Dolby Atmos upward-firing module speakers - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 3152 Old 01-25-2016, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Nice


I've seen many that say this movie is not the best for Atmos and I've found it very good. I do remember before I had my stuff dialed in, I thought is was a little weak on the Atmos front. Since swapping RP-140's for AT-44's and getting stuff dialed in it's been a great Atmos effect move. And the bass is fantastic.
Hello,
Wow The Transformers movie has some of the best Atmos Effects I have heard. I really feel sorry for the people who have not been able to get the proper effects from there systems. I have the Martin Logan AFX mods and they are amazing!
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post #812 of 3152 Old 01-25-2016, 07:12 PM
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I'm watching Terminator Genisys and find the sound quite excellent.

There is a scene about 3/4 through the movie, while driving the school bus, once they pass through the tunnel, evil John Conner drops onto the bus roof with a motorcycle. He then begins to walk on the buses roof while Arnold and Kyle shoot up at the roof. During that scene, the footsteps on the roof give a very good overhead Atmos effect while the bullet hits on the roof do not.

I don't know how it sounds to some of you but I get a sense that the deeper sounds give me a better overhead effect while higher freq sounds do not. I wonder if its side-spill from the tweeter or lack of volume for that bullet effect but I may need to do some more listening/testing to be sure.
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post #813 of 3152 Old 01-25-2016, 07:58 PM
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I added the little birds to my set up. Besides the adjustable angle and wall mount options the drivers are recessed slightly cutting down on spill. I am still playing around with angles though. So does any one mind telling me where their Atmos speakers are hitting the ceiling at? Here are my room specs if any one wants to make suggestions as well.

Room is 14x17 using the 14 for the length and only 15 ft width
Couch is 3 feet from back wall
MLP is 9 feet from screen
Ceiling is 8 feet

Front speakers are 10 feet apart facing straight back
Atmos speakers are on top of those angled at 25 degrees
Firing point spot is about 5 ft in front of the MLP and about 5 feet to left and right
Rears are on stands about 7 feet to each side
Both rears have one side wall open (back or side of room)
Atmos are firing about 5 ft to left and right but only about a foot behind mlp
All Atmos speakers are 3.5 ft from the ceiling

Other than that, my wife says she can hear the difference which is surprising.

Also the Atmos demo stuff on vudu, only for one to convert to Atmos. Anyone else notice that?
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post #814 of 3152 Old 01-25-2016, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
I added the little birds to my set up. Besides the adjustable angle and wall mount options the drivers are recessed slightly cutting down on spill. I am still playing around with angles though. So does any one mind telling me where their Atmos speakers are hitting the ceiling at? Here are my room specs if any one wants to make suggestions as well.

Room is 14x17 using the 14 for the length and only 15 ft width
Couch is 3 feet from back wall
MLP is 9 feet from screen
Ceiling is 8 feet

Front speakers are 10 feet apart facing straight back
Atmos speakers are on top of those angled at 25 degrees
Firing point spot is about 5 ft in front of the MLP and about 5 feet to left and right
Rears are on stands about 7 feet to each side
Both rears have one side wall open (back or side of room)
Atmos are firing about 5 ft to left and right but only about a foot behind mlp
All Atmos speakers are 3.5 ft from the ceiling

Other than that, my wife says she can hear the difference which is surprising.

Also the Atmos demo stuff on vudu, only for one to convert to Atmos. Anyone else notice that?
I couldn't really give a comparative suggestion ATM since my room/speaker config is very different from yours. I have everything setup in a temporary fashion in a really lousy way in a small room.

My MLP is proabably 6 ft from AE speakers and are angled at about 20°. They are 3.9 ft from the ceiling and spread about 4 ft apart.

It took a lot of trial and error but I got the Little Birds to sound pretty good. My biggest gain came from the AVR settings (no audio compression or EQ of any type aside from basic Audyssey) and boosting the AE speaker levels up a bit.

Also take note of what your ceiling material is made of.

Hopefully in a few weeks I'll be moved into another residence with similar dimensions to your room and report back once it's setup and dialed in.
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post #815 of 3152 Old 01-25-2016, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
I added the little birds to my set up. Besides the adjustable angle and wall mount options the drivers are recessed slightly cutting down on spill. I am still playing around with angles though. So does any one mind telling me where their Atmos speakers are hitting the ceiling at? Here are my room specs if any one wants to make suggestions as well.

Room is 14x17 using the 14 for the length and only 15 ft width
Couch is 3 feet from back wall
MLP is 9 feet from screen
Ceiling is 8 feet

Front speakers are 10 feet apart facing straight back
Atmos speakers are on top of those angled at 25 degrees
Firing point spot is about 5 ft in front of the MLP and about 5 feet to left and right
Rears are on stands about 7 feet to each side
Both rears have one side wall open (back or side of room)
Atmos are firing about 5 ft to left and right but only about a foot behind mlp
All Atmos speakers are 3.5 ft from the ceiling

Other than that, my wife says she can hear the difference which is surprising.

Also the Atmos demo stuff on vudu, only for one to convert to Atmos. Anyone else notice that?
Wow my setup is almost identical in dimensions as yours. I'm currently set for 5.2.2 (klipsch 140sa) on my fronts and I was considering getting a set of the pioneer bookshelf with the atmos module for the surrounds back but figured it was way to close to the mlp and other speakers. But are you doing 5 main speakers or 7?and if you have 7.1.4 does it feel too tight?
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post #816 of 3152 Old 01-26-2016, 02:27 AM
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I am doing 5.2.4. 7 would be in the walkway which is already down to 3 feet wide. I will post some pics if I can clean up some more. The room is really open on one side and might have worked long ways but the receiver is limited to 9 total channels (pioneer sc85).

P.s. ceiling is flat dry wall, no popcorn.
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post #817 of 3152 Old 01-26-2016, 07:58 PM
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What do you guys think about using klipsch rsx line for upfiring. They're on a ball mount so you can adjust as needed ?


http://www.klipsch.com/products/rsx-4-bookshelf-speaker
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post #818 of 3152 Old 02-02-2016, 02:24 PM
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Hi, just a clarification - I don't need atmos "modules" for existing speakers if I plan on installing 2 in-ceiling overhead speakers for atmos purposes, correct?

thanks
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post #819 of 3152 Old 02-02-2016, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by trueimage View Post
Hi, just a clarification - I don't need atmos "modules" for existing speakers if I plan on installing 2 in-ceiling overhead speakers for atmos purposes, correct?

thanks
Correct. But to clarify you need to decide if you want to install 2 or 4 in ceiling speakers.



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post #820 of 3152 Old 02-02-2016, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Correct. But to clarify you need to decide if you want to install 2 or 4 in ceiling speakers.



thanks. that would depend on having a 7.2 or 9.2 receiver right? The ones I'm looking at are only 7.2 so that would limit me to a 5.1.2 atmos setup right?
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post #821 of 3152 Old 02-02-2016, 07:21 PM
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thanks. that would depend on having a 7.2 or 9.2 receiver right? The ones I'm looking at are only 7.2 so that would limit me to a 5.1.2 atmos setup right?
Yes it would. You would need at least 9 channels to have 4 ceiling speakers. At least with most AVRs
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post #822 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 03:38 PM
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I need some help here. After reading through the entire thread, I decided to run a quick test using a bookshelf speaker angled upwards and the set-up test tone. Note, I do not yet have an Atmos capable AVR.

I set the speaker on top of my rear surrounds, which are about 4 feet off the ground. My ceiling is about 8ft high, and has a hard popcorn texture unfortunately. Anyways, the test tone definitely sounded much higher in the space than my regular surrounds, but at no point did it ever sound like it was coming from the ceiling above me.

This leads to my questions:
1) I know there are a lot of variables concerning not having the Atmos AVR and speakers, but I believe I should've gotten some tiny amount of ceiling bounce effect, no? Would that absolutely require an Atmos capable receiver and/or Atmos speaker? Like I said, it definitely expanded the soundstage higher, but definitely not overhead on the ceiling.

2) I did this test to see if my room was capable before I actually spend the cash to purchase a new AVR/speakers. If a successful test can be carried out with normal AVR/speakers, then the fact that this test failed doesn't bode well for me. I guess that would mean that my room isn't right for Atmos? (and I cannot install actual ceiling speakers)

3) Would an Atmos receiver make any difference in sound quality if still hooked up to a 5.1 setup? Or would that just be a waste?

4) Would it be worth it to get an Atmos AVR and set up those bookshelves on top of my surrounds as Rear Height channels? I might be able to position them slightly higher on the wall. If this could work, would it make more sense to point them upwards or at some other angle?

I think that's it for now. I really want to splurge on a new AVR but if it won't make any real difference in my setup, then I guess it would just be waste of money. I really need some advice! Thanks.
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post #823 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobinson84 View Post
I need some help here. After reading through the entire thread, I decided to run a quick test using a bookshelf speaker angled upwards and the set-up test tone. Note, I do not yet have an Atmos capable AVR.

I set the speaker on top of my rear surrounds, which are about 4 feet off the ground. My ceiling is about 8ft high, and has a hard popcorn texture unfortunately. Anyways, the test tone definitely sounded much higher in the space than my regular surrounds, but at no point did it ever sound like it was coming from the ceiling above me.

This leads to my questions:
1) I know there are a lot of variables concerning not having the Atmos AVR and speakers, but I believe I should've gotten some tiny amount of ceiling bounce effect, no? Would that absolutely require an Atmos capable receiver and/or Atmos speaker? Like I said, it definitely expanded the soundstage higher, but definitely not overhead on the ceiling.

2) I did this test to see if my room was capable before I actually spend the cash to purchase a new AVR/speakers. If a successful test can be carried out with normal AVR/speakers, then the fact that this test failed doesn't bode well for me. I guess that would mean that my room isn't right for Atmos? (and I cannot install actual ceiling speakers)

3) Would an Atmos receiver make any difference in sound quality if still hooked up to a 5.1 setup? Or would that just be a waste?

4) Would it be worth it to get an Atmos AVR and set up those bookshelves on top of my surrounds as Rear Height channels? I might be able to position them slightly higher on the wall. If this could work, would it make more sense to point them upwards or at some other angle?

I think that's it for now. I really want to splurge on a new AVR but if it won't make any real difference in my setup, then I guess it would just be waste of money. I really need some advice! Thanks.
Testing for ceiling bounce can be tricky. Using regular bookshelf speakers can be hit-n-miss I think. Try using different audio material aside from just a test tone. Try different types of sound effects and other stuff you could find on YouTube. I've found that some audio recordings don't carryover well to ceiling bounce while others do.

Getting the right effect for Atmos bounce requires lots of tuning of the speaker angle in relation to your MLP, the speakers diffusion properties and crossover settings (EQ) to a lesser degree. If your ceiling material is dampening the bounce then it may never work regardless of speaker or AVR.

An Atmos enabled AVR will be needed to decode the Atmos data from related media. It will provide you with the intended end-result from the bounce effect but does not change the physics of sound. If you can't bounce your sound now, an Atmos AVR won't magically make it bounce later.

I use non-Atmos branded speakers (Focal Little Birds) for Atmos up-firing and it took me a few days of fiddling with speaker angles and AVR settings till I got a good effect. Having a hard, flat, smooth 8ft ceiling helped my situation.
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post #824 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 04:53 PM
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Testing for ceiling bounce can be tricky. Using regular bookshelf speakers can be hit-n-miss I think. Try using different audio material aside from just a test tone. Try different types of sound effects and other stuff you could find on YouTube. I've found that some audio recordings don't carryover well to ceiling bounce while others do.

Getting the right effect for Atmos bounce requires lots of tuning of the speaker angle in relation to your MLP, the speakers diffusion properties and crossover settings (EQ) to a lesser degree. If your ceiling material is dampening the bounce then it may never work regardless of speaker or AVR.

An Atmos enabled AVR will be needed to decode the Atmos data from related media. It will provide you with the intended end-result from the bounce effect but does not change the physics of sound. If you can't bounce your sound now, an Atmos AVR won't magically make it bounce later.

I use non-Atmos branded speakers (Focal Little Birds) for Atmos up-firing and it took me a few days of fiddling with speaker angles and AVR settings till I got a good effect. Having a hard, flat, smooth 8ft ceiling helped my situation.
Thanks very much for your reply. You've answered a lot of questions for me. I'll try again tonight using different types of sounds and effects. Is there any kind in particular you would suggest as a good test?
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post #825 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:06 PM
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Thanks very much for your reply. You've answered a lot of questions for me. I'll try again tonight using different types of sounds and effects. Is there any kind in particular you would suggest as a good test?
I couldn't tell you which particular ones sounded good since I played so many. Go to YouTube and play things like thunderstorms and rain, helicopters, rock slides, building collapses, explosions, gunfire, sirens, breaking glass, birds, racing cars or bikes things you would expect out of an effects speaker. Try various examples of each because some will sound better than others.

You mentioned that your popcorn ceiling was hard. Can you easily pickoff pieces of the popcorn with your fingers? Does it feel soft or smooshy?
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post #826 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:09 PM
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I couldn't tell you which particular ones sounded good since I played so many. Go to YouTube and play things like thunderstorms and rain, helicopters, rock slides, building collapses, explosions, gunfire, sirens, breaking glass, birds, racing cars or bikes things you would expect out of an effects speaker. Try various examples of each because some will sound better than others.

You mentioned that your popcorn ceiling was hard. Can you easily pickoff pieces of the popcorn with your fingers? Does it feel soft or smooshy?
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check them out.

You can pick off pieces of the popcorn but it's definitely a lot harder than normal popcorn. I've had the soft smushy kind before and this is not it.
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post #827 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:25 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check them out.

You can pick off pieces of the popcorn but it's definitely a lot harder than normal popcorn. I've had the soft smushy kind before and this is not it.
That could be a good sign.

One thing you consider is that popcorn ceilings are supposed to disperse sound more than smooth ceilings so you may not experience pinpoint localization which could be a good thing.

I rarely get pinpoint sound, but I definitely do get the sense of the overhead sounds. The effect works really well when played from Atmos tracks. Some Atmos effects are intended as ambiance.
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post #828 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:41 PM
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That could be a good sign.

One thing you consider is that popcorn ceilings are supposed to disperse sound more than smooth ceilings so you may not experience pinpoint localization which could be a good thing.

I rarely get pinpoint sound, but I definitely do get the sense of the overhead sounds. The effect works really well when played from Atmos tracks. Some Atmos effects are intended as ambiance.

Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tonight's tests.


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post #829 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:44 PM
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Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tonight's tests.


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BTW, what bookshelf speakers are you testing with?
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post #830 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 06:56 PM
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BTW, what bookshelf speakers are you testing with?

A spare pair of Andrew Jones pioneer bookshelves. All my speakers are the same.


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post #831 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 07:11 PM
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A spare pair of Andrew Jones pioneer bookshelves. All my speakers are the same.


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I wonder if those large speakers have a lot of spread.
Angle them around 20°. If you can set the crossover try setting the low limit at 120Hz. That might help with imaging.
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post #832 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 07:23 PM
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I wonder if those large speakers have a lot of spread.

Angle them around 20°. If you can set the crossover try setting the low limit at 120Hz. That might help with imaging.

Will do. Thank you!


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post #833 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 07:58 PM
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Will do. Thank you!


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Also tryout setting them horizontally as well.
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post #834 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 08:15 PM
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Ok so I just tried it set horizontally on top on my surround and set it to 20 degrees. I found a thunderstorm clip on YouTube. The ambiance is the room is definitely more substantial. I tried it in all sorts of positions and angles, but horizontal at 20 degrees sounds best.

Now it still doesn't sound like it's coming from above me, but that could be due to two reasons: 1) I'm not listening to an actual Atmos or dsu track, and 2) because of set up limitations I can only test one side at a time.

When i unplugged the speaker, there was a definite difference in the ambiance. The sound became flatter. I can imagine that with speakers on both sides going, it would sound even better.

All in all, I'm very encouraged. I'm going to try some more sound effects.


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post #835 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 08:47 PM
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Ok I'm sold. I didn't hear any actual overhead effects but the difference in overall ambiance was palpable. The sound filled the fill room even though it was just one surround side. The atmosphere was thick...I guess that's why they call it Atmos.

So now I'm definitely going to be picking up a new avr. But I'm wondering if I just keep using these bookshelves or should I get the matching Andrew Jones Dolby add-ons. The add-ons would definitely look nicer.


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post #836 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 09:00 PM
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Ok I'm sold. I didn't hear any actual overhead effects but the difference in overall ambiance was palpable. The sound filled the fill room even though it was just one surround side. The atmosphere was thick...I guess that's why they call it Atmos.

So now I'm definitely going to be picking up a new avr. But I'm wondering if I just keep using these bookshelves or should I get the matching Andrew Jones Dolby add-ons. The add-ons would definitely look nicer.


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I think the addons would be a good direction to try. They would be a good fit for sitting on top of you pioneer speakers since I think those bookshelves your using are a bit large and unsightly for the task. Or you could continue what you've been trying out some more with an Atmos AVR.

Are you going to do rear or front Atmos?

I will say that Atmos is definitely a step up from regular surround when setup and working properly. I only have fronts but in the future I'd like to go with added rears too.
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post #837 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 09:27 PM
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I'm going to go with rear. I don't think my room layout is good for fronts.


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post #838 of 3152 Old 02-03-2016, 11:33 PM
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I'm going to go with rear. I don't think my room layout is good for fronts.


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Yes...place the AE spk modules at the rear of side surround will yield very good results.

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post #839 of 3152 Old 02-04-2016, 12:46 PM
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I'm in desperate need of finding two additional channels for my front staging to enable ATMOS and DTS:X, but I can't figure out what to get

I currently have a set of B7W nautilus 802D's, so stacking something on top the mains is out. I need something I can hang from the front walls. Any recommendations are appreciated!
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post #840 of 3152 Old 02-06-2016, 05:08 AM
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I'm in desperate need of finding two additional channels for my front staging to enable ATMOS and DTS:X, but I can't figure out what to get

I currently have a set of B7W nautilus 802D's, so stacking something on top the mains is out. I need something I can hang from the front walls. Any recommendations are appreciated!
I got the focal little birds which come with 2 pedestool stands which can be used for mounting and have a good adjustment for angles. However if placing on speakers or a flat surface the tulip one falls over easily at 25 degrees or so.



That being said, check out accessories 4 less as they had a special for buy one get one half off. 300 for all 4 shipped is what I paid. Had to place 2 separate orders though. The onkyo ones were the same price per pair every where but only one 4 inch driver vs a 2 way with a4 inch driver. The little bird drivers are also slightly recessed in the housing which should help with leakage to some degree (pun intended)
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