New SVS Prime series speakers - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 1195 Old 11-10-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kwell88 View Post
For anybody that has heard these how would you say they compare to the similarly prices Energy or Def. Tech floor speakers? I have narrowed my choices down to a few towers and would choose the DefTech 8020's as my favorite(as well as my wife's favorite mostly due to their small size) then I stumbled onto this thread and am wondering if these are worth a closer look? I will be pairing them with an entry level pioneer receiver and a SVS PB1000, and eventually adding the matched center and rear bookshelves for surrounds.
I carry Energy but not Def. Tech. PM me if you want to talk about specifics. I can speak more freely in a PM or on the phone.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video
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post #92 of 1195 Old 11-10-2014, 03:35 PM
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thank you very much for the detailed response on these new speakers. without going into specifics and slamming other companies, your thoughts come through loud and clear. impressed to say the least. my friend is heavily considering these to replace an age old bose system....suffice it to say he will be in audio nirvana it appears.
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post #93 of 1195 Old 11-10-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I had a chance to take a much closer listen once I got a solid 48 hours on them. I'm going to intentionally benchmark these against speakers that cost a lot more. So any words that sound negative may actually kick the crap out of products costing the same as these speakers. In short: these factually are overachievers at their price point. If I put a huge grill cloth over the front of the room and told my $10K speaker budget customer they cost 5X or 8X more, he would not think it was out of line. I'm not saying these can compete with the best $10K speakers; they cannot. But I can find you a lot of highly rated $10K speakers that are not worth that amount of money. So yes, I can quickly locate a dozen $10K speakers that are downright below average yet mysteriously highly recommended by reviewers. Have you ever read a bad review? Anyways, these Prime's can easily beat some of them. For political reasons, PM me if you want to know more. I don't want to list brands I dislike and are over rated. But you would be shocked to learn how many people need to spend more out of their perception and buy off of reviews. I blame it on their small you-know-what but that's for another thread. I diverge...

Re: Break-In. There was a small yet noticeable shift after 40 hours. Some of the top end smoothed out a touch. I don't know if that was the crossover shift or the drivers (or both). But don't judge them until you give them some exercise. Out of the box 2 days ago, they sounded a little "thin" around the midbass frequency which had me a little concerned. There was never a shortage of bottom end. After 40 hours, that thinness was gone. Perception wise, if a speaker has more top end, it always sounds "thinner" and with less body. Imagine if you put your hand slightly over the tweeters, the sound would be "fuller" yet nothing else would change. So I am not sure when the top end settled in if that was the reason the midbass sounding in balance or if there was a shift inside the midbasslf. Who knows and I guess who cares.

Mind you, I have initially bolted them up to an extremely good sounding $4800 retail integrated stereo receiver. This product can compete with skies-the-limit priced electronics. I didn't want to hold these speakers back. I wanted to see how much I could extract. Later, I will bolt it up to a home theater receiver which factually won't sound as good.

The great news is I hear NO cabinet resonant frequency. When vendors cut corners, imaging or also called the "phantom center" takes its toll as you can hear the box. For those who are not familiar with the audiophile mumbo-jumbo, you want the voice to sound like it is coming in between the left and right when only playing stereo a.k.a. imaging. The more focused the voice in between the speakers the better because that means the left and right speakers disappear in the room. So with the SVS Prime's they imaged very well. Sometimes bad cabinet designs start to fall apart when you crank them. These play LOUD without any distortion or driver break-up. My guess is they intentionally designed the crossover to dodge the cabinets resonate frequency. But whatever they did worked. Normally it takes megabuck bracing (which is reflected in the weight) in order to make it inert. None the less, their design works. In a perfect world, I'd like them to install a small curved base on the bottom to give the speakers some "jewelry". But they were after audio performance 1st, 2nd and 3rd and not looks. Don't get me wrong, I think they the gloss black looks rather nice (I prefer them without the grill cloths off). Personally, I'd splurge and get the gloss black. Do it right once.

I can comment that these were voiced by a vendor that appreciates more bottom end and bass. They easily measured down to 30Hz in room response. Normally speakers with this sized cabinets are much more anemic.

Part 1 of 2. More to follow... I have to listen some more.
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I've been swapping back and forth several sets of speakers. A key attribute with this Prime speaker is it's top end. It is pristine but not "bright". Again, I think it is fair to intentionally compare these to the best of the best just to put it in context. I'd say it is very analogous overall to the Revel Performa3 F206 that I also carry which won the AbsoluteSound GoldenEar Award. The $3500 retail F206 certainly is going to win in a beauty contest over the SVS but it does not necessarily sound "better". That's going to be subjective. They really do sound close (F206 and the SVS floor standing speakers). But the top end of the DALI Rubicon's ($3K a pair is their cheapest booksfelf model) does more things right in all categories than both the Revel and the SVS. Their Rubicon 6's ($6K) is a "value" at the $6K price point. I'm comparing them to the bigger Rubicon 8's ($8K). Subjectively, I will pick these Rubicon's over speakers that I sell for 3X more money. I personally own the Rubicon's in my home. Again, the Rubicon's won't win a beauty contest. Go for the Epicon ($8K bookshelf) if you want beauty and even better sound. I have 2 kids in college or I would pony up some more $$'s. Such is life.

As I said before, you don't get 8X better sound when you comare the best $1K speaker to the best $8K pair. But I look at it this way, the BEST $10K speaker will always sound better than the best $5K speaker which will always sound better than the best $1K speaker. But the correlation coefficient to price Uuse to pretty strong years ago. But speakers have been getting better for less and there are some incredible statistical outliers. Like it or not, some of the best speaker driver companies have been bought by the Chinese. So it goes to reason that some incredible technology will occur in not so expensive speakers. This SVS Prime speaker is one of them. I'm assuming the drivers are manufactured in China yet voiced my the SVS team. BUt you know what happens when people assume.

Summary: I needed to listen to the Prime series before I started to sell them. I don't want to sell a product that I have a high risk of getting back in 45 days. I now understand why they can make such an offer.

I have not even opened up their center yet. I need to make sure it is voiced identically to the left and right pair. But these speakers are indeed sonically a major deal. Forgetting the sensitivity, their 8 ohm load must have a reasonably flat impedance load because they "open up" at low listening levels. That will be incredibly important for people who want to use lower priced receivers that don't have the balls to drive difficult loads. Again.. More to follow in the coming days.

I think this might be a winner!
The price is amazing for what you get.
Coming from DIY, a very good cabinet cost a lot in money and in time.


I bought a few subs from SVS and got my business for a well quality above what you can get from elsewhere (not to mention Tom V {a co-founder of SVS} was trying to help me with my DIY and not doing a sell).
Also about the break in period. I did not believe in it, until I got my aperion Verus Grand.
They do get better after a few hour of playing loud.


Ray


Please keep coming with your impressions!
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post #94 of 1195 Old 11-12-2014, 01:22 PM
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Hello all,

I just joined with the intention of PMing Steve but it says I must have 15 posts before that is allowed.

Steve is there a way I can reach you otherwise?

Thanks,
Randy
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post #95 of 1195 Old 11-12-2014, 04:31 PM
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Anyone else find it odd that the center channel speaker is using different size drivers than both the bookshelf and floor standers? I thought the front stage should be matched?
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post #96 of 1195 Old 11-12-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jb1677 View Post
Anyone else find it odd that the center channel speaker is using different size drivers than both the bookshelf and floor standers? I thought the front stage should be matched?
You're not alone with that thought. Right now I have 3 bookshelf speakers from the 90's for my LRC. I'm considering the Ultra or Prime series for an overdue and probably last upgrade... I recall reading one reviewer who prefered to use 3 Ultra BS's, skipping the official center channel.

Hope you get an answer to your question.

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post #97 of 1195 Old 11-13-2014, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jb1677 View Post
Anyone else find it odd that the center channel speaker is using different size drivers than both the bookshelf and floor standers? I thought the front stage should be matched?
Ideally but as long as the center speaker can keep up volumwise timbre matching is far more important. My fronts have 6" mid/lows and the center has 5 1/4" but I hear no difference in sound as it pans.
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post #98 of 1195 Old 11-14-2014, 07:43 PM
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Cnet review is up

Pretty darn glowing.

http://www.cnet.com/products/svs-prime-tower/
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post #99 of 1195 Old 11-15-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post
Cnet review is up

Pretty darn glowing.

http://www.cnet.com/products/svs-prime-tower/
Thanks for the link dildaton.

I have these moments of small madness... Prime Towers(4) FL,FR, RSL, RSR; Prime Center; Satellites(2) Front Heights & (2) Side Surrounds, PC2000 for the sub...

Or in a larger moment of madness a similar setup in the Ultra series except due to size I'd have to go with the bookshelves in place of the Prime Towers... and the side surrounds would be the Ultras, same sub... Bwahahahaha

Hey, someone here said "Do it once and do it right.", (sorry, the old memory banks do not recall who said it.), and at my age any upgrade will likely be my last

Oh well, nice to have dreams and my decades old speakers still sound okay... (eh, whats that you say sonny?)
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post #100 of 1195 Old 11-15-2014, 04:22 PM
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now those sound like words of a quitter....you ain't no quitter, are you??!!


upgrade-itis has no quit in it!
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post #101 of 1195 Old 11-15-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post
Cnet review is up

Pretty darn glowing.

http://www.cnet.com/products/svs-prime-tower/
I take this review with a grain of salt after commenting the following:" But this extra fidelity can come with a downside: while we never found the SVSes to be harsh they could sometimes lack intimacy, particularly with vocals. If you are instead looking for something more "fun" or even "warmer," then the Klipsch RF-62 II towers or B&W 685 S2 bookshelves might be a better alternative."


if he really thinks the rf-62's are "warmer" than the prime speakers....well I better get my hearing checked. clear and very detailed yes, and nowhere near as "bright" as that horn tweeter in the rf-62. klipsch quoted as being warm? no way...
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post #102 of 1195 Old 11-15-2014, 05:16 PM
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I take this review with a grain of salt after commenting the following:" But this extra fidelity can come with a downside: while we never found the SVSes to be harsh they could sometimes lack intimacy, particularly with vocals. If you are instead looking for something more "fun" or even "warmer," then the Klipsch RF-62 II towers or B&W 685 S2 bookshelves might be a better alternative."


if he really thinks the rf-62's are "warmer" than the prime speakers....well I better get my hearing checked. clear and very detailed yes, and nowhere near as "bright" as that horn tweeter in the rf-62. klipsch quoted as being warm? no way...
I'm sure he thinks the klipschs are more "fun" and the b&w's warmer.
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post #103 of 1195 Old 11-16-2014, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post
Cnet review is up

Pretty darn glowing.

http://www.cnet.com/products/svs-prime-tower/
I wouldn't put stock in what Steve Guttenberg has to say about anything. They may be great speakers, but he isn't a source I would trust.


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post #104 of 1195 Old 11-16-2014, 04:17 PM
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now those sound like words of a quitter....you ain't no quitter, are you??!!


upgrade-itis has no quit in it!
Well, growing old ain't for sissies either, as the days can be trying at times :-) Also I've upgraded many things in the past and while it can be fun the newness always wears off and for me, I find happiness/contentment does not lie down that path, it never ends... Also the wallet is not as thick as it used to be and I have other priorities at times.

I think the Prime route will likely be my path and it will be done in stages, probably beginning in the new year, lots of financial obligations hit me the last several months of each year in addition to the normal day to day costs of living. As I posted, maybe in another thread, I think the PC2000 sub will be my first step. Then do the LRC components, then Surround rears, then heights and surround sides.. progressing through the stages as each one is paid for.

Take care,

Regards, Ken (Retired)
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post #105 of 1195 Old 11-16-2014, 05:16 PM
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Would these be considered an upgrade coming from Polk RTi8's?

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post #106 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 05:27 PM
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I've been planning to upgrade my rear surrounds for a while, today our local high end theater store was hosting their annual expo. While there I ran into Dan from SVS, and got a chance to hear the new Prime towers. It was far from an ideal listening experience, but my initial impression was that the high end and low end extension on the Prime towers was superior to my EMP ti55 towers. The EMP speakers had better performance in the midrange.

For me low end isn't a big deal (I cross everything under 80hz to the sub anyway), and I thought the midrange on my EMP was significantly better then on the Prime speaker. Of course, I bet getting this thing dialed in, and placed in a better room would narrow that gap a lot, but at this point I'm happy with my EMP's. I would love the chance to give the SVS speakers a more through demo. Truthfully it isn't a fair competion, considering my towers are well broken in, and in my own theater.

Now on another note, after speaking with Dan about it today, I'm all but sold on a Prime satellites for my rear surrounds. I'm going to demo them tomorrow, and expect that I'll be buying a pair. Should make for some great surrounds.

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post #107 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 05:31 PM
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Would these be considered an upgrade coming from Polk RTi8's?
IMO, yes.

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post #108 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LJ25 View Post
Would these be considered an upgrade coming from Polk RTi8's?
Buy them and find out? It really is the only way you'll know if these SVS's sound better than your RTi8's. Take everything with a grain of salt from all reviews. Your ears, room eq, audio equip setup will be the only thing that will tell to you the answer to your question
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post #109 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
The Prime towers look to have a sensitivity of 87 dB.....could we call these "dynamic" with an Average Joe AVR?

I recommend SVS all the time...but any $500 speaker that takes 500 watts to hit a 105 dB dynamic peak is off my recommendation shortlist....(assuming 13' away, 2 speakers)

Quill

For those interested, using the same math, a speaker with 97 dB sensitivity can hit 105 dB under the same criteria with 50 watts.....one tenth the wattage.
Dude, I get what you are trying to say, but talking about true cinematic reference level with 'home theater' speakers is pretty much futile. Even the higher sensitivity horn-based home theater speakers are going to be hard pressed to perform at reference level with distortion that is anywhere near acceptable.

Sensitivity rating of home theater marketed speakers, for which there really isn't any measurement standard anyway, means as much as a hill of beans.


If you REALLY want low distortion, high power reference level in a home cinema, you need to be shopping in the pro market. Chane comes to mind as an inexpensive entry point.
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post #110 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 07:43 PM
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Dude, I get what you are trying to say, but talking about true cinematic reference level with 'home theater' speakers is pretty much futile. Even the higher sensitivity horn-based home theater speakers are going to be hard pressed to perform at reference level with distortion that is anywhere near acceptable.

Sensitivity rating of home theater marketed speakers, for which there really isn't any measurement standard anyway, means as much as a hill of beans.


If you REALLY want low distortion, high power reference level in a home cinema, you need to be shopping in the pro market. Chane comes to mind as an inexpensive entry point.
My point was that no speaker in this price range should be bragging about dynamics (in big bold print) with an 87dB sensitivity. You don't need to blow the bank account to find a speaker with mid ~90s sensitivity -- in fact there are many, many available for less than the Primes.

Not saying they're bad....Mr Physics is just saying you need hundreds of continuous watts per channel if you want to reproduce a movie soundtrack at or near reference...dynamically.
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post #111 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 07:49 PM
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Sensitivity rating of home theater marketed speakers, for which there really isn't any measurement standard anyway, means as much as a hill of beans.
Here's a primer. For more, just google words like measuring speaker sensitivity....

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...ensitivity.htm
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post #112 of 1195 Old 11-21-2014, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
My point was that no speaker in this price range should be bragging about dynamics (in big bold print) with an 87dB sensitivity. You don't need to blow the bank account to find a speaker with mid ~90s sensitivity -- in fact there are many, many available for less than the Primes.

Not saying they're bad....Mr Physics is just saying you need hundreds of continuous watts per channel if you want to reproduce a movie soundtrack at or near reference...dynamically.
So what you're saying is that Dynamics in speakers is just about high sensitivity?
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post #113 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 07:48 AM
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i have svs mbs01's and they are plenty dynamic. i believe they are only 87db sensitivity as well. not so sure i agree with above post.
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post #114 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 08:16 AM
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I doubt svs is stating in their terms that (dynamic=reference level sound.) could they of worded it differently? sure, if they wanted to keep the audiophile gods at bay.

Habit Forming....Wallet Burning Hobby....55" Oled Lg C7 55" Samsung B8500 Fald Channel Master Dvr+ Onkyo RZ900 avr Crown xls 2002 2ch amp Samsung K8500 UBR player Svs Ultra Towers/Center, Svs Satellite Surrounds Svs Pb-13 Ultra Sub Bluesound Node 2I 2nd zone room: polk lsim 703's
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post #115 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 08:51 AM
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So what you're saying is that Dynamics in speakers is just about high sensitivity?
No, and we covered that earlier in this thread. But do the math on an AVR that puts out 7x50 watts, all channels driven (not the 2 ch number on the AVR box), and you get only ~95 dB max peaks at about 7 feet (and an amp beginning to clip).

So when I define "dynamic" in a moderately priced loudspeaker, I consider "can play the loud bits of a soundtrack on a decent AVR"...

Lower-sensitivity speakers can be amazing when pushed with enough wattage...but a sub $1K AVR won't do it.
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post #116 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 10:55 AM
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post #117 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJ25 View Post
Would these be considered an upgrade coming from Polk RTi8's?
You do get 45 days to try them out. That lets you do side by side comparisons with just the hassle of repacking the speakers to send them back should they not prove to be better.

Okay, there's also the hassle of setting them up, which could vary depending how easy it is in your setup.
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post #118 of 1195 Old 11-22-2014, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
You do get 45 days to try them out. That lets you do side by side comparisons with just the hassle of repacking the speakers to send them back should they not prove to be better.

Okay, there's also the hassle of setting them up, which could vary depending how easy it is in your setup.

Totally agree about trying it out but people should do some reading/research to find out if it is their kind of sound to keep those IP companies price low.
I did months of research before buying my subs from SVS and my aperion Verus grand.


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post #119 of 1195 Old 11-23-2014, 06:59 AM
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Went ahead yesterday and bought a pair of the Prime satellites. They will replace a pair of 13 year old KLH speakers (first real speakers I ever bought when I was 16 and first got into this hobby) . They will be rear surround speakers in a 7.1 setup which is a role I think they'll be fantastic in.
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post #120 of 1195 Old 11-23-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Went ahead yesterday and bought a pair of the Prime satellites. They will replace a pair of 13 year old KLH speakers (first real speakers I ever bought when I was 16 and first got into this hobby) . They will be rear surround speakers in a 7.1 setup which is a role I think they'll be fantastic in.

Let us know of your impression



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