Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 7396 Old 01-23-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
One thing worth noting is the quality of construction Jeff does with JTR speakers is a cut above. I'm not saying our speakers are made like crap so no one come back saying so...But JTR's are simply built a level above and from what I have learned Jeff leans more towards the perfectionism side For hand made in USA IMO his prices are pretty dang fair! And if I had more money floating around I probably never would have tried these fat girls, I would have owned 212 Noesis LCR year one.

But honestly I am happy it turned out this way because I am addicted to this massive waveguide controlled directivity, the classic JBL mid-bass in dual 15's, and hopefully I will fall in love with the 2453H-SL CD. So perhaps I will still end up sacrificing a tiny tad of SQ/sweetness on the CD vs the BMS 4593nd (or not) but I gain WAY better mid-bass and an unrivaled massive soundstage. No sitting in middle of couch with a 12" window I must keep my head in
For sure. I've read many times that the BMS driver he uses would cost 700 unless you buy in bulk. That's a huge chunk of the 2200.

I saw him posting on Facebook about thinking about building a tower 212. That would be nuts. Full range (probably to 35 - 40 ish hz), more efficient than our 4722's, but able to handle 2000 watts? I assume the 2000 watts because all his higher end speakers can handle that.
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post #6062 of 7396 Old 01-23-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
@notnyt I can simply put one in left and right, unplug one at a time then the other to to blind testing? I read in July you said that's not good because only some content will get to each and I need a mono source. I think I have some mono tracks on a Legacy audio sample CD...
You can, just be aware there may be different signal sent to each
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post #6063 of 7396 Old 01-23-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
How much are the 825? They come with the 2453 and dual 2226 woofers!
2453h not 2453h-sl. Also, 1.3khz xover... that's a bit high imo.
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post #6064 of 7396 Old 01-23-2017, 10:57 PM
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So 5 of us have upgraded to 2453H-SL's recently from Carp getting his already to a couple (NCWgrad/Coach) closer to east coast getting theirs this week, me on Monday it's looking like (Tamp, FL to Eugene, OR) to chrapladm getting his I have no idea how long that shipping takes. Awesome nonetheless
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post #6065 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
So 5 of us have upgraded to 2453H-SL's recently from Carp getting his already to a couple (NCWgrad/Coach) closer to east coast getting theirs this week, me on Monday it's looking like (Tamp, FL to Eugene, OR) to chrapladm getting his I have no idea how long that shipping takes. Awesome nonetheless
Mine are going to my shipping forwarder and she be there later on today I think. Then probably another 2 weeks to get to me. My 15's I will be using have been put on delay so I will have to wait another 2 weeks for them. No biggie because I need the other parts anyways. Probably going to try a Sanway plate amp also on the setup when done. They are cheap and .....why not. If the horn wasnt so crazy expensive I would buy the horn already and build my very own 4722 clone. Will have to wait. Although someone has inspired me to build my ultimate speaker and I think I will attempt it.

Anyways this is the 4722 thread so I will keep on topic.
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post #6066 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 04:16 AM
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Definitely a lot of new members to "the club"....wonder if this will lead to more upgrades..

In preparation of receiving the new CD's tomorrow, does anyone have any pointers on installing the new ones?

Frohlich explained it to me but it was too long ago for me to remember unfortunately.. I do have the needed screws to install them(thanks again to Frohlich) so at this point it is just getting access to the horn within my screen wall.

Do I need any special tools to remove the old ones?

I tired to search for a You-Tube video, but couldn't find anything for these speakers...

Thanks,
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post #6067 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 06:26 AM
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Should add another entry for adding spacer for those going that route.
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post #6068 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for reminding me everyone I need to go buy some 1/4-20 1.5" threads. I didnt buy any screws for my hardware yet.
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post #6069 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Mine are going to my shipping forwarder and she be there later on today I think. Then probably another 2 weeks to get to me. My 15's I will be using have been put on delay so I will have to wait another 2 weeks for them. No biggie because I need the other parts anyways. Probably going to try a Sanway plate amp also on the setup when done. They are cheap and .....why not. If the horn wasnt so crazy expensive I would buy the horn already and build my very own 4722 clone. Will have to wait. Although someone has inspired me to build my ultimate speaker and I think I will attempt it.

Anyways this is the 4722 thread so I will keep on topic.
Meh, part of what makes this thread great is like the JTR speaker thread has been is it's looseness. Some threads of really good known gear may go a couple weeks without a post. Who wants that? The foundation has always been the overall science behind what we are doing with our speakers but we have been fortunate to not have any "self elected forum police."

Yea thats a LONG way to travel lol! Do you have a build/room thread? I would follow along. What are you powering your 4722 clones with?
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post #6070 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
@carp
How does the 4722 w/ new CD compare to the JTR? I found the 4722 very musical post upgrade but I have never heard the JTR before. For less than $1450, I don't think the upgraded 4722 can be beat by anything in it's price range. What was the JTR cost?
The Noesis 212HT would be the most comparable and goes for $1599. Both being 2 way loudspeakers and have similar crossover points (800hz vs 850hz).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
One thing worth noting is the quality of construction Jeff does with JTR speakers is a cut above. I'm not saying our speakers are made like crap so no one come back saying so...But JTR's are simply built a level above and from what I have learned Jeff leans more towards the perfectionism side For hand made in USA IMO his prices are pretty dang fair! And if I had more money floating around I probably never would have tried these fat girls, I would have owned 212 Noesis LCR year one.

But honestly I am happy it turned out this way because I am addicted to this massive waveguide controlled directivity, the classic JBL mid-bass in dual 15's, and hopefully I will fall in love with the 2453H-SL CD. So perhaps I will still end up sacrificing a tiny tad of SQ/sweetness on the CD vs the BMS 4593nd (or not) but I gain WAY better mid-bass and an unrivaled massive soundstage. No sitting in middle of couch with a 12" window I must keep my head in
Our newer wooden horn designs have very even coverage and provide a much wide sound stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
For sure. I've read many times that the BMS driver he uses would cost 700 unless you buy in bulk. That's a huge chunk of the 2200.

I saw him posting on Facebook about thinking about building a tower 212. That would be nuts. Full range (probably to 35 - 40 ish hz), more efficient than our 4722's, but able to handle 2000 watts? I assume the 2000 watts because all his higher end speakers can handle that.
An off the shelf 4593 is $700 however ours has copper shorting rings and a full phase plug so it’s quite a bit more expensive.
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post #6071 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Our newer wooden horn designs have very even coverage and provide a much wide sound stage.
Could you explain this more ? I am not understanding it.
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post #6072 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AdvancedTheater View Post
Could you explain this more ? I am not understanding it.

As a JTR owner who had the T12, the 212 and still own dual JTR S2 subs, I can attest to the fantastic build quality and sound from the whole line. I am not sure if Jeff means the soundstage of the wooden horn in the current JTR models is better than the sounstage of the previous JTR models which had a metal horn or if he means versus the 4722s (I am sure he will clarify).

I can attest from my first hand experience of owning both, that the 4722 has the biggest sound I have had in my room from any speaker I have owned (which is quite a few ). One of the qualities I love in the 4722 is the horizontal coverage. You can move from seat to seat and the dialogue is rock solid in the center channel so it has fantastic off axis response.
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post #6073 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As a JTR owner who had the T12, the 212 and still own dual JTR S2 subs, I can attest to the fantastic build quality and sound from the whole line. I am not sure if Jeff means the soundstage of the wooden horn in the current JTR models is better than the sounstage of the previous JTR models which had a metal horn or if he means versus the 4722s (I am sure he will clarify).
Than the older aluminum horns. I haven't heard the Noesis 212HT and 4722 in the same room but I am sending a couple Noesis 212HT out to the KC area for some forum members to evaluate.

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post #6074 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
2. Use 11mm wrench to remove the nuts on your current CD/horn,
7/16s for imperial scum. 11mm is often skipped over.
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post #6075 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by boothman View Post
Should add another entry for adding spacer for those going that route.
yep, if using a spacer you can re-use the studs from the 2432h, however if not, you'll need the shorter studs.
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post #6076 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As a JTR owner who had the T12, the 212 and still own dual JTR S2 subs, I can attest to the fantastic build quality and sound from the whole line. I am not sure if Jeff means the soundstage of the wooden horn in the current JTR models is better than the sounstage of the previous JTR models which had a metal horn or if he means versus the 4722s (I am sure he will clarify).

I can attest from my first hand experience of owning both, that the 4722 has the biggest sound I have had in my room from any speaker I have owned (which is quite a few ). One of the qualities I love in the 4722 is the horizontal coverage. You can move from seat to seat and the dialogue is rock solid in the center channel so it has fantastic off axis response.
I have to agree 100% with Frohlich on this post. Listening to the 4722's at his place are what sold me on them. Like him, I had the T12's, 212's then got some 215's and ended with some Cat12's from Seaton.

The 4722's, in my room, were exactly what I was looking for from a LCR. I am no pro and I judge things with my ears, not graphs, so I am happy with my 4722's. They have been in my room for over two years now....which is an eternity for me.. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Than the older aluminum horns. I haven't heard the Noesis 212HT and 4722 in the same room but I am sending a couple Noesis 212HT out to the KC area for some forum member to evaluate.
I am looking forward to hearing the opinions of the newer 212's from the guys in KC. Was hoping to go, but plans fell through. No doubt they are a great looking speaker and from the sounds of it, the performance keeps improving.

Unfortunately, they just didn't work with my room...which is cool.
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post #6077 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 04:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As a JTR owner who had the T12, the 212 and still own dual JTR S2 subs, I can attest to the fantastic build quality and sound from the whole line. I am not sure if Jeff means the soundstage of the wooden horn in the current JTR models is better than the sounstage of the previous JTR models which had a metal horn or if he means versus the 4722s (I am sure he will clarify).

I can attest from my first hand experience of owning both, that the 4722 has the biggest sound I have had in my room from any speaker I have owned (which is quite a few ). One of the qualities I love in the 4722 is the horizontal coverage. You can move from seat to seat and the dialogue is rock solid in the center channel so it has fantastic off axis response.
Yes. I believe and understand everything you say. I was asking because his comment did not make any sense to me. I viewed it more as a marketing talk, but I wanted to make sure I understood it before I question it. I've heard many models of JTR as well. I've never heard a complaint about quality, either cabinet or parts used either.

My main question (I do think you are correct the JBL has a bigger sound stage) is how a wooden horn could have a wider sound stage and why. Jeff said " Our newer wooden horn designs have very even coverage and provide a much wide sound stage." I understood that as he was comparing it against the JBL but now realize it could be against the previous metal or non wooden horn, not against the JBL.

But my main concern is that I don't understand how that in either scenario widens the sound stage. Soundstage width is achieved by lateral reflections from the side walls, specifically lateral reflection arriving from 60 degrees. This is how you can achieve an effect similar to a virtual speaker on the other side of the wall, or how the sound is much wider than the room it's in. A speaker that is wider in pattern will also provide a wider sound stage, and my understanding was JTR was more limited in that. But if Jeff meant as compared to the older JTR horn the new horn is better I can see the comment making more sense but I still want to understand it better and why. I think I was basically asking that too, what specifically makes the new wooden horn better than the old non wooden one.
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post #6078 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Meh, part of what makes this thread great is like the JTR speaker thread has been is it's looseness. Some threads of really good known gear may go a couple weeks without a post. Who wants that? The foundation has always been the overall science behind what we are doing with our speakers but we have been fortunate to not have any "self elected forum police."

Yea thats a LONG way to travel lol! Do you have a build/room thread? I would follow along. What are you powering your 4722 clones with?
Well for my build I am only building a JBL AM7315 clone using these new CD's Not has told us so much about. I am very slowly adding double drywall to my detached shed/garage for this all to go in. Not a dedicated space but just a sound dampened area for me to watch football games movies and play my bass guitar some what quietly. Indoors I dont have the room for large speakers. I will be building some 3 way towers with dual tens for the bass. No 4722 but its what I can afford and fit. The tweeter will also be the TPL-150. I absolutely love that tweeter. Nothing else , to me, has sounded as nice. So I look forward to comparing the new CD's to it when I finally own them.(Maybe June depending on new job)

Just paid the 300 in shipping that it costs to have my parts sent to me. Had to also pay a 250 payment out of the blue earlier today that was saved for shipping. Love'n life.



I always use metric when it comes to measuring. I find it more accurate anyways. PLUS its what I was using when I was a Navigation ET in submarines.

Last edited by chrapladm; 01-24-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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I got tired of buying two sets of everything, so I pretty much stick with metric now. I was glad to see most US automakers have gone metric for the most part.
Lol, I love having tools, but it does get annoying.

gear wrenches, with angle heads and without, in metric and imperial
normal wrenches in metric and imperial
crows foot wrenches in both
sockets in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, metric and imperial, normal and deep socket...
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post #6080 of 7396 Old 01-24-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
1. Remove wires from current CD (may need to use needle-nose pliers if they are snug),
2. Use 11mm wrench to remove the nuts on your current CD/horn,
3. Remove CD from horn
4. Dont allow CDs to come in close proximity to each other (magnets)
4. Hand tighten new studs into the 2453H-SL CD.
5. Attach CD to the horn.
6. Hand tighten nuts.
7. Snug nuts with 11mm.
8. Reattach wires.
9 Rinse and repeat

Should take no more than 5-10 min per speakers.
Thank you sir...

I am also giving consideration to adding the spacer since I will already be messing around with the speakers. We shall see...
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post #6081 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 02:25 AM
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Don't forget all the impact stuff too. I have two full rolling boxes and enough was enough. Snap-on, MAC, and Craftsman have enough of my money.
lol how could I forget impact...
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post #6082 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 04:54 AM
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lol how could I forget impact...
I don't mean to show you up, but I am pretty much prepared for any job:

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I don't mean to show you up, but I am pretty much prepared for any job:
if you cant duck it...
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That about sums up how I remember my dad fixing things when I was little....which also explains my extreme knowledge of tools.
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post #6085 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 08:39 AM
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Dam it.. @Frohlich 's awesome post made me blow a piece of corn out my nose. Never read AVS while eating.
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post #6086 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
For sure. I've read many times that the BMS driver he uses would cost 700 unless you buy in bulk. That's a huge chunk of the 2200.

I saw him posting on Facebook about thinking about building a tower 212. That would be nuts. Full range (probably to 35 - 40 ish hz), more efficient than our 4722's, but able to handle 2000 watts? I assume the 2000 watts because all his higher end speakers can handle that.
Nope, gaining that additional extension on the bottom would decrease the total RMS wattage pretty significantly.

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7/16s for imperial scum. 11mm is often skipped over.
And here I thought you were molding in a nice star wars pun? .........Nerf Herder........

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Dam it.. @Frohlich 's awesome post made me blow a piece of corn out my nose. Never read AVS while eating.
Why did you have a piece of corn in your nose in the first place?

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
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post #6087 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 10:44 AM
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Nope, gaining that additional extension on the bottom would decrease the total RMS wattage pretty significantly.



And here I thought you were molding in a nice star wars pun? .........Nerf Herder........



Why did you have a piece of corn in your nose in the first place?
In act of swallowing when saw his hilarious post...would have preferred coffee.

Look what just arrived:

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post #6088 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 12:15 PM
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My new compression drivers arrived this morning.

Dgage constructed me some spacers and we swapped them out rather quickly. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to do any listening except to make sure we had a signal to each speaker.

Decided to give the spacer a try since we were going to be taking things apart. Big thanks to @dgage for building the spacers and assisting me today with the change out.

Should be able to run through some demos tonight...This weekend I am getting audio calibrated and my projector touched up by ChadB, which I am pretty excited about.
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post #6089 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 12:26 PM
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Thanks @notnyt . Your spacer information was perfect. Made them up last night and it took less than an hour to get all 3 of Coach2369 4722s upgraded to the new CDs and that was with zero rear access due to a tight screen wall. Appreciate you sharing the info.

By the way, to make it easier for others in a search. Measurements showing better performance with the spacers is in posts 6209 and 6210. Spacer template drawing is in post 6217.
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David Gage
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"You don't listen to our subs, you EXPERIENCE them!"
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post #6090 of 7396 Old 01-25-2017, 01:06 PM
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Looking forward to more impressions gentlemen!

Blind test if you can Coach prob not...
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