Hi end speakers with some mid tier equipment - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 107 Old 09-23-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
The baffle of the subs need to be less than 1/4 wavelength from the wall, the baffle of the mains more than 1/4 wavelength. For an 80Hz crossover from the subs to the mains 1/4 wavelength at 80Hz is 3.5 feet, so less than 3 feet for the subs and more than 4 feet for the mains works well. If you don't have subs then you can't eliminate Allison Effect unless the speakers are either flush mounted in the wall or the baffle is close enough to the wall so that the 1/4 wavelength frequency is above the baffle step frequency, where radiation is directional and there is no reflection off the rear wall. The baf fle step frequency is where the baffle is 1 wavelength wide. At about 8 inches wide the 6T baffle step is around 1600Hz, the 13 inch depth is 1/4 wavelength at 260Hz, so close to the wall placement won't help.

Thanks .....


Informative post......


What would the #s be if one uses a 60Hz crossover for the mains ?


Thanks


Shelly
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post #62 of 107 Old 09-23-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
I agree.....


My way of thinking is that a pair of speakers, upgrading from what I have, will give a much greater improvement, than a separate amp and preamp, and DAC.....


I mean the Denon 5308 is not a bottom of the line receiver.....I do use the preouts to use a better amp.....all the receiver powers is my outdoor speakers, and the surrounds.....


Is a Krell preamp going to improve the sound more than a nice pair of tower speakers ?


I would doubt it.....


Shelly
Then the way I see it you are good to go, meaning the speaker up-grade is the best way to go.

Would the Krell make a difference?
Depend on the speakers and they would have to be of a quality that they can play the difference.

Electronics from my experience work like this;
Going from a receiver to a better receiver as pre-amp, a little, then moving to a real pre-amp, better but only a little, doubling the price of a pre-amp, again better but not by much (personal experience, receiver > outlaw 950 > Onkyo PRS886pro > Marants AV8801).
All better then the other, but in a very little way.

All these are subtle difference and nothing like night and day.
Only a good quality speaker can offer the building base of a system to your liking.

Speaker first and electronics second(as far for pre-amp).
You got a good amp and do beleive in real power amp, but you only use the receiver for surronds.

Sound to me like you are going to have an outstanding system

Happy listening

Ray
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post #63 of 107 Old 09-23-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
Thanks .....


Informative post......


What would the #s be if one uses a 60Hz crossover for the mains ?


Thanks


Shelly
I tried 60 and 80, but settle at 80 (some might have a different preference).

Ray
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post #64 of 107 Old 09-23-2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
That will result in an Allison Effect cancellation dip centered around 140Hz. Allison Effect is the primary reason why separate subs and mains work better, as the subs can be placed close enough to the wall behind the speakers and the mains far enough away from it, or flush mounted in it, so that there is no cancellation dip.


The baffle of the subs need to be less than 1/4 wavelength from the wall, the baffle of the mains more than 1/4 wavelength. For an 80Hz crossover from the subs to the mains 1/4 wavelength at 80Hz is 3.5 feet, so less than 3 feet for the subs and more than 4 feet for the mains works well. If you don't have subs then you can't eliminate Allison Effect unless the speakers are either flush mounted in the wall or the baffle is close enough to the wall so that the 1/4 wavelength frequency is above the baffle step frequency, where radiation is directional and there is no reflection off the rear wall. The baffle step frequency is where the baffle is 1 wavelength wide. At about 8 inches wide the 6T baffle step is around 1600Hz, the 13 inch depth is 1/4 wavelength at 260Hz, so close to the wall placement won't help.


Very helpful to me, as well. Many thanks Bill.
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post #65 of 107 Old 09-23-2014, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
+1. There are some numbers that matter, and there are some that don't. For instance, one can very easily be impressed by an amp that has 0.001% THD and assume that it must sound better than one with 0.1% THD. The flaw in that assumption is that you can't even hear 1% THD.
Towers have one and only one advantage over bookshelves, that being low frequency capability. If you don't have subs that matters. If you do, it doesn't. OTOH where placement is concerned low frequency sources and higher frequency sources very seldom work as well as possible when sharing the same footprint. 99% of the time you will get a better result with bookshelves placed where they work best, and subs placed where they work best. The size of the room doesn't change that fact. This room is considerably larger than yours, but you'll note that the system still consists of 'bookshelves', ie., speakers optimized for use above 80Hz, and separate subs:
My preference for tower fall into this thinking.

I will use my speakers for an exemple;
My aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf specification are as follow +/- 3db 59hz to ...
My aperion Verus Grand towers spec are +/- 3db 45 hz to ...

So you and most of us know a crossover is not a brick wall (using 80 hz for an example).
Some content of the sound will be trickle down pass the crossover point.

I do agree with you that most set-up with a bookshelf and quality Sub do a great job for a lot less money.

The only advantage of a tower cross at 80hz compare to a bookshelf (very small) would be when you listen loudly to a bass heavy movie or some song, would be the speaker does not have try to play those lower frequency since the speaker was design to go lower in frequency.

Not much of a difference, just very subtile.
Just my preference from my experience

No hard feeling (I hope)

Ray

Last edited by darthray; 09-23-2014 at 09:13 PM.
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post #66 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Then the way I see it you are good to go, meaning the speaker up-grade is the best way to go.

Would the Krell make a difference?
Depend on the speakers and they would have to be of a quality that they can play the difference.

Electronics from my experience work like this;
Going from a receiver to a better receiver as pre-amp, a little, then moving to a real pre-amp, better but only a little, doubling the price of a pre-amp, again better but not by much (personal experience, receiver > outlaw 950 > Onkyo PRS886pro > Marants AV8801).
All better then the other, but in a very little way.

All these are subtle difference and nothing like night and day.
Only a good quality speaker can offer the building base of a system to your liking.

Speaker first and electronics second(as far for pre-amp).
You got a good amp and do beleive in real power amp, but you only use the receiver for surronds.

Sound to me like you are going to have an outstanding system

Happy listening

Ray


Hello Ray,

As far as preamps go, it was more like you went;

Class D -> Class D-> Class D-> Class D.

Ofcourse sonic difference would be minimal LOL.


as far as speakers, yes I would also agree that speakers would in fact make the most difference. If your speakers are weak, everything prior in chain won't be able to do a thing to change it.



For OP,

I would spend 50% on speakers, 20% on integrated amp, 20% on DAC, 10% in cables.

For integrated amp, I would recommend Hegel H200.
For DAC, Chord Hugo or Auralic Vega.
For cables, I would recommend Kimber Kables. (Entry line/nothing fancy)

Try to get them all used. Look on Audiogon or Audiomart, AudioAsylum, Headfi.org

Or, you can use WWW.Hifishark.com

It's like a Google search engine for Audiophilles. You type in what you want, and it will do a search for you for current used gear for sale.

You will have an excellent system.


-Peace

Last edited by NAIM101; 09-24-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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post #67 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 05:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
My preference for tower fall into this thinking.
I will use my speakers for an exemple;
My aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf specification are as follow +/- 3db 59hz to ...
My aperion Verus Grand towers spec are +/- 3db 45 hz to ...
You can't just look at the frequency specs. The Verus Grand bookshelf has a single 5 inch midbass driver. The Verus Grand tower has two 5 inch midbasses, as well as two 6 inch woofers. With both running to only 80Hz the tower will have a significant advantage just by dint of the cone area. But as fully half the size of the cabinet is there to allow the 6 inchers to work to 45Hz it's wasted space, and money, if they're only being used to 80Hz.
It would be interesting if Aperion offered both a tower and a bookshelf at $999, but they don't. I expect that the $799 Verus Grand Center with two 6 inch midbasses would at least equal the tower above 80Hz, though there's no way to be sure, as Aperion doesn't post the data necessary to make that determination. It's odd that Aperion doesn't make a vertical version of the 2x6 center, as it would be a far better performer than the 1x5 bookshelf model.
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post #68 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
The baffle of the subs need to be less than 1/4 wavelength from the wall, the baffle of the mains more than 1/4 wavelength. For an 80Hz crossover from the subs to the mains 1/4 wavelength at 80Hz is 3.5 feet, so less than 3 feet for the subs and more than 4 feet for the mains works well. If you don't have subs then you can't eliminate Allison Effect unless the speakers are either flush mounted in the wall or the baffle is close enough to the wall so that the 1/4 wavelength frequency is above the baffle step frequency, where radiation is directional and there is no reflection off the rear wall. The baffle step frequency is where the baffle is 1 wavelength wide. At about 8 inches wide the 6T baffle step is around 1600Hz, the 13 inch depth is 1/4 wavelength at 260Hz, so close to the wall placement won't help.
Thanks Bill . So, the front face is actually 3' from the rear wall, the original measurement I gave was from the back edge of the speaker. I will pull it out 1 ft. or so.
What should I be listening for? Perhaps it is time to 'scope the room, but realistically, options are limited. Need to Google Allison effect to understand better.
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post #69 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
Hello Ray,

As far as preamps go, it was more like you went;

Class D -> Class D-> Class D-> Class D.

Ofcourse sonic difference would be minimal LOL.


as far as speakers, yes I would also agree that speakers would in fact make the most difference. If your speakers are weak, everything prior in chain won't be able to do a thing to change it.



For OP,

I would spend 50% on speakers, 20% on integrated amp, 20% on DAC, 10% in cables.

For integrated amp, I would recommend Hegel H200.
For DAC, Chord Hugo or Auralic Vega.
For cables, I would recommend Kimber Kables. (Entry line/nothing fancy)

Try to get them all used. Look on Audiogon or Audiomart, AudioAsylum, Headfi.org

Or, you can use WWW.Hifishark.com

It's like a Google search engine for Audiophilles. You type in what you want, and it will do a search for you for current used gear for sale.

You will have an excellent system.


-Peace
I don't understand something....

I posted here with a question about upgrading my speakers....

And now, you have me replacing my whole system....

Why is that ?....

Not very helpful either......

Shelly
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post #70 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 09:36 AM
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Oops sorry, I keep forgetting you already have an amp. Oh well, if you ever decide to upgrade or downgrade your components later down the line, there are some of your options. Goodluck on your setup.


-peace
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post #71 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 10:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Perhaps it is time to 'scope the room,
That's the only way to know what's happening, and whether alternate placement will give enough improvement to be worthwhile. But Allison Effect can give as much as 24dB of suck out, so it should be paid attention to. The problem is that few consumers are aware of it, and fewer manufacturers make any mention of it in their literature.
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post #72 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
That's the only way to know what's happening, and whether alternate placement will give enough improvement to be worthwhile. But Allison Effect can give as much as 24dB of suck out, so it should be paid attention to. The problem is that few consumers are aware of it, and fewer manufacturers make any mention of it in their literature.
Bill, would effective absorption at the offending frequencies on those boundaries mitigate that effect? Or is it independent of absorption?
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post #73 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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Bill, would effective absorption at the offending frequencies on those boundaries mitigate that effect?
It will, but it takes a lot of material thickness covering the entire wall to have enough of an effect below 400Hz.
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post #74 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
You can't just look at the frequency specs. The Verus Grand bookshelf has a single 5 inch midbass driver. The Verus Grand tower has two 5 inch midbasses, as well as two 6 inch woofers. With both running to only 80Hz the tower will have a significant advantage just by dint of the cone area. But as fully half the size of the cabinet is there to allow the 6 inchers to work to 45Hz it's wasted space, and money, if they're only being used to 80Hz.
It would be interesting if Aperion offered both a tower and a bookshelf at $999, but they don't. I expect that the $799 Verus Grand Center with two 6 inch midbasses would at least equal the tower above 80Hz, though there's no way to be sure, as Aperion doesn't post the data necessary to make that determination. It's odd that Aperion doesn't make a vertical version of the 2x6 center, as it would be a far better performer than the 1x5 bookshelf model.
I agree about you can't only look at the specification and I also said "you gain just a little in the mid/bass, not much" with towers.

As you said "It's odd that Aperion doesn't make a vertical version of the 2x6 center, as it would be a far better performer than the 1x5 bookshelf model."(also better in my book).

If they had such a better bookshelf, I would have got 4 of them for my surronds duty.
And still went the towers as main.

If there was such a bookshelf, I would got the towers for look since the towers are fairly slim.
By the time you add a stand for the Bookshelf, the towers take the same floor space.
The tower are slim, nice finish and look good.
Also got some very good reviews (the best? No, but there is always something better).

For the look thing;
If you look at the picture of my theater (show you speaker thread).
I have spend a lot of money for it, outriggers from
http://www.soundocity.com/Straight_End_1.50_Spikes.html even the center speaker stand
DIY speaker cable cheap to made (unless your try half a dozen combination of wires, sleeve and cable pants, like I did) not sound wise, but look only.

So for me the towers was a no brainer, even it was a slight improvement of sound with their current offering of bookshelf.

Ray
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post #75 of 107 Old 09-24-2014, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post


1. Revel Salon2 and Studio2
2. B&W 802 Diamond and 800 Diamond
3. Magico S3 and S5.... (S5 is a demo pair)
Whichever is best for you is what counts. But you should really be using a more appropriate Mcintosh processor with XLR for the Mcintosh amplifier since price doesn't seem to be an issue here.

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post #76 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 12:36 AM
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Perhaps Mcintosh D100 would do.

In this case, I recommend the B&W speakers since the OP has Mcintosh amps already. They pair really well together.

Last edited by NAIM101; 09-25-2014 at 12:55 AM.
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post #77 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
Whichever is best for you is what counts. But you should really be using a more appropriate Mcintosh processor with XLR for the Mcintosh amplifier since price doesn't seem to be an issue here.

XLRs aren't going to give him what he's after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
Perhaps Mcintosh D100 would do.



In this case, I recommend the B&W speakers since the OP has Mcintosh amps already. They pair really well together.

Heard some 804s(?) yesterday that sounded great. Think they retailed for $7500.


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post #78 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
Whichever is best for you is what counts. But you should really be using a more appropriate Mcintosh processor with XLR for the Mcintosh amplifier since price doesn't seem to be an issue here.
Well...money is not unlimited.....

While I will be getting an influx of unexpected cash, the system upgrade is at the bottom of the list....

Numerous things have a higher priority...

so the speaker upgrade will get what is remaining....

I think at this point, better speakers will be a better bang for the buck , than a new processor....

hence....the speaker upgrade.....

and I will upgrade the other components as $$ becomes available......

Shelly
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post #79 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Absolutely, and the price paid for 'as good as it gets' keeps coming down. The processors are computers. How's your current computer compare in bang for the buck compared to what you were using two computer generations ago?
I would disagree with that

when you say as good as it gets...I assume you mean reference components?...Anthem, Krell,McIntosh, Classe
I haven't seen these price reductions you speak of....

the only thing I have seen fall, in price, is the Asians every 12-18 months as they change products.models yet again and try to entice you into the market and try to move their last years inventory

I dont consider those products "as good as it gets"

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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post #80 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 04:49 PM
 
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when you say as good as it gets...I assume you mean reference components?...Anthem, Krell,McIntosh, Classe
Those are certainly fine products, but they don't work any better than many choices at a fraction of their price, unless you think that because they're expensive that they must, in which case, they do.
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post #81 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Those are certainly fine products, but they don't work any better than many choices at a fraction of their price, unless you think that because they're expensive that they must, in which case, they do.
by the word "work"...I assume you mean they function for the use they were intended
in that case I agree with you

if by the word "work" you mean ultimate performance...then I would have to respectfully disagree with you in a big way
and that has absolutely nothing to do with their cost

they dont represent the best value

But what luxury item does?

why does Mercedes E class/BMW 5 series cost twice as much as an Accord/Camry
They are all sedans of almost identical size and capacity

Clearly...the Accord/Camry is a better value
they are just not the ultimate in performance

they all "work"..in the sense of that they function for the purpose they were designed

but to jive with your thinking
there is certainly someone out there that will tell you he "thinks" his Accord handles as well as a BMW 5 series....

to that I would say..."it sure does"....

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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post #82 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 06:31 PM
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It's usually you hear a component that wows you, you then ask for the price, and it's in the 6Ks. Normally in my personal experience, I don't go looking for a price tag label that says 10K, THEN go and decide to hear it.
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post #83 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
by the word "work"...I assume you mean they function for the use they were intended
in that case I agree with you

if by the word "work" you mean ultimate performance...then I would have to respectfully disagree with you in a big way
and that has absolutely nothing to do with their cost

they dont represent the best value

But what luxury item does?

why does Mercedes E class/BMW 5 series cost twice as much as an Accord/Camry
They are all sedans of almost identical size and capacity

Clearly...the Accord/Camry is a better value
they are just not the ultimate in performance

they all "work"..in the sense of that they function for the purpose they were designed

but to jive with your thinking
there is certainly someone out there that will tell you he "thinks" his Accord handles as well as a BMW 5 series....

to that I would say..."it sure does"....

Warren
I think if all you're doing is driving in a straight line at 65 mph, they're close enough to the same as makes no difference.

Which was sort of the original point. If you can't hear the difference, there is none, at least in terms of audibility.

(Build quality, aesthetics and prestige being something else, of course.)
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post #84 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 07:54 PM
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I think if all you're doing is driving in a straight line at 65 mph, they're close enough to the same as makes no difference.

)
......night and day difference in the ride( and everything else)
and that is just the beginning...really..
all they have in common is they are both cars and do the "work"...as you say

and like these products( and most others)...there is value and there is performance
Audio is no different

typically( perhaps all) products that represent the best value dont represent the best performance and vice versa

but like I said before
there is someone out there that will say that their Accord drives as well as a BMW 5 series.....

perhaps..in their mind it does....

though..typically they say that with little( or no) experience with the comparable


Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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post #85 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
Well...money is not unlimited.....

While I will be getting an influx of unexpected cash, the system upgrade is at the bottom of the list....

Numerous things have a higher priority...

so the speaker upgrade will get what is remaining....

I think at this point, better speakers will be a better bang for the buck , than a new processor....

hence....the speaker upgrade.....

and I will upgrade the other components as $$ becomes available......

Shelly
Shelly,

With your room volume of close to 5,500 cu. ft. and if you get an opportunity, have a listen to the Triton 1 from GoldenEars Technology: http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series?gktab=1

The T1 have high sensitivity of 92 dB/W/m, rated for 8 ohms which your existing receiver can easily drive. Price looks reasonable for a pair and well within your budget.

The main difference between other towers and the Tritons is the built in sub for reproducing the low frequencies. So you'll need decent wall outlet to feed the sub power supply. The T1 power supply requirement is 1,600W...

The reviews for GoldenEars Triton 2 (step down from the T1) have been pretty good. There is a nice review from Sound and Vision on the T1 here: http://www.goldenear.com/images/revi...S_Oct_2014.pdf

In a dealer's shop, had an opportunity to listen to the Triton 2 driven off a Cambride Audio AZUR 751R receiver playing SACD and the speakers sounded nice.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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post #86 of 107 Old 09-25-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
You can't just look at the frequency specs. The Verus Grand bookshelf has a single 5 inch midbass driver. The Verus Grand tower has two 5 inch midbasses, as well as two 6 inch woofers. With both running to only 80Hz the tower will have a significant advantage just by dint of the cone area. But as fully half the size of the cabinet is there to allow the 6 inchers to work to 45Hz it's wasted space, and money, if they're only being used to 80Hz.
It would be interesting if Aperion offered both a tower and a bookshelf at $999, but they don't. I expect that the $799 Verus Grand Center with two 6 inch midbasses would at least equal the tower above 80Hz, though there's no way to be sure, as Aperion doesn't post the data necessary to make that determination. It's odd that Aperion doesn't make a vertical version of the 2x6 center, as it would be a far better performer than the 1x5 bookshelf model.
Bill, I was trying to send this as a PM, but could not figure out how to do it

Do you mind if I quote you in the aperion forum since you are speaker designer with your own company?

I think the "vertical version of the 2x6 center" would be a great thing.

I know it is a public forum, but want to make sure you are OK with it.
Chance that aperion look at this thread are very slim (I think).

Just want to make sure you are OK with it!

Ray
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post #87 of 107 Old 09-26-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
by the word "work"...I assume you mean they function for the use they were intended
in that case I agree with you

if by the word "work" you mean ultimate performance...then I would have to respectfully disagree with you in a big way
and that has absolutely nothing to do with their cost
What you say is true for people who have never engaged in bias controlled listening tests. For those of us who have, we will say that the electronics in an audio system have almost nothing to do with sound quality at all, regardless of price. Sound quality is in the transducers and room acoustics, both of which walk all over any possible subtle affect of a source or amplifier.

The smart audiophile does the speakers and room acoustics the best he can and lets the rest of the system fall where it may.
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post #88 of 107 Old 09-26-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
......night and day difference in the ride( and everything else)
and that is just the beginning...really..
all they have in common is they are both cars and do the "work"...as you say

and like these products( and most others)...there is value and there is performance
Audio is no different

typically( perhaps all) products that represent the best value dont represent the best performance and vice versa

but like I said before
there is someone out there that will say that their Accord drives as well as a BMW 5 series.....

perhaps..in their mind it does....

though..typically they say that with little( or no) experience with the comparable


Warren
It isn't a bad analogy actually. The purpose of a car is to transport people where they want to go. No question that the luxury car will do that with more comfort, quiet, handling etc. and other benefits unrelated to transportation. But in the end the transportation becomes complete either way.

In audio the purpose is to reproduce sound faithfully and virtually all electronics in the high fidelity world will do that. The expensive stuff provides more visual pleasure, better bragging rights and a host of other benefits unrelated to sound. But in the end the faithful sound reproduction becomes complete either way.
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post #89 of 107 Old 09-26-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
What you say is true for people who have never engaged in bias controlled listening tests. For those of us who have, we will say that the electronics in an audio system have almost nothing to do with sound quality at all, regardless of price. Sound quality is in the transducers and room acoustics, both of which walk all over any possible subtle affect of a source or amplifier.

The smart audiophile does the speakers and room acoustics the best he can and lets the rest of the system fall where it may.
I would disagree with you
I have done a bis test and came away with a different opinion

different electronics

same professionally sound treated room., same speakers and both pre/pros calibrated with their respective
systems. In this case Audessey XT32 and ARC
better sound and finer details...especially in 2 channel audio from the higher end electronics

worth the difference in $$?
completely up to the persons ears and wallet
I dont doubt that most anyone can hear a difference
Though just like anything else...the laws of diminishing returns applies

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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post #90 of 107 Old 09-26-2014, 06:46 AM
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Using calibration tool tells more about the tool's effect on sound than the electronics.
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