Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 10:47 AM
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Tom, I asked this in the sub thread but wondering how the new speakers may compare to my current setup.

I have Kef q900's and q600c for fronts with mirage omd 15 for rears. These are powered by Denon 3313ci and emotiva xpa-5.
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I still have a 3.0 MBS system in a room at home(the nice ORIGINAL crossovers too). They sound very good. I would say the louder you push the system the more likely you will feel there are audible benefits to a quality high efficiency design. The components used in the MSB design were all very good quality. Really, if you are happy with their performance I wouldn't stress about our new speakers. You know what they say in the NBA....some of the best trades are the ones you never make..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Speakers: PSA 2x MTM210T (Front), MTM210C, 2x MTM210 (Surround), 2x KEF Q900's (Rear), 4x Yamaha NS-IW480CWH (Atmos), SW: PSA triple XS30se(BASH)+miniDSP
AVR: Denon X4300H, Amp: Emotiva XPA-5
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post #32 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flydeep View Post
Tom, I asked this in the sub thread but wondering how the new speakers may compare to my current setup.

I have Kef q900's and q600c for fronts with mirage omd 15 for rears. These are powered by Denon 3313ci and emotiva xpa-5.
You are probably in the same ball park as me. The Kef's probably sound amazing to about -5, once you start to crank them up to -0 and above the lose a bit of their sound signature. I think it all boils down to what you want from your speakers. If you want ultra clean reference capable play back it is time to sell the KEF's. If you never plan on listening at those levels then do not fix what is not broke.

Tom can probably comment in further detail. I for some reason find myself hitting the refresh button every 5min to stay up on the latest. So pardon me if I am post whoring at the moment.
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post #33 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You are probably in the same ball park as me. The Kef's probably sound amazing to about -5, once you start to crank them up to -0 and above the lose a bit of their sound signature. I think it all boils down to what you want from your speakers. If you want ultra clean reference capable play back it is time to sell the KEF's. If you never plan on listening at those levels then do not fix what is not broke.

Tom can probably comment in further detail. I for some reason find myself hitting the refresh button every 5min to stay up on the latest. So pardon me if I am post whoring at the moment.
Don't worry I have both threads open and I'm reloading every few minutes.

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post #34 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 11:08 AM
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Bass - I was thinking similar to that since both the kef's and mirage' are efficient but not ultra efficient. I was hoping the clean power reserve from emotiva would make them sound clean but I don't have anything to compare to. Honestly though, I haven't gone beyond -3. With the subs playing 6 dB hot, my house was staring to fall apart. What I am interested in the clarity and sound quality around -15 reference.
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You are probably in the same ball park as me. The Kef's probably sound amazing to about -5, once you start to crank them up to -0 and above the lose a bit of their sound signature. I think it all boils down to what you want from your speakers. If you want ultra clean reference capable play back it is time to sell the KEF's. If you never plan on listening at those levels then do not fix what is not broke.

Tom can probably comment in further detail. I for some reason find myself hitting the refresh button every 5min to stay up on the latest. So pardon me if I am post whoring at the moment.

Speakers: PSA 2x MTM210T (Front), MTM210C, 2x MTM210 (Surround), 2x KEF Q900's (Rear), 4x Yamaha NS-IW480CWH (Atmos), SW: PSA triple XS30se(BASH)+miniDSP
AVR: Denon X4300H, Amp: Emotiva XPA-5
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post #35 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 11:10 AM
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The one issue with more traditional speakers, is power might not be the problem. Your speakers might be compressing long before you amp is. In part because the limits of the actual drivers and cabinets.
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post #36 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 11:22 AM
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I've heard many high efficiency designed speakers now and one thing that I've found common with all of them is that they are very revealing. This is both a good thing and a bad thing, basically crap in equals crap out. If a song has a bad recording there's no way around it, you'll definitely hear it first hand.


But when you do get those high quality recording its heaven, they sound oh so sweet.
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post #37 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 11:36 AM
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My front 3 speakers are B&W Nautilus 805 and B&W Nautilus HTM2, Frequency response: 49Hz-22kHz, ±3dB. Sensitivity: 88dB/W/m (2.83V). Nominal impedance: 8 ohms (minimum: 4.6 ohms). I would love to get into high efficient speakers but I would have a hard time letting go of my B&W's. I do have an itch to replace my back speakers Jamo THX surround one ( 4 ohm ) speakers though. I'm currently running a 9.1 system and now with Atmos that means even more speakers and upgrades, damn this hobby is getting out of hand!!!!!!!
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post #38 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You are probably in the same ball park as me. The Kef's probably sound amazing to about -5, once you start to crank them up to -0 and above the lose a bit of their sound signature. I think it all boils down to what you want from your speakers. If you want ultra clean reference capable play back it is time to sell the KEF's. If you never plan on listening at those levels then do not fix what is not broke.

Tom can probably comment in further detail. I for some reason find myself hitting the refresh button every 5min to stay up on the latest. So pardon me if I am post whoring at the moment.
KEF is definitely very good quality and well designed. I really would be hesitant to suggest that someone using the 900 series would see large performance benefits switching to our MTM 210s. The 900s are around 90dB sensitive IIRC so they aren't bad in that regard. Maybe order a pair of the MTM 210s Flydeep and take advantage of the free shipping both ways? I would be very interested in what your thoughts were if you have a chance to compare them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #39 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
My front 3 speakers are B&W Nautilus 805 and B&W Nautilus HTM2, Frequency response: 49Hz-22kHz, ±3dB. Sensitivity: 88dB/W/m (2.83V). Nominal impedance: 8 ohms (minimum: 4.6 ohms). I would love to get into high efficient speakers but I would have a hard time letting go of my B&W's. I do have an itch to replace my back speakers Jamo THX surround one ( 4 ohm ) speakers though. I'm currently running a 9.1 system and now with Atmos that means even more speakers and upgrades, damn this hobby is getting out of hand!!!!!!!
The 805s tip the system balance scale toward extension at the cost of efficiency. IIRC they are around 85dB? Of course they extend a little deeper and I'm sure they would win most WAF contests too..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #40 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The 805s tip the system balance scale toward extension at the cost of efficiency. IIRC they are around 85dB? Of course they extend a little deeper and I'm sure they would win most WAF contests too..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Yes, they are great looking speakers. I think I'm going to replace my back speakers though as they are dipole and my surrounds are omnipolar, I think direct radiant speakers is recommended by many in the back speaker position.
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post #41 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 12:48 PM
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Yes, they are great looking speakers. I think I'm going to replace my back speakers though as they are dipole and my surrounds are omnipolar, I think direct radiant speakers is recommended by many in the back speaker position.

I believe personal preference plays a role in that as well. For me, the closer the speaker is to my seat the more I tend to prefer something with more dispersion(dipole, bipole)

Tom V.
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post #42 of 8706 Old 09-13-2014, 01:06 PM
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I believe personal preference plays a role in that as well. For me, the closer the speaker is to my seat the more I tend to prefer something with more dispersion(dipole, bipole)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Yes, I agree. My back speakers are 16ft from the listening position and my surround speakers ( omnipolar ) are 2ft behind me off to the sides.

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post #43 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 06:37 AM
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In the interest of getting more good info.

Tom can you explain your design goals for these speakers?

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Can't wait to preorder these!! Definitly taking advantage of free shipping both ways to try these out in my new theater
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post #45 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 08:37 AM
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i cant decide if i will or not. im very curious to see how much different these are from my mbs's. tom is very good at underplaying things...like the xv SE upgrade. i just don't know what to do!
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post #46 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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i cant decide if i will or not. im very curious to see how much different these are from my mbs's. tom is very good at underplaying things...like the xv SE upgrade. i just don't know what to do!
Buy a pair and try them for 30 days risk free.
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post #47 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 12:08 PM
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Can't wait to preorder these!! Definitly taking advantage of free shipping both ways to try these out in my new theater
Unless I missed them, lets see some pics of the new theater Brian. Have you switched over to the SE's yet?
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post #48 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 01:42 PM
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Mtm 210

Hey guys, I will be getting the MTM 210s for sure upfront and I wanted to orient the center vertically like the mains, the problem with the vertical center is the tweeter (horn) will be about 6" below the the mains tweeters, can I just tilt the stand back a bit to fire the horn about ear level or is it imperitive that all horns be the same height. Another question, I can have the center in a horizontal orientation which will place the tweeter (horn) in the same height plane as the mains. I know the best orientation (correct?) is to have the LCR all vertical? What orientation would produce the best dispersion with the center channel? TIA
Cheers Jeff
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post #49 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 02:21 PM
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Hey guys, I will be getting the MTM 210s for sure upfront and I wanted to orient the center vertically like the mains, the problem with the vertical center is the tweeter (horn) will be about 6" below the the mains tweeters, can I just tilt the stand back a bit to fire the horn about ear level or is it imperitive that all horns be the same height. Another question, I can have the center in a horizontal orientation which will place the tweeter (horn) in the same height plane as the mains. I know the best orientation (correct?) is to have the LCR all vertical? What orientation would produce the best dispersion with the center channel? TIA
Cheers Jeff
I have my Jtr 228's all vertical. I just tilted the center that is about 3 inches off of the floor up a little. It sounds much better than when it was horizontal. There are articles that talk about lobing problems with WTW horizontal centers. It's not like it will sound bad horizontal though.
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Unless I missed them, lets see some pics of the new theater Brian. Have you switched over to the SE's yet?
No not yet. Just don't have the money to do so. And you can see any money I do get will be going to these speakers if tey live up to my expectations or finishing the theater:


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post #51 of 8706 Old 09-14-2014, 06:26 PM
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I have my Jtr 228's all vertical. I just tilted the center that is about 3 inches off of the floor up a little. It sounds much better than when it was horizontal. There are articles that talk about lobing problems with WTW horizontal centers. It's not like it will sound bad horizontal though.
Thanks Ray, that was my primary concern, the lobing with MTMs ow WTWs horizontally.
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post #52 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 07:39 AM
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Thanks Ray, that was my primary concern, the lobing with MTMs ow WTWs horizontally.

All vertical is best case scenario but if the *key* seating is within say..about 20 degrees or so having the center horizontal will be a close second. Also, you can always use the smaller 110 as the center too(in either orientation). The overall "tonal" match between the 210 and 110 is extremely close.

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Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
All vertical is best case scenario but if the *key* seating is within say..about 20 degrees or so having the center horizontal will be a close second. Also, you can always use the smaller 110 as the center too(in either orientation). The overall "tonal" match between the 210 and 110 is extremely close.



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio

What's the dispersion patten of the waveguide? I know with my JTR speakers they ask you if you'll be using the center channel vertically or horizontally. When I first got them I was using the center channel horizontally, but when I went with an acoustically transparent screen and had the speaker vertical they recommended that I unscrew the waveguide and rotate it 90 degrees because of the 60/40 dispersion pattern of the waveguide.
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Last edited by jbrown15; 09-15-2014 at 09:10 AM.
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post #54 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 09:47 AM
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I've been thinking about replacing my "MMTMM" Klipsch RC64ii CC because of issues I have with being able to locate it. I have it mounted above my TV and I can tell the sound is coming from above my TV.

Would either of these new speakers be any better in that regard??

I can do vertical (the tweeter would be pretty high up though), but horizontal would look better.
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post #55 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 09:48 AM
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What's the dispersion patten of the waveguide? I know with my JTR speakers they ask you if you'll be using the center channel vertically or horizontally. When I first got them I was using the center channel horizontally, but when I went with an acoustically transparent screen and had the speaker vertical they recommended that I unscrew the waveguide and rotate it 90 degrees because of the 60/40 dispersion pattern of the waveguide.
What is this "waveguide" you speak of? Does my CC have one??
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post #56 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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What is this "waveguide" you speak of? Does my CC have one??
Wave guides direct the sound...normally used with compression drivers but can be used with soft domes.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...aker-kits.html
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post #57 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 11:53 AM
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What is this "waveguide" you speak of? Does my CC have one??
As Bass head mentions wave guides direct sound. The horn increasing efficiency of the sound and the wave guide direct sound in a specific pattern.

ShaunH
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post #58 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 12:16 PM
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Just a random slightly off topic post. Is it just me or are most AV forums slow lately? I keep checking multiple forums for new topics and it seems the only one that is still busy is avs forum.

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post #59 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed the same thing...not sure what is up.
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post #60 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 01:54 PM
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Just a random slightly off topic post. Is it just me or are most AV forums slow lately? I keep checking multiple forums for new topics and it seems the only one that is still busy is avs forum.
I think it just depends on what threads you subscribe to. I am experiencing the opposite. Several of the threads if am subscribed to are blowing up my email with notifications (JTR Speaker thread, Denon 4520 thread and Master list of Bass Movies) over the last few days.
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