Dolby Atmos upward-firing module speakers - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2851 of 3179 Old 04-30-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Yep, math is actually useful. Just wanted to clarify when angling atmos modules you can't do it too much as you want to avoid getting too much direct radiated sound from the speaker. I sit 16ft away so if I angled mine enough to actually bounce to MLP the angle would be too great so have to compromise and have bounce in front of me. That being said dispersion is much greater with bouncing than direct radiating so there is more leeway.
Right! I cannot angle them too much or I will get the sound directly..but I can guess that sitting on top of the Paradigm Monitors 7 the sound bounces ( I hope!) on the ceiling and it bounces way ahead of my sitting position- but you seem to have found a good compromise..did you raise the db levels of the front dolby? I guess the perfect solution would be in ceiling speakers almost on top of the MLP...
I will continue my testing....
thanks so much!
E

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post #2852 of 3179 Old 04-30-2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
Right! I cannot angle them too much or I will get the sound directly..but I can guess that sitting on top of the Paradigm Monitors 7 the sound bounces ( I hope!) on the ceiling and it bounces way ahead of my sitting position- but you seem to have found a good compromise..did you raise the db levels of the front dolby? I guess the perfect solution would be in ceiling speakers almost on top of the MLP...
I will continue my testing....
thanks so much!
E
I raised mine 5db. Overall the bouncers are a compromise but still can work well in certain rooms. I like the presence it adds even if I don't always get great overhead effects.

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post #2853 of 3179 Old 04-30-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
There are 2 distances to set in the AVR. The regular speaker distance that is grouped with all the other speakers and the distance to ceiling. The former should be the total distance traveled, speaker to ceiling and back to MLP. Usually for me Audy gets this wrong and measures direct distance as any other speaker so you'll have to fix it. The latter distance is just speaker to where it would bounce on ceiling. That can't be measured by AVR and you just have change the default to whatever you measure.
geat advice...Audyssey is great but not when it comes to Atmos speakers...I know how to calculate the distance from the speaker to where it bounces on the ceiling...check...
but the other one is not clear...so I should measure the distance between the atmos speaker to the ceiling PLUS from the ceiling to the MLP and the total should be the distance to enter in the regular menu where all the distances are? This distance would be greater than just measuring from the atmos to the MLP...this could explain why the Atmos levels are a bit low...not many people in AVS forums have mentioned this...I read something along this but it didn't register..ok..i will try this too...maybe there is hope for my Home Cinema!
thanks so much!
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post #2854 of 3179 Old 04-30-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
so I should measure the distance between the atmos speaker to the ceiling PLUS from the ceiling to the MLP and the total should be the distance to enter in the regular menu where all the distances are? This distance would be greater than just measuring from the atmos to the MLP
Yes. It will be longer. It doesn't affect levels, just timing. Mine is only longer by 1 ft (which is 1 ms) so for me it doesn't make much difference that I can tell but might as well do it right.

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post #2855 of 3179 Old 04-30-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by joe221 View Post
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Originally Posted by sschen View Post
Does anyone have any suggestion on a reasonable pair of ATMOS speakers that will sit on top of a pair of Paradigm Studio 100 V5 floorstanders. Unfortunately the top of these speakers are not flat entirely. I have attached a couple of photos.


I can’t tell if the wood area is flat. It looks like the Onkyo’s will fit pretty well behind the tweeter horn. I used a cell phone sticky pad to keep them in place. It the wood is curved then a mount as mentioned above will be needed.
I placed mine towards the rear edge to cleanly guide the wires.
I would find foam that you can hallow out where the hump is. After you have the foam laying flat, then place your speaker ontop of the foam.

Hopefully you can foam that is the same color or close to the color of your speaker.

Hope this gives you an idea.

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post #2856 of 3179 Old 05-02-2018, 03:07 PM
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Hi guys, I’m installing my first ever HT and I think I made a mistake. I was looking to set up a 5.1.4 Atmos with pioneer bs22a’s as surrounds. I have an 8’ high flat ceiling and planned to mount these speakers to the rear wall. I placed the mount just 3’ under the ceiling (the speakers are kind of tall, putting them at like 2’ under the ceiling). I’m assuming that’s too high right? I planned on tilting these forward but would that help with the Atmos? Any suggestions appreciated!

Really wishing I read the Dolby Atmos installation guide more carefully before I cut out holes in the wall for speaker wire/mount right about now
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post #2857 of 3179 Old 05-02-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by XDark_FenixX View Post
Hi guys, I’m installing my first ever HT and I think I made a mistake. I was looking to set up a 5.1.4 Atmos with pioneer bs22a’s as surrounds. I have an 8’ high flat ceiling and planned to mount these speakers to the rear wall. I placed the mount just 3’ under the ceiling (the speakers are kind of tall, putting them at like 2’ under the ceiling). I’m assuming that’s too high right? I planned on tilting these forward but would that help with the Atmos? Any suggestions appreciated!

Really wishing I read the Dolby Atmos installation guide more carefully before I cut out holes in the wall for speaker wire/mount right about now
Are you using the BS22's as back surround speaker (part of the 5.x.x) and have different ceiling speakers for the x.x.4. The latter would be your Atmos speakers. If the BS22's are really the back surround then that position may not be perfect but might work depending on how far away they are from the main listening position.

Drywall can easily be repaired so if you need to lower the mounnt just do it and patch the previous holes.
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post #2858 of 3179 Old 05-03-2018, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BPlayer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XDark_FenixX View Post
Hi guys, I’m installing my first ever HT and I think I made a mistake. I was looking to set up a 5.1.4 Atmos with pioneer bs22a’s as surrounds. I have an 8’ high flat ceiling and planned to mount these speakers to the rear wall. I placed the mount just 3’ under the ceiling (the speakers are kind of tall, putting them at like 2’ under the ceiling). I’m assuming that’s too high right? I planned on tilting these forward but would that help with the Atmos? Any suggestions appreciated!

Really wishing I read the Dolby Atmos installation guide more carefully before I cut out holes in the wall for speaker wire/mount right about now
Are you using the BS22's as back surround speaker (part of the 5.x.x) and have different ceiling speakers for the x.x.4. The latter would be your Atmos speakers. If the BS22's are really the back surround then that position may not be perfect but might work depending on how far away they are from the main listening position.

Drywall can easily be repaired so if you need to lower the mounnt just do it and patch the previous holes.
They are the Atmos version so they have the up-firing speakers on the top. I don’t think the positioning is super ideal but probably ok. They are about 90-100degrees from the Floorstanding fronts, about 2 feet behind the couch.

I’m thinking I might just do a speaker plate where the hole is now and wire down but that might look dumb. I don’t have the original matching paint for the living room which is what sucks
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post #2859 of 3179 Old 05-03-2018, 09:00 PM
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Yes. It will be longer. It doesn't affect levels, just timing. Mine is only longer by 1 ft (which is 1 ms) so for me it doesn't make much difference that I can tell but might as well do it right.
hello again...well...I tested the Klipsch atmos speakers-adjusted distances, levels etc and the whole set up sounded ok...can't say that it sounded any better than when I had a pair of bookshelf speakers configured as front height speakers...Since I sit 12 feet from the TV and the ceilings are 9 feet high (flat ceiling and smooth) I was hoping the bouncing effect could be more noticeable. I'm not sure I can say I heard a big improvement over the front height arrangement. I want the Klipsch to work in my living room! They look really nice sitting on top of my L & R Paradigm speakers. I will unplug them and reconnect my Paradigm Atoms as front height and take a listen. Maybe I'm one of those people who can't hear "atmos" speakers! I wish I could install in ceiling speakers! I think those would work the best but nope.

I will decide soon whether to keep them or not..perhaps if I sat closer to the TV I would get more of the effect...dunno..the system sounds fuller whether with the atmos or the height speakers.
thanks for the tips!

E

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post #2860 of 3179 Old 05-04-2018, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
I will decide soon whether to keep them or not..perhaps if I sat closer to the TV I would get more of the effect...dunno..the system sounds fuller whether with the atmos or the height speakers.
thanks for the tips!




Try to reposition your MLP to no less than 6’ from each of the Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers (DAES.) The more you increase the MLP distance over 6’ from the DAES the effect lessons.


Place the DAES no higher than 1/2 height of the room.


Good luck.

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post #2861 of 3179 Old 05-10-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Clovis559 View Post
Oh, I dunno. That was my first post and when I tried, it told me 5 posts. And wouldn't put it in my preview. Either way I can post now.

I made this because I have RP-140SA, and I wanted to compare reflection to... well... near ceiling I guess. They're ugly and not done, I made a pair in a day, and I hope to finish them this Saturday (Cut off excess wood, paint black, route cable through pipe, possibly add accent lighting behind speaker). With that speaker you can play around with a lot.
The stand was very basic to make, and then you won't have to cut holes in your ceiling.

can these upfiring speakers be used as height speakers with Atmos for sure? I have the ELAC A4 and thinking the same but everywhere I read that they are meant to be placed ONLY on top of speakers and bouncing on ceiling...did you select the Klipsch as Front Height in your receiver...? did you get better sound? better Atmos? Similar to what SVS prime elevation can do?
thanks
E

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post #2862 of 3179 Old 05-10-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
can these upfiring speakers be used as height speakers with Atmos for sure? I have the ELAC A4 and thinking the same but everywhere I read that they are meant to be placed ONLY on top of speakers and bouncing on ceiling...did you select the Klipsch as Front Height in your receiver...? did you get better sound? better Atmos? Similar to what SVS prime elevation can do?
thanks
E
Klipsch specifically designed them to also be used as wall mounted speakers. They have a keyhole mount for that purpose. You can look at their product info. Here are my rear heights. You do have to designate them as heights rather than Dolby speakers in AVR.
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post #2863 of 3179 Old 05-10-2018, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Klipsch specifically designed them to also be used as wall mounted speakers. They have a keyhole mount for that purpose. You can look at their product info. Here are my rear heights. You do have to designate them as heights rather than Dolby speakers in AVR.
thanks...those Klipsch look awesome on the walls! yep...do they sound better as Height speakers? I have a pair of ELAC Debut A4 speakers and I'm considering mounting then on the side wall-almost at the back but perhaps the ELAC are really meant to be used ONLY as Atmos modules...I just don't want to spend money on a pair of SVS elevation. did you also change the crossover freq on the Klipsch. The recommended one is 150-200 HZ for atmos speakers..

anyway...thanks for sharing the info...the pic looks great!
E

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post #2864 of 3179 Old 05-11-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
thanks...those Klipsch look awesome on the walls! yep...do they sound better as Height speakers? I have a pair of ELAC Debut A4 speakers and I'm considering mounting then on the side wall-almost at the back but perhaps the ELAC are really meant to be used ONLY as Atmos modules...I just don't want to spend money on a pair of SVS elevation. did you also change the crossover freq on the Klipsch. The recommended one is 150-200 HZ for atmos speakers..

anyway...thanks for sharing the info...the pic looks great!
E
I don't see anything about the Elac being wall mountable. Is there any mounting hardware on the back? I would think they would still be good enough to use sound wise if you could mount them as heights. If the angle is sufficient then direct radiating should be better than up-firing. I use the same 150hz crossover for my front RP-140sa used as upfiring and the rear RP-140sa used at heights. Elac lists a low end FR of 180Hz on the A4 so you'll probably want to use a crossover of 200Hz no matter how you are using it.

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post #2865 of 3179 Old 05-11-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I don't see anything about the Elac being wall mountable. Is there any mounting hardware on the back? I would think they would still be good enough to use sound wise if you could mount them as heights. If the angle is sufficient then direct radiating should be better than up-firing. I use the same 150hz crossover for my front RP-140sa used as upfiring and the rear RP-140sa used at heights. Elac lists a low end FR of 180Hz on the A4 so you'll probably want to use a crossover of 200Hz no matter how you are using it.
I watched a few videos on line re: using dedicated atmos up firing speakers as regular height speakers (mostly the Klipsch vs SVS prime elevation)- the SVS are full range speakers so crossover at 80hz...they seem to do a better job...hmmm..
In the name of experimentation, I think I will keep the ELAC sitting on top of the surround speakers and I will move the Front Height speakers I have currently to the side wall-as high as I can place them just ahead of the MLP and see if that gives me a better sense of overhead...I'm beginning to think that unless we all use a dedicated, sound-treated room for Home Theatre, well, there is only so much tweaking we can do!
If I do this, I guess I may not be able to use DTS-X? I thought that only FH/RH are "compatible" with both atmos and DTS-X? anyway...I'm moving away form the topic of upfiring modules here..
I do feel that the current upfiring ELAC at the back create a good sense of enveloping-they are very close to my sitting position...when I had the klipsch at the front I did hear them but sitting 12 feet away from the front maybe was too much for the sound to be effective.
thanks

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post #2866 of 3179 Old 05-11-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elfeoblu View Post
...I'm beginning to think that unless we all use a dedicated, sound-treated room for Home Theatre, well, there is only so much tweaking we can do!
That statement agrees with the consensus of opinion expressed in the Dolby Atmos thread.

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If I do this, I guess I may not be able to use DTS-X? I thought that only FH/RH are "compatible" with both atmos and DTS-X?
This may be a feature or limitation with your AVR (as it is with my Sony). The solution is to reconfigure the speaker specifications to match your most frequently used audio stream.
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post #2867 of 3179 Old 05-14-2018, 09:12 AM
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Hey guys, I need an opinion,

I want to upgrade my atmos onkyo boxes (Onkyo SKH-410-B) for the new Elac A4.2 https://www.elac.com/product/a4-2/

But I am considering the Magnat Atmos Shadow 102 https://www.magnat.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/2999108

They cost pretty much the same (in Europe)

Anybody has a opinion about any of them?

Thanks
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post #2868 of 3179 Old 05-15-2018, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by silver-eye View Post
Hey guys, I need an opinion,

I want to upgrade my atmos onkyo boxes (Onkyo SKH-410-B) for the new Elac A4.2 https://www.elac.com/product/a4-2/

But I am considering the Magnat Atmos Shadow 102 https://www.magnat.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/2999108

They cost pretty much the same (in Europe)

Anybody has a opinion about any of them?

Thanks
I would expect the performance to be similar, and both are designed to be placed on the top of a speaker. The physical dimensions are a bit different so you decision might be based on what will fit best with your existing speakers and the actual look of the box.
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post #2869 of 3179 Old 05-15-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by silver-eye View Post
Hey guys, I need an opinion,

I want to upgrade my atmos onkyo boxes (Onkyo SKH-410-B) for the new Elac A4.2 https://www.elac.com/product/a4-2/

But I am considering the Magnat Atmos Shadow 102 https://www.magnat.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/2999108

They cost pretty much the same (in Europe)

Anybody has a opinion about any of them?

Thanks

Just like BPlayer, it will not change whatever speaker (brand) you will use as bouncers.
Tried many different brands, no differents.
Only differents you will "hear" is when you start to use Direct Fire Height speakers.
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post #2870 of 3179 Old 05-16-2018, 11:19 AM
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I'm looking at the Klipsch RP-140 Dolby speakers to replace an old pair of Polk TL 1900 satellite speakers I'm currently using as front heights.

The only problem I can see is that my front speakers are Heresy IIIs which are tilted back by about 20º already.

So placing the DAE speakers on the top of the already tilted HIIIs could present reflection issues - would there be a workaround for this (like a shim) or is the additional tilt not really anything to worry about?
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post #2871 of 3179 Old 05-16-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JFHSQT View Post
I'm looking at the Klipsch RP-140 Dolby speakers to replace an old pair of Polk TL 1900 satellite speakers I'm currently using as front heights.

The only problem I can see is that my front speakers are Heresy IIIs which are tilted back by about 20º already.

So placing the DAE speakers on the top of the already tilted HIIIs could present reflection issues - would there be a workaround for this (like a shim) or is the additional tilt not really anything to worry about?
You can fix the slant and isolate the atmos modules with something like..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A1M0GZGHL8F7T8
JFHSQT likes this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln2iiTENgaw

"Life's tragedy is that we get old too soon and wise too late."

Last edited by CRITICALSHOT; 05-16-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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post #2872 of 3179 Old 05-16-2018, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFHSQT View Post
I'm looking at the Klipsch RP-140 Dolby speakers to replace an old pair of Polk TL 1900 satellite speakers I'm currently using as front heights.

The only problem I can see is that my front speakers are Heresy IIIs which are tilted back by about 20º already.

So placing the DAE speakers on the top of the already tilted HIIIs could present reflection issues - would there be a workaround for this (like a shim) or is the additional tilt not really anything to worry about?
It would be even better if the 140's could be mounted high on the wall. They have the cutout to allow this.
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post #2873 of 3179 Old 05-16-2018, 09:08 PM
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I finally pulled the trigger on the Klipsch RP-140SA from Amazon US yesterday, when it dropped to US$399 before shipping a few days ago. I know this is very standard pricing for you guys in US, but is a great price for us Aussies when our retailers here are selling this for more than A$1000!

For ease of installation to start with, I will be putting this on top of my Paradigm Studio 100 V5 as per this post.

Since the Klipsch RP-140SA can also be wall mounted, is it better to have it front wall mounted or rear side wall mounted on a 5.1.2 setup, if I am not getting satisfactory results with it sitting on top of my floorstanding speakers?
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post #2874 of 3179 Old 05-16-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sschen View Post
I finally pulled the trigger on the Klipsch RP-140SA from Amazon US yesterday, when it dropped to US$399 before shipping a few days ago. I know this is very standard pricing for you guys in US, but is a great price for us Aussies when our retailers here are selling this for more than A$1000!

For ease of installation to start with, I will be putting this on top of my Paradigm Studio 100 V5 as per this post.

Since the Klipsch RP-140SA can also be wall mounted, is it better to have it front wall mounted or rear side wall mounted on a 5.1.2 setup, if I am not getting satisfactory results with it sitting on top of my floorstanding speakers?
Wall mounted is always better than reflecting. It should not make much difference between front wall or rear side wall. Suggest you hop over to https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...r-version.html and review the link on the first page. There is a Dolby recommendation on speaker placement.
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post #2875 of 3179 Old 05-17-2018, 08:57 AM
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i use 5.1.4 pioneer elite upfiring. my receiver allows them to be configured as height speakers or upfiring.



oddly enough; they sounded better as height speakers than upfiring. lol. i have a denon x4300h.
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post #2876 of 3179 Old 05-17-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BPlayer View Post
It would be even better if the 140's could be mounted high on the wall. They have the cutout to allow this.
I can replace the Polks with the 140s high above my big window (behind my TV) but my hope was that using them as Dolby Enabled Atmos I would get more benefit from the reflections off the ceiling (more dimensional and immersive sound) than as front heights, which tend to just expand the front soundstage to a higher level.
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post #2877 of 3179 Old 05-17-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JFHSQT View Post
I can replace the Polks with the 140s high above my big window (behind my TV) but my hope was that using them as Dolby Enabled Atmos I would get more benefit from the reflections off the ceiling (more dimensional and immersive sound) than as front heights, which tend to just expand the front soundstage to a higher level.
There are likely different configurations with your AVR to match the speaker placement. The terminology may be different between AVR's.
- if they are placed in upfiring position the config may be called Front Dolby or Dolby Enabled
- if they are mounted high on the front wall the config may be called Front Height



The AVR will use the config to direct the Atmos channels appropriately. Front heights produce a better soundstage than reflected sound.
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post #2878 of 3179 Old 05-18-2018, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPlayer View Post
There are likely different configurations with your AVR to match the speaker placement. The terminology may be different between AVR's.
- if they are placed in upfiring position the config may be called Front Dolby or Dolby Enabled
- if they are mounted high on the front wall the config may be called Front Height



The AVR will use the config to direct the Atmos channels appropriately. Front heights produce a better soundstage than reflected sound.
Great - I have an Anthem MXR 720, so I have the current Polk TL satellites above my window (propped on curtain rod, they're tiny) and set as front heights (I think Anthem calls them "on-wall" heights as opposed to "in ceiling" heights or Dolby Atmos (reflective speakers like the RP-140s).

So I think my plan is to get the Klipsch RP 140s and leave them set as front heights in the Anthem and install them where the Polks are currently. I'm not really impressed with the overhead/height effects of the Polks but they are tiny little satellite speakers (I have them at +5 dB over where ARC set them). Hopefully the RP140s, being much better speakers, will improve the immersion coming from the front height config.

I am also picking up some Imagine XAs to set on my rear surround RP-150s to get the rear height/reflective immersion for basically a 5.1.4 Atmos setup. Using rear heights is not an option so I have to go with the DAE in the rears and I think the XAs will be a better fit on my smaller RP-150s.

I'm hopeful that this configuration will get me at least 90% of the way toward what I'd be experiencing if I had 5.1.4 with in-ceiling Atmos - any reason to worry about this setup?

EDIT: Regarding the MRX 720, I'll be using the rear height pre-outs to go into an Adcom stereo amp to power the Imagine XAs, but I'm assuming the MRX will still be able to process 5.1.4 even if it lacks the amps for that final rear DAE config.

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post #2879 of 3179 Old 05-18-2018, 07:20 AM
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^ Sounds like a good plan, and it should deliver what you are hoping for.
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post #2880 of 3179 Old 05-18-2018, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFHSQT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPlayer View Post
There are likely different configurations with your AVR to match the speaker placement. The terminology may be different between AVR's.
- if they are placed in upfiring position the config may be called Front Dolby or Dolby Enabled
- if they are mounted high on the front wall the config may be called Front Height



The AVR will use the config to direct the Atmos channels appropriately. Front heights produce a better soundstage than reflected sound.
Great - I have an Anthem MXR 720, so I have the current Polk TL satellites above my window (propped on curtain rod, they're tiny) and set as front heights (I think Anthem calls them "on-wall" heights as opposed to "in ceiling" heights or Dolby Atmos (reflective speakers like the RP-140s).

So I think my plan is to get the Klipsch RP 140s and leave them set as front heights in the Anthem and install them where the Polks are currently. I'm not really impressed with the overhead/height effects of the Polks but they are tiny little satellite speakers (I have them at +5 dB over where ARC set them). Hopefully the RP140s, being much better speakers, will improve the immersion coming from the front height config.

I am also picking up some Imagine XAs to set on my rear surround RP-150s to get the rear height/reflective immersion for basically a 5.1.4 Atmos setup. Using rear heights is not an option so I have to go with the DAE in the rears and I think the XAs will be a better fit on my smaller RP-150s.

I'm hopeful that this configuration will get me at least 90% of the way toward what I'd be experiencing if I had 5.1.4 with in-ceiling Atmos - any reason to worry about this setup?

EDIT: Regarding the MRX 720, I'll be using the rear height pre-outs to go into an Adcom stereo amp to power the Imagine XAs, but I'm assuming the MRX will still be able to process 5.1.4 even if it lacks the amps for that final rear DAE config.
If you don’t like your RP 140’s you may want to purchase the SVS Prime Elevation Satellite speakers.

I’ve heard nothing but great reviews on these speakers. I’m not sure if they have the 45 day trail period, as they do for there subwoofers.

For myself, I have 4 of the KEF R50 Atmos speakers for my Anthem MRX 1120 7.1.4 Atmos system, which sounds great.

I’m going to watch the newly released Saving Ryan 4K with Dolby Atoms over the weekend, which should sound fabulous.

Good luck and enjoy your system.

Randy
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