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post #1 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Cable recommendetions

Hello

I am looking for an speaker cable upgrade for my Revel performa F206 and Mcintosh ma6900.

I have been thinking to get the Kimber 8TC or some audioquest.

At the moment i am using QED anniversary. Cheap but good.
I have tried the Van den hul Magnum hybrid. But that on i did not like.

Any suggestions?

Regards From Sweden
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post #2 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 02:43 AM
 
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Give me your money then I'll give you "expensive" (coated with fairy dust and chippings of horn of a unicorn) 10 AWG speaker cable.

Buy any 10 AWG speaker cable, that is plenty thick enough.
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post #3 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 05:19 AM
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This is good stuff. Add some banana plugs or spades and you're off and running.

http://www.performanceaudio.com/item...14-gauge-/535/
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post #4 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perolav View Post
Any suggestions?
  • Stop listening to cable salesmen and cable reviews
  • Read the many blind cable tests - starting here
  • Buy the cheapest pure copper cable
  • Look here for the gauge you need
  • Spend the money you saved on a nice dinner or two with the wife
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post #5 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 05:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
  • Stop listening to cable salesmen and cable reviews
  • Read the many blind cable tests - starting here
  • Buy the cheapest pure copper cable
  • Look here for the gauge you need
  • Spend the money you saved on a nice dinner or two with the wife
+1. There is no such thing as a cable 'upgrade'.
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post #6 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 06:03 AM
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Cable recommendetions

semi OT: instead of buying pricey subwoofer cable, i use/made a DIY MIC cable as sub cable. Is it safe? will there be a SQ difference VS Monster or Mediabridge SW cable? ( used it on my SVS PB12 NSD )..
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post #7 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 06:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
will there be a SQ difference VS Monster or Mediabridge SW cable?
No.
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post #8 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 06:47 AM
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+1 on all the other replies. I run a McIntosh MC402 to a pair of Revel Salon2's using in-wall monoprice 12 gauge cable. If you want to get fancier, go to Blue Jeans Cable online and pick up some cables there, which I use with my Sunfire Signature Seven + Avalon Symbols. The Avalons are in my family room, i.e. more visible; my Revels are in my dedicated theater, so everything's hidden more. Pure audio bliss in either room (okay, the Revels moreso, but in addition to them being simply better speakers, it's a treated room, too). Don't fall for the marketing hype. Listen to the music, not the equipment.

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post #9 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 07:50 AM
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post #10 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 08:05 AM
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Look at Audio Art as potential source for your cables. Well made, great service. Not too terrible expensive. I use them for my front speakers and interconnects. I use a Signal Cables for my surround. and Blue Jean for my sub. There are loads and loads of cable companies. Whatever cables you choose may make difference and they may not. Doesn't matter. It is your system. Have fun with it to include the cables. It is part of the fun of this hobby. My Timex keeps as good as time as my Seiko. Yet the Seiko costs 5X as much. I wear both.
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post #11 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 03:51 PM
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As you can see, you have opened a very sour can of worms. Cables are probably one of the most hotly debated subject on forum around the world.

Some will tell you that common garden variety figure-8 twin lead wire is as good as it gets. Others will swear that their high end cables make a tremendous difference.

I take a more middle of the road approach. I think the budget for all cables and wire should be about 5% of the cost of the system. Notice I said Budget, not spend. The 5% sets a reasonably bounded framework. From there you can spend more or less as you please. Also note the most shops and most salesmen will tell you you need to spend 10% to 20% on cable, so relative to that I am still restrained.

The Revel Performa F206 are about $1500 each or $3000 total.

I don't have a price on the McIntosh MA-6900 but I found a used one for about $4500, so I'm guessing the original price was about $6000 (just a guess).

So, let's say your overall system is about $12,000; 5% of that is $600. But I assume you have money into RCA cables and other misc cables. So, let's best guess $300 to $400 remaining for cables.

Since you didn't give us a budget, I have to assume the budget above. Further you have not give us Length and the type of Terminations you prefer. If Banana Plugs, I would consider Locking Banana Plugs.

Others will vehemently say that this method is wrong, all the while running around in endless circular argument that lead no where. I'm not here to debate the merits of cables, rather to simply help you find something that suits your needs.

Also, keep in mind a large part is cosmetic, though that is a legitimate reason to like and buy a cable.

The Kimber Kable 8TC are the equivalent of 9ga wire. I'm not sure how powerful your amp is, but I suspect it is not powerful enough to demand 9ga wire.

A quick sample wire pair of Kimber 8TC, 8ft were about $460. The Kimber are LITZ wire, several individually insulated wire woven into a bundle.

I would suspect that the Kimber 4TC is the equivalent of 13ga wire and would probably be adequate for a vast majority of people. This would be about $275 for an 8ft pair terminated with banana plugs.

Audioquest Rocket 33
for an 8ft pair with Silver Banana Plugs on each end are $300.

If you like the QED Anniversary (though you aren't clear on specifically which model). I assume this is the cable -

http://www.qed.co.uk/speaker_cables/..._xt_cable.html

The latest QED Reference Series Cable is the XT400 X-Tube design which is the equivalent of 12ga speaker wire -

http://www.qed.co.uk/speaker_cables/...400_cable.html

I'm not sure where you get QED cable in the USA. I can find price in the UK, but it seems well under your implied budget. I think we are talking about £100 per 8ft cable. I'm going to guess that that is $150 per 8ft cable.

Audioquest is a very straight forward cable. The Kimber is a unique woven Litz were model. The Litz wire could potentially be a problem simply based on the fact that it is slightly exotic, though they this is very popular, so it must function reasonably well.

I think rather than endless circular debates that lead no where, we should simply try to help this guy find some wire that meets his needs and his budget.

Other options are Cardas, WireWorld, and other.

I think, overall, Audioquest is a pretty safe bet.

But then .... that's just my opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #12 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
  • Spend the money you saved on a nice dinner or two with the wife
With the money saved over some cable brands you can take a nice vacation!
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With the money saved over some cable brands you can take a nice vacation!
Like in Cannes, where you'll likely run into cable crooks who can afford to live there thanks to their obscene profit margins.
OP, don't spend more than a dollar a foot. It won't make a bit of difference if you spend $10 a foot, or $100 for that matter.
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post #14 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 07:18 PM
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^^^Geez, maybe I should get into the cable biz. Lot's of rich people around here who like locally produced stuff!

In fact a friend of mine picked up a pair of Mission 976(?, I couldn't find them on the 'tubes) speakers which had 50 feet of garden hose sized bi-wire cables attached to them. $50 at Salvation Army. They work and sound great, but the fool who owned them (a similar model was $1K/pair in the early 90's) must have spent almost as much on the cables as he did on the speakers!

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post #15 of 128 Old 02-08-2015, 07:28 PM
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Speaker wire

No matter what you put over the copper( some heavier jackets may protect it better if your driving forklifts over it).........
Copper is still ......just copper.....I agree with an earlier post.... don't pay more than a buck a foot

Greatest hobby ever!
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post #16 of 128 Old 02-10-2015, 06:55 PM
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Most of the chatter is not helping the Original Poster solve his problem.

If you feel he should take a different path, then explain that alternate path and the merits of that choice. Just complaining in general and making sarcastic remarks is not helpful or productive.

I will make one additional point on the nature of speaker wire and cables in general. If the cost of wire and cable is getting so high, it is compromising the equipment, they I think you are far better off buying better equipment and lesser cable.

To illustrate -

Which do you imagine would sound better, a $500 amp with $500 wire, or a $900 amp with $100 wire?

I'm betting the $900 amps is going to sound better. All other things being equal.

That's perhaps an illustration of extremes, but I think it can be shifted down to a finer scale.

With a $12,000 system, you have to ask if $300 to $500/pr cables are the place where you will get the most benefit? If you feel the benefit, whether real or perceived, is worth the money, then fine.

Myself, if I had a $12,000 system, I would certainly buy good cable and wire for it, a decision that I don't have to justify to anyone. However, I would still stay reasonably restrained.

In a somewhat recent survey of what people paid for cable and wire relative to the cost of their systems, most were in the 3% to 5% range. Others we down in the factional percent ranges. They had very expensive systems, and bought the cheapest, yet still quality, wire and cable they could find. Still others paid as much are 25% of their system price on wire and cable. But again, most were in the 3% to 5% range. Myself I have about 4% in wire and cable on a modest cost system.

I wish those disputing high price wire would make alternate suggestions, and justify those suggestions with logical arguments.

A fair discussion of speaker wire in general occurred here -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...er-brands.html

Though it doesn't address the current issue, it does discussion the general properties of speaker wire.

And it leads to this link, where a guy made his own fancy cables from basic speaker wire -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...nd-cables.html

Just to give you and idea, here is a video on making your own speaker cables, which can produce good results as well as good appearance.


Get what you want, but at the same time, don't get too carried away.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #17 of 128 Old 02-11-2015, 05:23 AM
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Most of the chatter is not helping the Original Poster solve his problem.
Several recommendations have already been made, this isn't something that requires a wall of text to solve.

Quote:
If you feel he should take a different path, then explain that alternate path and the merits of that choice. Just complaining in general and making sarcastic remarks is not helpful or productive.
Refer to this post.

I think you are going about this the wrong way. What you spend on speaker wire is not determined by what your system costs, it's determined by what it will cost to get the job done. Getting sound from the amplifier to the speakers is an objective goal, once it's achieved there is no other beneft. Monoprice wire will get the job done as well as anything from Kimber or Audioquest, there isn't a need to spend more. You can buy some nice terminated cables from Blue Jeans cable if you want something premade, and yes DIY is a good way to make something that looks nice.
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post #18 of 128 Old 02-11-2015, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
To illustrate -

Which do you imagine would sound better, a $500 amp with $500 wire, or a $900 amp with $100 wire?

I'm betting the $900 amps is going to sound better. All other things being equal.



Steve/bluewizard
I'm betting that there would be no audible difference in a $10, $100 or $500 wire.
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post #19 of 128 Old 02-11-2015, 05:51 AM
 
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hehehehe

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Scroll down HAHAHA
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Mikro Brilliant Pebbles on Interconnects
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post #20 of 128 Old 02-11-2015, 04:47 PM
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I'm betting that there would be no audible difference in a $10, $100 or $500 wire.
The wire isn't the point.

The real question is, would a $900 amp be better than a $500 amp?

Further, you missed the point of the illustration.

If you are spending so much money on wire and cable that it is compromising the quality if your equipment, you are spending too much money on wire and cable.

So, a $900 amp with $100 cable (all cable and wire) is better than a $500 amp with $500 wire and cable.

However, if you want to make the point that a $990 amp with $10 total in wire and cable is even better, then that is the point you should make.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 02-11-2015 at 04:55 PM.
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post #21 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
The wire isn't the point.

The real question is, would a $900 amp be better than a $500 amp?

Further, you missed the point of the illustration.

If you are spending so much money on wire and cable that it is compromising the quality if your equipment, you are spending too much money on wire and cable.

So, a $900 amp with $100 cable (all cable and wire) is better than a $500 amp with $500 wire and cable.

However, if you want to make the point that a $990 amp with $10 total in wire and cable is even better, then that is the point you should make.

Steve/bluewizard
The original question was about cables and not amps. I think you missed the point by comparing amps.

Also, using a % of system sans cables is not a good guide point. $50 for cables is 10% of the $500 amp and 6% of the $900 amp. There would be no need to spend another $40 on cables for the $900 amp. A dealer (friend) loaned me some expensive Kimber speaker cables. They sounded just like my Home Depot 12 ga cables.

BTW, I used $50 only as an illustration. The cost would be dependent on two lengths of stereo speaker wires.
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post #22 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 06:21 AM
 
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Also, using a % of system sans cables is not a good guide point.
It's not a good guide from an engineering standpoint. Nonsensical, in fact. It's a good guide from the standpoint of a salesman trying to milk you for every penny possible.
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post #23 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Which do you imagine would sound better, a $500 amp with $500 wire, or a $900 amp with $100 wire?

I'm betting the $900 amps is going to sound better. All other things being equal.
Amps ... wow Steve, there's a giant invitation for opening another can of worms. All we need now is a mention of vinyl vs. digital or MP3/256 vs. FLAC .
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+1. There is no such thing as a cable 'upgrade'.
There is - if you upgrade from the AWG22 that many HTIB send with the speakers to ones that are the right thickness for the distances needed, say AWG14 for most people, it would be an upgrade. Just go get some Monoprice cable (ensuring it is in wall rated if going I wall - for safety reasons) and be happy.


But yeah, I know what you meant. Molybdenum impregnated cable covers to deflect incoming solar rays (which obviously distort sound) in order to get a fully centered sound is not an actual upgrade.


EDIT: I am willing to pay more for good looking cables, if the cables are going to be seen. This has nothing to do with the transport of the audio signal, though - that can be easily and cleanly done by coat hangers. It is purely ascetic at that point. But if they are not seen, no reason to pay more. For me, I have a 6 inch portion that runs from the back of my L and R fronts to the plate on the ground. I spray painted the Monoprice In Wall rated AWG14 speaker wire black and it vanishes into the décor, invisible. Perfect for me since I already owned the spray paint.

Last edited by htpcforever; 02-12-2015 at 08:06 AM.
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post #25 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 08:14 AM
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There is - if you upgrade from the AWG22 that many HTIB send with the speakers to ones that are the right thickness for the distances needed, say AWG14 for most people, it would be an upgrade. Just go get some Monoprice cable (ensuring it is in wall rated if going I wall - for safety reasons) and be happy.


But yeah, I know what you meant. Molybdenum impregnated cable covers to deflect incoming solar rays (which obviously distort sound) in order to get a fully centered sound is not an actual upgrade.


EDIT: I am willing to pay more for good looking cables, if the cables are going to be seen. This has nothing to do with the transport of the audio signal, though - that can be easily and cleanly done by coat hangers. It is purely ascetic at that point. But if they are not seen, no reason to pay more. For me, I have a 6 inch portion that runs from the back of my L and R fronts to the plate on the ground. I spray painted the Monoprice In Wall rated AWG14 speaker wire black and it vanishes into the décor, invisible. Perfect for me since I already owned the spray paint.
Flat black paint creates a lifeless sound and gloss black makes it sound bright.
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Flat black paint creates a lifeless sound and gloss black makes it sound bright.
I used a semi-gloss, I read that is the right amount of flat to bright to bring out the best of the sound. I had to buy the paint from a specific guy, though, for $250 a spray can. It was worth it. In music, it is as if the paint acts like a conductor and keeps the band players performing at their best!
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post #27 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 11:42 AM
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For grins I was just looking at Nordost Odin Supreme speaker wire,dirt cheap and reasonable might I add at $16,000 ea for 2.5 meter. How do they stay in business? There is absolutely nothing that would justify this purchase. I don't care if your speakers cost a million dollars. Yes,they are cool,but $16,000. And you wonder why athlete's go broke! What is in these cables that would make your speakers sound 16k better. I'm dying to know..
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post #28 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 11:46 AM
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For grins I was just looking at Nordost Odin Supreme speaker wire,dirt cheap and reasonable might I add at $16,000 ea for 2.5 meter. How do they stay in business? There is absolutely nothing that would justify this purchase. I don't care if your speakers cost a million dollars. Yes,they are cool,but $16,000. And you wonder why athlete's go broke! What is in these cables that would make your speakers sound 16k better. I'm dying to know..
Even if you sell 2 pairs a year, you are probably doing pretty well. If someone buys enough for their surrounds, you can retire

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post #29 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 11:48 AM
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Nothing. It has nothing at all to do with performance. It is about luxury. Performance is used as a selling point and hearing bias can confirm it for the customer but bias controlled listening tests have proven that it is just luxury. Understand, however, that one of their customers would never accept that truth.
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post #30 of 128 Old 02-12-2015, 11:51 AM
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That all makes sense. Even if I was rich,I wouldn't buy that crap. You could find someone that could make you so killer looking speaker interconnects for a reasonable price,you wouldn't need that crap. But,I do realize there are people out there that literally have no problem flushing money down the toilet.
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