Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 200 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5971 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 10:50 AM
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I don't know... I thought it was better to cover the entire front wall with as much as possible and this was the cheapest way to do that. It will be about 1.5 feet thick. I have lots of unused panels in the laundry room too... I found once I deadened the front wall I didn't like anymore absorption panels in the room.
It is and ...it is. But c'mon, man. You're all picking this s**t up across the house and moving it around. Install it and be done.
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post #5972 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:01 AM
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It measures flat.

https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttach...S4722_0509.pdf

These aren't that old.
4722´s datasheet indicates flat response, but that might not be exactly the truth. At least without AT-screen...
According our driverchef´s measurements without that treble energy blocking AT-factor, there seems to be clear, high shelving filter -type general elevation on its treble end. That´s pretty much it, what all of you hear from it deviating neutral. Could be swiped away with tactical counter-EQ faster than changing socks...
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post #5973 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:04 AM
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It is and ...it is. But c'mon, man. You're all picking this s**t up across the house and moving it around. Install it and be done.

I don't mind, I like breathing it in and snacking on it like cotton candy every now and then while I'm moving it.
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post #5974 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:44 AM
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I def recommend doing this.

Don't forget to measure them against each other too.



Aww, sick! You have to go.
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4722´s datasheet indicates flat response, but that might not be exactly the truth. At least without AT-screen...
According our driverchef´s measurements without that treble energy blocking AT-factor, there seems to be clear, high shelving filter -type general elevation on its treble end. That´s pretty much it, what all of you hear from it deviating neutral. Could be swiped away with tactical counter-EQ faster than changing socks...
Professor gear-enstein here.... That measurement was not done with any A-T material in between speaker and microphone, it was an anechoic response, so you have to respect that at least.

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post #5975 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:50 AM
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Men,

I need more popcorn
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post #5976 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:53 AM
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Men,

I need more popcorn

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post #5977 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 12:19 PM
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Poor baby he or she does not have enough popcorn too...
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post #5978 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 12:33 PM
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I gotta say... I usually get a good 'scoff' from many of my friends when I state that the "right" volume level should have peaks that are slightly painful.

Just like in real life.

The exposure levels are extremely low. I'm talking milliseconds. Chart a real world cymbal crash and find SPL levels peaking well into the 130's-140's. @Ricci would know more about this kind of 'real world' live performance SPL stuff.


It depends on the player and the instrument for sure but that's fairly correct for the most part. The dynamic range required to reproduce something normal and mundane at a realistic level, is a lot higher than most people think. I always remember those old posts from Tom Danley to the effect of it taking X amount of energy to reproduce a fork being dropped on a hard surface. I play drums and I'm not known for my delicate touch on the heavy parts. If you're in the room you want ear protection. Had plenty of people not realize that's what it sounds like up close and personal in an enclosed space. I've had this idea for a long time to record a raw stereo drum track with really good condenser mics and plenty of headroom in the chain and somehow calibrate the recording level so it is known what playback levels should correspond to the correct "real" playback level. No processing or clean up of any kind. Just for fun. Each person could see what level starts to get uncomfortable either for them or their system. I never get around to it though. Maybe someday.


Have to agree with the comment about real sounds being ugly, too loud etc, too. Much of modern music is so processed, squashed and factory polished that the warts and dynamic "character" are completely different than back when a couple people had instruments and a few mics and that was it. A few warts still get through here and there. (Not commenting about the speakers or harshness heard just that I agree that sometimes recordings and real life are both loud and harsh.)
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post #5979 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 12:51 PM
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That measurement was not done with any A-T material in between speaker and microphone, it was an anechoic response, so you have to respect that at least.
Datasheet briefly states "Frequency Response in half-space (2π)". No mention of anechoic- or else special-conditions. So it could have been measured in half-space whatever way is most advantegeous for JBL´s purposes.

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post #5980 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 12:53 PM
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Datasheet briefly states "Frequency Response in half-space (2π)". No mention of anechoic- or else special-conditions. So it could have been measured whatever way is most advantegeous for JBL´s purposes.
I'd bet the farm that this would not include putting an A-T screen in front of the speaker.

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post #5981 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 12:56 PM
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I'd bet the farm that this would not include putting an A-T screen in front of the speaker.
If that´s the case, then REW-measurements of our designated CD-scientist are wrong.
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post #5982 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 01:30 PM
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post #5983 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I know this will be borderline blasphemous, but I have come to realize that I am not a fan of neutral, flat speakers. I am seriously eye-balling those new 4312-SE. I liked @John Schuermann description of them as having that cassic, muscular "JBL Sound". I don't listen to any modern artists, so the majority of my music collection/likes is primarily from the 70's and 80's. I am fast realizing that not only do I like that genre of music, but I like how that genre of music was "colored" by the speakers of that era. I know many want to hear what the director intended, which is fine. However, I prefer to season my food to taste which changes how the chef intended it. I guess I am the same when it comes to music. Anyone else feel that way or am I the lone duck on this pond?
This is why it's useful to have multiple eq presets. Different types of music sound better with different curves.
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post #5984 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 02:18 PM
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I know this will be borderline blasphemous, but I have come to realize that I am not a fan of neutral, flat speakers. I am seriously eye-balling those new 4312-SE. I liked @John Schuermann description of them as having that cassic, muscular "JBL Sound". I don't listen to any modern artists, so the majority of my music collection/likes is primarily from the 70's and 80's. I am fast realizing that not only do I like that genre of music, but I like how that genre of music was "colored" by the speakers of that era. I know many want to hear what the director intended, which is fine. However, I prefer to season my food to taste which changes how the chef intended it. I guess I am the same when it comes to music. Anyone else feel that way or am I the lone duck on this pond?
Dude. Not at all. I'd say it is borderline snobby AV bulls**t to say your speakers MUST be "flat". Flat is just a reference and sometimes it's a preference.

You're not alone.

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This is why it's useful to have multiple eq presets. Different types of music sound better with different curves.
Exactly.

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But I listen to the same type of music Easier to just get the speaker....lol

But I agree with what your saying. I just have a huge soft-spot/love for those classic 3-way monitors of that era. They just have "that sound" I love.
Well... this can be rectified.
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post #5985 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 02:54 PM
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Dude. Not at all. I'd say it is borderline snobby AV bulls**t to say your speakers MUST be "flat". Flat is just a reference and sometimes it's a preference.
But as has already been mentioned by someone, a curve is not what the original audio engineer had in mind. They setup that recording a certain way and if you're a true fan, you'd setup your system the exact same way. So from now on, you shouldn't buy any more movies or albums until you know exactly what equipment was used, the room size, the density of wall treatments, and any equipment or furniture that might have been in the mix. Only then will we truly be a part of the recording as was intended by the audio engineer.

By the way, does anyone know how I can track down the audio engineer complete with contact information for a given album or movie?
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post #5986 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:19 PM
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If that´s the case, then REW-measurements of our designated CD-scientist are wrong.
I dunno Sladi, I think I am going to stick with JBL's 2pi measurements over some REW work done more than likely in less than optimal situation.

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I know this will be borderline blasphemous, but I have come to realize that I am not a fan of neutral, flat speakers. I am seriously eye-balling those new 4312-SE. I liked @John Schuermann description of them as having that classic, muscular "JBL Sound". I don't listen to any modern artists, so the majority of my music collection/likes is primarily from the 70's and 80's. I am fast realizing that not only do I like that genre of music, but I like how that genre of music was "colored" by the speakers of that era. I know many want to hear what the director intended, which is fine. However, I prefer to season my food to taste which changes how the chef intended it. I guess I am the same when it comes to music. Anyone else feel that way or am I the lone duck on this pond?
I'd look into batpig's measurements he did using the tone controls that come with all Denon and Marantz units, he managed an excellent curve that is close to the Harman listening test results that people prefer. Speakers can be manipulated to your own personal liking and you have one of the best ones with headroom enough to cater to your own preference with little effort.
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post #5987 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:30 PM
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Carp who are you getting your 53's from?

https://socalcinetech.com

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post #5988 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:32 PM
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I have come to realize that I am not a fan of neutral, flat speakers.
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This is why it's useful to have multiple eq presets. Different types of music sound better with different curves.
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I'd say it is borderline snobby AV bulls**t to say your speakers MUST be "flat".
That is so über-class LoFi-abusement + dual-decker audiophilism blasphemy-harassment.
What reason on earth we have left any more to have these fancy audio equipment, if we do not even target neutral reproduction?? Do you understand how utterly irrational BS it becomes to deal with this level of gear, in dedication and passion as we do, if we don´t even strive to neutral playback? And even abuse EQ with those music genre presets, christ´s sake...

All of you LoFi-traitors should understand to put yourself restraining order for any AV-equipment immediately and give away your gear (for UNICEF, for example). And get another hobby.
I´m so disappointed to you, guys. Might even terminate transatlantic 4722-collaboration because of this.
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post #5989 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:33 PM
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This is good stuff.
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post #5990 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:38 PM
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I´m so disappointed to you, guys. Might even terminate transatlantic 4722-collaboration because of this.
Don't go that far, just terminate your AVS membership
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post #5991 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:44 PM
 
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There's actually a good argument FOR loudspeaker accuracy that uses personal taste and preference as the premise. There is always plenty of room for personal taste and sometimes that's is as simple as good old fashioned bass and treble controls. But if your speakers are not accurate to start it's likely you'll need greater amounts of manipulation and correction to achieve your personal taste, and possibly have to be readjusting things for all different kinds of material which can be cumbersome. An accurate loudspeaker gives you a better foundation upon which to lay your personal tastes upon, and it starts you closer to the artist intentions and what they wanted it to sound like.

Sometimes changes made also can be detrimental to the sound, especially if you have a speaker directivity issue or a speaker design flaw or even a room related acoustical problem. Starting with a loudspeaker that's more accurate minimizes the problems of outside sources. One example is an accurate loudspeaker does not make a room problem go away, but a really good accurate loudspeaker can hide the problem more and will sound better.

Someone above mentioned "flat" but I didn't use that term because loudspeaker accuracy isn't just being "flat". You might have a flat speaker but what you hear from you chair isn't anything near flat and it doesn't sound very good. Worse than that if you try to make it "flat" in your measurement you'll make it sound even worse ! That's usually because in order to make a speaker that's already "flat" as measured directly on axis and nearfield become flat at your seat you have to actually make the speaker less flat in it's direct sound. This is essentially what auto EQ programs do and precisely the reason they are not too reliable with their results. Flat isn't always what you want, but accurate usually is. That's why I like to use the term accurate, it can encompass multiple important loudspeaker variables simultaneously (distortion, frequency response, off axis response, dynamic range ability, and so on). Flat won't always ensure you get great sound and sometimes certain things can sound a little better with a touch of personal taste adjustment.

It's even likely that some of the older music was mixed on less accurate loudspeakers and which case the recording itself is flawed. That's a solid reason to apply a little correction. However unless you are only going to listen to only one flawed recording it really won't make much sense to choose a loudspeaker that is less accurate but can makes a certain recording sound better. That effect is gone when you change material and it's likely to be worse on many other things. Movie sound tracks add another layer of complexity. Most people like to listen to music and watch movies, in which case ideally you want great performance on both. If you have a speaker that's less accurate movies won't sound correct either, or you'll be constantly calibrating and playing with settings in a struggle to balance things over a wide range of materials. I think it's easier to start with a really good and accurate loudspeaker and make fewer smaller adjustments based on different material and sources.
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post #5992 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:50 PM
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That is so über-class LoFi-abusement + dual-decker audiophilism blasphemy-harassment.
What reason on earth we have left any more to have these fancy audio equipment, if we do not even target neutral reproduction?? Do you understand how utterly irrational BS it becomes to deal with this level of gear, in dedication and passion as we do, if we don´t even strive to neutral playback? And even abuse EQ with those music genre presets, christ´s sake...

All of you LoFi-traitors should understand to put yourself restraining order for any AV-equipment immediately and give away your gear (for UNICEF, for example). And get another hobby.
I´m so disappointed to you, guys. Might even terminate transatlantic 4722-collaboration because of this.
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post #5993 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 03:59 PM
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Something has changed in the industry because the JBL 4312 was one of the most widely used monitors in the industry during it's production era. It was lauded as a neutral and accurate speaker. However, today it is described as that classic, muscular "JBL" sound. Obviously today's neutral is not yesterdays neutral. If I prefer the music from the era and these were the speakers being used in production, it would seem logical to get as close to the source as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the 4722 but I don't enjoy music as much as I did on my previous 3-way JBL speakers from the late 80's early 90's. There is just a sound that they produce that my ears are drawn too. Maybe its a "fog of time" nostalgia issue, and I will not enjoy find the 4312-SE as enjoyable as I once did. Make sense?
The 4722's are designed to be cinema speakers placed behind the projection screen. Definitely designed for a flat response to be as "accurate" as possible to reproducing a cinema mix.

Totally not comparable to the sound of speakers from the 70's in any shape or form.

Every speaker has a "tone".
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post #5994 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 04:33 PM
 
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Something has changed in the industry because the JBL 4312 was one of the most widely used monitors in the industry during it's production era. It was lauded as a neutral and accurate speaker. However, today it is described as that classic, muscular "JBL" sound. Obviously today's neutral is not yesterdays neutral. If I prefer the music from the era and these were the speakers being used in production, it would seem logical to get as close to the source as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the 4722 but I don't enjoy music as much as I did on my previous 3-way JBL speakers from the late 80's early 90's. There is just a sound that they produce that my ears are drawn too. Maybe its a "fog of time" nostalgia issue, and I will not enjoy find the 4312-SE as enjoyable as I once did. Make sense?
Sure that makes sense.

Some might be in your head and audio memory. I know that at least for me there's been plenty of times where I've remembered something a little better than it was.

But I also think you might be right too.

I do think however that generally loudspeakers are a lot better today than 20 or 30 years ago. I think people would be shocked at how bad some very common speakers were back then.

At the end of the day for me I just want the best result I can get and that's usually whatever I think sounds best. Chasing that is the fun part.
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post #5995 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 05:49 PM
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Something has changed in the industry because the JBL 4312 was one of the most widely used monitors in the industry during it's production era. It was lauded as a neutral and accurate speaker. However, today it is described as that classic, muscular "JBL" sound. Obviously today's neutral is not yesterdays neutral. If I prefer the music from the era and these were the speakers being used in production, it would seem logical to get as close to the source as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the 4722 but I don't enjoy music as much as I did on my previous 3-way JBL speakers from the late 80's early 90's. There is just a sound that they produce that my ears are drawn too. Maybe its a "fog of time" nostalgia issue, and I will not enjoy find the 4312-SE as enjoyable as I once did. Make sense?
That's distortion. Some distortion can be quite pleasing.
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post #5996 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 06:17 PM
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That's distortion. Some distortion can be quite pleasing.
It could also be smell. I hear that is a powerful contributor to memories and good times. Like maybe you were doing pleasurable things while listening to music way back when and now you're not doing the same pleasurable things when listening to music. Hence you think the speakers are different while really it is your mindset and actions that are different. Or at least that's what my shrink tells me.

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post #5997 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 06:23 PM
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I know this will be borderline blasphemous, but I have come to realize that I am not a fan of neutral, flat speakers. I am seriously eye-balling those new 4312-SE. I liked @John Schuermann description of them as having that classic, muscular "JBL Sound". I don't listen to any modern artists, so the majority of my music collection/likes is primarily from the 70's and 80's. I am fast realizing that not only do I like that genre of music, but I like how that genre of music was "colored" by the speakers of that era.
Then you really might like the comment I just posted in the dedicated 4312SE thread

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post50073985

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post #5998 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 07:06 PM
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I LOVE my 4722s! Watching movies at home is better than the theater (even my wife says so!). Music is great. I can't stand people who don't have them making comments about them. Thank you for the recommendation through this thread!


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post #5999 of 7396 Old 01-20-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
https://socalcinetech.com

Michael took good care of me. 818 612 9653
I was told the 1/23 date was the next date before any CD's would be in. Every thing else is ready to be shipped.
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post #6000 of 7396 Old 01-21-2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Got in a couple of Blu ray audios from Amazon. I have been enjoying some 2453-SL bliss this afternoon. I can't get over how much I am loving music now.
Another old comment I found! I'm getting excited! ^ & V

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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
All around - to me in really changed the speaker as a whole - really smooth.
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I'm getting the CD's today!
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This is good stuff.
@carp is the 250 shipping included? Please give some more impressions! Particularly vs the JTR sweetness you always loved from your first original 212 Noesis

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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
I was told the 1/23 date was the next date before any CD's would be in. Every thing else is ready to be shipped.
We shall see Monday! If it gets pushed back again I may inquire if Carp's seller includes shipping, I'm not in a hurry though. $100 off worth the hassle of switching. $60-ish off meh I'll stay...
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