Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread - Page 300 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8971 of 8986 Old 01-11-2020, 08:01 PM
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“Most room environments” is the furthest from what I am in.

My ceiling peak is 22 foot, open to a loft up stairs, and open floor plan below. Huge space.

For an idea- I just hooked up two new S3600 Ipal, and when running audyssey it kept saying level too low until I put the gains at max!!


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post #8972 of 8986 Old 01-11-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by powerdubs View Post
“Most room environments” is the furthest from what I am in.

My ceiling peak is 22 foot, open to a loft up stairs, and open floor plan below. Huge space.

For an idea- I just hooked up two new S3600 Ipal, and when running audyssey it kept saying level too low until I put the gains at max!!


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The only thing that matters for speakers is how far you are from them. Indoors, you will lose about 3-4 dB for every doubling of distance from 1m....so the 210's require 1 watt to produce 98 dB at 1m or about 3ft.

If you sit about 12 feet from the speakers, you have doubled distance twice: 1m to 2, 2m to 4m. So SPL will drop about 8 dB or so. So the 210's which make 98 dB at 1m with 1 watt will make about 90 dB at 12 ft or about 4m.

If you want reference level output of 105 dB peaks(probably louder than most listen in houses), we have to double power for every 3 dB of SPL, so:

1 watt = 90 dB
2 watts for 93 dB
4 watts for 96
8 watts for 99
16 watts for 102
32 watts for 105 dB if you are 12 feet away. This *does not* account for eq which, even if you are limiting eq to below 300 Hz as you should be doing for well designed speakers, Audysey will most certainly be boosting dips in the response below 300Hz by up to 6 dB. This doubles power requirement two more times, so:

64 watts for 3 dB of eq.
128 watts for 6 dB of eq.

This means that most decent AVR's should be able to drive PSA 210 speakers to reference level at 12' even with room correction eq applied...but as you can see.....it will be at the limit of what most AVR's can supply.

This clearly shows why most(all?) low sensitivity speakers will not be able to produce anywhere remotely close to clean reference level output, since they require ten times as much power(1280 watts) to drive as PSA MTM210(assuming 88 dB rating and 8 ohms) to reference level with eq applied.
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post #8973 of 8986 Old 01-12-2020, 12:49 AM
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For those interested, I have a pair of MT-110surrounds listed in the classifieds.
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post #8974 of 8986 Old 01-12-2020, 10:24 PM
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Finally got the theater up and running today for the first time! The PSA speakers sound freaking awesome! 3 psa 210’s (all vertical) up front with a V3600i and 4 110sr’s for side surrounds and backs. Also put 4 rsl 34’s in-ceiling for Atmos. Really excited about watching a movie with the family tomorrow night! Just have to build the panels around the screen.
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post #8975 of 8986 Old 01-13-2020, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by woodboss83 View Post
Finally got the theater up and running today for the first time! The PSA speakers sound freaking awesome! 3 psa 210’s (all vertical) up front with a V3600i and 4 110sr’s for side surrounds and backs. Also put 4 rsl 34’s in-ceiling for Atmos. Really excited about watching a movie with the family tomorrow night! Just have to build the panels around the screen.
Awesome room. Congrats

Video Samsung UN65KS8000, Sony UBP-UX80
Audio Denon X4500H, PSA MTM-210T, MTM-210C, MT-110 X2, SVS PB12NSD & SVS PB1-ISD
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post #8976 of 8986 Old 01-14-2020, 06:54 AM
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Finally joined the PSA speaker family. I got some used MT110s. I can't quite tell (haven't spent a ton of time with them) if they have much better sound quality at normal listening volumes than my Def Tech SM65s, but once you crank the volume to reference, it is very clear these don't give up. They just keep going and act like they could go louder and louder.
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Tim S.
Former 35mm and Digital Projectionist @ Regal Cinemas (circa 2012)

Currently watching on: JVC X790, 106" 0.8 Gain Screen, FireTV Stick 4K, Oppo 203, w/Marantz SR6011, 2 Outlaw M2200, Outlaw Model 5000, SVS Subs, PSA and Def Tech Speakers
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post #8977 of 8986 Old 01-14-2020, 10:03 AM
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I am very anxious to see Tom's smaller offering this year. I have limited space in my built in and a MT-110 or MT-210 will not fit as a center.
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post #8978 of 8986 Old 01-16-2020, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
Finally joined the PSA speaker family. I got some used MT110s. I can't quite tell (haven't spent a ton of time with them) if they have much better sound quality at normal listening volumes than my Def Tech SM65s, but once you crank the volume to reference, it is very clear these don't give up. They just keep going and act like they could go louder and louder.

They are great speakers.

i'm getting my 110's tomorrow, they are for the surround back duties, retiring the old SVS's!
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PSA MTM 210T's, MTM 210C, MT 110SR, V-1800, V-1801
65" LG 4K, Denon AVR-X4300H, EAT B Sharp Turntable, Xbox One X
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post #8979 of 8986 Old Yesterday, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodboss83 View Post
Finally got the theater up and running today for the first time! The PSA speakers sound freaking awesome! 3 psa 210’s (all vertical) up front with a V3600i and 4 110sr’s for side surrounds and backs. Also put 4 rsl 34’s in-ceiling for Atmos. Really excited about watching a movie with the family tomorrow night! Just have to build the panels around the screen.
Looks great!!! Congrats! These speakers are no joke.

PSA MTM 210T, PSA MTM210C, Tsi 200'sDenon AVR 3300WSilver Ticket 92'' 16;9 White ScreenBenq HT2050 Projector, Nintendo Switch,Panasonic DMP-BDT 210SVS PB-4000Auralex MoPAD Paragon 4oz Theater Pop Popcorn MachineLogitech Harmony Elite
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post #8980 of 8986 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Another update here. I'm in the process of watching all the Daniel Craig Bond movies (haven't seen them yet). Quantum of Solace sounded phenomenal last night. Every time I watch a movie and crank it up it reminds me I made the right choice. I only have PSA for my LCR. These people that have a full 5 or 7+ PSA speaker set up, I'm jealous.

Love these speakers.
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PSA MTM 210T, PSA MTM210C, Tsi 200'sDenon AVR 3300WSilver Ticket 92'' 16;9 White ScreenBenq HT2050 Projector, Nintendo Switch,Panasonic DMP-BDT 210SVS PB-4000Auralex MoPAD Paragon 4oz Theater Pop Popcorn MachineLogitech Harmony Elite
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post #8981 of 8986 Old Yesterday, 11:40 PM
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Is anybody here using 3 MTM210C as LCR? In my room that's the only way to get the tweeter to as ear level as possible. Another alternative is to go for 3 MT110. But i am not sure how much performance i will be sacrificing if i take that route. Thanks,
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post #8982 of 8986 Old Yesterday, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
Another update here. I'm in the process of watching all the Daniel Craig Bond movies (haven't seen them yet). Quantum of Solace sounded phenomenal last night. Every time I watch a movie and crank it up it reminds me I made the right choice. I only have PSA for my LCR. These people that have a full 5 or 7+ PSA speaker set up, I'm jealous.

Love these speakers.
Listen to "Shanghai Drive" from Skyfall. Such an amazing OST! The beginning DB9/Alfa159 chase scene of QOS is also breathtaking.
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post #8983 of 8986 Old Today, 06:37 AM
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Is anybody here using 3 MTM210C as LCR? In my room that's the only way to get the tweeter to as ear level as possible. Another alternative is to go for 3 MT110. But i am not sure how much performance i will be sacrificing if i take that route. Thanks,
You would be laying them down horizontally? I would not go that route. Either stand them up and let the tweeter be a bit above ear level or go with the 110’s. MTM’s laying down horizontally is less than ideal - it will have lobing and possibly not sound as good.

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...nnel-designs-1
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post #8984 of 8986 Old Today, 10:03 AM
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That article was made to promote Seymour Screens. Hence the emphasis on lobbing. Majority of the people are using horizontal center which are in MTM configuration. If it was that bad, million dollar speaker companies with plethora of R&D wouldn’t move further with that design. That site is nothing but promo of RBH, Monoprice, RSL & SVS and they pump out articles to push their products.
But yes, certain crossover designs can often be affected this more severely. That’s the reason why I asked the question. I rather have an wall to wall CinemaScope screen than a 110” 16:9 screen like the “Audioholics Reference Theater” 🙄
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
Is anybody here using 3 MTM210C as LCR? In my room that's the only way to get the tweeter to as ear level as possible. Another alternative is to go for 3 MT110. But i am not sure how much performance i will be sacrificing if i take that route. Thanks,
You would be laying them down horizontally? I would not go that route. Either stand them up and let the tweeter be a bit above ear level or go with the 110’️s. MTM’️s laying down horizontally is less than ideal - it will have lobing and possibly not sound as good.

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...nnel-designs-1
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post #8985 of 8986 Old Today, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
That article was made to promote Seymour Screens. Hence the emphasis on lobbing. Majority of the people are using horizontal center which are in MTM configuration. If it was that bad, million dollar speaker companies with plethora of R&D wouldn’t move further with that design. That site is nothing but promo of RBH, Monoprice, RSL & SVS and they pump out articles to push their products.
But yes, certain crossover designs can often be affected this more severely. That’s the reason why I asked the question. I rather have an wall to wall CinemaScope screen than a 110” 16:9 screen like the “Audioholics Reference Theater” 🙄
I’m talking about using MTM laying down horizontally as L and R speakers that you asked about. For center it is still a compromise but one that most people have to make.

I think it would be less of a compromise to not have all tweeters at ear level than to lay MTM speakers down horizontally.

You could try it and then move them horizontally if/when it doesn’t sound good. Again just talking about the L/R

There are many articles that talk about lobing and how it isn’t ideal to have a MTM speaker laid on its side (that are not trying to sell a screen), that article just happened to be the first one that came up. If it was a good design you would see many L/R speaker made that way - there aren’t any.......

If you must lay them on their sides get 3 MT110’s as they will have no lobing issues and and the tweeters will all be at ear level. You will also save money and only lose 3db of efficiency, that is about it.

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post #8986 of 8986 Old Today, 11:17 AM
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True! What amazes me most is some of the biggest recording/mixing/mastering studios in Euro/NA uses horizontal MTM as monitors. 🏽

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
That article was made to promote Seymour Screens. Hence the emphasis on lobbing. Majority of the people are using horizontal center which are in MTM configuration. If it was that bad, million dollar speaker companies with plethora of R&D wouldn’️t move further with that design. That site is nothing but promo of RBH, Monoprice, RSL & SVS and they pump out articles to push their products.
But yes, certain crossover designs can often be affected this more severely. That’️s the reason why I asked the question. I rather have an wall to wall CinemaScope screen than a 110” 16:9 screen like the “Audioholics Reference Theater” 🙄
I’️m talking about using MTM laying down horizontally as L and R speakers that you asked about. For center it is still a compromise but one that most people have to make.

I think it would be less of a compromise to not have all tweeters at ear level than to lay MTM speakers down horizontally.

You could try it and then move them horizontally if/when it doesn’️t sound good. Again just talking about the L/R

There are many articles that talk about lobing and how it isn’️t ideal to have a MTM speaker laid on its side (that are not trying to sell a screen), that article just happened to be the first one that came up. If it was a good design you would see many L/R speaker made that way - there aren’️t any.......

If you must lay them on their sides get 3 MT110’️s as they will have no lobing issues and and the tweeters will all be at ear level. You will also save money and only lose 3db of efficiency, that is about it.
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