Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I've been thinking about replacing my "MMTMM" Klipsch RC64ii CC because of issues I have with being able to locate it. I have it mounted above my TV and I can tell the sound is coming from above my TV.

Would either of these new speakers be any better in that regard??

I can do vertical (the tweeter would be pretty high up though), but horizontal would look better.

Alan, according to my research about vertically or even horizontally oriented center channel speakers, the tweeter should be ideally the same height as the mains in a LCR setup. All vertical same height (tweeter) is supposed to be the best setup. There are exceptions to that equal distance plane, I have read and been told the center tweeter no matter how oriented could be either 18" above or below the mains tweeters, according to that statement that is the threshold where the panning effect will not be too uneven. This was told to me, because I asked if my center PSA 210 vertically oriented was 6" below the mains tweeter would cause any detrimental effects. Also Ray (Nist) has his center below the mains as well in a vertical orientation with no ill effects. I also believe that the 210 would suit you better than the RC64ii concerning localization, just my opinion. Below is an example of having the tweeters in an extreme situation. Hope this helps.


The 6" difference will not matter. The concern here is that you will be distracted when source material is emitted from one speaker and then fades to another. Assume a 6 feet difference for this next example. Let's say you are watching a scene where a helicopter is passing from the left to the right on your tv screen. You should here the helicopter sound coming from the left, fade into the center, then fade to the right. If there was a big enough difference in height between the speakers, you would become distracted when all of a sudden the sound from the helicopter is 6 feet higher than it was before. This will not happen with a 6" difference. It will not be noticeable.

Cheers Jeff
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post #62 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Ray, I think he meant other forum(websites) are slow compared to here at AVS....ie hometheatershack, Audioholics, Bluray....etc. I have noticed the same thing. Plenty of activity here.
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post #63 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Ray, I think he meant other forum(websites) are slow compared to here at AVS....ie hometheatershack, Audioholics, Bluray....etc. I have noticed the same thing. Plenty of activity here.
Yup this is what I meant....

ShaunH
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post #64 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
Yup this is what I meant....
Ah, ok. I don't even bother looking at those any longer.
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post #65 of 8706 Old 09-15-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Ah, ok. I don't even bother looking at those any longer.


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post #66 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Can't wait to preorder these!! Definitly taking advantage of free shipping both ways to try these out in my new theater
I think you'll enjoy the audition Brian. Are you thinking of going with a 5.0 package or just starting with a 2.0 system? We'll have pre-order pricing up soon. But you'll be able to purchase a 5.0 system(all 110s) for about $2400-2500 including shipping both ways. Similar to our subwoofers, I know folks will want to grab all their fav film demos but start with your favorite music first. Find a great CD or concert disc and just settle in for a good time..

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post #67 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
i cant decide if i will or not. im very curious to see how much different these are from my mbs's. tom is very good at underplaying things...like the xv SE upgrade. i just don't know what to do!
Free shipping both ways. These scenarios are one of the reasons we're keeping the free shipping both ways extended indefinitely. Give a 2.0 system a try. Contrary to what a couple of "psychics" seem to think these speakers are a really nice balance of performance, aesthetics, and overall value. They took us more than a year to perfect but the wait was worth it imo.

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post #68 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I think you'll enjoy the audition Brian. Are you thinking of going with a 5.0 package or just starting with a 2.0 system? We'll have pre-order pricing up soon. But you'll be able to purchase a 5.0 system(all 110s) for about $2400-2500 including shipping both ways. Similar to our subwoofers, I know folks will want to grab all their fav film demos but start with your favorite music first. Find a great CD or concert disc and just settle in for a good time..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
well i WAS thinking the front 3 to start...but that price for the 5.0 package is very very tempting...
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post #69 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:16 AM
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Tom, with regards to the center channel dual 10" speaker. Will customers be able to rotate the waveguides depending if the customer is using it in a vertical or horizontal configuration? Or are you guys going to use something like a 90x90 as opposed to say a 90x60 dispersion waveguide?


Also where did you decide to cross the compression driver over to the 10" drivers at? I'm guessing probably somewhere around 1300hz? Just taking a shot in the dark with that one

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post #70 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I've been thinking about replacing my "MMTMM" Klipsch RC64ii CC because of issues I have with being able to locate it. I have it mounted above my TV and I can tell the sound is coming from above my TV.

Would either of these new speakers be any better in that regard??

I can do vertical (the tweeter would be pretty high up though), but horizontal would look better.
Probably not. Is the seating mainly on axis...mostly equidistant to both the main L and main R speakers? If so, try setting the center to "phantom mode" or OFF in the speaker setup menu. This also has limitations of course but it may work better than the current setup.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #71 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
well i WAS thinking the front 3 to start...but that price for the 5.0 package is very very tempting...
Either way. We're going to try to offer the "package" pricing if you fill out the system within a year anyway. For example, Let's say a 5.0 system is $2500 including shipping but the 2.0 system is $1100. If you order the other 3 speakers within one year they would only be $1400 total.

This is similar to our "dual subwoofer" option works. If you order one sub today, and the second identical sub within one year. We discount the second subwoofer so you get the "dual" discount even though you purchased them one year apart.

This will help "stretch out" the financial pain a bit.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #72 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 10:47 AM
 
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nice!

the plan is do go identical across the front stage...no horizontal center

my surround speakers space is limited....

Tom, any plan on speaker stands?
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post #73 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
nice!

the plan is do go identical across the front stage...no horizontal center

my surround speakers space is limited....

Tom, any plan on speaker stands?
Not initially. We'll have recommendations and links on the website to nice alternatives though.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #74 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 12:22 PM
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Has there been any thought to an active option for the new speakers? I see PSA is selling MiniDSP products now so it would be interesting if a MiniDSP plate amp option could be added to the speakers.
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post #75 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
In the interest of getting more good info.

Tom can you explain your design goals for these speakers?
Hi oneeye,

Just "off the cuff"...


1) Made in USA from USA sourced content whenever possible ( I believe every component is USA sourced except the metal grill pins).

2) Sealed design

3) High Efficiency and an easy/stable load to power.(impedance)

The ability to play at very loud levels without the need for expensive amplification. The benefits here are two fold. First, even an inexpensive ($300?) receiver will be able to power these speakers to very loud levels in all but the largest of room environments. Second, even at moderate output levels there are still audible benefits. Subtle details and nuances of the program material will be more audible. The term "micro dynamics" is often used to describe this phenomenon.

4) Bass extension down to 60-70hz. This would ensure plenty of frequency overlap with subwoofers with all speakers set to 80hz(or even a bit lower) We recommend 60hz as the lowest crossover point with these designs although in smaller rooms you may see nice output down to the 50-55hz range.

At this point I believe everyone understands the benefits of dedicated subwoofers to handle the bass in home audio. Not only will a quality subwoofer offer more headroom it will also provide more accurate bass reproduction in most cases because the subwoofer can be placed in the room to maximize bass performance. The full range speakers need to be placed in very specific locations because of imaging and directional cues. These spots are rarely the best for bass reproduction.


5) Accurate sound reproduction verified with both subjective listening impressions as well as objective/measured performance.

Obviously, accurate sound reproduction is the key to any speaker design. While listening sessions play an important role in the process without high resolution measurements any speaker design will be prone to mistakes. Simply put, our ears are no where near as resolving as a quality measurement rig. When you combine all of the necessary acoustical measurements with an endless amount of crossover variations it should surprise no one that a quality speaker design will take many, many months of hard work.


6) In house crossover development. While using an off the shelf crossover from an outside source can get you "75%" of the way there while saving MONTHS of development time....you will never be able to really optimize any design in this manner. The crossover has been called the "heart" of any speaker design by many of the most respected designers in the industry and they will get no argument from me.


7) Reasonably sized with dimensions and weight that would work in the majority of room environments.


8) Aesthetics that match our current subwoofers.


9) Fairly priced for the performance, build quality, and most importantly customer support. Let's face it, it would be easy to pick one of these to excel at. Two, more difficult but not impossible by any measure. But all three can take a tremendous amount of time and effort.


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #76 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 02:12 PM
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I'm going to wait for the SE versions
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post #77 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Probably not. Is the seating mainly on axis...mostly equidistant to both the main L and main R speakers? If so, try setting the center to "phantom mode" or OFF in the speaker setup menu. This also has limitations of course but it may work better than the current setup.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thanks Tom, but I've tried phantom before and it just doesn't work in my setup.
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post #78 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew101 View Post
I'm going to wait for the SE versions
There's nothing on the drawing board in regards to a SE version. But there is certainly no harm in waiting a few years if you aren't in any rush to upgrade.

Tom V.
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post #79 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post
Has there been any thought to an active option for the new speakers? I see PSA is selling MiniDSP products now so it would be interesting if a MiniDSP plate amp option could be added to the speakers.
I guess that answers that
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post #80 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 06:05 PM
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I guess that answers that
That would probably add at least $300 to the price of each speaker. These speakers are efficient enough to run off of any receiver.
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post #81 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 06:28 PM
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That would probably add at least $300 to the price of each speaker. These speakers are efficient enough to run off of any receiver.
Oh I totally get that... it's just that some of us don't use receivers. I have just been introduced to the world of actives and not having to worry about receiver power or an outboard amplifier is nice. I know it's not for everybody but having an option like that would be very cool. Seaton seems to be the only ID company doing actives and while his offerings might be a good value compared to the big boys, they are still expensive... so a $300 option (if that's what it would be) would be nothing in comparison. I am looking forward to these to see how they compare to the JTR offerings.
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post #82 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 06:52 PM
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Oh I totally get that... it's just that some of us don't use receivers. I have just been introduced to the world of actives and not having to worry about receiver power or an outboard amplifier is nice. I know it's not for everybody but having an option like that would be very cool. Seaton seems to be the only ID company doing actives and while his offerings might be a good value compared to the big boys, they are still expensive... so a $300 option (if that's what it would be) would be nothing in comparison. I am looking forward to these to see how they compare to the JTR offerings.
I am guessing there just isn't enough people interested to justify the R&D involved for these ID companies.
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post #83 of 8706 Old 09-16-2014, 09:59 PM
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I am guessing there just isn't enough people interested to justify the R&D involved for these ID companies.
I'm guessing its pretty much a price thing. Considering active speakers aren't common anyway and the need for circuitry to handle crossover duties. I don't know if it could be done with any quality even at 300-500 dollars more.

ShaunH
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post #84 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post
I guess that answers that
Sorry, sometimes I only have time to pop in every 24 hours or so and there may be 10 new posts making one or more easy to miss.

Active (powered) speakers may be something we offer in the future but we have a long way to go with regards to development/optimization. We may have an update in 2015...or we may nor pursue the idea to final production at all. Way too early to guess at this point.

Tom V.
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post #85 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Thanks Tom, but I've tried phantom before and it just doesn't work in my setup.
Hi Alan,

Could you send me a couple of pictures of the front stage from the listening position?

[email protected]

Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #86 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Sorry, sometimes I only have time to pop in every 24 hours or so and there may be 10 new posts making one or more easy to miss.

Active (powered) speakers may be something we offer in the future but we have a long way to go with regards to development/optimization. We may have an update in 2015...or we may nor pursue the idea to final production at all. Way too early to guess at this point.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks Toms... appreciate the info and best of luck with the new line. I will be keeping my eye on you guys so see how your product offerings mature and possibly evolve.
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post #87 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There's nothing on the drawing board in regards to a SE version. But there is certainly no harm in waiting a few years if you aren't in any rush to upgrade.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


Yes I realized that and was just joking but for whatever reason the emoticons do not work when I try to add them to a post. I could never replace my Snell Type A mains anyway.
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post #88 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 02:32 PM
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Yes I realized that and was just joking but for whatever reason the emoticons do not work when I try to add them to a post. I could never replace my Snell Type A mains anyway.
I could never get anything to work but the basic "happy face" either....so no worries.

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post #89 of 8706 Old 09-17-2014, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hap hap happy...
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post #90 of 8706 Old 09-18-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
What's the dispersion patten of the waveguide? I know with my JTR speakers they ask you if you'll be using the center channel vertically or horizontally. When I first got them I was using the center channel horizontally, but when I went with an acoustically transparent screen and had the speaker vertical they recommended that I unscrew the waveguide and rotate it 90 degrees because of the 60/40 dispersion pattern of the waveguide.

90 (h) x 60 (v). Rotatable by the end user if needed.

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