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-   -   JBL 705i/708i (7 Series Master Reference Monitors) & 725G/728G (subwoofers): Jan 2015 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1724906-jbl-705i-708i-7-series-master-reference-monitors-725g-728g-subwoofers-jan-2015-a.html)

DS-21 03-21-2015 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32776825)
I have my reasons for not wanting it. For healthy, young folks like us the only reason they want you to get the flu shot is for financial reasons, not because it's the best thing for you. Because it's not.

It amazes me the things that flow off people's keyboards.

Based on the scope of your comment, one must infer that you don't consciously choose to protect yourself due to a rare condition or in actual history of serious allergy to ingredients in the flu vaccine? Rather, you advocate risky behavior.

So, what is your medical training? Where did you go to med school? Where did you do your residence, and in what specialty? Where did you do your fellowship? Are you board-certified anywhere, in any field?

I am not an MD. My wife, however, is. She has Ivy League medical training, and is currently in a fellowship supported by an R25 research grant from the NIH.

As someone without medical training but with a functioning mind, I defer to her in matters of medicine. And her verdict is that it's crazy anti-science behavior to eschew flu shots, except in the two cases stated above.

(Also, as an aside, neither one of us paid for our flu shots; ours were covered, respectively, a research hospital and BigLaw.)

Anti-science in matters of sound reproduction (believe in voodoo wires, DACs, amps, etc.) merely separates the gullible and people with poor critical listening skills from discretionary income. Anti-science in matters of medicine affects human beings' health. The former is merely annoying, when it's not comical. The latter is tragic.

craig john 03-21-2015 10:54 AM

Quote:

CDC Presents Updated Estimates of Flu Vaccine Effectiveness for the 2014-2015 Season




Flu vaccine did not protect against drifted H3N2 viruses, but protected against vaccine-like H3N2 and B viruses

On February 26, 2015, updated interim influenza (flu) vaccine effectiveness (VE) estimates for the current 2014-2015 season were presented to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). The updated VE estimate against influenza A H3N2 viruses was 18% (95% confidence interval (CI): 6%-29%).This result is similar to the VE point estimate of 23%, which was reported in a January 16 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) and confirms reduced protection against H3N2 viruses this season. The VE estimate against influenza B viruses this season was 45% (95% CI: 14% – 65%).
I can't go to work if I don't get the flu vaccine. The hospital I work at would revoke my privileges if I didn't get it. They fired several employees last fall for refusing the vaccine. So I got it. And I got the flu TWICE this winter.

So yeah, get your flu shot! :rolleyes:

Gooddoc 03-21-2015 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 32808921)
It amazes me the things that flow off people's keyboards.

Based on the scope of your comment, one must infer that you don't consciously choose to protect yourself due to a rare condition or in actual history of serious allergy to ingredients in the flu vaccine? Rather, you advocate risky behavior.

So, what is your medical training? Where did you go to med school? Where did you do your residence, and in what specialty? Where did you do your fellowship? Are you board-certified anywhere, in any field?

I am not an MD. My wife, however, is. She has Ivy League medical training, and is currently in a fellowship supported by an R25 research grant from the NIH.

As someone without medical training but with a functioning mind, I defer to her in matters of medicine. And her verdict is that it's crazy anti-science behavior to eschew flu shots, except in the two cases stated above.

(Also, as an aside, neither one of us paid for our flu shots; ours were covered, respectively, a research hospital and BigLaw.)

Anti-science in matters of sound reproduction (believe in voodoo wires, DACs, amps, etc.) merely separates the gullible and people with poor critical listening skills from discretionary income. Anti-science in matters of medicine affects human beings' health. The former is merely annoying, when it's not comical. The latter is tragic.

I'm married to a doctor is not a great way to establish yourself as an authority in medicine :rolleyes:.

Yes, there is a potential risk to my choice, and a potential benefit as well. It's all about balancing that risk/benefit equation. I have the knowledge to make that decision and you don't, so it's likely best that you follow the advice of the policy wonks that draft policy that is easy for the masses to consume and fall in line with. I'm sure that our national policy has your individual interests in mind as their ultimate concern.

Gooddoc 03-21-2015 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig john (Post 32810385)
I can't go to work if I don't get the flu vaccine. The hospital I work at would revoke my privileges if I didn't get it. They fired several employees last fall for refusing the vaccine. So I got it. And I got the flu TWICE this winter.

So yeah, get your flu shot! :rolleyes:

The policy Nazi's have not gone that far at my institution yet, but it won't be long. For now I have to wear a mask when I am in within 6ft. of my patient. No one can point to ANY solid scientific evidence that I am any greater risk to my patient than before they walked through the door of the hospital, but it has NOTHING to do with that. It has to do with this: http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefi...oyee-flu-shots

In other words MONEY, not science.

The science is, at best, weak. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...lu-vaccination

DS-21 03-21-2015 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig john (Post 32810385)
*** I got the flu TWICE this winter.

So yeah, get your flu shot! :rolleyes:

Yes, the composition of the strains in the flu shot every year is an educated guess. And sometimes it will be wrong. So what?

That kind of "argument" is dismissed out of hand by anyone with a functioning mind. In audio terms, it's as stupid as the argument that one amp sounds better than another based on sighted listening with unmatched levels.

Let me put it another way. I had the MMR vaccine as a child, because my parents are responsible and intelligent people. Yet I contracted measles at 7 years old, during a trip to a developing country. It happens sometimes. Vaccines aren't 100% effective, obviously. But I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to try to stop our child from getting the MMR vaccine on or around 12mos. If we failed to vaccinate her, then we would be guilty (perhaps not legally*, but morally) of reckless endangerment.

*yet; while unfortunately I doubt failure to vaccinate will be a criminal charge in the near future, I know of attorneys who are ready to turn a sympathetic plaintiff into a test case to establish civil liability for failure to vaccinate in the event of an outbreak - but morally)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32810433)
I'm married to a doctor is not a great way to establish yourself as an authority in medicine :rolleyes:.

My point is that she's an actual authority (MD with Ivy League medical training, NIH funding, over 20 pubs, etc.) and, by your refusal to establish your credentials it's pretty clear you're not. Since I'm intelligent but don't have the subject matter expertise, I will listen to someone like her who is intelligent and actually has the requisite subject-matter expertise. And I will encourage other people with highly-functioning minds to do so as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32810433)
I have the knowledge to make that decision and you don't,

You haven't established that.

Where did you go to med school?
Where did you do your residency?
Where did you do your fellowship?
Are you currently a board-certified physician?

Answers to those questions establish whether you have actual relevant subject matter knowledge or "knowledge" of the sort the audio wire true believers have.

As for the knowledge that I have, I have the sense and the intellect to defer to credible sources instead of spreading vile anti-science nonsense.

Gooddoc 03-21-2015 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 32811257)

Where did you go to med school?
Where did you do your residency?
Where did you do your fellowship?
Are you currently a board-certified physician?

Answers to those questions establish whether you have actual relevant subject matter knowledge or "knowledge" of the sort the audio wire true believers have.

Where did you go to med school? Been there, done that.
Where did you do your residency? At an accredited institution
Where did you do your fellowship? No interest in the fellowships established by my specialty
Are you currently a board-certified physician? Yes, and 14 years of clinical practice.

I assume your wife is board certified and has a reasonable number of years of clinical practice in her specialty?

DS-21 03-21-2015 03:16 PM

Funny, I sent my wife a screenshot of this thread.

Her reply: dude must be a surgeon.

And she makes a good point. I know a lot of surgeons with tunnel vision, and surprising intellectual blind spots. The only people I personally know who believe in magic audio wires are surgeons!

Also, in re-reading it I noticed a statement that, in its most generous read is profoundly ignorant and may be construed as morally bankrupt:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32810433)
***t's likely best that you follow the advice of the policy wonks that draft policy that is easy for the masses to consume and fall in line with. I'm sure that our national policy has your individual interests in mind as their ultimate concern.

This statement displays a basic lack of understanding about the nature of public health. The point of mass vaccination has little to do one one's "individual interests." That's a happy byproduct. Rather, it's to reduce the prevalence of disease as a population. So especially for a health professional to take a selfish health choice rather than the choice that's in the best interest of the population...if I write what I think of the thought process that leads to that decision, someone will probably complain to the mods. Also, snide references to "policy wonks"...that's a bit of a dog whistle for certain dangerously anti-intellectual strains diseasing American politics...

At any rate, we're very far afield of the JBL 7-series speakers. However, it's fair to conclude my participation here (until I have experience with the speakers to relate) simply by noting that the JBL 7-series were designed with more appreciation for science than the anti-vaxxers' comments on this thread. They're an interesting design and I hope to hear them someday soon.

Gooddoc 03-21-2015 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 32817041)
Funny, I sent my wife a screenshot of this thread.

Her reply: dude must be a surgeon.

And she makes a good point. I know a lot of surgeons with tunnel vision, and surprising intellectual blind spots. The only people I personally know who believe in magic audio wires are surgeons!

Also, in re-reading it I noticed a statement that, in its most generous read is profoundly ignorant and may be construed as morally bankrupt:



This statement displays a basic lack of understanding about the nature of public health. The point of mass vaccination has little to do one one's "individual interests." That's a happy byproduct. Rather, it's to reduce the prevalence of disease as a population. So especially for a health professional to take a selfish health choice rather than the choice that's in the best interest of the population...if I write what I think of the thought process that leads to that decision, someone will probably complain to the mods. Also, snide references to "policy wonks"...that's a bit of a dog whistle for certain dangerously anti-intellectual strains diseasing American politics...

At any rate, we're very far afield of the JBL 7-series speakers. However, it's fair to conclude my participation here (until I have experience with the speakers to relate) simply by noting that the JBL 7-series were designed with more appreciation for science than the anti-vaxxers' comments on this thread. They're an interesting design and I hope to hear them someday soon.

You started a discussion about which you know nothing, then proceed to make assumptions about my credentials in a condescending tone that continues even after its clear that I'm the only one of us in the conversation that is in a position of authority about the subject matter.

You've been wrong about every assumption you have made regarding my credentials, my profession, and my position on vaccinations which is complex and based on actual research, not regurgitated nonsense from some "authority" that has no more knowledge on the subject than I do.

Is she's an "MD with Ivy League training, NIH funding, over 20 pubs, etc." code word for, "she is not board certified and has never actually clinically practiced medicine outside her medical school rotations"? I'd of never guessed...

And where did "surgeons and magic audio wires" come from? Try to be coherent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 32817041)
This statement displays a basic lack of understanding about the nature of public health. The point of mass vaccination has little to do one one's "individual interests."

That was exactly my point. Because of your superiority complex and superficial understanding of the topic my sarcasm went over your head. Arrogant pseudo-intellectual physicians and policy makers have been responsible for many policies for the "public good", such as this one http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/he...fect.html?_r=0. It is group think superiority complex mindset's like yours that leads to decisions and policy like that.

beastaudio 03-23-2015 06:45 AM

I knew this one was going to get ugly :D

12B4A 03-23-2015 02:50 PM

FYI, JBL will not ever sell these in a passive version without the amplifier/processing. When I was told this I was also told JBL has solid plans to make this in to a self-contained powered version.

Gooddoc 03-23-2015 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beastaudio (Post 32855137)
I knew this one was going to get ugly :D

I think, fundamentally, we agreed. :D

Gooddoc 03-23-2015 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4A (Post 32870697)
FYI, JBL will not ever sell these in a passive version without the amplifier/processing. When I was told this I was also told JBL has solid plans to make this in to a self-contained powered version.

Yeah, I was told that too, then I was told it wasn't true (re: powered). So, I guess we'll see eventually.

I'd be happy at this point if they'd just decide to sell it at all...

Zzzzz... 03-24-2015 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4A (Post 32870697)
FYI, JBL will not ever sell these in a passive version without the amplifier/processing. When I was told this I was also told JBL has solid plans to make this in to a self-contained powered version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32872025)
Yeah, I was told that too, then I was told it wasn't true (re: powered). So, I guess we'll see eventually.

I'd be happy at this point if they'd just decide to sell it at all...

Evidence that more speakers are coming: in articles, the 705i and 708i are often referred to as the first two speakers in the 7 series. Dunno, might be reading too much into the wording. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

dabotsonline 03-26-2015 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12B4A (Post 32870697)
... I was also told JBL has solid plans to make this in to a self-contained powered version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 32872025)
Yeah, I was told that too, then I was told it wasn't true (re: powered).

@12B4A and @Gooddoc , did you manage to get the names of the specific JBL reps who spoke to you?

12B4A 03-26-2015 08:41 AM

I was talking to a salesman at Sweetwater who was acting as go-between with their onsite JBL rep. SW seems to have a solid, ongoing working relationship with JBL so it seems like it's reliable info.

SyntheticShrimp 03-26-2015 10:41 AM

Why are JBL Pro dragging their feet so much with these? I am interested in a few, but not without more info.

Gooddoc 03-29-2015 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabotsonline (Post 32949641)
@12B4A and @Gooddoc , did you manage to get the names of the specific JBL reps who spoke to you?

I won't post the names of the folks who tell me things like that. They are not reps but are in the JBL organization in various capacities. The reasons I talk with these folks are related to my M2's, I only ask in passing ways about the Series 7 speakers. And clearly I have received casual answers that can't be relied upon as any kind of official statements from JBL.

ValentinR 04-16-2015 04:09 PM

i fell for that one fore a little while

Why would JBL do that

The LSR 7 series will be sold individually of course they want to match and bundle them with crown and BSS

In the studio businesses and post production it is a good idea to have a DSP to get the excellent results with every speaker in the system
Room acoustics and positioning can really screw things up and a good dsp match with excellent dispersion characteristic of the M2 and 7 series is the frosting

the new crown drive core DCI network amps have a lot of power in a very compact factor (8 x 300w 2 rack space) and you only need 1 Ethernet cable to connect between dsp and amp or amps that a lot of savings in cables and make the system easier to install

of course you may or may not like Crown amps ore BSS

i assure you will be able to buy the 7 series without the electronics

its just maketing stratergy but time will tell


here is my M2 system i just did some work on the ceiling

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7...pst7xqrjxp.jpg

NWCgrad 04-16-2015 04:21 PM

Man this thread went off tbe rails for awhile. Glad to see it made it back on track.

10dbdown 05-05-2015 11:59 AM

If anyone is interested, Full Compass has the lsr 708i in stock for $1500.00 each.

DotJun 05-30-2015 12:07 PM

IIRC on average, people only get the flu once every 5-10 years and everything else is just flu-like other things.

Anyway, back to speakers! I heard the 705i this weekend at T.H.E. Show in Newport, and I'd have to say they were the most impressive speaker I heard that day. I'm not saying they were the best, as there were some giant horns I liked better, but these were easily in the top 5 of the best I heard. I still can't believe the huge wall of sounds these little things put out!

Gooddoc 05-30-2015 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotJun (Post 34625089)
IIRC on average, people only get the flu once every 5-10 years and everything else is just flu-like other things.

Anyway, back to speakers! I heard the 705i this weekend at T.H.E. Show in Newport, and I'd have to say they were the most impressive speaker I heard that day. I'm not saying they were the best, as there were some giant horns I liked better, but these were easily in the top 5 of the best I heard. I still can't believe the huge wall of sounds these little things put out!

If only they could be purchased! ;) :)

I'm patiently waiting for my dealer to get stock. I can't decide whether to use 705's or 708's for side surround duty. I'm concerned about the output of the 705's at reference level though. Not sure why the specced them so low. They would have been better off sacrificing some of the low bass output for some more headroom IMO.

I guess if they are run active they could be tweaked for a bit higher output at the expense of bass extension.

Gooddoc 05-30-2015 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValentinR (Post 33540329)
i fell for that one fore a little while

Why would JBL do that

The LSR 7 series will be sold individually of course they want to match and bundle them with crown and BSS

In the studio businesses and post production it is a good idea to have a DSP to get the excellent results with every speaker in the system
Room acoustics and positioning can really screw things up and a good dsp match with excellent dispersion characteristic of the M2 and 7 series is the frosting

the new crown drive core DCI network amps have a lot of power in a very compact factor (8 x 300w 2 rack space) and you only need 1 Ethernet cable to connect between dsp and amp or amps that a lot of savings in cables and make the system easier to install

of course you may or may not like Crown amps ore BSS

i assure you will be able to buy the 7 series without the electronics

its just maketing stratergy but time will tell


here is my M2 system i just did some work on the ceiling

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7...pst7xqrjxp.jpg

Not sure how I missed this, but nice setup! What exactly did you do with the ceiling there? It looks like primarily diffraction? I like it and would love to do something about the ceiling with my M2's.

Also, what speakers are in the middle?

Zzzzz... 05-30-2015 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotJun (Post 34625089)
Anyway, back to speakers! I heard the 705i this weekend at T.H.E. Show in Newport, and I'd have to say they were the most impressive speaker I heard that day. I'm not saying they were the best, as there were some giant horns I liked better, but these were easily in the top 5 of the best I heard. I still can't believe the huge wall of sounds these little things put out!

Great to read your comments. Were the 705s part of a surround setup and what were they playing? Also, are the 708s there as well? I'm wondering if you heard them whether they would make it even further up your top 5 list? :)

DotJun 05-30-2015 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzzzz... (Post 34628169)
Great to read your comments. Were the 705s part of a surround setup and what were they playing? Also, are the 708s there as well? I'm wondering if you heard them whether they would make it even further up your top 5 list? :)


Nope, they took down everything and put the 705s as stereo mains to show what it could do. I was simply amazed at the quality of sound coming from these tiny speakers. I couldn't find it, but I sure hope there were subs there because I just can't image those little guys producing the bass I heard also.

There were 708s there, as well as m2's and everests, but when I showed up they had just finished putting the 705 up as mains. Btw, those amps they used were not only huge, but very intimidating visually as well!

I'm bummed that I didn't get to hear the other jbl offerings. I can only imagine what they must sound like after hearing the 705s.
@Gooddoc , I don't think they'll have problems at reference. They didn't have it quite there for the demo, but they were still playing at a good clip. If only I had more than a pair of kidneys so I could afford to get those everests.

Zzzzz... 05-31-2015 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotJun (Post 34635937)
Nope, they took down everything and put the 705s as stereo mains to show what it could do. I was simply amazed at the quality of sound coming from these tiny speakers. I couldn't find it, but I sure hope there were subs there because I just can't image those little guys producing the bass I heard also.

There were 708s there, as well as m2's and everests, but when I showed up they had just finished putting the 705 up as mains. Btw, those amps they used were not only huge, but very intimidating visually as well!

I'm bummed that I didn't get to hear the other jbl offerings. I can only imagine what they must sound like after hearing the 705s.
@Gooddoc , I don't think they'll have problems at reference. They didn't have it quite there for the demo, but they were still playing at a good clip. If only I had more than a pair of kidneys so I could afford to get those everests.

You're making the wait for these even harder :D Sounds like JBL have created some very nice speakers. I wonder what the delay is in releasing them?

Gooddoc 05-31-2015 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzzzz... (Post 34636809)
You're making the wait for these even harder :D Sounds like JBL have created some very nice speakers. I wonder what the delay is in releasing them?

They are released :). The problem is low production volume currently. The big studios have bought up all the initial production runs.

Gooddoc 05-31-2015 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotJun (Post 34635937)
Nope, they took down everything and put the 705s as stereo mains to show what it could do. I was simply amazed at the quality of sound coming from these tiny speakers. I couldn't find it, but I sure hope there were subs there because I just can't image those little guys producing the bass I heard also.

There were 708s there, as well as m2's and everests, but when I showed up they had just finished putting the 705 up as mains. Btw, those amps they used were not only huge, but very intimidating visually as well!

I'm bummed that I didn't get to hear the other jbl offerings. I can only imagine what they must sound like after hearing the 705s.
@Gooddoc , I don't think they'll have problems at reference. They didn't have it quite there for the demo, but they were still playing at a good clip. If only I had more than a pair of kidneys so I could afford to get those everests.

Thanks. Yeah, this is a tough call. I'm generally one to go on the overkill side of things when it comes to my audio and the 705 is in the "just enough" category so I'm having a hard time committing :D.

Zzzzz... 05-31-2015 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooddoc (Post 34636857)
They are released :). The problem is low production volume currently. The big studios have bought up all the initial production runs.

Well of all the possible reasons for lack of supply, this is certainly a very positive one. Looks like JBL may have misjudged demand. People who already own these or use them regularly at work need to start posting their impressions... As far as I know, to date, very little info on them has appeared on Gearslutz, for example.

Gooddoc 05-31-2015 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzzzz... (Post 34637481)
Well of all the possible reasons for lack of supply, this is certainly a very positive one. Looks like JBL may have misjudged demand. People who already own these or use them regularly at work need to start posting their impressions... As far as I know, to date, very little info on them has appeared on Gearslutz, for example.

These were initially supposed to release in January. So clearly there is some issue, whether it's supply chain or design change issues is impossible to know. But clearly there's more to it than an unanticipated demand issues. I just hope they have it all figured out at this point :).


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