Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 245 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7321 of 7346 Old 05-08-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Didn't go NAD but I have dirac now with my Lex and it's awesome. First time I've ever actually liked room EQ enough to leave it on 100% of the time...
Do you keep EQ below 250hz? If you like it then it must be decent lol.
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post #7322 of 7346 Old 05-08-2019, 02:17 PM
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As Beast said...the 2453 is exact same as 2452. The 2452 stock does need upgrade diaphragm to essentially be equal to the 2453 but thats not the point here. The 2453 is $270 and by far best bang for the buck. The 2452 is $425 (not sure why), then the stock diaphragm is removed and replaced with the Truextent BEX4008 Beryllium diaphragm. Rob did major documentation and measurements on this when he provided all of us with the great 2453 info and how to proceed. Currently the BEX4008 is $725 on Speakerex and up from 550 then 6 something in last two years. As that stand we are looking at $270 for the 2453 vs $1150 for the 2452/BEX4008. I do have a call into the metals company 'Materion' who manufactures these Beryllium diaphragms to see if I can buy direct or better price elsewhere.

The DIY option I am going with will be my final speaker change, I am barely motivated enough to do this/Pallet up my JTR 215RT trio and ship, but I am. The CD has been explained, it will have a single JBL 2265HPL woofer, STX825 90x60 coverage horn, running active from a Hypex FA253 plate amp working with Rob to develop the proper DSP settings in the Hypex. I expect cab size to be around 19widex12deepx32tall. This will essentially be a upgraded type 4722 clone in sound. I lose the advantage of the large wave guide/horn, CD will need to be crossed little higher but horizontal dispersion is the same 90 degrees (which was important for me) and won't have the max spl a ported larger dual woofer 4722 has but thats fine as it will still be way more than I need. I do gain the advantage of Beryllium. I have not heard beryllium before so perhaps some risk there, but for me the 2453H-SL was my fav high frequency driver I ever heard or owned. So this theory is to take that exact same sound from the super dynamic 4" CD and ad a little sweetness on the top with the BE phragm. This is the theory, just need to execute now...

Edit: CD price diff (unless I find better) is 270 vs 1150 per and we need that 3x so 810 vs 3450. A little disappointing Speakerex has raised $200 in around 24 months but Materion prob raised prices. This same CD option can be done on the 4722...

Just to clear up a couple things.

The designation letters at the end indicate different parts.

2452 and 2453 are the main models.

The H indicates 8 ohms
the SL indicates Select, an upgraded diaphragm with Aquaplas coating. Without that, the 4" CDs are not good to use.

The 2452H-SL is slightly better than the 2453H-SL, but much more expensive and not worth the price difference unless you're planning to go with a Be diaphragm. As mentioned, the 2453 has the diaphragm soldered to the rear cap. The 2452 has a diaphragm you can replace.

The 2432H was the original compression driver in the 4722. It is a ribbed 3" Ti diaphragm without any coating.

Do not buy a 2452H or a 2453H and expect good performance. You will not get it. The -SL part is key, and goes a long way to killing resonances in the diaphragm.

The Truextent Be diaphragms in a 2452H is truly endgame stuff. The dynamics and clarity are amazing. Breakup modes are pushed above 20khz. Great stuff.

If you're just using for movies, probably not worth the Be upgrade, and the 2453H-SL will do fine. That said, the 2453H-SL is still excellent, and incredible value.



The 2453H-SL is similar to the 2452H-SL, but not exact. The 2452H-SL measured a touch better up top.
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Last edited by notnyt; 05-08-2019 at 02:23 PM.
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post #7323 of 7346 Old 05-08-2019, 02:22 PM
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2452 on left, 2453 on right



Aquaplas coated Ti diaphragm


Be diaphragm
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post #7324 of 7346 Old 05-08-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Just to clear up a couple things.

The designation letters at the end indicate different parts.

2452 and 2453 are the main models.

The H indicates 8 ohms
the SL indicates Select, an upgraded diaphragm with Aquaplas coating. Without that, the 4" CDs are not good to use.

The 2452H-SL is slightly better than the 2453H-SL, but much more expensive and not worth the price difference unless you're planning to go with a Be diaphragm. As mentioned, the 2453 has the diaphragm soldered to the rear cap. The 2452 has a diaphragm you can replace.

The 2432H was the original compression driver in the 4722. It is a ribbed 3" Ti diaphragm without any coating.

Do not buy a 2452H or a 2453H and expect good performance. You will not get it. The -SL part is key, and goes a long way to killing resonances in the diaphragm.

The Truextent Be diaphragms in a 2452H is truly endgame stuff. The dynamics and clarity are amazing. Breakup modes are pushed above 20khz. Great stuff.

If you're just using for movies, probably not worth the Be upgrade, and the 2453H-SL will do fine. That said, the 2453H-SL is still excellent, and incredible value.



The 2453H is similar to the 2452H, but not exact. The 2452H measured a touch better.
My gut told me to include EXACT part numbers, well letters. Good for anyone coming in future. End Game will be the name of these 'Project Endgame'

Here is a visual on the breakup modes and other data I found when reading up on BE. I won't pretend like I FULLY grasp all of this but it makes sense as to why BE would be superior. So unless you are part cat you will not be hearing any of this
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post #7325 of 7346 Old 05-09-2019, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
My gut told me to include EXACT part numbers, well letters. Good for anyone coming in future. End Game will be the name of these 'Project Endgame'

Here is a visual on the breakup modes and other data I found when reading up on BE. I won't pretend like I FULLY grasp all of this but it makes sense as to why BE would be superior. So unless you are part cat you will not be hearing any of this
If you ever plan to travel to Pandora, and become an Avatar of the Navi, you better bring along the BE diaphram!
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post #7326 of 7346 Old 05-10-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Do you keep EQ below 250hz? If you like it then it must be decent lol.
Schroeder is actually a little above that in my room, and even with anthem's arc I found I liked EQing up to 500hz the best actually...but with dirac I am using full blown auto EQ. That's right, all the way to 20khz. I lightly massage the harman curve for the main LR speakers then copy that target curve to all the surrounds. It provides for the most immersive surround experience I've ever heard in my room by a fair margin. By doing this it removes any timbral differences (rolls off surrounds top end just like my mains do) so it makes each speaker's response as identical as possible.

For music running the mains full range I just use tone controls still, but if crossing to subs i still use the dirac curve.

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post #7327 of 7346 Old 05-19-2019, 01:27 AM
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Are you using the 4722 with one or two 4645c subwoofers?

In that case. What amp would you recommend for the 4645c

Thanks a lot


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
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post #7328 of 7346 Old 05-20-2019, 05:58 PM
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Just cut a bunch of spacers for a couple people who wanted


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post #7329 of 7346 Old 05-21-2019, 12:33 PM
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Up


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post #7330 of 7346 Old 05-21-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by byron69 View Post
Up


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Maybe quote whomever you are actually trying to ask this question of?

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post #7331 of 7346 Old 05-21-2019, 10:10 PM
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@notnyt


I have followed all your measuring endeavours and thanks to that i decided on 2453H-SL with STX horn when i upgraded my HT speakers
I also swapped my 2226 for 2216Nd and with 2453 and i have a killer combo!
Infact, with Dirac i dont even use my subs (2x4645C) anymore when it comes to music.


So thank you for all the measurements!
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post #7332 of 7346 Old 05-21-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan b-lund View Post
@notnyt


I have followed all your measuring endeavours and thanks to that i decided on 2453H-SL when i upgraded my HT speakers
I also swapped my 2226 for 2216Nd and with 2453 and i have a killer combo!
Infact, with Dirac i dont even use my subs (2x4645C) anymore when it comes to music.


So thank you for all the measurements!
Great selection, I had it sold it in hopes I would discover greener pastures. Nope, I'm going back to the 4" JBL compression drivers And the bass, yea It's all pro woofers (LCR and subs) for me for life, so much cleaner to my ears.

And Yea, Rob has done some tremendous discoveries for all of us, he is developing Hypex amplifiers also. I have three FA253's arriving tomm for my LCR and plan on having him build an, 8-10 channel Hypex based surround/Atmos amp as well. Nothing measures low distortion like Hypex. There is nothing that sounds like the 4" JBL stuff IMHO, but I haven't heard a ton or the D2430k but Rob measured it and it didn't stand as tall as the 2452/3 4".

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post #7333 of 7346 Old 05-21-2019, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Great selection, I had it sold it in hopes I would discover greener pastures. Nope, I'm going back to the 4" JBL compression drivers And the bass, yea It's all pro woofers (LCR and subs) for me for life, so much cleaner to my ears.

And Yea, Rob has done some tremendous discoveries for all of us, he is developing Hypex amplifiers also. I have three FA253's arriving tomm for my LCR and plan on having him build an, 8-10 channel Hypex based surround/Atmos amp as well. Nothing measures low distortion like Hypex. There is nothing that sounds like the 4" JBL stuff IMHO, but I haven't heard a ton or the D2430k but Rob measured it and it didn't stand as tall as the 2452/3 4".


Sometimes it is just so easy to hit exactly what you need and want.
I even re used my 140L sealed cabs i had with 2226.
I lurked on Lansing and here when i found the posts Rob made and it did it for me


In Sweden it is near imposible to find these drivers and to import costs alot to so we have to buy without any chance to test them first.
M2 i have heard a couple of times but to fit them i had to do bigger adjustments to my baffle wall.
Hence the mix of parts via active filters and alot of amps.
What ever i throw at them, even at dangerous lvl they just deliver.


Measurements - Not the best scale and 1/48 smoothing,
10db bump in the lower bass full range without subs
Magenta = Dirac with 1 measuring Point.
Blue = Dirac sum of 13 Points.





Same scale and 1/24 smoothing.
I dont know why there is a 1,5dB difference in the lower bass, might be from the target curve in Dirac
Red = with subs cross over @ 50hz
Black = without




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post #7334 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan b-lund View Post
Sometimes it is just so easy to hit exactly what you need and want.
I even re used my 140L sealed cabs i had with 2226.
I lurked on Lansing and here when i found the posts Rob made and it did it for me


In Sweden it is near imposible to find these drivers and to import costs alot to so we have to buy without any chance to test them first.
M2 i have heard a couple of times but to fit them i had to do bigger adjustments to my baffle wall.
Hence the mix of parts via active filters and alot of amps.
What ever i throw at them, even at dangerous lvl they just deliver.


Measurements - Not the best scale and 1/48 smoothing,
10db bump in the lower bass full range without subs
Magenta = Dirac with 1 measuring Point.
Blue = Dirac sum of 13 Points.





Same scale and 1/24 smoothing.
I dont know why there is a 1,5dB difference in the lower bass, might be from the target curve in Dirac
Red = with subs cross over @ 50hz
Black = without




What are you using for your active XO's?

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post #7335 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 07:56 AM
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I am confused. What happened with the JTRs? I thought those were your all-time, audio-nirvana speakers?
They were until he heard them for the first time. If you read between the lines a little there was always a little hesitation in his reviews even from the start... That's how I always felt at least Can't wait for you to get your setup going this weekend. I saw your post in the other thread. You're gonna be stoked on that for sure.
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post #7336 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 09:45 AM
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I am confused. What happened with the JTRs? I thought those were your all-time, audio-nirvana speakers?
Really confused or poking fun lol, can't always tell with you

As you know I had the upgraded 4722s I got couple/few years ago based on the steal of a deal they were...But my journey started in 2012 and the JTR speaker sales and JTR thread fueled by the KC crew and many others back east the JTR craze was pretty insane. The original 212 Noesis, which has always used the BMS 4593 CD, was so raved about. So after owning my 4722's I got the chance to get the craziest 215RT of all time that used the same CD I had read so much about and fell in love with in a sort of snake oil way prior days. So I took it, figured it could only be a lateral move for me. I was wrong for me and my ears. I am not saying the 215 is lesser of a speaker. The data bass testing shows us it beats like 60% of dedicated subs out there lol. But I for my tastes and what kind of distortion I am sensitive to the 2453 was king for me. Hence my decision to go back to basically same setup but DIY to take it to the best possible performance of active off ultra low distortion Hypex amps, and the 2452 which actually measured a hair better than 2453 but with BEX4008. My amps arrive today, My order for woofers (6x 2265HPL), 2452's and STX825 horns is already in. BEX4008 will be last to arrive.
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post #7337 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 11:41 AM
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No harm, no foul. Sometimes the only way to cure an itch is to scratch it. To ignore it, would always leave one guessing and wondering - now you know. The kick in the balls is those itches can be very expensive financially and extremely unpopular and upsetting to the spouse.
That reads like a fresh wound
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That reads like a fresh wound
Luckily I lost no more than a couple/ew K in all my changes.

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Baby steps...
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post #7340 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 06:27 PM
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I'm running JBL Studio 590's in my dedicated theater room and love them. But I am wondering if these speakers would be a noticeable step up. I use my speakers 100% for home theatre.
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post #7341 of 7346 Old 05-22-2019, 11:32 PM
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What are you using for your active XO's?
Nothing fancy, two DBX 223xs
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post #7342 of 7346 Old 05-23-2019, 06:41 AM
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I'm running JBL Studio 590's in my dedicated theater room and love them. But I am wondering if these speakers would be a noticeable step up. I use my speakers 100% for home theatre.
There is a night and day difference between the 590 and the 4722 with the upgraded compression driver. Seriously, its not even close. I tried the 590s in the theater room after I sold my 4722 and found that the majority of the dynamics, detail, and spaciousness was gone. This led me to the M2s since the 4722s were just too big when/if we move and downsize. I also had one of those itches that I needed to scratch with regards to the M2. The Studio series is a great bargain for what they sell for, and I still have a pair of them in my living room and bedroom. I am a fan and recommend them often. However, the 4722 is in another league by a wide margin. If you have the space for the 4722, do it - you wont regret it.
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post #7343 of 7346 Old 06-02-2019, 12:31 AM
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Just finished tuning a friends cab, which is similar to my center, except with a fusion plate amp in a 3677 enclosure... Unfortunately, the mic fell and was damaged right when we started taking off axis measurements



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Just finished tuning a friends cab, which is similar to my center, except with a fusion plate amp in a 3677 enclosure... Unfortunately, the mic fell and was damaged right when we started taking off axis measurements



Not enough duct tape .

On a serious note, how are you powering everything? I assume there is civilization behind the camera?

The on axis looks very nice indeed!
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post #7345 of 7346 Old 06-02-2019, 10:23 AM
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Not enough duct tape .

On a serious note, how are you powering everything? I assume there is civilization behind the camera?

The on axis looks very nice indeed!
nowhere near civilization. powering off an inverter from my truck. The tape holding the mic stand was added after it fell. worked well, but too late Friggen CSL out of stock.
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post #7346 of 7346 Old 06-02-2019, 11:42 AM
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Def will be curious to see the STX825/JBL CD off axis measurements. I can prob get there in 6 weeks or so...
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