Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread - Page 304 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9091 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
I should've worded my question a little better. I guess i'm wondering if you have plans to make a speaker thats a tier or two higher than your current offerings? Something in the $2500-3000 per speaker range thats comparable to jtr's offering or even better.

Thank you for responding and for the pic I like what i'm seeing.
How do current PSA speakers not compare well to JTR offerings?



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post #9092 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewiz View Post
I was in the same boat as you. My current entertainment center shelves are way to small to house a 210c speaker. Down the road, the wife and I would like to have a projection screen and the only way we can do this is with an ultra short throw projector (there's an air duct in the way if we were to hang a projector).


So I've been browsing TV consoles for weeks and found a perfect one. Not sure what your budget is but I'm looking at BDI Corridor media center priced at $2,199 at a local furniture store. Checks all the boxes of housing a 210c speaker and down the road I can place an ultra short throw projector on top of it. Here's a video about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-oudkOpx6U
For that much money on a console, be sure and check out the Standout Designs offerings. A few years back I sprung for one. I consider it one of the best purchases I have ever made, for both furniture and home theater. The thing is on wheels, it's impecably crafted, it's beautiful, will last a lifetime, and the thing makes life SO much better when swapping components or changing wiring! Could never go without again.

I got the 72" Horizon model, and had it stretched to 74" so it would fit the MTM-210c. Here are the specs on what I got: Horizon EX 72" upsized to 74" (2" added to middle), Rose on Cherry, shelf + drawer edition, maximum center shelf drop (11.875" available height)

If you email Allan at Standout Designs he'll take care of you. Standout Designs is a family owned company with amazing customer service, and all made in USA. Kind of reminds me of Power Sound Audio, instead they do amazing high end media consoles.

Just like Tom and PSA, can't recommend enough Allan and Standout Designs.

https://www.standoutdesigns.com/

Edit: And as Alan P notes, wood slats in front of center channel?! Just no.
I did get these acoustic fabric grill kits for the console. Looks amazing, so clean, but don't have current pics of it. Pics I put here were before putting in those kits.
https://www.standoutdesigns.com/prod...media-consoles
https://www.standoutdesigns.com/prod...media-consoles
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LG OLED65B6P ~ Yamaha RX-A2000 ~ OPPO BDP-103D ~ PSA MTM-220C ~ PSA MTM-210T L/R ~ PSA MT-110SR ~ PSA MT-110 FP L/R ~ Dual PSA S3000i ~ PSA S3600i

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post #9093 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
How do current PSA speakers not compare well to JTR offerings?
I don't take it as a criticism of ours really. But jtr has much larger speakers that can play much louder, and extend much deeper....and cost much more too of course. I take it more as---will we entertain offering a larger, more powerful design that extends deeper.

Here's a few random thoughts.

* I'm hesitant to consider ANY new design that needs to go through the two finish booths. Reasons should be well known by now. So perhaps the new offering should only be offered in wood veneers?

* Most will still want a conventional looking center channel that isn't as large as a TV42. So you have to think about the compromises there in terms of height and width.

* Once the above compromises are in play, then we have to consider how they will affect the design choices for the mains. Ideally the front three speakers should be as similar as possible in overall design/performance/voicing.

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post #9094 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I don't take it as a criticism of ours really. But jtr has much larger speakers that can play much louder, and extend much deeper....and cost much more too of course. I take it more as---will we entertain offering a larger, more powerful design that extends deeper.



Here's a few random thoughts.



* I'm hesitant to consider ANY new design that needs to go through the two finish booths. Reasons should be well known by now. So perhaps the new offering should only be offered in wood veneers?



* Most will still want a conventional looking center channel that isn't as large as a TV42. So you have to think about the compromises there in terms of height and width.



* Once the above compromises are in play, then we have to consider how they will affect the design choices for the mains. Ideally the front three speakers should be as similar as possible in overall design/performance/voicing.



Tom V.

Team Power.


Well... I struggle to find a need for speakers to be more efficient than yours, at least for residential applications. But as others said, some want those options.

I do like your idea of active speakers. I think you should do that.


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post #9095 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
How do current PSA speakers not compare well to JTR offerings?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post54393281

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...omparison.html

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post #9096 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I don't take it as a criticism of ours really. But jtr has much larger speakers that can play much louder, and extend much deeper....and cost much more too of course. I take it more as---will we entertain offering a larger, more powerful design that extends deeper.

Here's a few random thoughts.

* I'm hesitant to consider ANY new design that needs to go through the two finish booths. Reasons should be well known by now. So perhaps the new offering should only be offered in wood veneers?

* Most will still want a conventional looking center channel that isn't as large as a TV42. So you have to think about the compromises there in terms of height and width.

* Once the above compromises are in play, then we have to consider how they will affect the design choices for the mains. Ideally the front three speakers should be as similar as possible in overall design/performance/voicing.

Tom V.
Team Power.
Thank you posting your thoughts and not taking my comment as criticism (it wasn't).

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JVC DLA-X590R (RS 440) projector
Stewart StudioTek 130 screen
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post #9097 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flweller View Post
For that much money on a console, be sure and check out the Standout Designs offerings. A few years back I sprung for one. I consider it one of the best purchases I have ever made, for both furniture and home theater. The thing is on wheels, it's impecably crafted, it's beautiful, will last a lifetime, and the thing makes life SO much better when swapping components or changing wiring! Could never go without again.

I got the 72" Horizon model, and had it stretched to 74" so it would fit the MTM-210c. Here are the specs on what I got: Horizon EX 72" upsized to 74" (2" added to middle), Rose on Cherry, shelf + drawer edition, maximum center shelf drop (11.875" available height)

If you email Allan at Standout Designs he'll take care of you. Standout Designs is a family owned company with amazing customer service, and all made in USA. Kind of reminds me of Power Sound Audio, instead they do amazing high end media consoles.

Just like Tom and PSA, can't recommend enough Allan and Standout Designs.

https://www.standoutdesigns.com/

Edit: And as Alan P notes, wood slats in front of center channel?! Just no.
I did get these acoustic fabric grill kits for the console. Looks amazing, so clean, but don't have current pics of it. Pics I put here were before putting in those kits.
https://www.standoutdesigns.com/prod...media-consoles
https://www.standoutdesigns.com/prod...media-consoles
Thanks for the info and I'll for sure check that website out.


My plan is to place the 210c on top of the console I posted above and mount my current 65" TV to the wall. If we do plan to get a projector down the road, that's a big IF, I've thought about putting the 210c inside and I could always remove the doors. I've also thought that a 85" would be just as good and with modular microLED TV's coming out, that's something that I'll keep my eye on as well, just have to see the price come down.....like a lot haha. Both the options I mentioned above (85" and modular microLED's) would allow me to keep the 210c on top of the console I'm considering in purchasing.
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post #9098 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewiz View Post
Thanks for the info and I'll for sure check that website out.


My plan is to place the 210c on top of the console I posted above and mount my current 65" TV to the wall. If we do plan to get a projector down the road, that's a big IF, I've thought about putting the 210c inside and I could always remove the doors. I've also thought that a 85" would be just as good and with modular microLED TV's coming out, that's something that I'll keep my eye on as well, just have to see the price come down.....like a lot haha. Both the options I mentioned above (85" and modular microLED's) would allow me to keep the 210c on top of the console I'm considering in purchasing.
Cool. It's good to get on the Standout Design mailing list, they frequently have some pretty good sales.

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post #9099 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flweller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewiz View Post
Thanks for the info and I'll for sure check that website out.


My plan is to place the 210c on top of the console I posted above and mount my current 65" TV to the wall. If we do plan to get a projector down the road, that's a big IF, I've thought about putting the 210c inside and I could always remove the doors. I've also thought that a 85" would be just as good and with modular microLED TV's coming out, that's something that I'll keep my eye on as well, just have to see the price come down.....like a lot haha. Both the options I mentioned above (85" and modular microLED's) would allow me to keep the 210c on top of the console I'm considering in purchasing.
Cool. It's good to get on the Standout Design mailing list, they frequently have some pretty good sales.
I sent Allen an email. My wife likes it in Black Ash
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post #9100 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I don't take it as a criticism of ours really. But jtr has much larger speakers that can play much louder, and extend much deeper....and cost much more too of course. I take it more as---will we entertain offering a larger, more powerful design that extends deeper.

Here's a few random thoughts.

* I'm hesitant to consider ANY new design that needs to go through the two finish booths. Reasons should be well known by now. So perhaps the new offering should only be offered in wood veneers?

* Most will still want a conventional looking center channel that isn't as large as a TV42. So you have to think about the compromises there in terms of height and width.

* Once the above compromises are in play, then we have to consider how they will affect the design choices for the mains. Ideally the front three speakers should be as similar as possible in overall design/performance/voicing.

Tom V.
Team Power.
I am going to be honest and say if there is a speaker that plays louder and cleaner then my 210T's I don't want it. These things absolutely crank... my ears tap out long before the speakers do. The only thing I could see you doing is potentially offering a full range speaker for those that want 2 channel stereo setups with no sub. However the 210's crossed @ 80hz have more clean output with simple AVR amplification then the human ear can tolerate for any length of time. I have even ran my 210T's full range with a +3db boost around 40hz and they still had plenty of output and bass. The thought of upgrading from these has yet to cross my mind in 4yrs.
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post #9101 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewiz View Post
I sent Allen an email. My wife likes it in Black Ash

I received a 72" Horizon in Espresso a couple of weeks ago and am happy with it. It is legitimately a nice piece of furniture and is far above the self-assembled, particle board consoles that are predominate. Also, it is assembled in the USA like PSA.
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post #9102 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 07:16 PM
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Holy Christ, got my volt 10's up and running to compliment my MT-110's and these things are like silly levels of size and weight more compared to the 6's!
Was able to still utilize the mounts I had with a little trickery.
Still have to re run Audyssey etc but very happy so far. Also waiting on my custom grills.
Now I have two extra volt 6's and thinking about adding them as rear surrounds lol
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post #9103 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kyzer soze View Post
Thank you posting your thoughts and not taking my comment as criticism (it wasn't).
No worries. Sometimes we get our fur all bristled---me for sure---and it's just because we cannot decipher the "tone" in the text as we read it. I bet 90% of the arguments here on AVS wouldn't happen if we were all sitting around a pool table/foos ball somewhere drinking a few rum and cokes. We all have little mannerisms when talking about hobbies like this that completely change the way text would be conveyed in person.

I have a few ideas I'm going to pursue for larger, better, speakers. But I'm skeptical if they ever move past the "wow, this sounds good and was fun to design" stage. One big reason for that is our production capabilities lag far behind current product demand. Another reason is space. I'm out of space. thinking about the possibility of new cabinets + woofers + tweeters + horns + inner and outer boxing all taking up 8-12 pallet spaces? I mean, it's not doable.

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post #9104 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
No worries. Sometimes we get our fur all bristled---me for sure---and it's just because we cannot decipher the "tone" in the text as we read it. I bet 90% of the arguments here on AVS wouldn't happen if we were all sitting around a pool table/foos ball somewhere drinking a few rum and cokes. We all have little mannerisms when talking about hobbies like this that completely change the way text would be conveyed in person.



I have a few ideas I'm going to pursue for larger, better, speakers. But I'm skeptical if they ever move past the "wow, this sounds good and was fun to design" stage. One big reason for that is our production capabilities lag far behind current product demand. Another reason is space. I'm out of space. thinking about the possibility of new cabinets + woofers + tweeters + horns + inner and outer boxing all taking up 8-12 pallet spaces? I mean, it's not doable.



Tom V.

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Tom, go to bed


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post #9105 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am going to be honest and say if there is a speaker that plays louder and cleaner then my 210T's I don't want it. These things absolutely crank... my ears tap out long before the speakers do. The only thing I could see you doing is potentially offering a full range speaker for those that want 2 channel stereo setups with no sub. However the 210's crossed @ 80hz have more clean output with simple AVR amplification then the human ear can tolerate for any length of time. I have even ran my 210T's full range with a +3db boost around 40hz and they still had plenty of output and bass. The thought of upgrading from these has yet to cross my mind in 4yrs.
I agree with all of the above. For the 99% out there the 210 designs are not going to compress at full reference levels. In MANY scenarios they will end up needing only 20w to 40w to get there. A true 98dB is a nice to have..

But there ARE a small minority that od need more capabilities in terms of output. Very large rooms for example. Or, some just want to brag "Hey, I played this concert at 10dB OVER reference in my 10,000 cu-ft room and it stayed clean! I was wearing ear protection at the time but..."

Or, as you reference, maybe just true 20-30hz extension(I still giggle a little when a brand says "extension to 32hz, sensitivity is 98dB, and these are $300 each!" Yeah...

Really, the BIG improvement in SQ would be active. But that's such a HUGE investment hurdle. If we ever get production up to demand...

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post #9106 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 09:28 PM
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Hi all, quick back order update.

We got all MT110 back orders shipped today.

So, as of right now, all speakers are actually "IN STOCK". I haven't been able to say that since when?

Any new order would ship within 1-2 business days.

HOWEVER(we all know that was coming).

Now I'm low of tweeters---i have around 40(?) left. I've cleaned out the B&C warehouse in NJ. But the good news is I have HUNDREDS of tweeters arriving in the container from Italy in about 5-6 weeks.

So with some luck(who the heck describes a potential lull in demand as "luck" lol?)....any outage will only be for 1-2 weeks?

Anyway, thanks to all for the continued demand AND for being so patient as we fulfill your orders.

Tom V.
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post #9107 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I agree with all of the above. For the 99% out there the 210 designs are not going to compress at full reference levels. In MANY scenarios they will end up needing only 20w to 40w to get there. A true 98dB is a nice to have..



But there ARE a small minority that od need more capabilities in terms of output. Very large rooms for example. Or, some just want to brag "Hey, I played this concert at 10dB OVER reference in my 10,000 cu-ft room and it stayed clean! I was wearing ear protection at the time but..."



Or, as you reference, maybe just true 20-30hz extension(I still giggle a little when a brand says "extension to 32hz, sensitivity is 98dB, and these are $300 each!" Yeah...



Really, the BIG improvement in SQ would be active. But that's such a HUGE investment hurdle. If we ever get production up to demand...



Tom V.

Team Power.


Active ftw

These speakers are the best I’ve ever...


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...studio-monitor


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post #9108 of 9140 Old 02-14-2020, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I don't take it as a criticism of ours really. But jtr has much larger speakers that can play much louder, and extend much deeper....and cost much more too of course. I take it more as---will we entertain offering a larger, more powerful design that extends deeper.

Here's a few random thoughts.

* I'm hesitant to consider ANY new design that needs to go through the two finish booths. Reasons should be well known by now. So perhaps the new offering should only be offered in wood veneers?

* Most will still want a conventional looking center channel that isn't as large as a TV42. So you have to think about the compromises there in terms of height and width.

* Once the above compromises are in play, then we have to consider how they will affect the design choices for the mains. Ideally the front three speakers should be as similar as possible in overall design/performance/voicing.

Tom V.
Team Power.
As someone with a full JTR setup, I often recommend your speakers to others. I know how awesome my JTRs sound, and I know you have similar design goals, and you do it at half the price. I think both brands fill a very needed niche in the market, just at different price points.

I agree that if you go all out, you need to go active. I'd love to see a high end (3-4k) each? fully active system from PSA. It surprises me that even top designs from science oriented companies like Revel are still passive. Why do you think so many cost no object speakers from other manufacturers are still passive? I feel like they're trying to appease rich audiophiles with $20k+ amp setups who have fooled themselves into thinking that an active system can't possibly match their $20k external amps.
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post #9109 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewiz View Post
I was in the same boat as you. My current entertainment center shelves are way to small to house a 210c speaker. Down the road, the wife and I would like to have a projection screen and the only way we can do this is with an ultra short throw projector (there's an air duct in the way if we were to hang a projector).


So I've been browsing TV consoles for weeks and found a perfect one. Not sure what your budget is but I'm looking at BDI Corridor media center priced at $2,199 at a local furniture store. Checks all the boxes of housing a 210c speaker and down the road I can place an ultra short throw projector on top of it. Here's a video about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-oudkOpx6U
I have the BDI Corridor 8179 that you were looking at and absolutely love it.
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post #9110 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 08:53 AM
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One of those links isn't really much of a fair 'comparison'.. It offers criticisms for our 210 like "sealed means less "midbass". I mean, okay...but who does that apply too? The 0.1% who may try to use these without a subwoofer? And why aren't the ADVANTAGES of a sealed design over ported also explained?

Here is another link.

The comparisons seem to start around page 7 IIRC.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html

I think we did very well against competition(including jtr) that cost significantly more.

Also, I believe our customer service and fit and finish differentiates us as well for many shoppers. There's a reason why our cabinets cost so much more to manufacture than a simple one pass heavy coat that looks like a bedliner. And for those that look at details like the grill quality and fit-finish...there's a HUGE difference. Some may say "who cares if the grill looks like my kids did it with a staple gun...I dont use them anyway!". That's fine. Or little details like a logo on the product? I mean there's a certain level of finish quality needed to represent a brand. That can add considerable cost. If we changed from our current satin finish to a truck bedliner style we'd be able to drop the pricing on products between 10-20% the next day. THAT's how expensive and time consuming the satin finish is. And probably a reason why no one else in the USA(or canada) can quote us to reproduce it..

Tom V.
Team Power.
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post #9111 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:10 AM
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What is the best choice for a horizontal center, the 110c or 210c? Which would better match vertical mains?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, DUAL PSA XS30SE's, ATV4K, 75X940E, UBPX700
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post #9112 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:21 AM
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What is the best choice for a horizontal center, the 110c or 210c? Which would better match vertical mains?


They all voice the same. The best choice is three of the same speaker. Outside that you’d find only the most marginal detriment in the other two with little to speak of. I’d prefer the 210c just of of an abundance of comfort in my purchase.


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post #9113 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:23 AM
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What is the best choice for a horizontal center, the 110c or 210c? Which would better match vertical mains?
They will perform identical with a 80hz highpass excpet for two details.

The 210 is 3dB more sensitive so it can get louder.

The 210 (on it's side) will begin to lob around 16-18 degree iirc. So if you have key seating far off axis the 110 is best.(if you cannot use a vertical center channel orientation). If the far off axis seating is more for "casual" use. Let's say every weekend you have kids over for a Ren and Stimpy marathon. and a couple sit WAY off axis(like 25 degrees)..they aren't going to look at you and go "I think there's a narrow frequency dip at 800hz, stimpy's voice sound a little harsh?..

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post #9114 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:24 AM
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One of those links isn't really much of a fair 'comparison'.. It offers criticisms for our 210 like "sealed means less "midbass". I mean, okay...but who does that apply too? The 0.1% who may try to use these without a subwoofer? And why aren't the ADVANTAGES of a sealed design over ported also explained?



Here is another link.



The comparisons seem to start around page 7 IIRC.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html



I think we did very well against competition(including jtr) that cost significantly more.



Also, I believe our customer service and fit and finish differentiates us as well for many shoppers. There's a reason why our cabinets cost so much more to manufacture than a simple one pass heavy coat that looks like a bedliner. And for those that look at details like the grill quality and fit-finish...there's a HUGE difference. Some may say "who cares if the grill looks like my kids did it with a staple gun...I dont use them anyway!". That's fine. Or little details like a logo on the product? I mean there's a certain level of finish quality needed to represent a brand. That can add considerable cost. If we changed from our current satin finish to a truck bedliner style we'd be able to drop the pricing on products between 10-20% the next day. THAT's how expensive and time consuming the satin finish is. And probably a reason why no one else in the USA(or canada) can quote us to reproduce it..



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I love these speakers. I’m glad there’s an efficient tower that has a sealed cabinet, sacrificing a low end I’ll never use due to subs, and making efficacy even higher.


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post #9115 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:26 AM
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They will perform identical with a 80hz highpass excpet for two details.



The 210 is 3dB more sensitive so it can get louder.



The 210 (on it's side) will begin to lob around 16-18 degree iirc. So if you have key seating far off axis the 110 is best.(if you cannot use a vertical center channel orientation). If the far off axis seating is more for "casual" use. Let's say every weekend you have kids over for a Ren and Stimpy marathon. and a couple sit WAY off axis(like 25 degrees)..they aren't going to look at you and go "I think there's a narrow frequency dip at 800hz, stimpy's voice sound a little harsh?..



Tom V.

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I got the name from someone on the forums for that location far off axis usually also next to a subwoofer as the mother in law seat. lol


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post #9116 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 09:29 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Speaker Thread



I think @raynist has had both. So he can chime in here and give his views.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #9117 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 10:07 AM
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I was in the same boat as you. My current entertainment center shelves are way to small to house a 210c speaker. Down the road, the wife and I would like to have a projection screen and the only way we can do this is with an ultra short throw projector (there's an air duct in the way if we were to hang a projector).


So I've been browsing TV consoles for weeks and found a perfect one. Not sure what your budget is but I'm looking at BDI Corridor media center priced at $2,199 at a local furniture store. Checks all the boxes of housing a 210c speaker and down the road I can place an ultra short throw projector on top of it. Here's a video about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-oudkOpx6U
I have the BDI Corridor 8179 that you were looking at and absolutely love it.
Looks like you have the center channel in the console. Any issues with the sound?
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post #9118 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 10:12 AM
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Does the 210c have similar off axis numbers? Or is the 210c and 110c the same dispersement just with more power in the latter?
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post #9119 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 01:12 PM
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Looks like you have the center channel in the console. Any issues with the sound?
I haven't noticed any difference from when I had it placed in my old entertainment console (without slats in front of the center channel) though I didn't do any sort of testing. Looks far better IMO this way as well.
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post #9120 of 9140 Old 02-15-2020, 01:47 PM
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Does the 210c have similar off axis numbers? Or is the 210c and 110c the same dispersement just with more power in the latter?
110C will perform better off axis than the 210. However, if you don't sit more than 15 degrees off axis, it won't matter much, and aesthetics might be just as meaningful if you prefer the look of an MTM center.

If you can spare a few extra inches, just use the 110 vertically for the most optimal solution.
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