Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread - Page 268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
For laying the front left and right horizontally, would I need to do anything to the 210's? Sorry it has been a while since I posted in the PSA speaker thread. I am changing my screen, and need to lay the front left and right on their sides, so I can accommodate the new screen.
Thanks, Russ
Hello Russ my friend, hope all is well with you and yours. Just like Ray said if you're going to lay the 210s horizontal, you just need to rotate the WG's a 1/4 turn in either direction to keep the longer inside throat opening in a vertical position, just like you had them before you laid them on their sides, (longer portion up and down or vertical).

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post #8012 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 06:38 PM
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Thanks @ahblaza and @imureh ! I remember now Jeffrey what you and Ray are talking about with the WG and the fours screws. Will remember to do that once I get the new screen. Thanks and have a great weekend!
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post #8013 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
Yes, i checked your signature. I also have the Crowsons. The only real difference is my plan to go with 210T’s all around, rather than the smaller surrounds. I would guess it’d be very difficult to top the performance of your system. Did you use MiniDSP and/or Dirac? What are your room dimensions?
No, I'm just running Audyssey XT32 right now. My room itself is about 2400 cuft opening to at least twice that so the total space the subs see is easily over 5200 cuft. I would love to have a dedicated theater but that's not happening right now. But as far as performance... the PSA setup easily handles the entire space. If I want I can dominate my entire house, all three stories.

If you go 210T's all around you'll be able to dominate your neighbor's house as well.
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post #8014 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Thanks @ahblaza and @imureh ! I remember now Jeffrey what you and Ray are talking about with the WG and the fours screws. Will remember to do that once I get the new screen. Thanks and have a great weekend!
No one else is saying it, so I will.

If you were going to lay your L/R horizontally the 110’s would have been a better choice as to not have any lobing with the woofers. Horizontal centers are a compromise, you shouldn’t have to do that with the mains. You could get the best of both worlds with an acoustically transparent screen.
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post #8015 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
No one else is saying it, so I will.

If you were going to lay your L/R horizontally the 110’s would have been a better choice as to not have any lobing with the woofers. Horizontal centers are a compromise, you shouldn’t have to do that with the mains. You could get the best of both worlds with an acoustically transparent screen.
This has me curious... i just added my first projector and have 110s as my lcr. Ive put my left and right pretty wide to get them outside the projected screen (in living room and dont have the ability to go with an AT screen)... if i lay them on their side, i could probably get them under the screen, but still keep them somewhat close to ear height... is there any disadvantage to puting the left and rights on their sides?

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Equipment: Yamaha 3050, Oppo 103d, DIYSG HT12s (L,C,R), PSA mt 110s (SR,SL), 2 VBSS, Submaximus, 4 driver BOSS build, umik-1, Epson 3700
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post #8016 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
No one else is saying it, so I will.

If you were going to lay your L/R horizontally the 110’s would have been a better choice as to not have any lobing with the woofers. Horizontal centers are a compromise, you shouldn’t have to do that with the mains. You could get the best of both worlds with an acoustically transparent screen.
i fell in love with my towers immediately after setting them up, and i spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not to just settle and go with a horizontal center or to roll up my sleeves and do the work required to get a third tower setup correctly behind the middle of the screen. it was worth all of the effort and then some. i still prefer 2 channel imaging to that of 3 channel with a center that's above or below the display/screen.
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post #8017 of 8731 Old 05-18-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
This has me curious... i just added my first projector and have 110s as my lcr. Ive put my left and right pretty wide to get them outside the projected screen (in living room and dont have the ability to go with an AT screen)... if i lay them on their side, i could probably get them under the screen, but still keep them somewhat close to ear height... is there any disadvantage to puting the left and rights on their sides?

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With the 110’s no - with any MTM design there can be lobing with the woofers.

http://theaudioannex.com/forum/threa...l-lobing.1634/
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Last edited by raynist; 05-18-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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post #8018 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
No one else is saying it, so I will.

If you were going to lay your L/R horizontally the 110’s would have been a better choice as to not have any lobing with the woofers. Horizontal centers are a compromise, you shouldn’t have to do that with the mains. You could get the best of both worlds with an acoustically transparent screen.
Thanks @raynist . Was not aware. I would love to do an AT screen, but just not possible right now. I will rethink my strategy on pursuing a 2.35 screen.
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post #8019 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
i fell in love with my towers immediately after setting them up, and i spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not to just settle and go with a horizontal center or to roll up my sleeves and do the work required to get a third tower setup correctly behind the middle of the screen. it was worth all of the effort and then some. i still prefer 2 channel imaging to that of 3 channel with a center that's above or below the display/screen.


I entirely agree with your findings. I find phantom center (especially on speakers that image as well as the 210Ts) to be sonically superior to ANY horizontally oriented center I’ve tried. The only way i could improve my situation is a dedicated 210T vertically oriented and centered behind my screen (but that won’t work because i dont have and don’t plan to acquire, an AT screen).


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post #8020 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
With the 110’s no - with any MTM design there can be lobing with the woofers.

http://theaudioannex.com/forum/threa...l-lobing.1634/
That's a very good explanation and it's very interesting. Thanks for the link Ray.

Here's the other side of the coin. I have a 210C and while I completely believe that lobbing exists and (based on that article) I obviously experience it everyday... But I'm not AWARE of experiencing it. When I watch a movie I sit there and think about how great it sounds and I actually sit sightly off axis on the left hand side of the couch. I have even tried and listen for any off axis anomalies that stick out to me and I still don't notice anything.

I wonder if this is an occasion where ignorance is bliss or if I'm not just discerning enough to pick up on it or (and this is what I suspect) movies by their very nature are a distracting material so my brain isn't listening for things like the lobbing effect as I get pulled into the action and or plot of the movie. Music listening on the other hand can consist of very critical listening sessions with nothing to distract you as you listen to the speakers. Perhaps then, in multi channel listening I would pick up on it.

Either way, I don't mind at all having a horizontally laid center speaker and I would definitely choose it over a phantom center. But that's me and this hobby is nothing if it's not full of compromises and individual choices to over come the compromises. But that was very interesting to read none the less.

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post #8021 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
That's a very good explanation and it's very interesting. Thanks for the link Ray.

Here's the other side of the coin. I have a 210T and while I completely believe that lobbing exists and (based on that article) I obviously experience it everyday... But I'm not AWARE of experiencing it. When I watch a movie I sit there and think about how great it sounds and I actually sit sightly off axis on the left hand side of the couch. I have even tried and listen for any off axis anomalies that stick out to me and I still don't notice anything.

I wonder if this is an occasion where ignorance is bliss or if I'm not just discerning enough to pick up on it or (and this is what I suspect) movies by their very nature are a distracting material so my brain isn't listening for things like the lobbing effect as I get pulled into the action and or plot of the movie. Music listening on the other hand can consist of very critical listening sessions with nothing to distract you as you listen to the speakers. Perhaps then, in multi channel listening I would pick up on it.

Either way, I don't mind at all having a horizontally laid center speaker and I would definitely choose it over a phantom center. But that's me and this hobby is nothing if it's not full of compromises and individual choices to over come the compromises. But that was very interesting to read none the less.
The 210T shouldn’t have lobing if you have them oriented standing up. A horizontal center isn’t bad if you sit right in front of it.

Laying your L/R horizontally (MTM config) is not ideal, especially because they are not right in front of you. Having them off to the side will exaggerate the lobing.

I use a horizontal setup with a 210 but I sit directly in front of it.
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post #8022 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
The 210T shouldn’t have lobing if you have them oriented standing up. A horizontal center isn’t bad if you sit right in front of it.

Laying your L/R horizontally (MTM config) is not ideal, especially because they are not right in front of you. Having them off to the side will exaggerate the lobing.

I use a horizontal setup with a 210 but I sit directly in front of it.
Oops I meant 210C. I'm going to go back and correct that.

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post #8023 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:21 PM
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Oops I meant 210C. I'm going to go back and correct that.
It's all in how far axis you go. If you have a big sofa centered on a screen say 12-15ft away pretty much all the seating will be fine. But if you have a lazy-boy on each side of that sofa too---the FR will get sketchy. Not that 90% of casual listening would hear any difference. We're talking narrow dips in the FR not broad FR problems--- so just put the person who spends most of their time on their phone during the movie in those seats..

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post #8024 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:23 PM
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You guys know what this means right?

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post #8025 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:24 PM
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You guys know what this means right?



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Business doing good?


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post #8026 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:29 PM
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You guys know what this means right?

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I think it means PSA is gonna have to add some lines to it's factory. Maybe up it's volume of what it manufactures.

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post #8027 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:33 PM
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you guys know what this means right?

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big profits!!!!


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post #8028 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 01:46 PM
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big profits!!!!

I still remember this game...lol.


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post #8029 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 02:07 PM
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Business doing good?


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For the speakers in particular, correct. I have no rhythm or reason to it but speaker sales have exploded in 2018. I mean up >300% over my most optimistic expectations. Not complaining of course, I'm appreciative, very much so. It's just a little puzzling. If we had a huge review in cosmo or say Drake and his crew wore some of the shirts we sent him at a concert...okay, at least I can connect a few dots.

The down side is inventory. We're out as I already mentioned about a week ago. But even the surrounds in that picture are now all sold(we have one pair of b-stock here, that's it). AND---all of the cabinets coming in (approx) 3-4 weeks from now...half of THOSE are already sold as of today. So, very soon, anyone calling me about speaker availability I may need ot say mid/late July(or maybe even august)

I can move around subwoofer cabinets(delay them) already schedule to get more speaker cabinets here...but then we're out of one or more of our most popular subs for a good length of time. So robbing peter to pay paul while mary is still looking for puff.


Anyway,

We'll get it figured out, just wanted to keep everyone in the loop(if you want speakers before August, the only sure way is to order soon).

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post #8030 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
For the speakers in particular, correct. I have no rhythm or reason to it but speaker sales have exploded in 2018. I mean up >300% over my most optimistic expectations. Not complaining of course, I'm appreciative, very much so. It's just a little puzzling. If we had a huge review in cosmo or say Drake and his crew wore some of the shirts we sent him at a concert...okay, at least I can connect a few dots.



The down side is inventory. We're out as I already mentioned about a week ago. But even the surrounds in that picture are now all sold(we have one pair of b-stock here, that's it). AND---all of the cabinets coming in (approx) 3-4 weeks from now...half of THOSE are already sold as of today. So, very soon, anyone calling me about speaker availability I may need ot say mid/late July(or maybe even august)



I can move around subwoofer cabinets(delay them) already schedule to get more speaker cabinets here...but then we're out of one or more of our most popular subs for a good length of time. So robbing peter to pay paul while mary is still looking for puff.





Anyway,



We'll get it figured out, just wanted to keep everyone in the loop(if you want speakers before August, the only sure way is to order soon).



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio


Tom, those speakers don’t need any reviews to get the sales going IMO. I think just having tested out many brands myself there is no better value for what these speakers offer in the market. They have improved my HT experience even more than the subs have which is saying a lot. They bring a smile to my face every time I listen to them. I have never listened this loud without any ear fatigue and the clarity, dynamics and imaging are just outstanding. Can’t say enough about the quality of these speakers.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #8031 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
For the speakers in particular, correct. I have no rhythm or reason to it but speaker sales have exploded in 2018. I mean up >300% over my most optimistic expectations. Not complaining of course, I'm appreciative, very much so. It's just a little puzzling. If we had a huge review in cosmo or say Drake and his crew wore some of the shirts we sent him at a concert...okay, at least I can connect a few dots.



The down side is inventory. We're out as I already mentioned about a week ago. But even the surrounds in that picture are now all sold(we have one pair of b-stock here, that's it). AND---all of the cabinets coming in (approx) 3-4 weeks from now...half of THOSE are already sold as of today. So, very soon, anyone calling me about speaker availability I may need ot say mid/late July(or maybe even august)



I can move around subwoofer cabinets(delay them) already schedule to get more speaker cabinets here...but then we're out of one or more of our most popular subs for a good length of time. So robbing peter to pay paul while mary is still looking for puff.





Anyway,



We'll get it figured out, just wanted to keep everyone in the loop(if you want speakers before August, the only sure way is to order soon).



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio


That’s interesting... big increase in web traffic as well? Any particular link that is generating a lot of visits? Conversion rate gone up? Generally a good problem to have at least.

Also helping me not to feel to tempted to order before I’m ready since you’re sold out anyway.


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post #8032 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hello Russ my friend, hope all is well with you and yours. Just like Ray said if you're going to lay the 210s horizontal, you just need to rotate the WG's a 1/4 turn in either direction to keep the longer inside throat opening in a vertical position, just like you had them before you laid them on their sides, (longer portion up and down or vertical).

Cheers Jeffrey
Correct.. Also, it is much easier to pop a 10 inch woofer out first so you can push on the tweeter/wave guide assembly from the inside.

Jeff, you need to come by the office again soon. Our little harmless pup misses you!

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post #8033 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 06:54 PM
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If we had a huge review in cosmo or say Drake and his crew wore some of the shirts we sent him at a concert...okay, at least I can connect a few dots.



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio

Hey, I wear a PSA shirt to every concert; that’s what my profile pic has been the last couple years. I may not be quite as popular as Drake with the kids, but I’ll gladly share credit.

Happy to hear PSA speakers are smashing projected sales, because they’re the best single upgrade I’ve ever made to my system.

Disclaimer: I’m in no way affiliated with anyone in the audio industry and just appreciate quality gear.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
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post #8034 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 06:56 PM
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I wear mine whenever I get a chance. It's fun explaining what it is and makes me proud too. I'm still trying to find out if Tom can get me a kids size for my little dude
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Hey, I wear a PSA shirt to every concert; that’s what my profile pic has been the last couple years. I may not be quite as popular as Drake with the kids, but I’ll gladly share credit.

Happy to hear PSA speakers are smashing projected sales, because they’re the best single upgrade I’ve ever made to my system.

Disclaimer: I’m in no way affiliated with anyone in the audio industry and just appreciate quality gear.
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post #8035 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 06:57 PM
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Correct.. Also, it is much easier to pop a 10 inch woofer out first so you can push on the tweeter/wave guide assembly from the inside.

Jeff, you need to come by the office again soon. Our little harmless pup misses you!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
That's true about popping the woofer out first, it's much easier to get the WG/CD out, I remember the tear down I did with the 210s and how difficult it was to get that heavy CD unbolted from the WG, that and the magnet grabbing the wrench didn't help.

That harmless pup wanted a piece of my hand last time I was there, she was licking my sister's hand and trying to take mine. I've been wanting to stop down but I heard you guys weren't accepting pickups at the shop because of your new secret project you were hiding..........

I've been talking with Jim and I do have plans to stop by soon I hope, I miss the dog too........... I'll be seeing you my friend.....

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #8036 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkeyejw View Post
That’s interesting... big increase in web traffic as well? Any particular link that is generating a lot of visits? Conversion rate gone up? Generally a good problem to have at least.

Also helping me not to feel to tempted to order before I’m ready since you’re sold out anyway.


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Nothing that shows correlation to such a huge jump. I usually speak with every customer before they order(sometimes for months prior) and it just seems to be one of those "been thinking about it for a long time, decided to pull the trigger" comments for many.

There really has never been much value in analytics imo with our business model. I mean, I'm not going to get into specific figures but its not like we're selling 25 speakers a day or anything. I pretty much interact with every single customer so by the time they order I know why they came to us, where they came from, what their dog's name is, what their performance expectations are, what they intend to use for the first demo movie, and on and on.

I remember we tried a big ad banner a while back and everyone was telling me how great it was because we had so much traffic coming in. I was like "this is a HUGE waste of money". Everyone is laughing at me like I'm an idiot. What no one else understood is I'm the only one here doing phones/emails/chats 7 days a week(usually from say 9am to 9pm). And all that "valuable" traffic? Yeah, I had a huge increase in chats/phone call/emails alright. And I could tell every single person coming from that banner because I would get "Hi, never heard of you guys, I need a bluetooth system for my ATV", "Hi , I need a soundbar", Hi, I need a 7.1 system budget is $300", "Hi, do you guys repair televisions?"

Now, the first day of all this was kinda funny. 30 days of this, and I ready to just get an off the grid cabin in Alaska. And I was STILL being told how valuable all that traffic is..."but, but...when you guys DO come out with a soundbar for the ATVs you'll have the traffic!!!"

Just kill me now...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

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post #8037 of 8731 Old 05-19-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Nothing that shows correlation to such a huge jump. I usually speak with every customer before they order(sometimes for months prior) and it just seems to be one of those "been thinking about it for a long time, decided to pull the trigger" comments for many.



There really has never been much value in analytics imo with our business model. I mean, I'm not going to get into specific figures but its not like we're selling 25 speakers a day or anything. I pretty much interact with every single customer so by the time they order I know why they came to us, where they came from, what their dog's name is, what their performance expectations are, what they intend to use for the first demo movie, and on and on.



I remember we tried a big ad banner a while back and everyone was telling me how great it was because we had so much traffic coming in. I was like "this is a HUGE waste of money". Everyone is laughing at me like I'm an idiot. What no one else understood is I'm the only one here doing phones/emails/chats 7 days a week(usually from say 9am to 9pm). And all that "valuable" traffic? Yeah, I had a huge increase in chats/phone call/emails alright. And I could tell every single person coming from that banner because I would get "Hi, never heard of you guys, I need a bluetooth system for my ATV", "Hi , I need a soundbar", Hi, I need a 7.1 system budget is $300", "Hi, do you guys repair televisions?"



Now, the first day of all this was kinda funny. 30 days of this, and I ready to just get an off the grid cabin in Alaska. And I was STILL being told how valuable all that traffic is..."but, but...when you guys DO come out with a soundbar for the ATVs you'll have the traffic!!!"



Just kill me now...



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio


Fair enough. I’m not a web traffic expert but my career has trained me to find root causes for unexpected events, so I was curious whether you might be able to work backwards using the sources of the sales. If I were to guess I’d say your second paragraph probably explains it - people like to do business with someone that is generous with their time, helpful, and whom they trust. Combine that with tax return season and some trending among enthusiasts towards high sensitivity, big dynamic capability designs and it adds up to success!

...or maybe it’s just Sekosche and Supacabra’s t-shirts.


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post #8038 of 8731 Old 05-20-2018, 12:18 AM
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@Tom Vodhanel

i have a tiny youtube channel documenting my home theater evolution from when i first started to furnish it with equipment to present (average view count for these ~18 videos is ~4.5k/ea or ~80k total). i have heavily advocated for & promoted both psa speakers & rythmik subwoofers, and i know for a fact that i have driven multiple rythmik sub sales. i can't say the same for psa speakers sales (that i know of) but if i was the deciding factor for any it makes me smile. in the past when i have been on the fence deciding between equipment for my home theater, i know every review you can find helps immensely. before i pulled the trigger on the 210t's i think i only found 2-3 written reviews and a single video review for the 110's, so i'm happy to help others. very happy to hear psa is doing so well, keep up the great work!
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7.0.6 / 1700 ft³ / PSA MTM-210T³ / Epson HC 2150 / 147" AT 2.39:1 Spandex Screen / Seatcraft Rialto³ / Velvet Everywhere / Chasing LFE

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post #8039 of 8731 Old 05-20-2018, 10:14 AM
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@Tom Vodhanel , any chance of adding PSA hats to the collection?


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post #8040 of 8731 Old 05-20-2018, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeyejw View Post
Fair enough. I’m not a web traffic expert but my career has trained me to find root causes for unexpected events, so I was curious whether you might be able to work backwards using the sources of the sales. If I were to guess I’d say your second paragraph probably explains it - people like to do business with someone that is generous with their time, helpful, and whom they trust. Combine that with tax return season and some trending among enthusiasts towards high sensitivity, big dynamic capability designs and it adds up to success!

...or maybe it’s just Sekosche and Supacabra’s t-shirts.


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Oh don't get me wrong that data would be very valuable---to the right business model. If we were in the t shirt business and selling 100 a day..yeah give me ALL the data..

And the guy promoting the (banner)value to us is a really good guy too. I've known him since way back when(2000?) and he really wanted us to "get to" all of these products. Selling 100 sound bars a day and not even coming into work maybe once a month. It's not impossible come to think of it...hmmm...

Jim would watch the traffic much more than I would. I still remember him coming into my office and asking "did you and shajy get into it again? Because our traffic just went up 500% today".

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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