Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 210 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6271 of 7396 Old 02-16-2017, 03:51 PM
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@MKtheater what were your impressions on the 195H mid driver/horn section? I was going through your thread but it's massive...

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post #6272 of 7396 Old 02-17-2017, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by molon_labe View Post
alright boys, i am going to blaze a new path on the 4722. After going back and forth and reading over all the jbl tech docs, i am ordering the mid/high section off the 3730 which has a single 6.5" mid-freq driver (195h). It comes with all the brackets, the passive network, and the driver. The 3730 uses the same wave-guide as the 4722, but it has a different rear housing since the 3730 uses a screw in 1"cd. Otherwise, they are identical. I was going to piece it together, but not all the parts are sold separately and it actually comes out cheaper to buy the whole thing. I will ditch the 3730 wave-guide and put the 4722 in its place. All the mounting hardware should work perfectly.

The passive crossover is set at 450 hz and 2 khz. My goal is to run these passive, but i also bought @jlpowell84 dsi amps in the event i need some peq or need to change parameters and go active. This will be a learning process and i hope i can rely on all my friends here for help if needed. I will try to run everything vertical as designed by jbl since i am at 15' from the screen but i can also lay the l/f section on it's side to gain back 4.5" if needed. The mid-horn adds 18" so if i lay the l/f section on its side that gets me to a 14" increase in height. I have read the 3732 images fine at 12-15 ft and it is 26.6" higher than the 4722. I hope to be fine at 15 feet with either 18" or 14" increase in height.

The mid/hi complete section is $515 shipped. Not that $500 is chump change but it was a whole lot cheaper than trying to piece it together which was impossible anyways since non of the brackets are sold seperately. The breakdown is as follows.

$1150 - 4722
$515 - 3730 mid/hi section
$275 - 2453h-sl
--------------------
$1940 for kick butt passive 3-way (hopefully)

i am going to buy one to start with and see how it works out. If it's a fail, i have made more costly mistakes like throwing rods through the sides of cylinder blocks

Stay tuned......

Chris
yes, yes, yes!
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post #6273 of 7396 Old 02-17-2017, 04:01 PM
 
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You even get to come down from Austin and play during this discovery.
Oh I would love to. If it works out I will be right behind you.
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post #6274 of 7396 Old 02-17-2017, 04:40 PM
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My 2 cents, I think the 3731 with the upgraded CD swill sound better and cost about the same. You can run the dsi as well. The HF/MF comes passive if one wishes. So it is either 2 way or three way. I am going to try line arrays myself as my favorite speaker ever heard musically was a line array.
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post #6275 of 7396 Old 02-17-2017, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
My 2 cents, I think the 3731 with the upgraded CD swill sound better and cost about the same. You can run the dsi as well. The HF/MF comes passive if one wishes. So it is either 2 way or three way. I am going to try line arrays myself as my favorite speaker ever heard musically was a line array.
I'm getting excited!
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post #6276 of 7396 Old 02-17-2017, 10:04 PM
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The only problem I see is the dsp in the amp is not setup with the 4722 cd to the 3730 midhorn so it may not be optimized. How much of a difference only one can tell from comparing and measuring.
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post #6277 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Alright boys, I am going to blaze a new path on the 4722. After going back and forth and reading over all the JBL tech docs, I am ordering the mid/high section off the 3730 which has a single 6.5" mid-freq driver (195h). It comes with all the brackets, the passive network, and the driver. The 3730 uses the same wave-guide as the 4722, but it has a different rear housing since the 3730 uses a screw in 1"CD. Otherwise, they are identical. I was going to piece it together, but not all the parts are sold separately and it actually comes out cheaper to buy the whole thing. I will ditch the 3730 wave-guide and put the 4722 in its place. All the mounting hardware should work perfectly.

The passive crossover is set at 450 Hz and 2 kHz. My goal is to run these passive, but I also bought @jlpowell84 DSi amps in the event I need some PEQ or need to change parameters and go active. This will be a learning process and I hope I can rely on all my friends here for help if needed. I will try to run everything vertical as designed by JBL since I am at 15' from the screen but I can also lay the L/F section on it's side to gain back 4.5" if needed. The mid-horn adds 18" so if I lay the L/F section on its side that gets me to a 14" increase in height. I have read the 3732 images fine at 12-15 ft and it is 26.6" higher than the 4722. I hope to be fine at 15 feet with either 18" or 14" increase in height.

The mid/hi complete section is $515 shipped. Not that $500 is chump change but it was a whole lot cheaper than trying to piece it together which was impossible anyways since none of the brackets are sold seperately. The breakdown is as follows.

$1150 - 4722
$515 - 3730 mid/hi section
$275 - 2453H-SL
--------------------
$1940 for kick butt passive 3-way (hopefully)

I am going to buy one to start with and see how it works out. If it's a fail, I have made more costly mistakes like throwing rods through the sides of cylinder blocks

Stay tuned......

Chris
Chris, this will be awesome!!!!!

Great minds seem to think alike!

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@Tip24/96 , attached is a JBL Pro Cinema based speaker that would be awesome for any home usage. I made up a mythical JBL model number based JBL's naming history. Would be a very easy build [more like assembly], as the LF unit is already built.



If I was starting again from scratch this is the route I would take!
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post #6278 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 07:10 AM
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Is that single 6.5 woofer the same as the 3731 dual woofers? I sat 12 feet away from the 3731 clone I built, hell, I sat the same distance for all speakers and I had the JBL 4675 image well. My problem was spreading them apart far enough and I wanted to add subs so I needed smaller speakers.

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post #6279 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
The dual uses 165f's and the single uses 195f. Does anyone see any issues crossing the 2453H-SL at 2k with the stock 3730 network? With the waveguides being the same, the only difference would be the CD going from the crappy 1" 2414H to the nicer 2453H-SL.
If you're crossing that high, you don't need such a large CD.

I don't see much of a need to run the extra mid driver over a 15 tbh. The 15 does great and the CD runs very clean

This is distortion from the 2453h-sl. The 265H-2 perform excellent as well to beyond 1khz (<0.1%). These are both limited by my mic and environment. Keep in mind 0.1% is 60 decibels lower level than the fundamental. If I raise the levels, the mic compresses and introduces 2HD. If I measure further away, the noise floor is too high. I'm unsure if the distortion here is actually the CD, or the mic.


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post #6280 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 02:49 PM
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@notnyt I think we all certainly have confidence and belief in performance and low distortion of the 15" woofer and CD thanks to your immaculate documenting and time sacrificed What about other benefits such as dispersion, height of mid driver in room as it relates to room modes, sonic signature of a 6.5" handling vocal range, and other things I am not versed in? Just asking open ended questions here as I don't know. What about NCWgrads hybrid speaker there?

I guess for me and the not so smart ones and easy way to answer the question would be. Do you think in blind testing if we took 15-20 of us who own 4722's or similar level speakers whether JTR, Danley, etc. Would we be able to tell differences between the 2-way 4722 and a 3-way whether 3730 hybrid or NCWgrads hybrid he just posted pic of? Would it be a toss up or would we expect one to win over the other? OR anyone else
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post #6281 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
@notnyt I think we all certainly have confidence and belief in performance and low distortion of the 15" woofer and CD thanks to your immaculate documenting and time sacrificed What about other benefits such as dispersion, height of mid driver in room as it relates to room modes, sonic signature of a 6.5" handling vocal range, and other things I am not versed in? Just asking open ended questions here as I don't know. What about NCWgrads hybrid speaker there?

I guess for me and the not so smart ones and easy way to answer the question would be. Do you think in blind testing if we took 15-20 of us who own 4722's or similar level speakers whether JTR, Danley, etc. Would we be able to tell differences between the 2-way 4722 and a 3-way whether 3730 hybrid or NCWgrads hybrid he just posted pic of? Would it be a toss up or would we expect one to win over the other? OR anyone else
Controlling directivity will have a benefit for sure. This would likely be the biggest benefit, though I'm not sure how low it will actually be able to hold a pattern to. Detractors would be complexity, time alignment, integration distance. As for height, it's further spreading the frequency ranges between different sources, so that could go either way. As long a the CD is around ear height I think it would be ok?

I keep this reference handy for figuring out directivity of different size speakers.



This is the DI from the 3731


And this is from the 4722


So you can see there is increased directivity above 400hz, but reduced below that. The stacked woofers on the 4722 help with the lower end, but the horn on the 3731 helps with the upper. It's all a tradeoff. Personally I like the 4722 DI curve, They'll provide a bit wider sweet spot, and it's easier to treat higher frequency reflections.

For help interpreting those graphs, a DI of 10 is approx 90x50, 110x70 is about 8, 90x40 is about 11. As the numbers increase, so does directivity.
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post #6282 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 03:06 PM
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Few more random comments on the 2453H-SL CD upgrade. It's a must get IMO...

To be fairly honest I think I jacked up my expectations a little so once plugged in the subtle yet big change did not seem large...at first...I say subtle because it seems they sound almost literally identical and that is really dang good. I can tell as time progresses the 2453 has a tad more clarity and spaciousness if that makes sense. Like when going from a HF driver that makes everything seem pinpointed to one that doesn't. If the 2432 was a 86/100 the 2453 is a 93/100 for a random guess in this department. I assume thats going from a 3" to 4" diaphragm I remember reading about. I also hear very minor nuances in music and movies I did not before. Now the big improvement is the area of harshness, ringing, gravel-y-ness or whatever you want to call it. I watched 3/4 of Superman returns today a solid 8-9 clicks higher on the Denon today with no desire to turn down until near ending actions scenes that ramp up came on. IMO the desire to back off two clicks at this point is due to the general slap echo in my living room. I hung one panel on the back wall near front door entrance in path of left 4722 horn but meeting with realtor on 24th means I won't be going crazy and trying to kill it and the many uncovered walls. Nonetheless the 2453 just is a solid few steps above the 2432 in this department and we have all seen the data measurements. But real world analog it sounds sounds generally much more pleasing to the ears at movie listening type levels...
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post #6283 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 03:12 PM
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@Molon_Labe if you need gained height I know of a guy who advocates subwoofer risers
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post #6284 of 7396 Old 02-18-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I am curious as to why JBL lowers the x-over on the 265H-2 on the active setup vs the passive.
steeper slopes in the digital domain. They might match directivity a little better at lower freq. I'm still running my front stage at 800 across the board. Sounds great.

Basically like this, though this isn't from one of the 4722s, but from my center.

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post #6285 of 7396 Old 02-19-2017, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Rob,

Do you think there is any audible performance being left on the table with the 265H-2's? They don't appear to be held in very high regard on audioheritage forum and are used in the middle of the road JBL products. I am not a speaker expert but mine still feel as stiff as a board. What would be the best L/Fdriver to squeeze the most out of the 4722 architecture? AE TD15M or JBL 2226H?

There are lots of JBL drivers that can play louder, but the 265h-2 are differential drive with dual voice coils, neo magnets, low inductance, low distortion, high sens, and good upper extension. They have lower power handling than some others, but you have two of em in the enclosure, so it makes up for it. You could always try the 2265hpl, but after measuring the 265h-2 I don't really see much need. The 2226 is an antique, wouldn't consider it

What does audioheritage have to say about the 265h-2?
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post #6286 of 7396 Old 02-19-2017, 04:35 AM
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Is the search for that last 1%. I think there are a few drivers that "could," sound as good as the JBL or maybe better. But I wouldnt go chasing it unless I was spending someone else's money for fun. TD15 and perhaps an Eminence 15. Cant remember the model right this second. BUT not sure it would do enough for me to warrant the change.

Some of the other choices are better in smaller enclosures and thats about it. Heritage are all die hard JBL fanatics. They usually dont think anything other than JBL can best the 15. BUT if I had to try I would definitely search for something similar to the AE TD15M specs. I say M specs because a pair of dual 15's would never need to have more than 6mm Xmax for my wants. Anyways just my 2 cents.
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Chris, this will be awesome!!!!!

Great minds seem to think alike!
I wonder if one can have crossover frequencies of ~250Hz LF-MF and ~700Hz MF-HF for this 3 way 5730 model. I mean if these two crossover frequencies being too close to each other ?

But those frequencies would make the large C2C distance between MF and HF, due to large waveguides, a non issue.


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post #6288 of 7396 Old 02-19-2017, 01:49 PM
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Is the search for that last 1%. I think there are a few drivers that "could," sound as good as the JBL or maybe better. But I wouldnt go chasing it unless I was spending someone else's money for fun. TD15 and perhaps an Eminence 15. Cant remember the model right this second. BUT not sure it would do enough for me to warrant the change.

Some of the other choices are better in smaller enclosures and thats about it. Heritage are all die hard JBL fanatics. They usually dont think anything other than JBL can best the 15. BUT if I had to try I would definitely search for something similar to the AE TD15M specs. I say M specs because a pair of dual 15's would never need to have more than 6mm Xmax for my wants. Anyways just my 2 cents.
I was considering redoing my front stage with AE drivers, but I haven't had a compelling reason to yet.
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post #6289 of 7396 Old 02-19-2017, 09:22 PM
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Notnyt, I would be curios if you switched out your normal 15 in your center channel and added a single 15 from AE there to see if there was a difference. WOuld only be one 15 so maybe easier for you or maybe not. Some day I am going to try and listen to a 3015LF from Eminence, JBL 2265HPL and an AE TD15H. I say someday because I tend to build something I know I will like and just live with it. So not a big gamble very often on my end.

Probably going to build your center channel Notnyt although I am curious what the JBL M2 15 has to offer. Not needed in a center channel but maybe in my 3 way mains. Cant remember the model number but either way.
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post #6290 of 7396 Old 02-20-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Notnyt, I would be curios if you switched out your normal 15 in your center channel and added a single 15 from AE there to see if there was a difference. WOuld only be one 15 so maybe easier for you or maybe not. Some day I am going to try and listen to a 3015LF from Eminence, JBL 2265HPL and an AE TD15H. I say someday because I tend to build something I know I will like and just live with it. So not a big gamble very often on my end.

Probably going to build your center channel Notnyt although I am curious what the JBL M2 15 has to offer. Not needed in a center channel but maybe in my 3 way mains. Cant remember the model number but either way.
If I wasn't shooting for lower impedance to match my l/r and keep the gain lower for my center channel I would have went with the 2265hpl. While the AE drivers are nice, it's often unpredictable how fast you'll get them. The range these are running in isn't exactly difficult. Once you start pushing these beyond 1k, the differences will show up.

The 2216nd in the M2 is lower sensitivity, but comes with a bit lower inductance. Any of these drivers being discussed would do great, and after EQ, I doubt you'd be able to tell them apart. At the moment, I don't have the time or desire to test that theory.
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post #6291 of 7396 Old 02-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Alright boys, I am going to blaze a new path on the 4722. After going back and forth and reading over all the JBL tech docs, I am ordering the mid/high section off the 3730 which has a single 6.5" mid-freq driver (195h). It comes with all the brackets, the passive network, and the driver. The 3730 uses the same wave-guide as the 4722, but it has a different rear housing since the 3730 uses a screw in 1"CD. Otherwise, they are identical. I was going to piece it together, but not all the parts are sold separately and it actually comes out cheaper to buy the whole thing. I will ditch the 3730 wave-guide and put the 4722 in its place. All the mounting hardware should work perfectly.

The passive crossover is set at 450 Hz and 2 kHz. My goal is to run these passive, but I also bought @jlpowell84 DSi amps in the event I need some PEQ or need to change parameters and go active. This will be a learning process and I hope I can rely on all my friends here for help if needed. I will try to run everything vertical as designed by JBL since I am at 15' from the screen but I can also lay the L/F section on it's side to gain back 4.5" if needed. The mid-horn adds 18" so if I lay the L/F section on its side that gets me to a 14" increase in height. I have read the 3732 images fine at 12-15 ft and it is 26.6" higher than the 4722. I hope to be fine at 15 feet with either 18" or 14" increase in height.

The mid/hi complete section is $515 shipped. Not that $500 is chump change but it was a whole lot cheaper than trying to piece it together which was impossible anyways since none of the brackets are sold seperately. The breakdown is as follows.

$1150 - 4722
$515 - 3730 mid/hi section
$275 - 2453H-SL
--------------------
$1940 for kick butt passive 3-way (hopefully)

I am going to buy one to start with and see how it works out. If it's a fail, I have made more costly mistakes like throwing rods through the sides of cylinder blocks

Stay tuned......

Chris
Wait a minute, are you planning on stacking XO's with the design to keep it full passive? What I mean by this is running wire into 4722N, the High output from there goes into the 3730 MF/HF XO and divides it again? That by itself could cause all kinds of issues but I guess it never hurts to try.

My main question is, and I read the reasoning why in previous posts, but, WHY?????? You'll almost have worse directivity by getting the HF section that much closer to your ceiling. I don't get it, not sure what you were missing to begin with.

Ok fine I do get it. It's a fun project. I love fun projects.

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post #6292 of 7396 Old 02-21-2017, 12:42 PM
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Wait a minute, are you planning on stacking XO's with the design to keep it full passive? What I mean by this is running wire into 4722N, the High output from there goes into the 3730 MF/HF XO and divides it again? That by itself could cause all kinds of issues but I guess it never hurts to try.

My main question is, and I read the reasoning why in previous posts, but, WHY?????? You'll almost have worse directivity by getting the HF section that much closer to your ceiling. I don't get it, not sure what you were missing to begin with.

Ok fine I do get it. It's a fun project. I love fun projects.

No, the 3730 comes with a 3 way passive network. I was going to use that. I ditched the project due to the total height of the speakers.
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post #6293 of 7396 Old 02-21-2017, 02:07 PM
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The main issue is see is what @Hifisound pointed out, the large size of the midhorn dictates a low XO point with the HF horn dye to the large C-2-C spacing, this issue is why I went with Wayne Parham's midhorn in my active three-way design.

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post #6294 of 7396 Old 02-23-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I am planning to go the Be route in the near future, so I will need a PEQ device since ARC doesn't correct above 5k. Even if I end up not going with the Be diaphragms, I have a 3-5db rise between 5k-10k that Audyssey and Dirac flattened out. What product do you recommend? I have seen the Behringer dcx2496 but it seems to work but has a poor noise floor and prone to failure and then is tossed and replaced. There is of course MiniDSP but the noise floor is also an issue, not sure if the HD models are any better. The dbx DriveRack PA2 seems to get rave reviews. Any input would be great.
I have the dbx Driverack Venu360 and would buy it again without hesitation, in fact when I save up some funds I will likely be buying another one. It's awesome, being able to fine tune via my laptop while sitting in the prime listening position is most excellent.

I have had two miniDSP units, both were the basic 2x4 (one balanced and one not). I quickly sold each of them as I didn't like them.

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post #6295 of 7396 Old 02-23-2017, 08:08 AM
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I have had two miniDSP units, both were the basic 2x4 (one balanced and one not). I quickly sold each of them as I didn't like them.
Is it about the noise again?
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post #6296 of 7396 Old 02-23-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I was looking at the Venu 360 last night. Powerful box and would allow me to go active on the 4722's too. Does it have all the same EQ parameters that the DSi amps have? I know there was a parameter missing in the XTi amps software that prevented the copying of the DSi info to the XTi.
It is much more powerful than the DSi! You could easily go full active, I am sure the DSP/XO presets exist for the dbx unit. I not could manually enter from the values on the Harmon software.

It has an absolute ***** ton of DSP slots available, more than I could ever need. Would be awesome with the 4722's (especially with the 2453H-SL CD's which I am using in my DIY build).

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post #6297 of 7396 Old 02-23-2017, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Is it about the noise again?
It is all about the noise, probably okay for subs.

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post #6298 of 7396 Old 02-24-2017, 04:14 AM
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Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers.

Hey guys,

I have (3) am7215/95 being delivered today. I'm going to use one for my center and the other two as side surrounds with 4722n's for left and right unless I like them so much I want to use them as LCR. I was wondering about break-in time, how long does that normally take?
The only other speakers I've ever heard for HT are my current Klipsch RF7ii's, I hope these have more mid bass and dynamics, I'm 100% movies.
I got these at a great price so I couldn't pass them up. Malon_labe posted a link to them awhile back and I made an offer of $500.00 each and it was accepted. They will be delivered today, can't wait to hook them up.





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Last edited by Gearpro; 02-24-2017 at 05:56 AM.
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post #6299 of 7396 Old 02-24-2017, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Gearpro View Post
Hey guys,

I have (3) am7215/95 being delivered today. I'm going to use one for my center and the other two as side surrounds with 4722n's for left and right unless I like them so much I want to use them as LCR. I was wondering about break-in time, how long does that normally take?
The only other speakers I've ever heard for HT are my current Klipsch RF7ii's, I hope these have more mid bass and dynamics, I'm 100% movies.
I got these at a great price so I couldn't pass them up. Malon_labe posted a link to them awhile back and I made an offer of $500.00 each and it was accepted. They will be delivered today, can't wait to hook them up.

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Nice HF and LF drivers but why JBL cross them at 1.8KHz?
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post #6300 of 7396 Old 02-24-2017, 06:43 AM
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Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Nice HF and LF drivers but why JBL cross them at 1.8KHz?


Notnyt expressed the same concern to me in a PM that I received from him when I was asking his opinion about them. I know what a cross over is but I'm not smart enough yet to understand how big a deal that is ... at that price I had to buy them and give them a try, I hope I don't regret it


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