JBL 705i/708i (7 Series Master Reference Monitors) & 725G/728G (subwoofers): Jan 2015 - Page 91 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2701 of 2931 Old 04-12-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Palewing View Post
It is what it is. I've had them for a year and a half now. I like the general sound of the speakers, despite this issue. So I'll just have to live with it for now.

But I don't think I would invest in 708Ps later unless I got rid of this issue first, somehow.

I have 7 708P in a small room and don't hear any noise from the couch and slight hiss with my ear to them. When I switched to digital AES the hiss was still present but noticeably quieter than with analog coming from my SDP-75.

My previous system ( JBL 3 series with XLR) had a louder more noticeable hiss from the LP and when using my HTPC with hdmi to a Marantz 8802a I had a very noticeable hum when playing games or using madvr. That went away when I swapped out to the SDP-75.

My only issue with the 708ps has been silence from the speakers after going out of town for a week. To fix this I had to power cycle them. Perhaps they have a built in sleep mode.

Are you able to record the whine and post it for us to listen too, it might help us troubleshoot the issue. Have you tried taking them to someone else's house and seeing if the behavior is similar?

It a shame your having these problems they are fantastic speakers, cant say enough good about em.
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post #2702 of 2931 Old 04-13-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by forin View Post
Are you able to record the whine and post it for us to listen too, it might help us troubleshoot the issue. Have you tried taking them to someone else's house and seeing if the behavior is similar?

It a shame your having these problems they are fantastic speakers, cant say enough good about em.
Here is a file with 12khz highpass /48dB rolloff, obviously quite boosted. And I have not tried it anywhere else, no.
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Audio Gear: Sennheiser HD 800 & HD 650, SPL Phonitor, Abrahamsen V6.0 DAC, JBL 705Ps, Arendal 1723 Subwoofer 1.
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post #2703 of 2931 Old 04-13-2019, 06:54 AM
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After playing your file and then listening to my 705Ps with no signal, I can say that same noise is coming from the woofers of all 5 of my 705s. However, I need to have my ear right up against the grill and angled a bit to hear it. I am not displeased but for your unusual sensitivity, it would be relatively minor fix of putting a larger coil in series to the output of the woofer. It looks like JBL just wrapped the speaker wire around a ferrite core on it's way to the woofer so maybe another wrap or three around the core would do the trick. Unfortunately, it would involve some minor surgery and deft fingers to avoid cutting and resoldering...
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post #2704 of 2931 Old 04-13-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
After playing your file and then listening to my 705Ps with no signal, I can say that same noise is coming from the woofers of all 5 of my 705s. However, I need to have my ear right up against the grill and angled a bit to hear it. I am not displeased but for your unusual sensitivity, it would be relatively minor fix of putting a larger coil in series to the output of the woofer. It looks like JBL just wrapped the speaker wire around a ferrite core on it's way to the woofer so maybe another wrap or three around the core would do the trick. Unfortunately, it would involve some minor surgery and deft fingers to avoid cutting and resoldering...
I won't mess with the internals of the speakers now, but maybe that's something I will do at a later point. But yeah, I can hear the noise more than a meter away. If the room was quieter, I'm sure I would hear it at 2 meters as well. It's annoying that JBL took such a meaningless shortcut.

Audio Gear: Sennheiser HD 800 & HD 650, SPL Phonitor, Abrahamsen V6.0 DAC, JBL 705Ps, Arendal 1723 Subwoofer 1.

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post #2705 of 2931 Old 04-14-2019, 11:24 AM
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It's annoying that JBL took such a meaningless shortcut.
A little bit off-topic, but you'll be very surprised how fast such small shortcuts stack on top of each other and start to cut costs quite a bit.
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post #2706 of 2931 Old 04-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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FYI: John Schuermann is holding a projector shootout April 27 and 28 and is also having a HT party Friday night (the 26th) at his place. This is a good chance to check out his SCL2 based Synthesis theater and the Revel Salon2s. It’s not a sales event, just a friendly get together. He just finalized the details for the event. All of the following projectors will be there for the shootout and Kris Deering will be on hand to calibrate and co-host.

Sony VPL-VW995ES - Sony's laser projector with the ARC-F lens, MSRP $34999
Sony VPL-VW695ES - Sony's most popular 4K model on the AVS Forum, MSRP $9999
JVC DLA-RS3000 - JVC's top of the line bulb based projector with premium lens and 8K upconversion, MSRP $17999
JVC DLA-RS2000 - JVC's middle of the line 4K projector and most popular on the AVS Forum, MSRP $7999

WHAT: A chance to compare the top 4K projectors in the industry under controlled conditions, with Special Guests:

Kris Deering (Deep Dive AV, Sound and Vision)
Chris Deutsch (JVC)
Russell Warnhoff (Kaleidescape)
Adam Fleckles (Denver area Sony Rep)
Shawn Kelly (Panamorph - tentative)
Craig Rounds (CIR Engineering)

All projectors will be calibrated by Kris Deering, with possible assistance from Craig. While the AVS Forum has given me permission to post about the event, this is NOT an AVS Forum sponsored event. This is an educational event only, NOT a sales event, and everyone is welcome.

WHEN: April 27th and 28th, 2019, 1-6 pm, with a tentative "pre-party" and get-together the evening of Friday, April 26 6-9 pm probably at my house. Friday night would be an opportunity to hear a JBL Synthesis Immersive Surround System, plus our Speaker Shootout Winner the Revel Salon2, plus see the JVC DLA-RS3000 in action.

As mentioned, Sound and Vision technical editor and calibrator extraordinaire Kris Deering will be in town to properly set up all the projectors for the event. Depending on his schedule, he may also be available to calibrate your own personal display during his stay.

Details and dates:

Pre-Event Party and Get-Together:

Friday night, April 26, 6-9 pm
Location TBD

Projector Expo / Shootout:

Session 1: Saturday, April 27, 1-6 pm
Session 2: Sunday, April 28, 1-6 pm

LOCATION:

525 N. Cascade Ave, Colorado Springs CO 80903

We will be using a Stewart StudioTek130 screen in a light controlled room.

HE IS EXPECTING A LARGE NUMBER OF ATTENDEES. PLEASE LET HIM KNOW ASAP if you want to attend. You can RSVP by PM'ing John here at the AVS Forum or by sending him an email at: [email protected]

ABOUT KRIS DEERING, SPECIAL GUEST AND CALIBRATOR:

Kris Deering has been involved in the Home Theater industry in many capacities. He is currently a writer/technical editor for Sound and Vision magazine and a calibrator and consultant through his own company, Deep Dive AV. He has also been a writer and editor for various other publications, both in print and online, including Home Theater magazine and Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity. Kris has done work for some of the biggest names in the AV industry, offering a wide range of services including calibration, product development, product testing and training. Many of you know of him already thanks to his major contributions to this forum.
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post #2707 of 2931 Old 04-14-2019, 05:18 PM
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It’s worth repeating this is NOT a sales event.

You can’t make a sledge hammer look like a feather duster.

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post #2708 of 2931 Old 04-14-2019, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palewing View Post
I won't mess with the internals of the speakers now, but maybe that's something I will do at a later point. But yeah, I can hear the noise more than a meter away. If the room was quieter, I'm sure I would hear it at 2 meters as well. It's annoying that JBL took such a meaningless shortcut.
Listened to the file and none of my 708s exhibit that type of noise, neither did my 308 and 305. Maybe something in your electric grid is causing it to be more pronounced, I would try plugging them in at a friends house and see if there is any difference. I have 7 708ps pointed at my head in a small room and I hear no hiss what so ever. If that noise is pronounced at your LP then something is wrong and I would try and get an exchange.
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post #2709 of 2931 Old 04-14-2019, 10:35 PM
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Anyone have any in-ceiling speaker recommendations that will match the M2's & 708i. I would have liked to use SCL-4's for inwalls instead of the 708i's but at twice the price they were already out off my budget as well as the SCL-3'.

Its going to be for a new build next year so just looking for recommendations at the moment.


Thanks
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Well I do need them to be flush with the ceiling but that doesn't necessarily preclude me from using the 705i's and I already have these on my list. I'll be building a 2 story home in Florida so in typical cases the engineered floor trusts are 16" deep to accommodate HVAC runs. So it definitely wouldn't be a problem to mount the 705's flush with the ceiling within a 3 or 4 layer noise isolated back box, which means that I could also accommodate the JBL 328c's even with that ugly transformer it has mounted to it. The control 328 is definitely a product of the engineering team I don't think any designer had a hand in producing that. but according to the specs its a very capable speaker.
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Yes please do, I'm thinking well ahead of time and have until the middle of 2019 before I need to start ordering what I don't already have.
Better late than never. As someone who installed the JBL Control 328C's in a 7.2.4 Atmos set up, I've had some time to listen to some content. I don't have anything to compare them against but I am constantly blown away with the Atmos sound along with the 708i's doing front duty and 705i's for surround. I highly recommend them if you have the ceiling space. I bought mine with the back boxes and grilles.

JVC DLA-N7 | Screen Research ClearPix 4K 130" 2.40 | Pioneer VSX-LX503 | Crown DCi 8|300N | 7.2.4 JBL 708i(3)+705i(4); JBL Control 328C (Atmos); Subwoofer Syzygy SLF-870 x 2 | Ferco seating
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post #2710 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott KL View Post
Better late than never. As someone who installed the JBL Control 328C's in a 7.2.4 Atmos set up, I've had some time to listen to some content. I don't have anything to compare them against but I am constantly blown away with the Atmos sound along with the 708i's doing front duty and 705i's for surround. I highly recommend them if you have the ceiling space. I bought mine with the back boxes and grilles.


Thanks for your feedback. Glad that you like Control 328’s. I might still have the opportunity to try a pair of the 328’s though I’m currently leaning towards ceiling mounted 705’s. Still have a little time before I need to make up my mind.


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Thanks for your feedback. Glad that you like Control 328’s. I might still have the opportunity to try a pair of the 328’s though I’m currently leaning towards ceiling mounted 705’s. Still have a little time before I need to make up my mind. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Dr. Toole says it's best to have direct response, aim speakers at the listener. If you do in ceiling, look at the Revel C763L, they are used by a lot of audio for video mix engineers.
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post #2712 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 07:33 AM
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@andyc56
Have you managed to make it work with your JBLs?
Yes, but this only makes sense if your only source for audio and video is a PC.
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post #2713 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 08:15 AM
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Yes, but this only makes sense if your only source for audio and video is a PC.
Thank you.
This is exactly my case. Even if it wasn't I would've just bought RME Fireface (or any other good audio interface) and used my PC as DSP processor anyway.
These filters are exactly what is needed or there was some correction after?

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Thank you.
This is exactly my case. Even if it wasn't I would've just bought RME Fireface (or any other good audio interface) and used my PC as DSP processor anyway.
These filters are exactly what is needed or there was some correction after?
They are just the filters taken from the Harman software screen captured in this post, converted to the form expected by Equalizer APO. Using Equalizer APO requires that the sound device have WDM drivers that can be used to make the device the Windows default sound device. Below is a screen shot using the Tascam US-16x08 USB device. I use an 8-channel Parasound analog preamp after the Tascam to get remote volume control - expensive and overkill.


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post #2715 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 09:30 AM
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They are just the filters taken from the Harman software screen captured in this post, converted to the form expected by Equalizer APO. Using Equalizer APO requires that the sound device have WDM drivers that can be used to make the device the Windows default sound device. Below is a screen shot using the Tascam US-16x08 USB device. I use an 8-channel Parasound analog preamp after the Tascam to get remote volume control - expensive and overkill.

I'll be using Linux most probably, so everything will be much easier in terms of how to integrate EQs (and other effects, if needed).

I just needed info if these filters are absolutely correct (I've "decoded" files from JBL website too, but maybe there is some other info missing, needed a confirmation for that). Not sure which speakers to buy yet, so knowing I can use these speakers without extra expenses is nice.

Can you please point to some resource where I can find formulas for converting various definitions of Q?
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post #2716 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 09:35 AM
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Can you please point to some resource where I can find formulas for converting various definitions of Q?
https://www.andyc.diy-audio-engineer...ameters-1.html

Edit: Fixed broken links to RBJ documents

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post #2717 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 04:17 PM
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OK, I feel stupid asking this but I am at a loss

PLEASE! Can someone tell me how I use my new BSS BLU-50 to load the 708i tunings I downloaded

There is literally no information on how this is done, I have spent a full night searching, trying both Audio Architect and London Architect and I have got absolutely nowhere!

Setting up the DCi amp in Audio Architect was a breeze, also fully documented.

I've made my cables and sat ready to go with the BSS BLU-50 but don't have a clue how a Macro tuning file relates to Audio Architect, nowhere tells me where it's loaded, or how, or how I assign it to an output, tearing my hair out and all I can find is another post of another user who can't work it out either after all the searching.

Someone must know, if you do I would greatly appreciate a nudge in the right direction here. Everything's wired correctly but I am stuck on software

Thanks
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post #2718 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 08:06 PM
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OK, I feel stupid asking this but I am at a loss

PLEASE! Can someone tell me how I use my new BSS BLU-50 to load the 708i tunings I downloaded

There is literally no information on how this is done, I have spent a full night searching, trying both Audio Architect and London Architect and I have got absolutely nowhere!

Setting up the DCi amp in Audio Architect was a breeze, also fully documented.

I've made my cables and sat ready to go with the BSS BLU-50 but don't have a clue how a Macro tuning file relates to Audio Architect, nowhere tells me where it's loaded, or how, or how I assign it to an output, tearing my hair out and all I can find is another post of another user who can't work it out either after all the searching.

Someone must know, if you do I would greatly appreciate a nudge in the right direction here. Everything's wired correctly but I am stuck on software

Thanks
Hey Dominic,

I use a blu 160 for my 705i surrounds. First, you have to use the London software as the Audio Architect does not accept the tuning macro.

In the London software load in the jbl tuning macro. You can then use that macro in the blu 50 module. You will need to wire a macro for each input to output.

Hopefully that helps.
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post #2719 of 2931 Old 04-15-2019, 08:28 PM
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The jbl macro file must be put in the “my macros” folder under your documents folder. It should then show under the “processing objects” folder in the hardware section in London. Here is a screen shot that shows how your blu 50 could be wired.

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post #2720 of 2931 Old 04-16-2019, 02:01 AM
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Hey Dominic,

I use a blu 160 for my 705i surrounds. First, you have to use the London software as the Audio Architect does not accept the tuning macro.

In the London software load in the jbl tuning macro. You can then use that macro in the blu 50 module. You will need to wire a macro for each input to output.

Hopefully that helps.
Thanks so much for this!

Well for one I was using the wrong app, as I was used to Audio Architect I had been using that

I think I pretty much got it now then, I am going to get it all up and running properly when I get back from work

Neophite, you are a life saver, I am new to the Harman software and I literally didn't have a clue, so thanks for taking the time, and even the screenshot much appreciated!
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post #2721 of 2931 Old 04-16-2019, 07:35 AM
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@neophite - What hardware is needed for this? I would love to get away from the noisy fans of the DCI amps but I am unsure what to buy. I see these on eBay but they all have different cards. Would you mind posting or sending me a PM with a quick buyer's guide synopsis?
I believe the JBL manual lists the BLU modules that you can use.

If you wish to use an amplifier other than the two Crown I-Tech models specified above, you must also use the BSS Soundweb™ London BLU-800, BLU-160 or BLU-80 signal processor to provide the Omnidrive HD processing required by the M2. (A list of recommended M2 system components can be found in the downloads section at www.jblpro.com/M2.)

That said, if you find one with analogue cards, that's likely what you need.

That being said, I had a BLU processor I ended up selling because I never could figure it out. Looks like the help above would've got me there. Just know that there is a small fan in the BLU processor. Not quite as noisy, but not silent at all either.
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post #2722 of 2931 Old 04-16-2019, 07:42 AM
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Thanks for the above. I thought the little 50 model was passive. What model did you own?
I think had the 80 which I believe is now discontinued. That's been a few years ago now.
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post #2723 of 2931 Old 04-16-2019, 07:42 AM
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Anyone knows what is sensitivity of 708i/705i and how impedance curve of these speakers looks like?
I can't find figures from JBL, and I am not sure if making approximations from their limiter in Crown unit and posted max SPL figures is good for that.
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post #2724 of 2931 Old 04-16-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
@neophite - What hardware is needed for this? I would love to get away from the noisy fans of the DCI amps but I am unsure what to buy. I see these on eBay but they all have different cards. Would you mind posting or sending me a PM with a quick buyer's guide synopsis?
PM sent but I will also post it here for others:

Yep, the BSS stuff is a bit confusing at first due to so many options. I did try a dci amp at first with fan mods and all but it was still too loud in my theater.

For the BSS units, you need one analog input and one analog output for each channel. For the 705i and 708i single wire, that would be one channel for each speaker. For the M2s, you would need two channels, one for the compression driver and one for the mid/bass. All connections are phoenix based, just like the back of the 708 series. I made XLR to phoenix cables to connect from my 8805.

First up would be the BLU-50. It has 4 channels in and out and has no fans. With the 4 channels you could use this for your atmos speakers. You can add more BLU-50 units to expand the number of channels or go with a BLU-100 with 8 channels, but that starts to introduce a small fan. (see below).

Another option for 8 channels, you could go with the BLU-160 with 2 analog input cards and 2 analog output cards. Each card has 4 connections. The BLU-160 does have fans, but i have solved that issue by disconnecting the fans and removing the lid. I then leave a few slots open in my rack above this unit for airflow. I put a perforated blank off panel in front of the blank space for good looks .

Programming is quite easy as you download the London tuning from the JBL site and run the London software to wiring them up.

I have 705i speakers as surround and 4 as atmos, so I am using the BLU-160 connected to a crown CT8150...no fans . My front three channels are 708Ps.
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post #2725 of 2931 Old 04-17-2019, 06:17 AM
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PM sent but I will also post it here for others:

Yep, the BSS stuff is a bit confusing at first due to so many options. I did try a dci amp at first with fan mods and all but it was still too loud in my theater.

For the BSS units, you need one analog input and one analog output for each channel. For the 705i and 708i single wire, that would be one channel for each speaker. For the M2s, you would need two channels, one for the compression driver and one for the mid/bass. All connections are phoenix based, just like the back of the 708 series. I made XLR to phoenix cables to connect from my 8805.

First up would be the BLU-50. It has 4 channels in and out and has no fans. With the 4 channels you could use this for your atmos speakers. You can add more BLU-50 units to expand the number of channels or go with a BLU-100 with 8 channels, but that starts to introduce a small fan. (see below).

Another option for 8 channels, you could go with the BLU-160 with 2 analog input cards and 2 analog output cards. Each card has 4 connections. The BLU-160 does have fans, but i have solved that issue by disconnecting the fans and removing the lid. I then leave a few slots open in my rack above this unit for airflow. I put a perforated blank off panel in front of the blank space for good looks .


Programming is quite easy as you download the London tuning from the JBL site and run the London software to wiring them up.


I have 705i speakers as surround and 4 as atmos, so I am using the BLU-160 connected to a crown CT8150...no fans . My front three channels are 708Ps.

Kudos, remarkably well done. Only issue I see is the potential need for higher power per channel to drive M2's. Find higher power amps with no fans and you're good to go. ATI makes very good amps, NC and AB.
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post #2726 of 2931 Old 04-17-2019, 09:13 AM
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Just in case somebody else tries this; The BSS-160 units will not output audio without all 4 card slots populated by boards.

It is not cost effective to buy an empty processor and populate it by buying the corresponding input/output boards. Used, populated processors come up for sale quite often at affordable prices.



Fan noise of the BSS 100/160/800 processors can be solved by placing a 200mm, quiet, pancake fan on top of the unit and disconnecting the 4 fans that come with the units. This is what I have done with my SDEC-3500.
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post #2727 of 2931 Old 04-20-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neophite View Post
PM sent but I will also post it here for others:

Yep, the BSS stuff is a bit confusing at first due to so many options. I did try a dci amp at first with fan mods and all but it was still too loud in my theater.

For the BSS units, you need one analog input and one analog output for each channel. For the 705i and 708i single wire, that would be one channel for each speaker. For the M2s, you would need two channels, one for the compression driver and one for the mid/bass. All connections are phoenix based, just like the back of the 708 series. I made XLR to phoenix cables to connect from my 8805.

First up would be the BLU-50. It has 4 channels in and out and has no fans. With the 4 channels you could use this for your atmos speakers. You can add more BLU-50 units to expand the number of channels or go with a BLU-100 with 8 channels, but that starts to introduce a small fan. (see below).

Another option for 8 channels, you could go with the BLU-160 with 2 analog input cards and 2 analog output cards. Each card has 4 connections. The BLU-160 does have fans, but i have solved that issue by disconnecting the fans and removing the lid. I then leave a few slots open in my rack above this unit for airflow. I put a perforated blank off panel in front of the blank space for good looks .

Programming is quite easy as you download the London tuning from the JBL site and run the London software to wiring them up.

I have 705i speakers as surround and 4 as atmos, so I am using the BLU-160 connected to a crown CT8150...no fans . My front three channels are 708Ps.
Glad to see that you are enjoying the 708's. I am thinking about going with a different surround for my 4429's down the road and might look at the 705's if I don't go with an inwall speaker...
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post #2728 of 2931 Old 04-21-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
They are just the filters taken from the Harman software screen captured in this post,


Which are wrong. If that’s what you’re using you’re effectively listening to a different speaker than the 7-Series.

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post #2729 of 2931 Old 04-21-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Which are wrong. If that’s what you’re using you’re effectively listening to a different speaker than the 7-Series.
You don't know WTF you're talking about.
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post #2730 of 2931 Old 04-21-2019, 10:37 AM
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You don't know WTF you're talking about.
You wanna show us measurements of your setup using those filters?

Surely one cannot be so breathtakingly ignorant as to believe a compression driver on a waveguide mounted on a narrow baffle can be so flat without fairly extensive EQ!

The fact of the matter is that the true target curve (which I have measured out of a BSS processor and am currently viewing - I will not share because I have no reason to expose Harman IP) has multiple filters correcting both peaks and dips from 700-16k Hz, within a window of roughly 9dB.

Perhaps your ears have insufficient resolution to hear the uneven and inaccurate response* (think swings of ~7.5dB just from ~1.5kHz to ~3.5kHz) that will result from using those settings, but that does not change the underlying reality.

*I have not compared the settings you posted to measured reality, so I make no statement as to the accuracy of the posted settings from ~700Hz down. However, the fact that no EQ at all is shown above 700Hz should make it obvious to anyone with a rudimentary grasp of acoustics that the alleged EQ settings are at best incomplete.
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Last edited by DS-21; 04-21-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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