Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos? - Page 80 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 855Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2371 of 2987 Old 06-07-2017, 04:25 PM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidLight View Post
Unfortunately what is done, is done. I went with the RSS II's because I had no good locations for ear level surrounds, and they are specifically designed to sound like they are ear level, even though they are not. I will go above $150 if I have to. I was looking at Tannoys because of this thread. But don't know how well the steel enclosure prevents noise transmission.
I'm a Definitive owner myself. I'm familiar with their in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. It's actually the UIW RCS II that features their Wave Launch™ design with angled baffles to make you think the sound is coming from lower than the ceiling. While I'm sure the UIW RSS II gives you great room filling sound with it's bipolar design, it's not really designed to sound like it's coming from lower down. Even if you did have RCS II speakers, it wouldn't really be a substitute for true ear level surrounds.

UIW RCS II:


UIW RSS II:


If you could post photos and/or a diagram of your room then perhaps I or someone else here might have some ideas you haven't thought of.

While Dolby's recommendations call for direct radiating speakers for Atmos, I've actually pondered how bipolar in-ceiling speakers like the RSS II would sound for the height channels. I'm guessing it would actually work quite well. A number of people in the Definitive Owners Thread have indicated that they are quite pleased with Dolby Atmos performance with ear level bipolar fronts and surrounds despite Dolby's recommendation, but I haven't seen anyone say they have bipolar Atmos ceiling speakers yet. If there was a way for you to repurpose your UIW RSS II speakers as rear heights, add a second set for front heights and figure out a way to add side and/or rear surrounds at ear level, that would be ideal. Pics showing the current location of the RSS speakers in relation to the seating area as well as other wide shots of the room would help us help you.

By the way, I don't have Atmos speakers yet, but I've been leaning towards getting DI 8R speakers and making custom back boxes for them.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
kdjohn3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2372 of 2987 Old 06-08-2017, 09:53 PM
Member
 
LucidLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Pictures. Ignore the Bose speakers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160514_024036_1496983925214.jpg
Views:	370
Size:	165.0 KB
ID:	2180137   Click image for larger version

Name:	20170609_002644_1496983948229.jpg
Views:	260
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	2180145  
LucidLight is offline  
post #2373 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 12:09 AM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidLight View Post
Pictures. Ignore the Bose speakers.
It looks like those ceiling speakers are close to being even with the seating. Is that right? If so, they'd probably do well as the Atmos speakers in a 5.1.2 setup. The Dolby recommendation is to place the ceiling Atmos speakers slightly in front of the MLP, but even with the seating wouldn't be too bad.



Clearly in-wall side surrounds are not an option with the open staircase, but you could certainly make on wall or on stand speakers work if you and others in the house would be okay with that aesthetically. ProMonitor speakers are relatively small and come in black or white. bajawaverunner usually has refurbished ones for sale on eBay for a good price. You could certainly consider used BP1.2X, BP2X, BPX or BPVX speakers as well if you want to stick with bipolar surrounds and are okay with black. And there are SR9040 or SR9080 speakers if you want new. New or used Mythos or Studio Monitor speakers are also options. It just depends on how much you want to spend, how big you want to go and if the significant other will be okay with speakers that aren't in wall.

I sketched in some speakers on stands in your photo, but you could also take down that artwork on the right and stick a side surround there and squeeze one in on the left wall somewhere.



The Atmos results will be dramatically better if you add ear level side surrounds rather than going with a second set of ceiling speakers. Vertical separation between heights and surrounds is the way it's engineered to work.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
kdjohn3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2374 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 12:29 PM
Member
 
Mrbonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 12
What are the best Polk speakers? I get half off might as well roll with them. Also would getting two of the best offset the fact that I'm only putting 2 instead 4 in ceiling?

Last edited by Mrbonus; 06-09-2017 at 12:40 PM.
Mrbonus is offline  
post #2375 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 04:32 PM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbonus View Post
What are the best Polk speakers? I get half off might as well roll with them. Also would getting two of the best offset the fact that I'm only putting 2 instead 4 in ceiling?
4 is better than 2. More speakers means sounds can be placed more precisely in 3D space. If you have space and money for 4 you should do it.

Polk has a wide range of in ceiling options. I'll let someone who is more familiar with their lines comment on which would be the best performers for Atmos. Wide dispersion and timbre match with your ear level speakers are two things you want to look for.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
kdjohn3 is offline  
post #2376 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 07:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northern NJ & Myrtle Beach area, SC
Posts: 2,140
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Good Polk value is RC80i; I love mine & check online reviews that are excellent

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 500NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
yanks1 is offline  
post #2377 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 09:26 PM
Member
 
Mrbonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
4 is better than 2. More speakers means sounds can be placed more precisely in 3D space. If you have space and money for 4 you should do it.

Polk has a wide range of in ceiling options. I'll let someone who is more familiar with their lines comment on which would be the best performers for Atmos. Wide dispersion and timbre match with your ear level speakers are two things you want to look for.
I really want to but man those 9 channel recievers are pricey!
Mrbonus is offline  
post #2378 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 09:34 PM
Member
 
Mrbonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Good Polk value is RC80i; I love mine & check online reviews that are excellent
Those seem decent from reading about them will prolly just end up going with the mc80 or 70rt
Mrbonus is offline  
post #2379 of 2987 Old 06-09-2017, 11:17 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I just installed a Denon 4300 Receiver keeping my existing Atlantic Technology 351 THX 5.1 speakers (about 15 years old). I would like to go ahead and upgrade to Atmos 5.1.4 with ceiling speakers and am looking for recommendations which would be best. AT is still around and offers ceiling speakers, but they would run over $1200 and I'm not even sure they would match the 351s sound-wise.
JohnKeller is offline  
post #2380 of 2987 Old 06-10-2017, 12:32 AM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKeller View Post
I just installed a Denon 4300 Receiver keeping my existing Atlantic Technology 351 THX 5.1 speakers (about 15 years old). I would like to go ahead and upgrade to Atmos 5.1.4 with ceiling speakers and am looking for recommendations which would be best. AT is still around and offers ceiling speakers, but they would run over $1200 and I'm not even sure they would match the 351s sound-wise.
See this post for my summary of this thread with a few suggestions at different price points.

Speaker manufacturers usually don't change their signature sound much over time. I'm guessing the newer AT speakers would still be a pretty good timbre match for your old ones. I see a couple of sellers on Amazon offering the IC-6 OBA in the $200 range. eBay as well.

Many are perfectly satisfied with the RSL C34E if you want to go a bit less expensive, but they do require a rather large hole and their website shows that they are currently out of stock. They are very popular. They sell them about as fast as they can make them.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon
kdjohn3 is offline  
post #2381 of 2987 Old 06-10-2017, 02:45 PM
Senior Member
 
ironmikey12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 360
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKeller View Post
I just installed a Denon 4300 Receiver keeping my existing Atlantic Technology 351 THX 5.1 speakers (about 15 years old). I would like to go ahead and upgrade to Atmos 5.1.4 with ceiling speakers and am looking for recommendations which would be best. AT is still around and offers ceiling speakers, but they would run over $1200 and I'm not even sure they would match the 351s sound-wise.
See this post for my summary of this thread with a few suggestions at different price points.

Speaker manufacturers usually don't change their signature sound much over time. I'm guessing the newer AT speakers would still be a pretty good timbre match for your old ones. I see a couple of sellers on Amazon offering the IC-6 OBA in the $200 range. eBay as well.

Many are perfectly satisfied with the RSL C34E if you want to go a bit less expensive, but they do require a rather large hole and their website shows that they are currently out of stock. They are very popular. They sell them about as fast as they can make them.
Worth calling RSL to see if they have any new returns. I did that and they found me a pair of grade A outlets. Save $25 and they looked flawless. I have not installed yet but they sound solid even in their cardboard boxes.

Super nice guys over there
thomasfxlt and yanks1 like this.
ironmikey12 is offline  
post #2382 of 2987 Old 06-10-2017, 07:50 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks kdjohn3; now I wonder if anyone has any experience with these sellers. I hate the thought of buying gray-market.
JohnKeller is offline  
post #2383 of 2987 Old 06-10-2017, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
socalsharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKeller View Post
Thanks kdjohn3; now I wonder if anyone has any experience with these sellers. I hate the thought of buying gray-market.
A talk to @jdsmoothie at AV Science. He hooked me up with 4 of the Atlantic IC6 OBA atmos speakers for about what you're seeing on eBay.r
socalsharky is offline  
post #2384 of 2987 Old 06-12-2017, 04:13 PM
Member
 
LucidLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
It looks like those ceiling speakers are close to being even with the seating. Is that right? If so, they'd probably do well as the Atmos speakers in a 5.1.2 setup. The Dolby recommendation is to place the ceiling Atmos speakers slightly in front of the MLP, but even with the seating wouldn't be too bad.
They are about 2 feet behind the main listening position (I could not go farther back do to AC ductwork). I talked to support at Definitive Technology and they firmly stated re-purposing the RSS ii's as the rear ceiling Dolby Atmos was not recommended. So I had given up on the that idea, plus the fact I spent way too much on them to just use them in that manner.

I was going to put the atmos speakers about midway between front and rear sound speakers, since a have seating wrapped all away around the room to about 3 feet from the fronts. So that is why I was looking for a very large dispersion angle. Would this not be a good strategy? So far I have yet to see a enclosed coaxial speaker with 90+ angle. Does any one knows of one?
LucidLight is offline  
post #2385 of 2987 Old 06-12-2017, 05:32 PM
DR9
Member
 
DR9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What about the GoldenEar? Invisa HTR 7000 and MPX (Multipolar) worth spending $2000 for ceiling speakers? I was thinking of buying Triton 1 or 2+s.

Thanks!
DR9 is offline  
post #2386 of 2987 Old 06-12-2017, 06:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR9 View Post
What about the GoldenEar? Invisa HTR 7000 and MPX (Multipolar) worth spending $2000 for ceiling speakers? I was thinking of buying Triton 1 or 2+s.

Thanks!
It really depends on your point of view/philosophy! I'd not spend so much on in-ceilings since you can do it quite nicely for a lot less than $2,000. Spend your money on SUBS.... My local HT/Audio specialist is a GE dealer, and I've heard these speakers, and they sound very nice in Atmos duty. They'd be a fine match for Triton mains - BUT - it isn't necessary that you do that. If you've got the budget, by all means, but it is my opinion that speakers for half or less of that MSRP will get you an equally as pleasing Atmos experience.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #2387 of 2987 Old 06-12-2017, 08:41 PM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidLight View Post
They are about 2 feet behind the main listening position (I could not go farther back do to AC ductwork). I talked to support at Definitive Technology and they firmly stated re-purposing the RSS ii's as the rear ceiling Dolby Atmos was not recommended. So I had given up on the that idea, plus the fact I spent way too much on them to just use them in that manner.

I was going to put the atmos speakers about midway between front and rear sound speakers, since a have seating wrapped all away around the room to about 3 feet from the fronts. So that is why I was looking for a very large dispersion angle. Would this not be a good strategy? So far I have yet to see a enclosed coaxial speaker with 90+ angle. Does any one knows of one?
Well, you will get some panning effects by simply adding Atmos speakers in the middle of the ceiling, but you won't get a proper 3D sound field. I wouldn't recommend it. Having both Atmos and surround speakers in ceiling would be like placing surround speakers 4 feet in front of your listening position. You'll still get sounds panning to them, but it's not going to place the sounds where they were intended to be. I'm the kind of person who believes in doing things the right way, even if it means waiting an extra year or two to save up for it.

The RSS is a great speaker, but Dolby does recommend direct radiating speakers for Atmos since the intent is to place sounds as precisely as possible so I'm sure that's why Definitive tech support advised against using it. The RSS is obviously bipolar and not aim-able. While it's not ideal, I still don't think it would be terrible as an Atmos speaker. Having said that...

I know the thought of replacing the RSS speakers is a tough pill to swallow, but if you really want the ultimate Atmos experience it would be for the best. Assuming the grills haven't been painted, you'd be able to get a decent amount for them in the avsforum classifieds, eBay or wherever. You could place four coaxials in ceiling for Atmos. You could pick up some Def Tech Studio Monitors and place them on speaker stands for the ear level surrounds. You could also do Mythos or ProMonitor speakers on stands or on wall. The RSS holes as well as any other holes that would need to be cut to fish new wires for Atmos can be seamlessly patched by a good drywall guy.

I posted the Dolby 5.1.2 diagram before. Here is the 5.1.4 diagram. As it shows, you ideally want the ear level surrounds to be a bit behind the seating and further back than the Top Rear Atmos speakers. If this won't work in your room, it might be better to settle for a 5.1.2 layout. In that case you would put the Atmos speakers a bit in front of the Main Listening Position and the surrounds would be even with or a bit behind the seating if the room allows.



You really want to place your speakers so that you are getting the best experience possible in the main seats opposite the TV. The listening experience is going to be a bit compromised for the side seating no matter how wide the dispersion characteristics of your speakers.

One other thing you could consider is placing up-firing Atmos modules on your little tables in front of the windows instead of in ceiling Atmos speakers. The Definitive A90 is specifically designed to mount on top of Definitive towers, but there are models from other brands that will work as free standing modules such as the Klipsch RP-140SA. There are a some other brands you can check out on this Dolby page. (Use the drop down menu to show speakers only.) While I do think that in ceiling speakers are more convincing, bouncing sound off the ceiling with Atmos modules would probably provide you with a pretty wide coverage area. If you were to do this I'd still recommend that you replace the RSS speakers with ear level surrounds.

You can read through the entire Dolby Atmos Installation Guide if you like.

One other thing. In my opinion, Atmos speakers should be of the same quality as your ear level speakers. While it is currently true that most Atmos mixes are only making use of Atmos speakers for big action sequences, I think in the near future it will be more common for engineers to mix atmospheric background sounds into them. They are likely to become as active as ear level surround speakers. Also, with Dolby Surround upmixing, the Atmos speakers will be extremely active when playing back 5.1 or 7.1 content. You want them to be able to play clean, loud and distortion free if you like to crank the volume near reference level on occasion. That doesn't necessarily mean super expensive. For instance, the RSL seems to be a well made bargain. However, I'd never settle for something any cheaper than that.

A coaxial speaker with an enclosure and 90+ degree dispersion is a tall order. JBL has some options in their pro line that might fit the bill. However, they were designed with distributed audio in mind, not Atmos. They have a phone number right at the top of their home page. You could give them a call and see what they have to say. jblpro.com
pilla75 and Madmax67 like this.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

Last edited by kdjohn3; 06-12-2017 at 09:29 PM.
kdjohn3 is offline  
post #2388 of 2987 Old 06-12-2017, 11:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
bombertodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: So Cal
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post

......

I posted the Dolby 5.1.2 diagram before. Here is the 5.1.4 diagram. As it shows, you ideally want the ear level surrounds to be a bit behind the seating and further back than the Top Rear Atmos speakers. If this won't work in your room, it might be better to settle for a 5.1.2 layout. In that case you would put the Atmos speakers a bit in front of the Main Listening Position and the surrounds would be even with or a bit behind the seating if the room allows.



......
It would be extremely rare for side speakers in a 5.1.4 to be behind rear overhead speakers.


A little bit of math could help us out, example:

If the room was 20 feet wide and 10 feet tall. The listen will be 10 feet from the wall assuming they sit in the middle of the room.

Tan(10)= x/10

x = distance behind LP = about 20 inches


Next

Over head speakers should be located 45 degrees behind LP. Since this is a 45-45-90 special right triangle the distance between ear and ceiling is equal to the distance behind LP.

In a 10 foot room a persons ear will be 3-4 feet from the ground, which leaves 6-7 feet to the ceiling.

So the over head speakers will be 6-7 feet behind the LP while the surrounds will be less than 2.



The more I look at Dolby, DTS, and Aura, I think it's critical to pay attention to the angles and words and not so much the picture. The pictures often aren't to scale or represent the actual design goals.

EDIT:

FWIW, the diagram above has the surrounds at 115 degrees which is outside the range (90-110) specified.
yanks1 and Madmax67 like this.

Klipsch RF-82II, RC-62II
2x Dayton Ultimax 12, Behringer iNUKE3000DSP
Denon 2113ci
New Theater Under Construction

Last edited by bombertodd; 06-12-2017 at 11:20 PM.
bombertodd is offline  
post #2389 of 2987 Old 06-13-2017, 07:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdjohn3 View Post
I posted the Dolby 5.1.2 diagram before. Here is the 5.1.4 diagram. As it shows, you ideally want the ear level surrounds to be a bit behind the seating and further back than the Top Rear Atmos speakers. If this won't work in your room, it might be better to settle for a 5.1.2 layout. In that case you would put the Atmos speakers a bit in front of the Main Listening Position and the surrounds would be even with or a bit behind the seating if the room allows.
I don't think the side surrounds need to be further back than the rear Atmos speakers - that's called rear surrounds. I know, the Dolby diagram displays that and it might work, but that's not how I'd do it, nor is it how I've done it. My sides are a tad behind the listeners, placing them between the front and rear Atmos speakers. I think moving them too far back risks putting sounds in the wrong place or throwing a side-stage that would be somewhat off when sounds are being mixed between fronts and sides relative to what's coming out of an Atmos speaker. Certainly the 7.1.4 layout shows the sides as between the Atmos speakers, and I don't think there's a need to change that in the 5.1.4 layout. Of course, this is my opinion, and we all know results can differ. If you've got movable sides, just experiment - see where it sounds best in a particular space. But if you're wall-mounting in or on, obviously more challenging to do.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #2390 of 2987 Old 06-13-2017, 12:56 PM
Member
 
kdjohn3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Point taken about the math showing that side surrounds most likely wouldn't be behind the rear Atmos speakers if you follow the Dolby angle recommendation to the letter. However, I would disagree with the assertion that "side" surrounds are rarely behind rear Atmos speakers in actual 5.1.4 installations. The fact is that if you only have one set of surround speakers, you hook them up to the "Surround" speaker terminals and not the "Surround Back" terminals. Note that they aren't actually labelled "Side Surround" on receivers and pre/pros nor in Dolby's documentation since information from both the "(side) Surround" and "Surround Back" channels is obviously played from the "Surround" speakers in a 5.1.x system. I've been in the homes of some friends and family members who have 5.1 systems with the surrounds placed on the back wall behind the MLP. If they upgraded to 5.1.4 Atmos, most would likely leave the surrounds where they are and they would therefore be behind the rear Atmos speakers. I'm guessing this is actually a pretty common occurrence in the real world.

Imagine a war scene with a mortar shell sound that is supposed to pan from the center channel to the top front Atmos speakers and then the top rear Atmos speakers and then the surround back speakers so that you hear the shell exploding behind you. In such a case, having the Surround speakers in a 5.1.4 system further back than the Dolby angles show would actually produce an effect that is closer to what was intended in the studio mix. I'm glad I have a 7.1 system so when I go to 7.1.4 I won't have to worry about the best angle compromise for a single set of surrounds.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

Last edited by kdjohn3; 06-13-2017 at 01:17 PM.
kdjohn3 is offline  
post #2391 of 2987 Old 06-14-2017, 06:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
snpanago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 675 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR9 View Post
What about the GoldenEar? Invisa HTR 7000 and MPX (Multipolar) worth spending $2000 for ceiling speakers? I was thinking of buying Triton 1 or 2+s.

Thanks!
I installed 4 Invista HTR 7000 for my in-ceiling atmos speakers and they sound awesome. Spending $500 ea makes sense to me if you have spent at least that or more for each of your front and surround speakers; and as has been mentioned before, you must already have quality, room filling subwoofers.

Another rationalization I use....I went to much trouble and expense to install, wire, and repair drywall for 4 in-ceiling speakers, I'm not about to do this and then use relatively inexpensive speakers.
snpanago is online now  
post #2392 of 2987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by snpanago View Post
I installed 4 Invista HTR 7000 for my in-ceiling atmos speakers and they sound awesome. Spending $500 ea makes sense to me if you have spent at least that or more for each of your front and surround speakers; and as has been mentioned before, you must already have quality, room filling subwoofers.

Another rationalization I use....I went to much trouble and expense to install, wire, and repair drywall for 4 in-ceiling speakers, I'm not about to do this and then use relatively inexpensive speakers.
That is definitely one way to go, especially if you've got the budget. The point is well taken. And for $500.00 each, they'd BETTER sound good! But the other point being, for the purposes of Atmos, inexpensive doesn't necessarily equate to poor results. If on a tighter budget, one would be better off spending less on Atmos speakers, and more on subwoofers and excellent L/R/Cs. Just my opinion.
snpanago likes this.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #2393 of 2987 Old 06-15-2017, 11:32 AM
Member
 
IVRINGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Johnstown, Ohio
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Do the Micca speakers really take 3-5 months to come in? I'm thinking of adding 4 8" for Atmos, but I don't really want to wait, but will I need to double my budget or look at the monoprice or Dayton Audio ones to do something faster? I really would like to get to the 7.1.4 soon. Let me know guys.


My current setup is:


Denon X4300H(Old Yamaha receiver pushing fronts only)
Fronts: Klipsch R-28F
Center: Klipsch R-25C
Sides: Klipsch R-14S
Rear: Klipsch R-14M
Sub: Klipsch Synergy Series 12"(will replace with a marty sub mini or cube)
IVRINGS is offline  
post #2394 of 2987 Old 06-15-2017, 11:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVRINGS View Post
Do the Micca speakers really take 3-5 months to come in? I'm thinking of adding 4 8" for Atmos, but I don't really want to wait, but will I need to double my budget or look at the monoprice or Dayton Audio ones to do something faster? I really would like to get to the 7.1.4 soon. Let me know guys.
What's your preferred budget vs. max. budget?

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #2395 of 2987 Old 06-15-2017, 01:42 PM
Member
 
IVRINGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Johnstown, Ohio
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
What's your preferred budget vs. max. budget?
I didn't really setup a budget(I know not a smart thing). I was ok with the Micca for a total of $200ish to $260ish depending on going with the M-8Cs or R-8Cs. I've now talked to Cory Harrison about some others that puts be into the $800 range. I like the idea and the deal for what is offered, but I think I would like to keep it closer to half of that if I can. That is why I was thinking of the monoprice or something from Dayton. I might have to ask Chris to work with a lower budget since I have alum tweeters now and the overheads would of have Ti ones instead.
IVRINGS is offline  
post #2396 of 2987 Old 06-15-2017, 01:48 PM
Member
 
IVRINGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Johnstown, Ohio
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The C34E might be the ones to go with, but I just looked and those our out of stock right now too...


https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/



Edit...


Just saw the Micca M-8Cs are back in stock.... Hmm...

Last edited by IVRINGS; 06-15-2017 at 01:52 PM.
IVRINGS is offline  
post #2397 of 2987 Old 06-15-2017, 02:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jonas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Bay Area
Posts: 5,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2791 Post(s)
Liked: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVRINGS View Post
The C34E might be the ones to go with, but I just looked and those our out of stock right now too...


https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/



Edit...


Just saw the Micca M-8Cs are back in stock.... Hmm...
The RSLs do seem to come back into stock pretty quickly though, at least from when I've watched them, It's a danged popular speaker! 4 speakers for $500.00, and an excellent trial period/return policy. You might want to wait, do a pre-order for them now to get yourself in line. I know, high end of your budget, but I have yet to read anything negative about these speakers here.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
Jonas2 is offline  
post #2398 of 2987 Old 06-16-2017, 02:37 PM
Member
 
IVRINGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Johnstown, Ohio
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 12
With being close the same in price what would you guys think would work well. I like the idea of staying all Klipsch, but I like the idea of the RSL C34E speakers setups


Klipsch CDT-2800-C II In-Ceiling Speaker


VS


RSL C34E
IVRINGS is offline  
post #2399 of 2987 Old 06-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Member
 
Mrbonus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Can someone recommend me speakercraft or Polk ceiling speakers for atmos. I want the best possible.

Last edited by Mrbonus; 06-21-2017 at 02:33 PM.
Mrbonus is offline  
post #2400 of 2987 Old 06-22-2017, 06:49 AM
Senior Member
 
fonz5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbonus View Post
Can someone recommend me speakercraft or Polk ceiling speakers for atmos. I want the best possible.
I just bought 2 of the Polk MC80's to try out. They seem to be just a step above the RC80i.

I'm so nervous about cutting a hole in the ceiling of our new house. HA!
yanks1 likes this.
fonz5000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
atmos , ceiling speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off