JBL 705i/708i (7 Series Master Reference Monitors) & 725G/728G (subwoofers): Jan 2015 - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 03:25 PM
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Ordered two more today giving me 5x780p for the theater. I am going to redo my screen setup for the 708's, which will allow me to move the seating to 9-10ft, which is shaving off 3 feet of distance. This should give me a bit more headroom, but I rarely (if ever) listen to anything at reference, so I was probably fine before. I do run my subs pretty hot, but that doesnt matter in this equation.

Strangely, moving the seating so far forward from the original design several years ago has made my rear surrounds too far away. The back of the room where the rear surrounds is now 18' away from the MLP. I played some Atmos demo material and there is just too much separation between the rear and side surrrounds. I figured bumping the rear speaker dbs up would compensate, but it just doesn't flow well with tracks like Leaf or Amazed. When I fist did the room there was 8 feet of difference between the side and rear surrounds, which flowed nicely. Now there is a pool table where I used to sit.

Now, I have to decide if I want to do 705i's for Atmos. Sadly, I have been very underwhelmed with Atmos outside of the demo disc. I am not sure its worth the expense for the speakers and amp. I have a line on new 705i's for $500 each and eBay has used DCI 4/300 amps galore. I would still have to open the ceilings again since my old locations are completely unusable now with the new arrangement. However, 5.x.4 really does close the gap on not having rear surrounds. It is only money right

Having never heard these speakers, I hope I am not disappointed. The glowing reviews have inspired me. I bought my 4722's blind (I guess deaf would make more sense) and loved them. I am hoping fate has it happen a second time. I have missed the 4722s since they left the room, but having a game room/movie theater is a lot more practical for our family. I thought the 590s would be "good enough", but once you get used to clarity and detail at a certain level, there is no going back. They are good speakers, but I feel disappointed compared to before. I still use them downstairs and in my bedroom, but the theater room used to be *special*. When the 4722 setup left, it became *normal*. I am sure you guys know what I mean.

Anyways, thanks for answering my posts and replying to PMs.
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post #2462 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 04:23 PM
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post #2463 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 04:42 PM
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I've been pretty underwhelmed with Atmos as well but I'm guessing it's my room or the fact that my surround speakers are too high up on the side walls. Making it seem like everything is above? I don't know.
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post #2464 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Now, I have to decide if I want to do 705i's for Atmos. Sadly, I have been very underwhelmed with Atmos outside of the demo disc. I am not sure its worth the expense for the speakers and amp. I have a line on new 705i's for $500 each and eBay has used DCI 4/300 amps galore. I would still have to open the ceilings again since my old locations are completely unusable now with the new arrangement. However, 5.x.4 really does close the gap on not having rear surrounds. It is only money right
Hard to say what you would think of it, but I can tell you that the bubble you will experience with that setup is ridiculously good and likely as good as it gets. But that doesn't mean you'll like it . Atmos is what it is, and if you don't like it, then perfect execution may not make any difference. It's subtle, and meant to be that way in most instances.

In my system, the timbre match is so good that attention is typically not drawn to the ceilings since it is such a seamless transition from ear level to ceiling and just sounds so natural it's often barely noticed. It's easy to confuse it for a "great soundstage" from the ear level speakers since you can't tell where the ear levels end and the ceilings start! I guess you could compare it to a seamless speaker/sub crossover. I would say that for the most part it simply makes my room sound 3x bigger than it is. And music mixed in Atmos is a real treat, that I can tell you! Not much of it right now, but man, what potential!
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post #2465 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 06:43 PM
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@Gooddoc - Agreed. It is often subtle and when its done right it works. I have no doubt it will improve with time.
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post #2466 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 07:40 PM
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@Gooddoc - Agreed. It is often subtle and when its done right it works. I have no doubt it will improve with time.
Yep. If you buy into Atmos with the expectation that everything is going to be amazingly better, there is disappointment in your future. But if the occasional cool effect or expanded soundstage is good enough, then all is good. I just really don't expect much, and when it delivers something good I'm happy.

Recently I watched a horror flick and there was furniture being moved upstairs in the house and it was perfectly recreated by Atmos. It was like a chair was sliding around in my attic. Stuff like that makes it worth it to me, but I can understand that it's just too little for others to make it worth it. Oh, and can't forget my entire collection of 3 Atmos music remixes. Yeah, I'm easily entertained .
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post #2467 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 08:36 PM
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Yep. If you buy into Atmos with the expectation that everything is going to be amazingly better, there is disappointment in your future. But if the occasional cool effect or expanded soundstage is good enough, then all is good. I just really don't expect much, and when it delivers something good I'm happy.

Recently I watched a horror flick and there was furniture being moved upstairs in the house and it was perfectly recreated by Atmos. It was like a chair was sliding around in my attic. Stuff like that makes it worth it to me, but I can understand that it's just too little for others to make it worth it. Oh, and can't forget my entire collection of 3 Atmos music remixes. Yeah, I'm easily entertained .
What's interesting is I was watching a terrible horror movie recently with foot stomping upstairs that sounded like it was right above me. I was actually impressed with how good they did for such a bad movie... but I was watching in my bedroom, which is only 2ch.

I still haven't been convinced to update my main system to support atmos height channels, but then again my surrounds are above head level.
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post #2468 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 08:48 PM
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What's interesting is I was watching a terrible horror movie recently with foot stomping upstairs that sounded like it was right above me. I was actually impressed with how good they did for such a bad movie... but I was watching in my bedroom, which is only 2ch.

I still haven't been convinced to update my main system to support atmos height channels, but then again my surrounds are above head level.
The brain can pull all kinds of cool stunts. I had my surrounds at the wall ceiling junction for years. It was good, but nothing close to what Atmos delivers in my room IMO. But again, it all depends on what you expect for a ROI. For me it was the cost of 4 speakers and wire. All the prepros I would buy at this point have Atmos capability, so that comes free.

BTW, I'm not selling Atmos here, lol. Just talking and sharing experience .
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post #2469 of 3040 Old 11-27-2018, 08:55 PM
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The brain can pull all kinds of cool stunts. I had my surrounds at the wall ceiling junction for years. It was good, but nothing close to what Atmos delivers in my room IMO. But again, it all depends on what you expect for a ROI. For me it was the cost of 4 speakers and wire. All the prepros I would buy at this point have Atmos capability, so that comes free.

BTW, I'm not selling Atmos here, lol. Just talking and sharing experience .
It's more the effort than the cost for me. I don't feel like opening up the walls for minimal improvements. At some point I may, but who knows.
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post #2470 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 04:40 AM
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Some of the best Atmos I have heard period (on par with the demo disc I have) is Netflix "Haunting of Hill House". If you haven't seen it, its a terrific show period. Beyond that, the Atmos is to notch on multiple scenes. One of the episodes in particular (maybe #6 ) with the hauntings and the effects where superb. Might be worth viewing if you have Netflix.
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post #2471 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 05:27 AM
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I couldn't agree more with everything said. I am using relatively cheap Tannoy 6" speakers for my atmos heights, but what a pain to install. Knowing (hearing) now what I do, I might not have rushed in to do it.
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post #2472 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 07:11 AM
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do the JBL 7xx have DACs? How would you hook them up to a MacBook Pro? or you need an outboard DAC?
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post #2473 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 07:14 AM
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do the JBL 7xx have DACs? How would you hook them up to a MacBook Pro? or you need an outboard DAC?
Uh oh....someone is lurking and found this thread I am not well enough versed to answer your question. If I were to guess, I think you would need a USB audio interface from Presonus or RME to interface to the Mac.
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post #2474 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 07:20 AM
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[QUOTE=Kain;57126024] @Rex Anderson Have a question for you. Basically, with the 708i, you can use the Crown DCi 300 watt amp with a specific voltage limiter spec or the Crown DCi 600 watt amp with a higher limiter spec for more SPL. However, PostWorks in NYC is using the 708i for the LCR channels with the Crown DCi 1250 watt amp as explained here: http://www.jblpro.com/www/news/news-...7.1-nyc-stages/QUOTE]

Here is another quote from our rep who spoke with folks at JBL to get more info for you.

"No one at JBL would have recommended that power and it is not needed to maximize the benefits of the speaker. There must be some other reason that they only know. Maybe they needed one more channel of 1250 on subs and they used the other channels for LCR, maybe it was the only amp we could supply that month, or maybe someone got them a deal on that amp. It will remain a mystery as to why Postworks chose that amp. Today we would not recommend it and it is not needed to get the most out of the 708i."

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post #2475 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 07:24 AM
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Uh oh....someone is lurking and found this thread I am not well enough versed to answer your question. If I were to guess, I think you would need a USB audio interface from Presonus or RME to interface to the Mac.
yes, I use a PreSonus USB DAC to connect my 305s. I wonder if the 7xx series has better DACs than that 70 dollar PreSonus DAC... which is fine for tracking but not so great for listening.. the pacing is the worst aspect
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post #2476 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 08:24 AM
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yes, I use a PreSonus USB DAC to connect my 305s. I wonder if the 7xx series has better DACs than that 70 dollar PreSonus DAC... which is fine for tracking but not so great for listening.. the pacing is the worst aspect
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In the P series:
  • Cirrus Logic CS5361 ADC
  • ARM AT91SAM9G25 (controller)
  • SHARC ADSP-21489.
  • TI (Burr-Brown) PCM1796 DAC
If you're referring to the AudioBox USB, yeah, the DAC in the P series can do higher sampling rates and has lower noise floor.

Quote:
do the JBL 7xx have DACs? How would you hook them up to a MacBook Pro? or you need an outboard DAC?
If you're doing just stereo, I think you could use a USB to AES/EBU converter to keep it all digital to the 7xxP. Edit: if your MBP has the headphone/optical jack, you could also do S/PDIF to AES/EBU.

Molon: yeah, there is a single channel way of connecting the i series speakers.

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post #2477 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 09:41 AM
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thank you mr. 12B4A
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post #2478 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 08:09 PM
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do the JBL 7xx have DACs? How would you hook them up to a MacBook Pro? or you need an outboard DAC?

yea. using here a tascam uh-7000 (pc > usb > tascam uh-7000 > digital out (aes/ebu) > 708's dac) - but you can also use local dac w/ analog connection.

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post #2479 of 3040 Old 11-28-2018, 09:19 PM
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Can someone clarify that I only need one channel per 705i? I want to ensure I only need a 4 channel DCIn if I go Atmos.
Correct, Crown DCi 4|300N is what you would need.
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post #2480 of 3040 Old 11-29-2018, 06:33 AM
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Correct, Crown DCi 4|300N is what you would need.
The other option would be: https://bssaudio.com/en/news/bss-bss...ndon-processor
Then you can use any 4 ch. amp. I've seen used Blu-50's go for around $500.
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post #2481 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 04:11 AM
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[quote=Rex Anderson;57178772]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
@Rex Anderson Have a question for you. Basically, with the 708i, you can use the Crown DCi 300 watt amp with a specific voltage limiter spec or the Crown DCi 600 watt amp with a higher limiter spec for more SPL. However, PostWorks in NYC is using the 708i for the LCR channels with the Crown DCi 1250 watt amp as explained here: http://www.jblpro.com/www/news/news-...7.1-nyc-stages/QUOTE]

Here is another quote from our rep who spoke with folks at JBL to get more info for you.

"No one at JBL would have recommended that power and it is not needed to maximize the benefits of the speaker. There must be some other reason that they only know. Maybe they needed one more channel of 1250 on subs and they used the other channels for LCR, maybe it was the only amp we could supply that month, or maybe someone got them a deal on that amp. It will remain a mystery as to why Postworks chose that amp. Today we would not recommend it and it is not needed to get the most out of the 708i."
Thanks.
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post #2482 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad/Viper-Fan View Post
This is all I copied down from the display (actually a monitor):

JBL 708P Distance from Speaker/ Output:


3ft (1 meters) / 110dB

5ft (1.5 meters) / 107dB

7ft (2 meters) / 105dB

9ft (3 meters) / 104dB

17ft (5 meters) / 102dB



JBL 705P Distance from Speaker / Output:


3ft (1 meters) / 104dB

5ft (1.5 meters) / 101dB

7ft (2 meters) / 99dB

9ft (3 meters) / 98dB

17ft (5 meters) / 96dB


(Room Size: 75 cubic meters. Measured in half space.)
Before someone tries to kill me for asking another SPL-related question, I just want to know if the SPL figures quoted above are continuous SPL or peak SPL.
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post #2483 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Before someone tries to kill me for asking another SPL-related question, I just want to know if the SPL figures quoted above are continuous SPL or peak SPL.

Here are the specs from JBL's website: http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...ies/708i#Specs

Max SPL (80 Hz - 20 kHz) >108 dB SPL / 1m


Maximum Peak SPL (80 Hz - 20 kHz) >114 dB SPL / 1m


Some of this info you could be looking up yourself....
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post #2484 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 05:04 AM
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The first three 708ps showed up yesterday. I got the XLR cables run and everything powered up for a quick test. When I say quick, I mean a complete swag on levels with zero sub integration other than "yeah that sounds pretty close" with test tones. Simply put, I was amazed. I have missed my 4722's since they left my home. The 4722s (upgraded CD) were my favorite speakers to date, but we changed the layout of the room which put the listener to close for the 4722s to image properly. The speakers I replaced them with just left me feeling *meh*. Good speakers but not in the same league as the 4722.

I can honestly say, without hesitation, that I wont miss them anymore. The 708 is smoother up top with less bite, while still providing that edginess of a live brass horn. I could hear the wooden drum stick on the cymbal and hear the nuances of the bass player's fingers as he plucked the strings. They don't sound like the typical compression driver speaker. Imaging was off the charts. I felt the performer was right in front of me - beside me even. It had the presence of multi-channel audio. My side treatments are not up and the bare walls added a depth and realism I haven't experienced in that room. I will eventually dial the system in with Dirac Live, but I don't think I am going to treat the first reflections anymore. I really liked the presentation without them, which is surprising. It must be the secret sauce of the new JBL wave-guide/CD combo because the 4722 needed those first points treated. I also felt the sound-stage collapsed a bit with the L/R 4722s behind the screen. This forced me to have them outside the screen, which kills the "black hole" presentation during movies. The screen would light up the speakers causing distraction. The 708s just open up behind the screen beautifully. This may have been caused by the larger width of the 4722 vs the smaller 708. The three 4722's were almost touching each other. Either way, I can have my speakers behind screen now - big plus. The only gripe on that topic is the idiot who thought it was a good idea to put a LED light on the front of the speaker Thank goodness for gaffer tape. As far as output is concerned, I pushed them to the levels I normally "demo at" and they didn't break a sweat.

I could ramble on and on, but I will wrap it up. In summary, I am still a bit shocked at these speakers. I owe and @Mfusick and @John Schuermann a public apology. I was terse, dismissive, and rude in multiple conversations about the 7 series compared to the 4722 with the upgraded CDs. In my own arrogance, I even dismissed JBL engineers that stated the 708 was better suited for home theater applications. I fell into the pit of "defending what I own" mentality. I still think the 4722 is a tremendous speaker at it's price point for those who have the space for it and need the output. However, the 708 is more refined and elegant sounding. I hope you guys (and others) accept my apology.

I am now seriously eyeballing the M2, but from what I have read the differences are very minimal when the 708s are crossed to subs. No doubt they are better, but are we in the realm of quick diminishing returns between the two if additional output isn't required?

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post #2485 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 05:29 AM
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I am now seriously eyeballing the M2, but from what I have read the differences are very minimal when the 708s are crossed to subs. No doubt they are better, but are we in the realm of quick diminishing returns between the two if additional output isn't required?
I had a similar thought as well when I first had my 705s. Something along the line of "boy, these'd be perfect if the woofer was a 15." @Gooddoc has commented many times about what happens when you move up the line to the M2 and he can do a better job of 'splaining himself than me.

Personally, I'm expecting they'll eventually put the 7 series dsp/amp pans in an M2 cabinet and when I have a larger space, they'd be my first choice.
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post #2486 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post

I am now seriously eyeballing the M2, but from what I have read the differences are very minimal when the 708s are crossed to subs. No doubt they are better, but are we in the realm of quick diminishing returns between the two if additional output isn't required?
I didn't quote the other part of your post since no surprise there . Wait until you surround yourself with the 705's on the ceiling .

As to the M2's, all I can say is that the second I can replace my 708 center channel with an M2, it will be done. As well, as far as I can tell, folks with subs aren't running out to replace their M2's with 708's .

There is something special about the M2's, and it's actually hard for me to put a finger on it. But they're smoother up top with less bite, if that sounds familiar .
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post #2487 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Are you crossing to a sub?
Yeah, two Rythmik L12's in a 10x12 room. I think everything is right-sized for my situation until I find/build a house equipped with a small auditorium.

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post #2488 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Agreed, the M2 is obviously the superior speaker. And yes, M2 owners are not replacing them with 708s. However, the 708 was not out when the M2 hit the market. I am curious if given the choice between a 708/sub comb for "x" price vs the M2 at "ouch" price would they have made the same choice. The M2 had no competition that was "close" when it landed. People rarely go backwards once they own something. I am just curious if any current M2 owners would have taken door #2 plus cash in the pocket if it were available at the time of purchase. Either way, I will probably be on the lookout for some used M2s. If the price is right, I will bite. If paying retail, I am close enough with the 708s
I can only speak for myself, but as I said, I will be purchasing an M2 to replace my current 708 center. The 708 has had a couple of years to convince me that I shouldn't.
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post #2489 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I am just trying to save myself some coin - work with me I can swing the costs, but the wife would not be pleased. My biggest concern are the amps. We plan to sell this place when the last kids finish up with school. Having to contend with those noisy amps could be problematic especially not knowing what the next floor plan will be.

The 4367 may be more suited to my current setup and uncertain future home realities. @beastaudio should be due for his speaker upgrade about now, maybe I can score a used set
I can score you a set but they will absolutely not be mine Haven't been this content with my setup in quite a long time...and the mains are the keystone to all of that.

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post #2490 of 3040 Old 11-30-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I didn't quote the other part of your post since no surprise there . Wait until you surround yourself with the 705's on the ceiling .

As to the M2's, all I can say is that the second I can replace my 708 center channel with an M2, it will be done. As well, as far as I can tell, folks with subs aren't running out to replace their M2's with 708's .

There is something special about the M2's, and it's actually hard for me to put a finger on it. But they're smoother up top with less bite, if that sounds familiar .
To me, the 708s still have a hint of that box speaker sound where the M2 is completely transparent. I know that is also BS audiophile speak, but there is something in the 708, a resonance or something, that the M2 doesn't have.
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