New SVS Prime series speakers - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 1195 Old 07-30-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
On the Ultra CC SVS said, IIRC, 20 to 40 hours... I image it would be similar on the Prime.

That said, since it sounds good on some material, it probably is source related.
Thanks very much for your reply Matt...
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post #902 of 1195 Old 07-30-2016, 11:46 AM
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I'm guessing that the highly detailed and transparent nature of the primes (tweeter and overall sound signature) just shows what is in the source to begin with.

And since it happens when the character is yelling or speaking less than clearly, the primes are likely just relaying that.

A less detailed speaker might smooth over some of the finest details, possibly making lesser content sound better but at the expense of making high quality content sound less detailed and transparent.

This did also happen sometimes with my Sony Core speakers, but the primes sound a lot better overall.
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post #903 of 1195 Old 07-30-2016, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm guessing that the highly detailed and transparent nature of the primes (tweeter and overall sound signature) just shows what is in the source to begin with.

And since it happens when the character is yelling or speaking less than clearly, the primes are likely just relaying that.

A less detailed speaker might smooth over some of the finest details, possibly making lesser content sound better but at the expense of making high quality content sound less detailed and transparent.

This did also happen sometimes with my Sony Core speakers, but the primes sound a lot better overall.
Very well explained Plasma!!! That definitely makes a lot of sense & thank you for your replies as well!!!!! When I was taking REW measurements I didn't notice any "spikes" or peaks in the treble range of frequencies so that is when I started thinking it was source based. My room is not at all acoustically treated but I think I have a decent amount of absorptive material with my furnishings as not to overly exaggerate any of the high frequencies.

Thank you all again for your informative replies!!!
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post #904 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 06:21 AM
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Garbage in, garbage out.

This is the usual experience with "neutral" and "flat" sounding speakers (or even headphones for that matter). I've had the Prime sats, prime center and now ultra center, each of them exhibits the same thing; if you feed it rubbish, it'll easily represent you with the garbage within the source.

That said, there are things that just sound "bright" to begin with. It's not unusal for the prime center to sound bright then.

An experience I wish to share; I recently watched Ip Man 3 on Blu-ray, the final fight scene where it involves butterfly knifes going against each other is one of the toughest test for tweeters in recent years. The tweeter on my ultra center (which is the same as the prime center, just a little more refined) displayed the type of treble that cuts and pierces through my ears. It's definitely bright alright, but the amount of detail it presented is exactly how it MUST sound if butterfly knifes were to parry against each other (I've had first hand experience with it in real life, so I know).

So yeah, it's in the source and it's one of the reasons why I adore SVS speakers so much. They're just so transparent and accurate, something many of its similarly priced competitors tend to differ from.

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post #905 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
...it's one of the reasons why I adore SVS speakers so much. They're just so transparent and accurate, something many of its similarly priced competitors tend to differ from.
I believe this is why I find listening to music is so addicting with the primes. They can truly make the better quality stuff shine.

And I'm glad you pointed out that any neutral sounding speaker will behave like this and that bright content will sound bright because some unfamiliar with the primes might think that there is something wrong with them if they listen to lesser quality content or very bright content.
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post #906 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 08:25 AM
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Yeah, people feel that because the Primes/Ultra are so neutral sounding, they sound "dull", lack of "emotion" and just boring to listen to.

I came from the headphones world, so I know every bit about the sound-whoring and audiophilia that goes on in that camp. In general, people just like something that is tilted towards a spectrum or one another. The amount of people that prefers something just flat is minute compared to people who are bassheads or detail whoring mucks.

The same thing is happening in the speakers camp.

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post #907 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Yeah, people feel that because the Primes/Ultra are so neutral sounding, they sound "dull", lack of "emotion" and just boring to listen to.

I came from the headphones world, so I know every bit about the sound-whoring and audiophilia that goes on in that camp. In general, people just like something that is tilted towards a spectrum or one another. The amount of people that prefers something just flat is minute compared to people who are bassheads or detail whoring mucks.

The same thing is happening in the speakers camp.
Before buying these, I also demoed the Pioneer Elites, Klipsch Reference Premiere, B&W, and MLs.

The Pioneer Elites weren't too different, though not as neutral and balanced as the primes.

The Klipschs were very bright to the point of obvious harshness with music, etc. Those were compared with primes at Electronics Expo.

At BB, the B&W had some kind of 'sparkle' and 'warmth' that appeared to be subjectively pleasing colorations to the source, which was the Jurassic World movie. It wasn't as impressive with music though.

The MLs had more 'sparkle' or whatever with music and highs in general and I think the tweeter was the reason why (folded motion tweeter I think). They were lacking in the bass department with movies, though because of 4-inch mid-woofers. The B&Ws had more bass, with 5.25 inch mid-woofers. Of course, that extra 'sparkle' with the MLs could become harshness with certain content...

All in all, what I experienced in BB sounded subjectively pleasing with certain content they selected for demo purposes but coming from the video calibration world, where I know altering the picture subjectively to make one movie look better can easily make it worse with another movie or another aspect of picture quality, I realized the novelty of subjectively pleasing colorations to the sound would wear thin in the long run, especially with a wider variety of content than experienced in the brief demo.

BB also opted for a Marantz AVR for music and Denon for movies. Electronics Expo stuck with entry level Denons for all.
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post #908 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 08:54 AM
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And my first impression of the primes both in the store demo and at home, was 'dull' and 'generic' sounding. But I soon realized it's like getting used to a calibrated TV... it looks bland, even yellowish at first but once you get used to it, 'torch mode' will look horrible.
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post #909 of 1195 Old 07-31-2016, 08:58 AM
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So, my advice to anyone trying out the primes is to give them a good listen, especially music with female vocals and solid BD movies, for at least a few days if not a week or longer because they really grow on you.
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post #910 of 1195 Old 08-07-2016, 10:47 AM
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Hey all! I'm putting together a new ht setup for a moderately sized room with an open side to the left of the primary listening position and an open space behind where the farthest back speakers will reside. I'm looking to configure a 5.2.4 atmos setup and am strongly considering the Primes. Towers are out because my wife just won't get on board with towers ever again (ugg) so I'm thinking of trying all svs prime satellites plus the prime center with dual sb2000 subs. With the dual subs, I figure I will have no problem having the subs handle everything below 80 to 100 hz. From what I've been able to glean in my reading, it seems the prime satellites and center should have no problem producing a full sound stage with this kind of configuration. Anyone try a similar configuration yet? I'd love to hear thoughts. Thanks!

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post #911 of 1195 Old 08-07-2016, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Orrkis View Post
Hey all! I'm putting together a new ht setup for a moderately sized room with an open side to the left of the primary listening position and an open space behind where the farthest back speakers will reside. I'm looking to configure a 5.2.4 atmos setup and am strongly considering the Primes. Towers are out because my wife just won't get on board with towers ever again (ugg) so I'm thinking of trying all svs prime satellites plus the prime center with dual sb2000 subs. With the dual subs, I figure I will have no problem having the subs handle everything below 80 to 100 hz. From what I've been able to glean in my reading, it seems the prime satellites and center should have no problem producing a full sound stage with this kind of configuration. Anyone try a similar configuration yet? I'd love to hear thoughts. Thanks!

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If it was me, I'd use prime bookshelves for the front left and right, as they are quite important and will pair better with the prime center. The 4 heights can be satellites and for the (side) surrounds, prime bookshelves would be ideal but if budget and space limitations exist, the satellites should do fine.

As for subs, I think dual PB2000s would be better or even consider other brands like HSU Research or Rythmik. I think ported is better for HT use in general, but if space is an issue, sealed subs should be good too.
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post #912 of 1195 Old 08-07-2016, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
If it was me, I'd use prime bookshelves for the front left and right, as they are quite important and will pair better with the prime center. The 4 heights can be satellites and for the (side) surrounds, prime bookshelves would be ideal but if budget and space limitations exist, the satellites should do fine.

As for subs, I think dual PB2000s would be better or even consider other brands like HSU Research or Rythmik. I think ported is better for HT use in general, but if space is an issue, sealed subs should be good too.
Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated. Bookshelves are not out of the question budget wise, but for surrounds and height space and placement probably dictates use of the satellites.

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post #913 of 1195 Old 08-07-2016, 11:37 AM
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Well, using satellites for heights and surrounds should be fine, it's the mains and CC that matter most aside from subs.
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post #914 of 1195 Old 08-08-2016, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Orrkis View Post
Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated. Bookshelves are not out of the question budget wise, but for surrounds and height space and placement probably dictates use of the satellites.

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Heavily suggest to go for the Prime bookshelfs over the prime sats for front L/R duties. The prime sats do lose out on dynamic range as well as not being to hit those important bridge notes from 80-100hz as well as the prime bookshelfs.

My mistake was when I first had a full system of prime sats and replacing the center with the prime center, what I got was improved dialog clarity, a wider more cohesive soundstage and more bass (above the 80hz crossover). However the expense was that the prime center was always a little more overwhelming than the prime sats, eventhough I ran the L/R sats 2-3db hotter than the center. Switching to the prime bookshelfs just made everything blend better.

The prime sats do work well for height channels and surround duties though.
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post #915 of 1195 Old 08-08-2016, 06:46 AM
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Heavily suggest to go for the Prime bookshelfs over the prime sats for front L/R duties. The prime sats do lose out on dynamic range as well as not being to hit those important bridge notes from 80-100hz as well as the prime bookshelfs.

My mistake was when I first had a full system of prime sats and replacing the center with the prime center, what I got was improved dialog clarity, a wider more cohesive soundstage and more bass (above the 80hz crossover). However the expense was that the prime center was always a little more overwhelming than the prime sats, eventhough I ran the L/R sats 2-3db hotter than the center. Switching to the prime bookshelfs just made everything blend better.

The prime sats do work well for height channels and surround duties though.
Thanks! This more or less made my decision for me.

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post #916 of 1195 Old 08-09-2016, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Orrkis View Post
Thanks! This more or less made my decision for me.

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+1. Even with multiple SVS subs (I have a PB1000 and PC2000), there is a noticeable difference between the satellite and bookshelf on the front stage.

Edit: Also I have the piano gloss. They look fantastic, but (if you're looking for unsolicited advice) is such a pain in the ass to keep clean and streak free. If I had it to do over, I think I would go with the black ash. With my system (prime center, towers up front, bookshelves surround, and satellite height), I would have saved enough money to buy an additional PB1000.

Best way I've found to keep them clean is to dust them with a Swiffer OFTEN. Use a fresh, unused one every time.
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post #917 of 1195 Old 08-31-2016, 12:25 AM
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Hey guys.

I've read through the entire thread and haven't seem too many impressions from people who've demo-ed both the primes and ultras side by side, so I wanted to give my very quick impressions of them.

I've been using the prime bookshelves, center, and satellites (all black ash) for a little over a month now and I've enjoyed them thus far immensely. They look nice, image well, sound very clear, crisp, and neutral to my ears, and for the most part don't call too much attention to any particular frequency. I'd say they're a great all around set of speakers which can transition from HT to musical use with ease. My biggest complaint with them is that the treble is a bit sibilant/edgy at times, but this could be due to me being particularly treble sensitive. With that said, I truly love the primes and for the price, I think they represent the best speaker value I've personally heard thus far.

I recently got a pair of ultra bookshelves (piano gloss) off the outlet for $700/pair to see if they were a noticeable improvement to me. My first impression was that the piano black gloss looks amazing! I got them for $350 each due to light scratches that couldn't be photographed, but all I see is swirl marks if I shine a flashlight directly on them; no scratches. Either way they look fantastic and the swirls are only noticeable if shining a flashlight directly on them. I dusted them with a chemical guys microfibre cloth and aggressively rubbed a bit of the underside to see if it would scratch the finish (the microfibre cloths don't scratch my car's clear coat so i figured they shouldn't scratch the gloss finish) and to my relief, it didn't scratch. I'm not certain if the swirl marks I'm seeing are normal or from the past owner dusting them. Either way, if you get the black gloss, expect to dust them a lot as they're dust magnets and don't be too sad if they scratch a bit, because it's really not that noticeable unless it's a large scuff mark. As for the sound, I was pleasantly surprised. Surprised because from everything I've read to speaking with SVS reps, I expected them to basically sound the same, but be a bit smoother in the treble, more resolving, and slightly bassier. Tonally they are similar, but I feel the differences between the two is much more apparent than what you might think. The biggest difference, to my ears, is the bass presence and treble smoothness. The ultras have a more full bodied bass and sound a bit warmer than the primes. The ultra's treble sounds smoother and never was sibilant to my ears. As for the soundstage/imaging, both image incredibly well and I feel I could happily use them in stereo without a center for HT use, but the ultra's soundstage felt larger to my ears. I only compared the speakers using music playing through my denon in DIRECT mode (2 channel only), so I can't speak to differences in HT use, but the Ultras sound like the more "musical" speaker to my ears.

With that said, the primes are no slouch and I'd argue they're a better value overall than the ultras. I hope this helps someone who's on the fence considering the two. If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to ask and I'll help to the best of my ability. I have a pair of PSA mt110 coming in Saturday which I could compare with if anyone is interested.

Cheers.
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post #918 of 1195 Old 08-31-2016, 12:30 PM
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SVS is having a labor day sale on their Outlet items. Ultra Bookshelf speakers for $299, Ultra Towers for $699

Prime Bookshelf for $179, and satellites as low as $99.
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post #919 of 1195 Old 09-02-2016, 02:02 PM
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Speakers and subs are going very fast, if you are in the market for Prime Towers, especially piano gloss, they have them for $299!!!!
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post #920 of 1195 Old 09-02-2016, 03:35 PM
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Speakers and subs are going very fast, if you are in the market for Prime Towers, especially piano gloss, they have them for $299!!!!
Basically, that's buy one get one free for a pair. Shame they didn't have any Ultra Centers. I was thinking about maybe upgrading my Prime center.
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It just so happens I blew my twenty year old Definitive Technology Celsius bookshelf speakers a week ago and have been looking at these, the only thing that gives me pause is a comment on one of the reviews, stating "these are not turn it up rock speakers". I rarely listen in two channel mode but sometimes play concert blu rays at fairly loud levels so I am somewhat concerned about this.

My room is a dedicated theater room, about 13' X 15' and open to a billiards room, and then open to a stairway. Not the best environment to be sure but the Def Techs were always capable, to a point, until they weren't ...I'll probably obsess about it till they are gone, opinions??
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post #922 of 1195 Old 09-02-2016, 07:24 PM
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Basically, that's buy one get one free for a pair. Shame they didn't have any Ultra Centers. I was thinking about maybe upgrading my Prime center.
I know right? My Salamander stand only accommodates up to 21" wide, the Ultra center is 22".
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post #923 of 1195 Old 09-03-2016, 02:33 AM
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It just so happens I blew my twenty year old Definitive Technology Celsius bookshelf speakers a week ago and have been looking at these, the only thing that gives me pause is a comment on one of the reviews, stating "these are not turn it up rock speakers". I rarely listen in two channel mode but sometimes play concert blu rays at fairly loud levels so I am somewhat concerned about this.

My room is a dedicated theater room, about 13' X 15' and open to a billiards room, and then open to a stairway. Not the best environment to be sure but the Def Techs were always capable, to a point, until they weren't ...I'll probably obsess about it till they are gone, opinions??
I just had all my Prime speakers in "nine channel stereo" mode because reasons, at -3db off reference volume. Playing music for a good hour+ and they didn't break a sweat at all. Perhaps the Primes are not the best valued speakers, but one thing is for sure; they're built like tanks.

My room size is 12' x 16', sealed room.


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I know right? My Salamander stand only accommodates up to 21" wide, the Ultra center is 22".
Doesn't actually matter? Don't obsess over 1" hanging out of the stand. Get it!
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post #924 of 1195 Old 09-03-2016, 08:29 AM
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I just had all my Prime speakers in "nine channel stereo" mode because reasons, at -3db off reference volume. Playing music for a good hour+ and they didn't break a sweat at all. Perhaps the Primes are not the best valued speakers, but one thing is for sure; they're built like tanks.

My room size is 12' x 16', sealed room.




Doesn't actually matter? Don't obsess over 1" hanging out of the stand. Get it!
+1, my Prime towers (I usually listen in two channel) have no problem playing louder than I'm comfortable with in my 14'x28' room. At $299 each, give them a try. You can always return them. You have nothing to lose.

Also, yeah, that's just a half inch on each end. If you use felt or rubber feet, it wall look like the stand was designed for that CC speaker.
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post #925 of 1195 Old 09-03-2016, 08:38 AM
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Outlet Ultra Towers have been reduced to $599. That's what I paid for my Prime towers with the piano gloss. Tempted to go Ultra towers up front, prime towers for surround, except my wife would probably kill me. But she might not....
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post #926 of 1195 Old 09-03-2016, 08:38 AM
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+1, my Prime towers (I usually listen in two channel) have no problem playing louder than I'm comfortable with in my 14'x28' room. At $299 each, give them a try. You can always return them. You have nothing to lose.

Also, yeah, that's just a half inch on each end. If you use felt or rubber feet, it wall look like the stand was designed for that CC speaker.
I'll probably order soon, I'm trying to pick out two with the lesser damage.
The Ultra will not physically fit into the cabinet, it's an inch too narrow, I've got plenty of room above and behind.
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post #927 of 1195 Old 09-03-2016, 08:43 AM
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I'll probably order soon, I'm trying to pick out two with the lesser damage.
The Ultra will not physically fit into the cabinet, it's an inch too narrow, I've got plenty of room above and behind.
1184 and 1249 are the two I'd go for...

They both say damage too light to photograph.
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1184 and 1249 are the two I'd go for...

They both say damage too light to photograph.
1184 and 1249 are ordered, as well as a Prime center in black ash. Figured I could save a hundred because it will be enclosed. Thanks!
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post #929 of 1195 Old 09-04-2016, 11:05 PM
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Looking to get the following for my 3.1 setup in my living room:

Prime Bookshelves
Prime Center
SB-2000 Subwoofer w/ Soundpath isolation system

At Best Buy this evening, the Magnolia guy was trying to get me to consider the following as an alternative:

Martin Logan Motion 15 Bookshelves
Martin Logan Motion 6 Compact Center Channel
Martin Logan Dynamo 700W Subwoofer

The Martin Logan system was going to be $70 more then the SVS system, plus I would have to pay sales tax at Best Buy.

Was the Best Buy guy just trying to get me to buy from him, or are these specific Martin Logan speakers comparable? Stinks I can't hear the SVS speakers live prior to making a purchase decision, but Best Buy did have the SB-2000 for me to compare. Gotta say the SB-2000 seemed like it could do the lower frequencies better, which I guess shouldn't be surprising given the ML is a 10" and the SB-2000 is a 12" I guess?

Maybe I'm just looking for some reassurance that the SVS Prime &SB-2000 3.1 system will be better and/or a better value...




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post #930 of 1195 Old 09-05-2016, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Nut View Post
Looking to get the following for my 3.1 setup in my living room:

Prime Bookshelves
Prime Center
SB-2000 Subwoofer w/ Soundpath isolation system

At Best Buy this evening, the Magnolia guy was trying to get me to consider the following as an alternative:

Martin Logan Motion 15 Bookshelves
Martin Logan Motion 6 Compact Center Channel
Martin Logan Dynamo 700W Subwoofer

The Martin Logan system was going to be $70 more then the SVS system, plus I would have to pay sales tax at Best Buy.

Was the Best Buy guy just trying to get me to buy from him, or are these specific Martin Logan speakers comparable? Stinks I can't hear the SVS speakers live prior to making a purchase decision, but Best Buy did have the SB-2000 for me to compare. Gotta say the SB-2000 seemed like it could do the lower frequencies better, which I guess shouldn't be surprising given the ML is a 10" and the SB-2000 is a 12" I guess?

Maybe I'm just looking for some reassurance that the SVS Prime &SB-2000 3.1 system will be better and/or a better value...




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Well, first off; SVS offers an in-home no risk 45 days trial. There's no reason not to take advantage of this because the ONLY way to properly assess a speaker's performance is by having them IN YOUR ROOM. Because loudspeakers are not headphones or IEMs by design, room dimensions and shape plays a major role in how they perform and sound. What you hear in a store simply does not represent what they would sound like in your own space.

As everyone has/would suggest, order the Primes and try them out first. The Martin Logan Motion speakers are rather different to the SVS Primes in sound signature. So tbh, they are not apples-to-apples comparison where people can tell you how much or less one can sound to another. This falls into the subjective area basically and only you can decide which sort of sound you prefer.

As for the sub, the SB2000 does indeed outperform the ML Dynamo 700w on all fronts. The SB2000 has more headroom where it can extend down to 19hz in an anechoic chamber, actual rooms would give you even more room gain. My dual SB2000s extends down to 15hz with strong output with clean presentation up to 150hz in a 1650cu ft.room.

Finally as for the value, really it's hard to say. The ML Motion speakers are seriously fine speakers if you solely look at build quality and how ML made them sound. But it goes back to what I said earlier, they have a different sound signature to the Prime speakers, so the "value" here is void because you have to decide which sound you like better.
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