Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers. - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
the point is a little more nuanced than that. toole's position is that eq can only be used to perfect response at one seat because none of his arrangements allow for affecting all seats *equally*. with his strategies of putting subwoofers around the room, on the floor, that is accurate.


all of his strategies are to *minimize* seat-to-seat variation, prior to eq, which is a good strategy. however, in none of his arrangements does the variation go to zero (or even zero as a practical matter), so eq can't get it perfect except at a single seat (hence his statement which appears in numerous studies and presentations).


what i was suggesting was a strategy where eq can be applied and affects an entire row. that row will also have a similarly imperfect frequency response prior to eq, which is what allows one eq setting to bring the entire row into alignment with zero (effective) seat-to-seat variation.
Oh, my apologies, so a strategy that focuses on eliminating variation with respect to only one axis, essentially? That makes sense.
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post #1472 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 03:03 PM
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Wall of Sound = AMAZING!

Just finished listening to several of my favorite scenes from John Wick and then the gatling gun scene in Book of Eli.

I have one word to describe it...WOW!

These are the real deal for me with being a 100% HT guy.
Wide sound stage...Check!
Dynamic....YUP!
Clear dialog...best I have heard in my room.
Mid Bass....PERFECT!

Then you throw in the dual Mariana 24's and you have a hard to beat wall of theater sound. In fact, the subs had to be turned down some since they are so powerful. I really can't get over how clean these subs are...

The added bonus of enjoying my first AT screen and the LCR speakers in the same alignment are just great bonuses..

Once I get a few things tweaked in the room(change some paint, touch up some walls, add a dark piece of carpet in front of the screen and clean up some loose items that are rattling), I will be ready to post some pictures of my room.

Now I am going to enjoy my backlog of movies and stay out of the commercial theaters for awhile..
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post #1473 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Just finished listening to several of my favorite scenes from John Wick and then the gatling gun scene in Book of Eli.

I have one word to describe it...WOW!

These are the real deal for me with being a 100% HT guy.
Wide sound stage...Check!
Dynamic....YUP!
Clear dialog...best I have heard in my room.
Mid Bass....PERFECT!

Then you throw in the dual Mariana 24's and you have a hard to beat wall of theater sound. In fact, the subs had to be turned down some since they are so powerful. I really can't get over how clean these subs are...

The added bonus of enjoying my first AT screen and the LCR speakers in the same alignment are just great bonuses..

Once I get a few things tweaked in the room(change some paint, touch up some walls, add a dark piece of carpet in front of the screen and clean up some loose items that are rattling), I will be ready to post some pictures of my room.

Now I am going to enjoy my backlog of movies and stay out of the commercial theaters for awhile..
That is awesome to hear Coach!!!!! I know you have been on a long HT journey and hopefully you have found your perfect fit. I know my 4722s aren't going anywhere
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post #1474 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Just finished listening to several of my favorite scenes from John Wick and then the gatling gun scene in Book of Eli.

I have one word to describe it...WOW!

These are the real deal for me with being a 100% HT guy.
Wide sound stage...Check!
Dynamic....YUP!
Clear dialog...best I have heard in my room.
Mid Bass....PERFECT!

Then you throw in the dual Mariana 24's and you have a hard to beat wall of theater sound. In fact, the subs had to be turned down some since they are so powerful. I really can't get over how clean these subs are...

The added bonus of enjoying my first AT screen and the LCR speakers in the same alignment are just great bonuses..

Once I get a few things tweaked in the room(change some paint, touch up some walls, add a dark piece of carpet in front of the screen and clean up some loose items that are rattling), I will be ready to post some pictures of my room.

Now I am going to enjoy my backlog of movies and stay out of the commercial theaters for awhile..
Sorry but I have to correct this for you
Wide sound stage- you can't get bigger!
Dynamic- try to find more!
Clear vocals- none better for price!
Mid bass- see above!

There you go.
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post #1475 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Sorry but I have to correct this for you
Wide sound stage- you can't get bigger!
Dynamic- try to find more!
Clear vocals- none better for price!
Mid bass- see above!

There you go.
I like that....
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post #1476 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 04:00 PM
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Well long story short I am ordering three of these. Just need to wait until we close on our house which is projected 18th of this month. Won't have a room for awhile but I am thinking of using a spare bedroom as a temporary listening room.
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post #1477 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 04:08 PM
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well long story short i am ordering three of these. Just need to wait until we close on our house which is projected 18th of this month. Won't have a room for awhile but i am thinking of using a spare bedroom as a temporary listening room.
ata boy!!!!
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post #1478 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Well long story short I am ordering three of these. Just need to wait until we close on our house which is projected 18th of this month. Won't have a room for awhile but I am thinking of using a spare bedroom as a temporary listening room.
Welcome to the Club!

Now you need some 24" subs to go with them...
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post #1479 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 06:29 PM
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ata boy!!!!


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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Welcome to the Club!

Now you need some 24" subs to go with them...
Yea David's craftsmanship is beautiful. And anyone who wouldn't want a 4,000 watt speaker power amp juicing an SI 24 is nuts! All I keep hearing is how clean they are!

My sub's will come after the turn of the year during bonus season. I have time to figure it out but initially I am thinking DIY ported/tuned to 15-17hz. I have been flat to 8hz for a year now and honestly I'm not a single digit chaser. I like the ultra low don't get me wrong but I feel its no where near the importance of 15hz up and for me certainly not cost justified. Hopefully once I'm without it I won't change my mind! Seems ported DIY is the best bang for the buck. And a 15hz tune should extend to 11hz or so. Of course this is the plan as long as the Submersives actually end up selling. If not I'll run them and add more DIY sealed. I want to have some behind the AT screen wall and some built into a bar behind a single row of 4 seats about 12ft from screen. Room should end up about 22ft long so figure 15ft is actual seating distance with false wall. That gets me out of the dead center of the room acoustically but also away from back wall.

@jbrown15 do you still have yours? @LTD02 you designed them or at least helped right? I need to review the build thread.
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post #1480 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 08:21 PM
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I thought the submersive always won the subject part of the GTG's compared to ported subs. Just imagine the same but with the output of ported!
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post #1481 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 08:38 PM
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@jlpowell84

congrats on your 4722 decision.

last I heard, @jbrown15 wanted to experiment with sealed and got a sweet deal on some subs from reaction audio. he seems to like them a lot: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post36251162

i did assist with his ported sub project. he wasn't really sure what he wanted at first, so we kicked around bunch of ideas. ultimately, we cooked up a design that placed the drivers at approx. 1/4 distance from the boundaries and vented to the side so as not to blow on the acoustically transparent screen.
his build thread is here (and he did a great job of putting the key info in the first post, so one doesn't have to read the whole thread in order to see what he did): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...sub-build.html
avs member @stsand posted a review here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post24528893 "When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever." :-)
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post #1482 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I thought the submersive always won the subject part of the GTG's compared to ported subs. Just imagine the same but with the output of ported!
You mean people liked the Submersive most often in the blind tests the guys have done over the years multiple times? It's been awhile since I have been in @Archaea 's sub shootout thread but I think I remember it taking a good place in the standings. I would keep them for sure but for what they are worth I could build a couple ported subs and buy DSI 1000's x3. But if they don't sell oh well!
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post #1483 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
@jlpowell84

congrats on your 4722 decision.

last I heard, @jbrown15 wanted to experiment with sealed and got a sweet deal on some subs from reaction audio. he seems to like them a lot: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post36251162

i did assist with his ported sub project. he wasn't really sure what he wanted at first, so we kicked around bunch of ideas. ultimately, we cooked up a design that placed the drivers at approx. 1/4 distance from the boundaries and vented to the side so as not to blow on the acoustically transparent screen.
his build thread is here (and he did a great job of putting the key info in the first post, so one doesn't have to read the whole thread in order to see what he did): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...sub-build.html
avs member @stsand posted a review here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post24528893 "When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever." :-)
Ok I am curious if JB is chasing single digits or just really wanted to try RA products. It seemed like those ported beasts were everything he ever wanted.
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post #1484 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
@jlpowell84

congrats on your 4722 decision.

last I heard, @jbrown15 wanted to experiment with sealed and got a sweet deal on some subs from reaction audio. he seems to like them a lot: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post36251162

i did assist with his ported sub project. he wasn't really sure what he wanted at first, so we kicked around bunch of ideas. ultimately, we cooked up a design that placed the drivers at approx. 1/4 distance from the boundaries and vented to the side so as not to blow on the acoustically transparent screen.
his build thread is here (and he did a great job of putting the key info in the first post, so one doesn't have to read the whole thread in order to see what he did): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...sub-build.html
avs member @stsand posted a review here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post24528893 "When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever." :-)
I still miss those subs John!....lol
That was more bass then anyone should even need, even in a large room. I think I was using about 20% of what they were capable of!....lol


Right now I have dual Gamma 218's and in my fully sealed 2100cubic/ft room they are more than enough. I was going to have three of them but I scratched that idea after getting them into my new room. No way I would even use that much output. And I don't have a front stage and false wall anymore to hide monster ported cabinets so a setup like that would never fly with the wife at the new house!....lol
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post #1485 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Ok I am curious if JB is chasing single digits or just really wanted to try RA products. It seemed like those ported beasts were everything he ever wanted.
The problem was when I switched from my JTR 228's to the RA CX-15's they were just to big to work with the speakers. I didn't have enough space upfront. Otherwise I would have kept them, they were awesome. And down right scary, now I have RA's dual opposed 18" design which I like but have been talking with Jeremy about switching out already....lol


If you're going to build subs I would highly suggest doing something like what I did with a ported designed tuned to about 14hz like mine were. With some EQ you could easily be flat to 10hz, which is really all you'd ever need.
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post #1486 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 11:02 PM
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The problem was when I switched from my JTR 228's to the RA CX-15's they were just to big to work with the speakers. I didn't have enough space upfront. Otherwise I would have kept them, they were awesome. And down right scary, now I have RA's dual opposed 18" design which I like but have been talking with Jeremy about switching out already....lol


If you're going to build subs I would highly suggest doing something like what I did with a ported designed tuned to about 14hz like mine were. With some EQ you could easily be flat to 10hz, which is really all you'd ever need.
Not enough bass ?
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post #1487 of 7503 Old 08-11-2015, 11:19 PM
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Not enough bass ?

No, like I mentioned I was suppose to get three of the Gamma 218's. But two is more that enough, one of my cabinet's was damaged in transit so Jeremy was going to send the third sub and another cabinet and I was going to swap the drivers and amp into the new cabinet. After a little time to think about it I think I'm going to go with four single 18's, so Jeremy will ship me four single driver cabinets and I'll use the two amps that I have and set them up as a master/slave combo. Then I'll place one sub in each corner of the room. That should be more than enough for me.
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post #1488 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Just finished listening to several of my favorite scenes from John Wick and then the gatling gun scene in Book of Eli.

I have one word to describe it...WOW!

These are the real deal for me with being a 100% HT guy.
Wide sound stage...Check!
Dynamic....YUP!
Clear dialog...best I have heard in my room.
Mid Bass....PERFECT!

Then you throw in the dual Mariana 24's and you have a hard to beat wall of theater sound. In fact, the subs had to be turned down some since they are so powerful. I really can't get over how clean these subs are...

The added bonus of enjoying my first AT screen and the LCR speakers in the same alignment are just great bonuses..

Once I get a few things tweaked in the room(change some paint, touch up some walls, add a dark piece of carpet in front of the screen and clean up some loose items that are rattling), I will be ready to post some pictures of my room.

Now I am going to enjoy my backlog of movies and stay out of the commercial theaters for awhile..
SOOO Glad to hear about this. Any chance Chad could pop in here and post his calibration results like he has before? Or do you have the room response graphs he captured that you could post? I'm just curious to see how it all turned out compared to previous setups of yours

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post #1489 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 09:31 AM
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SOOO Glad to hear about this. Any chance Chad could pop in here and post his calibration results like he has before? Or do you have the room response graphs he captured that you could post? I'm just curious to see how it all turned out compared to previous setups of yours
I will see what I can do.
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post #1490 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 09:36 AM
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Glad to hear it's all going well COACH! What was your last speaker, Seaton Cats??? Looking forward to seeing your room pics once they're up.
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post #1491 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 11:10 AM
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Glad to hear it's all going well COACH! What was your last speaker, Seaton Cats??? Looking forward to seeing your room pics once they're up.
I think Jeff's speaker path went something like this; JTR 212HT's ---> 215RT's --->Seaton Cat12's ----> JBL 4722's.


That's a lot of high end HT speakers!....lol
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post #1492 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 11:21 AM
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I think Jeff's speaker path went something like this; JTR 212HT's ---> 215RT's --->Seaton Cat12's ----> JBL 4722's.


That's a lot of high end HT speakers!....lol
That was tough to read....

Glad the search is over.
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I think Jeff's speaker path went something like this; JTR 212HT's ---> 215RT's --->Seaton Cat12's ----> JBL 4722's.


That's a lot of high end HT speakers!....lol
That's a lot of $$
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post #1494 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 11:31 AM
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That was tough to read....

Glad the search is over.
Would be interesting to see the various response curves of each speaker at LP in your room to see what type of response you were looking for.
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post #1495 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I think Jeff's speaker path went something like this; JTR 212HT's ---> 215RT's --->Seaton Cat12's ----> JBL 4722's.


That's a lot of high end HT speakers!....lol

I can relate!!


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post #1496 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 11:36 AM
 
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Would be interesting to see the various response curves of each speaker at LP in your room to see what type of response you were looking for.
That's what accurate speaker measurments are for.

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post #1497 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 12:03 PM
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That's what accurate speaker measurments are for.

Buy once. Buy right. It's way cheaper.
I was asking for measurements.

I agree with accurate measurements as they are necessary to tailor the sound to taste.

Buy once and buy right is about right, what is "right" varies from person to person.
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post #1498 of 7503 Old 08-12-2015, 12:13 PM
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I can relate!!


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Except that your list of speakers is even more expensive!....lol
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post #1499 of 7503 Old 08-13-2015, 09:04 AM
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SOOO Glad to hear about this. Any chance Chad could pop in here and post his calibration results like he has before? Or do you have the room response graphs he captured that you could post? I'm just curious to see how it all turned out compared to previous setups of yours
Here are the audio measurements. I used variable smoothing in all the attached screenshots, but during the calibration I used either no smoothing (while averaging the curves and working with the LFE channel) or either 1/12th or 1/6th octave smoothing for most other work. We wanted a very strong midbass, so I modified my normal house curve calibration goal accordingly. The LFE channel's measurement was offset by -10 dB to give correct relative matching with the other channels. While previously I had calibrated by averaging the response across the 3 front row seats, this time I took a set of 3 measurements clustered around the Main Listening Position for each channel. In other words, each channel's measurement at the exact MLP was averaged with another measurement about 6 inches to the right and 2 inches higher and another measurement about 6 inches to the left, 2 inches lower, and 2 inches forward.

I started by running Audyssey just to get an accurate distance calculation and a rough starting point for the levels. Then I turned off all Audyssey EQ, processing, and bass management, and then took the before calibration measurements of each channel. I am attaching the before calibration screenshots of all channels together and also each channel individually.

After my first calibration pass of EQ and bass management done in the NanoAVR, I retook all the measurements at the same microphone positions. I am attaching all the same after measurements. I always leave an EQ band free in each channel of the NanoAVR to allow for some final tweaking, so the first pass is made utilizing 9 of the 10 available parametric EQ bands. I made a few tweaks to many of the channels based on these after calibration results and will list the tweaks here. In other words, these after calibration results are close to, but not quite the final results, because they do not incluse the final tweaks listed below.

Final tweaks were:
Left: tweaked bass management to smooth and raise mid/upper bass, added eq band 730 Hz, 2.5Q, -.8 dB
Right: lowered relative level by 1.5 dB, added eq band High Shelf, 10KHz, +1.9 dB
Center: left alone
LFE: added eq band at 34 Hz, Q2, -3 dB (going by memory, this was determined in the listening tests where we determined there was too much bass)
Rear left: tweaked bass management
Rear right: added eq band 2551 Hz, 8 Q, +3 dB
Left surround and right surround: left alone
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cdy2179, NWCgrad and beastaudio like this.

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Last edited by Chad B; 08-13-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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post #1500 of 7503 Old 08-13-2015, 10:33 AM
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Thank you Chad for posting these.

I am sure these will make more sense to the majority of the people on here.

Guys - Chad does PHENOMENAL work on both audio and video. That is why I have been using him for he last 11 years to calibrate every system I have had(and I have had quite a bit in different homes/apartments). He always works with me in trying to achieve the sound I am searching for in my room....no matter how long it takes. Can't say enough about the job he does.

Even if those graphs don't look "ideal" to everybody, I am 100% pleased with my system and the way it sounds.
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