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post #181 of 202 Old 03-26-2016, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
I think this could be helpful to people wondering what the right amount to spend is. I also think most would agree that excessive wire and cable cost is a pointless waste of money.

There are plenty of threads telling you what you SHOULD do, I thought it would be helpful and informative to see what people ACTUALLY DID.

So, that is the context of this thread. I doesn't matter and is of no concern what you think anyone should or shouldn't do. We simply want to know what you did.

However, it is more about Value than Cost. For example, if you got a free cable, that cable still has value, it has an equivalent cost. You should consider the equivalent cost, though I leave that up to the individual. Many components come with free cables, and free is free.



Steve/bluewizard
What kind of person would think a percentage is helpful for speaker cable? If you have a stereo system that costs a million dollars or a hundred bucks the cost of the wire is the same if the distance is the same.

The cost for 150 feet of speaker wire for an Atmos system in a basement is much, much higher than 4 meters of speaker wire for a stereo system. It is much less expensive to have a meter of HDMI cable for a BluRay to a LCD TV than it is to run a 15 meter HDMI to a projection system.

The cost of the wire depends on the length and how many runs are required. How much does it cost to run electrical outlets 10 meters from a breaker panel in a $100K house VS a 5 Million dollar house...it would cost the same!

If a person asked me what kind of speaker wire should they run for their Pioneer BS22s or 1980 Infinity IRS Reference V speakers--it would be the same cost.

I'm running 80 feet of 12 and 14 gauge of either zip or Rapco PA cable in my house for the surround system and 34 feet of speaker cable in the garage. The garage signal cables are XLR and RCA with basic RCA and HDMI in the house.

Spending X percentage of the cost of an audio system on wire is the BS shoveled by the fraud audio shops trying to pad their profits with snake oil. The only people that would find that interesting either don't understand how electricity and signals work or an ass hat trying to scam people out of their money.
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post #182 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
What kind of person would think a percentage is helpful for speaker cable? If you have a stereo system that costs a million dollars or a hundred bucks the cost of the wire is the same if the distance is the same.
First it is NOT about speaker cable, it is about all wire and cable in the system.

And how better than Percentage to add perspective to the Subject?

And while we are on the issue of Subject, you are off it. We are not here to discuss what people SHOULD do, but rather to document what people actually DID.

If you have something to add on that subject, if you would like to list your equipment, and wire and cable cost, then feel free. But there is nothing to discuss here. Either contribute on topic or don't bother to contribute at all.

My thread ... my rules.

And my rules, backed up by the Moderators, are -

System Component List -

Item 1 = $$$
Item 2 = $$$
---------------------
Total = $$$$

Wire and Cable List -

Item 1 = $$$
Item 2 = $$$
-----------------------
Total = $$$$

Cable Total / System Total = Percentage

Many people have responded perfectly within that format.

No need for discussion, no need for pointless tangents.

If you don't get it ... move on.

Just the facts ma'am...just the facts.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 03-27-2016 at 08:46 AM.
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post #183 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter duque View Post
I enjoy reading this thread.

Audio only:
Now this is retail pricing, I paid way less for it.
7.2 system
$ 52.000.00


Wires and connectors maybe $300.00
I think I better go and spend some money.
$300 / $52,000 = 0.6%

Remember it is All Wire and Cable, not just speaker wire.

Thanks for posting your data.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 03-27-2016 at 10:00 AM.
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post #184 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post
Lets see:
TV: $2000
AVR: $600
Blu-Ray: $150
Squeeze Touch: $300
HTPC: $800
Speakers: $1000
So, roughly $4850.

Cables:
Spool of White 14 gauge lamp cord: $30.00
4 HDMI Cables: $2/each $8.00
1 RCA cables (from Squeeze): $10.00
Network Cable 5E, spool was $50,
used maybe 1/4 of it, couple of bucks
for RJ45 jacks: $20.00
Coaxial Cable from/to cable box,
and tuner card in HTPC $10
Roughly $78.00
Actually it is $128 for the wire and cable -

$128 / $4850 = 2.64%

Thanks for the Data.
Steve/bluewizard
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post #185 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:13 AM
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600 spent out of 12k total not counting tv, estimated...
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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #186 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:19 AM
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My system cost is very modest, in MSRP -

Speakers: $1500
Sub: $1400 (2 subs)
TV: $2000
Media players: $400

Cabling
100ft 12 gauge roll - $45
banana plus - $22
misc HDMI + RCA - $15
4 Neutrik connectors - $12

Its hard to see why anyone would spend more on cables.
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post #187 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm starting to worry that people on the extremes of the spectrum are reluctant to post for fear there systems will seem out of proportion. But there really is no proportion to be out of.

Every system is the right system if the owner is satisfied. Every cable budget is the right cable budget, if the owner is satisfied. No Judgements.

Some seem to think that in running this thread I am trying to force people to spend a particular percent on cable and wire, though I recommend about 5% budgeted, I have no interest in what any wants to spend. That is, spend more, spend less, I'm cool either way.

The goal is to find out what people actually did in their system, and I think we are seeing pertty consistent results.

I really appreciate all the people who posted their System and Cable, and even to those who engaged in productive discussion.

The other thread I have running is in a UK Forum, and I thought USA and UK would give us a very nice cross section of systems.

Here is that thread -

https://www.avforums.com/threads/wir...u-pay.1912612/

The results are very similar to what we are seeing here in the USA forum.

Thanks again.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #188 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
My system cost is very modest, in MSRP -

Speakers: $1500
Sub: $1400 (2 subs)
TV: $2000
Media players: $400

Cabling
100ft 12 gauge roll - $45
banana plus - $22
misc HDMI + RCA - $15
4 Neutrik connectors - $12

Its hard to see why anyone would spend more on cables.
System -

$5300 with TV

$3300 without TV

$94 for wire and cable


With TV -

94 / 5300 = 1.8%

Without TV -

94 / 3300 = 2.85%

Thanks for adding your system.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 03-27-2016 at 09:58 AM.
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post #189 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
600 spent out of 12k total not counting tv, estimated...
600 / 12,000 = 5%

Thanks for posting.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #190 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Actually it is $128 for the wire and cable -

$128 / $4850 = 2.64%

Thanks for the Data.
Steve/bluewizard
No. Your math is wrong.

$30.00 + $8.00 + $10.00 + $20.00 + $10 = $78

$78/$4850 = 1.6%
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post #191 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
No. Your math is wrong.

$30.00 + $8.00 + $10.00 + $20.00 + $10 = $78

$78/$4850 = 1.6%
Maybe my math is wrong, or perhaps I just misunderstood what you posted. But my total was $128.

Spool of White 14 gauge lamp cord: $30.00
4 HDMI Cables: $2/each $8.00
1 RCA cables (from Squeeze): $10.00
Network Cable 5E, spool was $50,
used maybe 1/4 of it, couple of bucks
for RJ45 jacks: $20.00
Coaxial Cable from/to cable box,
and tuner card in HTPC $10

30 + 8 + 10 + 50 + 20 + 10 = 128

But you know your system better than I do, so if you say it is 1.6%, then we will accept that number.

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post #192 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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If someone can think of a better format to present this data, let me know. I have it in a spreadsheet.

Attached is a chart that is % vs System Cost.

Most of the data points fall in the 1% to 3% range, with a still significant number in the 3% to 5% range.

For what it is worth.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #193 of 202 Old 03-27-2016, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a direct link to the chart -



Most of the systems in the 1% to 5% range and most of the systems under $20,000.

Again ... for what it is worth.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 03-27-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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post #194 of 202 Old 03-28-2016, 05:52 PM
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Projector $15,000
A Lens and Slide $8,000
Screen $3,000
HDMI 10M $800
HDMI 2M x 2 $250
Bluray $1,000
Power Cond $700
L/R Speakers $15,000
Amps $13,000
Processor $2,500
Sonos to stream Tidal $350
Coax cable $150
Pair Balanced Interconnects $560
Pair 2M Speaker Cables $1,250
IEC Plugs x 6 $1100

So total is $62,660... wow i never realized it was that bad!

Cables only $4,110

So $4,110/$62,660 = 6.6%
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post #195 of 202 Old 03-29-2016, 05:29 AM
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System:

Speakers (5) $3425
Sub (1) $700
Receiver $700
Streaming/server $600
Turntable/phono amp $525
BluRay, CD changer $0 (gifts)
TV $950

Total $6900


Wires & cables:

Speaker wire w/ banana plugs $80
HDMI cables $65
Interconnects $30

Total $175
So about 2.5%

No shame. I like it and did try more expensive Nordost speaker cables. No difference heard, back they went. Maybe if I get much better stuff I'd notice but I remain skeptical.

Edit: added TV, an integral part of the system
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post #196 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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From the thread in the UK forum here are the results.




Very similar results to what we have in this thread.

Also, thanks to those who added additional data.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #197 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showcattleguy View Post
...

So total is $62,660... wow i never realized it was that bad!

Cables only $4,110

So $4,110/$62,660 = 6.6%
Wow! Sweet system. Thanks for posting.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #198 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Both charts can be considered Public Domain, if ...by chance... anyone else has any use for them.

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post #199 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 02:10 PM
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Glad to know I'm not the only one with this "problem"

Speakers $3400
Subs $2600
AVR $1200
Screen $1800
Projector $3800

BASS traps + other panels $1500

Total $14,300

Pioneer SC-95, Axiom M80, VP180 Dual EP500 all V4. ISCO III, RS540 + Stewart Cima Neve 133
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post #200 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Though I had a slight ulterior motive for starting this thread, I will let the data speak for itself.

I generally tell people to BUDGET 5% of their system cost for wire and cable, but remind them, this is simply for working out the budget.

When it comes time to actually spend, they are free to spend more or less as they please. It is not up to me to tell them what they can or can not do.

I would say these chart somewhat confirm that recommendation.

Most seem to be in the 1% to 3% range across a wide cross-section of prices.

EDITED: Also notice that while most fall in the 1% to 5% range, there are a fair few who fall in the 0% to 1% range.

In the UK the most expensive system was £25,000 (US$35.4k).

Here in the USA, the same 1% to 3% range was common, but the most expensive systems were up at $52,000 and now $62,000.

Though there were a fair amount of people in both places in the 3% to 5% range. Only rarely did anyone go much over 5%.

Now to those who spent 15%, 20%, 25%, or more, you are not being criticized. (At least not by me.) If you are happy with the result, then we are happy for you.

In many Wire and Cable threads, there is no shortage of people telling you what you should do, I simply thought it would be informative to find out what people actually did. Make of it what you will, but I most certainly found it informative in many ways.

For example, many people with considerably expensive systems had very, almost extremely, modest amounts in wire and cable. Initially I thought it was just a few oddballs, but No, many with expensive system were perfectly happy with very modest wire and cable budget.

While the budget people might have found those with higher wire and cable budgets excessive, ultimately even those who spent considerably, were still modest and restrained ... relatively speaking.

Other may have gotten nothing from this, but I for one found it enlightening and informative.

I definitely want to thank all those who took part by itemizing their systems.

Since I now have this in a Spreadsheet, if others are inclined to continue to contribute, I can add them to the spreadsheet, and when we have significantly more data, I will post a new chart.

Thanks again to all.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 04-06-2016 at 09:25 AM.
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post #201 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
Glad to know I'm not the only one with this "problem"

Speakers $3400
Subs $2600
AVR $1200
Screen $1800
Projector $3800

BASS traps + other panels $1500

Total $14,300
Excellent, half way there. The Subject is WIRE and CABLE as a percent of system cost.

Could you either itemize all your wire and cable, or just give us the total? I think we can exclude the bass traps/panels from the system total.

As to Screen, not necessary as there are no cable to the screen, but you can decide whether you want to include the Projector or not. Projectors do require cables, as do TVs, so I guess they should count.

Thanks for posting, but if we could get your Wire and Cable cost, that would be great.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #202 of 202 Old 04-05-2016, 04:02 PM
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14 gauge 500ft roll home debit 50 bucks for 9 speakers

4 hdmi cables 100 bucks

Sub + misc 50 bucks

Packs of banana plugs 100

350 bucks for everything is about right.

11000 / 350 = 3.1%

I excluded screen and traps
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