, but I think they're pushing $500.00+ each! They were also too big for my space. I did test out a Revel C763 though. Would have been just fine, and I'd be happy if they were in my ceiling, but for my subjective sound tastes I had to give a bit of an edge to the DefTech, totally a personal preference.

If one had no choice but to use in-ceilings for their complete sound system, go all out, but for Atmos? The wallet need not be put into a state of pain. That said, at least spend more than $15.99 / speaker.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #2327 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 11:40 AM
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Yep Jonas; and I'm 80-20% to music so why blow mega $ on 4 Atmos speakers!! They do sound good for 9 channel listening also, but any serious music listening I'm usually 2.1 set-up or at times 5.1

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 500NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #2328 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 12:24 PM
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An "in ceiling" speaker install doesn't work for me right now. How would ceiling mounted small/satellite speakers work for an Atmos 5.1.4 setup?

Speaker options I'm considering ...
- Cambridge Audio Minx 22 - small and comes in white
- KEF T101 - flat and comes in white

(I heard the Focal Dome - best sounding satellite speaker I've every heard and looks great, but more that I want to spend right now.)

9' ceilings ...
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post #2329 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 12:31 PM
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Yep Jonas; and I'm 80-20% to music so why blow mega $ on 4 Atmos speakers!! They do sound good for 9 channel listening also, but any serious music listening I'm usually 2.1 set-up or at times 5.1
Indeed! You've got a nice pair of mains for music listening.

But I am definitely finding multi-channel music more and more enticing. I really like what I'm hearing with 9 channels as well, depending on the type of music of course.

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post #2330 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 12:51 PM
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Thx Jonas; and agree on multi-channel at times. I find VG for background music and 5.1 is great with surround coded SACDs; I have Brothers in Arms & The Who's Tommy in 5.1 and they both sound awesome with my Revels F206s and M16s

Enjoy your good system also!!!
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post #2331 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
Well, as someone who has spent the last few weeks reading this entire thread....
You've seem to have done a lot of research so I'm going to gear this question toward you

I recently installed a surround set-up at my church consisting of the M-8C's. I put three up front (L/C/R) and two surrounds. I have an older Pioneer driving them. I set the L/R at large and all the rest at small with XO at 80Hz. Needless to say, I was blow away by these cheap suckers.

Installing them got me to really thinking about my own living room set-up. I do NOT have an Atmos receiver YET. I'm thinking about something equivalent to a Denon X4100/X3100 and have even looked at Integra. So... once I get an atmos receiver, I'd like to do a 5.2.4 system. Currently, my 5 speaker system consists of NHT Classic series bookshelf speakers. I have the Threes up front and the Twos hanging from the ceiling to the rear. I'm certainly not opposed to upgrading these but if I kept them I noticed NHT has three different options for in-ceiling speakers, there flagship being the iC4-ARC In-Ceiling Speaker.

Given what you have researched on the subject, what do you think of the iC4-ARC In-Ceiling Speaker? Is it the type of speaker suited for Atmos?

Lastly, I'm really interested in the subject of custom built boxes. I have reasearched all the options (it seems) for pre-manufacturered boxes but nothing has caught my eye. What are you recommendations? Do you think the M-8C's I installed at my church need boxes? If so, how would you recommend building them? I have made a subwoofer from a flat pack before, so I have considered flat pack speaker boxes. But I'm not opposed to actually investing in a table saw if I go the in-ceiling route at home.
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post #2332 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post
An "in ceiling" speaker install doesn't work for me right now. How would ceiling mounted small/satellite speakers work for an Atmos 5.1.4 setup?

Speaker options I'm considering ...
- Cambridge Audio Minx 22 - small and comes in white
- KEF T101 - flat and comes in white

(I heard the Focal Dome - best sounding satellite speaker I've every heard and looks great, but more that I want to spend right now.)

9' ceilings ...
There is no reason on ceiling satellites can't work fine. For something that is going to be hung on mounts and aimed at the listening position I would think that the extra wide 90 degree dispersion recommended by Dolby is not as important as with down firing in ceiling speakers. For something that is going to be mounted flat against the ceiling, you'll still want wide dispersion. Something like the KEF T101 might be designed with wider horizontal dispersion than vertical. You'll want to look into that and orient the speaker placement accordingly.

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post #2333 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
You've seem to have done a lot of research so I'm going to gear this question toward you

I recently installed a surround set-up at my church consisting of the M-8C's. I put three up front (L/C/R) and two surrounds. I have an older Pioneer driving them. I set the L/R at large and all the rest at small with XO at 80Hz. Needless to say, I was blow away by these cheap suckers.

Installing them got me to really thinking about my own living room set-up. I do NOT have an Atmos receiver YET. I'm thinking about something equivalent to a Denon X4100/X3100 and have even looked at Integra. So... once I get an atmos receiver, I'd like to do a 5.2.4 system. Currently, my 5 speaker system consists of NHT Classic series bookshelf speakers. I have the Threes up front and the Twos hanging from the ceiling to the rear. I'm certainly not opposed to upgrading these but if I kept them I noticed NHT has three different options for in-ceiling speakers, there flagship being the iC4-ARC In-Ceiling Speaker.

Given what you have researched on the subject, what do you think of the iC4-ARC In-Ceiling Speaker? Is it the type of speaker suited for Atmos?

Lastly, I'm really interested in the subject of custom built boxes. I have reasearched all the options (it seems) for pre-manufacturered boxes but nothing has caught my eye. What are you recommendations? Do you think the M-8C's I installed at my church need boxes? If so, how would you recommend building them? I have made a subwoofer from a flat pack before, so I have considered flat pack speaker boxes. But I'm not opposed to actually investing in a table saw if I go the in-ceiling route at home.
I've never heard the Miccas myself. Most in-ceiling speakers are designed to work fine without back boxes which is known as infinite baffle design. Some will perform even better with a box, but you'll want to talk to the manufacturer and get a recommendation on volume if you go that route. Might be tough with an internet only Chinese vendor like Micca. If you are happy with the performance of the Miccas as is and you're not concerned about sound leakage into other rooms, then I'd say you don't need to worry about it. If you don't have easy access to the other side such as an attic above an in ceiling installation location or an unfinished room behind an in wall location then you are talking about cutting out chunks of your wall/ceiling to install boxes and then doing drywall patch work unless you do something like this Dynamat Dynabox. Each Dynabox is considerably more expensive than a Micca and the volume may or may not be a good match. You could order one and see if it's an improvement or not.

As for your church crossover settings, why not run all the speakers as full range if you don't have a sub? You're just making the L/R speakers work harder than the rest with no payoff. Of course adding a good sub and crossing them all over at 80 Hz would be even better.

For your home setup, the NHT iC4-ARC looks like a winner. The 3 tweeter design is interesting. It must have good off axis high frequency response and at that price I'd certainly like to think the woofer can keep up. That said, I haven't heard them so I can't fully endorse them. I have heard NHT towers and I like them. Again, I say ask NHT about back boxes. Maybe they make them and they should certainly be able to recommend a volume if you want to make your own. I'll probably go with Definitive and build boxes out of MDF. I think someone on here said they used weather stripping and adhesive to seal the box to the drywall. I was thinking I might just use caulk.

You say that your NHT surround speakers are hanging from the ceiling. That's not going to work well with Atmos. The surrounds need to be as close to ear level as possible. You need separation between the bed level and the Atmos ceiling speakers in order to create the immersive 360 degree sound field.

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Speaker Placement
Click the arrow to see the second top view diagram for in ceiling recommendations. Scroll down for the side view diagram.
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Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
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post #2334 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
I've never heard the Miccas myself. Most in-ceiling speakers are designed to work fine without back boxes which is known as infinite baffle design. Some will perform even better with a box, but you'll want to talk to the manufacturer and get a recommendation on volume if you go that route. Might be tough with an internet only Chinese vendor like Micca. If you are happy with the performance of the Miccas as is and you're not concerned about sound leakage into other rooms, then I'd say you don't need to worry about it. If you don't have easy access to the other side such as an attic above an in ceiling installation location or an unfinished room behind an in wall location then you are talking about cutting out chunks of your wall/ceiling to install boxes and then doing drywall patch work unless you do something like this Dynamat Dynabox. Each Dynabox is considerably more expensive than a Micca and the volume may or may not be a good match. You could order one and see if it's an improvement or not.

As for your church crossover settings, why not run all the speakers as full range if you don't have a sub? You're just making the L/R speakers work harder than the rest with no payoff. Of course adding a good sub and crossing them all over at 80 Hz would be even better.

For your home setup, the NHT iC4-ARC looks like a winner. The 3 tweeter design is interesting. It must have good off axis high frequency response and at that price I'd certainly like to think the woofer can keep up. That said, I haven't heard them so I can't fully endorse them. I have heard NHT towers and I like them. Again, I say ask NHT about back boxes. Maybe they make them and they should certainly be able to recommend a volume if you want to make your own. I'll probably go with Definitive and build boxes out of MDF. I think someone on here said they used weather stripping and adhesive to seal the box to the drywall. I was thinking I might just use caulk.

You say that your NHT surround speakers are hanging from the ceiling. That's not going to work well with Atmos. The surrounds need to be as close to ear level as possible. You need separation between the bed level and the Atmos ceiling speakers in order to create the immersive 360 degree sound field.

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 Speaker Placement
Click the arrow to see the second top view diagram for in ceiling recommendations. Scroll down for the side view diagram.
Thanks for the response. I checked out that link. I didn't even consider having my rears hanging from the ceiling would reduce the effect. Well... considering it would be a nightmare to wire them in on the ground, what if I opted for a 5.1.2 system set up and had the in-ceiling speakers above the main couch?

I checked out those Dynabox's and they're very expensive. I'd opt to build them like you. I have plenty of attic space in both my home and at the church. Speaking of the church, the reason I opted to have the front L/R set to large, and the rest set to small, is simply because having them all set to large I can almost guarantee would over work the AVR. It has been preached over and over that having too little power WILL damage the speakers way before having too much power. The old Pioneer AVR does not have pre-out's for an external amplifier. So we will be stuck with this situation until the AVR breaks or someone donates to the church's IT department fund
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post #2335 of 2987 Old 05-09-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Thanks for the response. I checked out that link. I didn't even consider having my rears hanging from the ceiling would reduce the effect. Well... considering it would be a nightmare to wire them in on the ground, what if I opted for a 5.1.2 system set up and had the in-ceiling speakers above the main couch?

I checked out those Dynabox's and they're very expensive. I'd opt to build them like you. I have plenty of attic space in both my home and at the church. Speaking of the church, the reason I opted to have the front L/R set to large, and the rest set to small, is simply because having them all set to large I can almost guarantee would over work the AVR. It has been preached over and over that having too little power WILL damage the speakers way before having too much power. The old Pioneer AVR does not have pre-out's for an external amplifier. So we will be stuck with this situation until the AVR breaks or someone donates to the church's IT department fund
You'd still have the same problem of no vertical separation between surround and Atmos speakers. If your budget is limited you'd be better off settling for less expensive Atmos speakers like the RSLs and spending some money on an electrician or professional A/V installer to run new wires for your surrounds. If you have easy attic access it might not be as hard as you think. Another option is hiding wires behind baseboards. Often when you pop them off there is a gap between the drywall and floor that your speaker wire will easily fit into. Sometimes you have to trim an inch off the drywall. Nail the baseboards back in place when you're done and all your wiring is hidden. Hopefully you have a spot on your back or side walls where your speakers will fit. You could also put them on speaker stands. You can run the wires in wall to a plate like this right where your stands would go:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3324
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7013
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Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
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Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

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post #2336 of 2987 Old 05-10-2017, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
You'd still have the same problem of no vertical separation between surround and Atmos speakers. If your budget is limited you'd be better off settling for less expensive Atmos speakers like the RSLs and spending some money on an electrician or professional A/V installer to run new wires for your surrounds. If you have easy attic access it might not be as hard as you think. Another option is hiding wires behind baseboards. Often when you pop them off there is a gap between the drywall and floor that your speaker wire will easily fit into. Sometimes you have to trim an inch off the drywall. Nail the baseboards back in place when you're done and all your wiring is hidden. Hopefully you have a spot on your back or side walls where your speakers will fit. You could also put them on speaker stands. You can run the wires in wall to a plate like this right where your stands would go:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3324
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7013
Definitely some things to think about. Speaker stands aren't an option according to my wife. Because of our open room, they'd be in the way a bit. But, in-wall speakers might work. I don't think I could go any lower then above the light switch on one of the walls though. So that'd be getting close to being to high probably?

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post #2337 of 2987 Old 05-10-2017, 01:07 AM
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Has there been any new high end in ceiling Atmos speaker with an aimable fabric dome tweeter released?

Last edited by G-Rex; 05-10-2017 at 02:19 AM.
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post #2338 of 2987 Old 05-10-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Definitely some things to think about. Speaker stands aren't an option according to my wife. Because of our open room, they'd be in the way a bit. But, in-wall speakers might work. I don't think I could go any lower then above the light switch on one of the walls though. So that'd be getting close to being to high probably?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
The closer you can get to ear level the better, but I think light switch level would be close enough to work pretty well.

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post #2339 of 2987 Old 05-15-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Has there been any new high end in ceiling Atmos speaker with an aimable fabric dome tweeter released?
I have zero experience with this company, but LSA has an in-ceiling with a pivotable 1" silk dome tweeter that they are supposedly selling factory direct for $199/pr. A quick search on LSA brings up a few favorable reviews of their bookshelf offerings. Compared to the fact that their other speakers are so expensive, this actually seems like a bargain. Comes with 5 year warranty too. They don't tell you what the power handling is though, unfortunately.

I am considering these myself but I don't know if the silk domes will play nicely with my ribbons in my Emotiva T1's and C1 center. Anyone out there tried this type of combo?

Here is the LSA website:

http://thelsagroup.com/

And here is where I found the pricing (just scroll all the way to the bottom):

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/lsa-group

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post #2340 of 2987 Old 05-15-2017, 12:25 PM
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Thanks for the links.
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