SVS Prime Bookshelf 5.1 System Official AVS Forum Review - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 99 Old 12-02-2016, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Thanks, I have a feeling that my current Yamaha AVR has a SQ that makes the primes sound a bit too forward/bright/slightly harsh.

I'm considering a Denon AVR-X3300W next holiday season. I've read that it has a warmer sound that rolls off the top end to make it smoother and easier on the ears vs. the competing Yamaha Aventage AVRs like the 1060.

I also want it for the Audyssey XT32, since my version of YPAO is basically unusable in terms of SQ and dones little to improve the bass and midrange.

How do you like your X4200?

I'm currently using cheaper Sony Bookshelves as side surrounds in a 5.1 setup. Do you think getting Prime Bookshelves as side surrounds to match my Prime Bookshelves and center fronts would be worth the money in terms of overall performance and SQ?
Actually, I don't like my 4200 much. Sounds good for Movies, but I just don't care for how it handles music transient response. Just not as clean sounding as other amps I've had. It does a good job with surround material and I like the way it processes cable Dolby stereo into surround. I bought it for the Audyssey HT....all the features never fully functioned. I made multiple calls to Denon and had to hang up before talking to anyone. Denon support is probably the worst product support I've encountered in a couple of decades. Spent hours trying to connect to my home network which should have been as easy as seek and connect, but became an unachievable nightmare.Yesterday I had some time and figured I'd do a "hard" usb firmware update thinking that might solve my other issues and it froze in an update mode and after another hour waiting on the phone, I was told there was no factory reset for that condition and the unit must be sent to service center. Now since It happened to me I did a little research and found out a lot of folks had/have the same issues. Of course Denon denies that these are known issues and nothing pisses me off more than a company denying an issue that many unsatisfied customers are currently posting online. So it's off to Chicago for fixn" Spoke to the service center today and they told me 10 days to get to it, it will need parts, and the Denon's are notorious for bad network boards and not the quickest for parts. So at the 60 day point, I'm replacing parts that never worked with no provision for refund or replacement and they wouldn't even pick up the shipping cost for repair....Shame on Denon. If I'm lucky I might see it again by end of year. Regardless of my situation, I think it's inards are cheap and lightweight compared to another my older Denon made in Japan, a made in Japan Yamaha I have and my trusty 4 year old, and once again made in Japan Onkyo. I know that circuits and power supplies have gotten more efficient and lighter but the Denon only weighs 17 pounds whereas all the others weigh over 30 pounds. My opinion is AVRs are just way to complex...it has a dozen features I don't give a flip about yet it has like 7 HDMI connections and no digital optic out.....and no reset for a feature known to freeze up. Unless it pays my electric bill and gives me a massage when and if I get it back it will be the last product I ever buy from Denon. Thanks for askin'

Last edited by JonfromCB; 12-02-2016 at 09:33 PM.
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post #92 of 99 Old 12-03-2016, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Thanks, I have a feeling that my current Yamaha AVR has a SQ that makes the primes sound a bit too forward/bright/slightly harsh.

I'm considering a Denon AVR-X3300W next holiday season. I've read that it has a warmer sound that rolls off the top end to make it smoother and easier on the ears vs. the competing Yamaha Aventage AVRs like the 1060.

I also want it for the Audyssey XT32, since my version of YPAO is basically unusable in terms of SQ and dones little to improve the bass and midrange.

How do you like your X4200?

I'm currently using cheaper Sony Bookshelves as side surrounds in a 5.1 setup. Do you think getting Prime Bookshelves as side surrounds to match my Prime Bookshelves and center fronts would be worth the money in terms of overall performance and SQ?
Actually, I don't like my 4200 much. Sounds good for Movies, but I just don't care for how it handles music transient response. Just not as clean sounding as other amps I've had. It does a good job with surround material and I like the way it processes cable Dolby stereo into surround. I bought it for the Audyssey HT....all the features never fully functioned. I made multiple calls to Denon and had to hang up before talking to anyone. Denon support is probably the worst product support I've encountered in a couple of decades. Spent hours trying to connect to my home network which should have been as easy as seek and connect, but became an unachievable nightmare.Yesterday I had some time and figured I'd do a "hard" usb firmware update thinking that might solve my other issues and it froze in an update mode and after another hour waiting on the phone, I was told there was no factory reset for that condition and the unit must be sent to service center. Now since It happened to me I did a little research and found out a lot of folks had/have the same issues. Of course Denon denies that these are known issues and nothing pisses me off more than a company denying an issue that many unsatisfied customers are currently posting online. So it's off to Chicago for fixn" Spoke to the service center today and they told me 10 days to get to it, it will need parts, and the Denon's are notorious for bad network boards and not the quickest for parts. So at the 60 day point, I'm replacing parts that never worked with no provision for refund or replacement and they wouldn't even pick up the shipping cost for repair....Shame on Denon. If I'm lucky I might see it again by end of year. Regardless of my situation, I think it's inards are cheap and lightweight compared to another my older Denon made in Japan, a made in Japan Yamaha I have and my trusty 4 year old, and once again made in Japan Onkyo. I know that circuits and power supplies have gotten more efficient and lighter but the Denon only weighs 17 pounds whereas all the others weigh over 30 pounds. My opinion is AVRs are just way to complex...it has a dozen features I don't give a flip about yet it has like 7 HDMI connections and no digital optic out.....and no reset for a feature known to freeze up. Unless it pays my electric bill and gives me a massage when and if I get it back it will be the last product I ever buy from Denon. Thanks for askin'
Sorry to hear about your issues with the Denon AVR. I still really want one for the Audyssey XT32. I don't think YPAO on the Aventage 860 or 1060 is on par with the X3300W's Audyssey XT32. Ditto with Pioneer's MCACC not being as good either.

Though I do plan on buying from somewhere with an excellent return policy and reputable extended warranty.
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post #93 of 99 Old 12-03-2016, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Sorry to hear about your issues with the Denon AVR. I still really want one for the Audyssey XT32. I don't think YPAO on the Aventage 860 or 1060 is on par with the X3300W's Audyssey XT32. Ditto with Pioneer's MCACC not being as good either.

Though I do plan on buying from somewhere with an excellent return policy and reputable extended warranty.
Hey bud, if you're mind is set on Audyssey XT32 then I'd personally look at a Marantz. I've had 2 Denon's in the past & while they worked mechanically, the sound quality to me was not all that great. Personally, I wouldn't trade my Yamaha CX-A5000 for anything currently....I'm running that with an Anti-Mode 8033Sii.

Good luck!
Carmine.
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post #94 of 99 Old 12-04-2016, 07:29 AM
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That's weird... I read a bunch of official/professional reviews on the 3300W and Aventage 1060 and both were praised for SQ in movies and music. However, the 3300W had an easier to use menu interface and better room correction.

Is the Marantz alot better than the Denon? because the XT32 version is a lot pricier than 3300W as it is a 9.2ch model.
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post #95 of 99 Old 12-04-2016, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
That's weird... I read a bunch of official/professional reviews on the 3300W and Aventage 1060 and both were praised for SQ in movies and music. However, the 3300W had an easier to use menu interface and better room correction.

Is the Marantz alot better than the Denon? because the XT32 version is a lot pricier than 3300W as it is a 9.2ch model.
Plasma' Denon/Marantz is one company, Design/parts overlap creep at the AVR product level is getting greater every year. Two other biggies just combined, I can't remember if it was Sony and Pioneer, or Yamaha and Pioneer, or even Onkyo, but it was some combination of two of them...point is, expect even more of the same "make it cheap as possible" design/parts overlap. Hopefully, one of them will get back to more solidly built audio based AVRs. I agree Denon has an advantage with customers wanting Audyssey HT. I agree it is a better equalization system than YPAO, MCACC or Onkyo's proprietary system. I fell for it, I admit it, I bought a Denon for the Audyssey HT and like many, when I finally got around to using all the features, shortly after the return period, I learned the hard way that I was sold a new AVR with features that didn't work and now I'm stuck with another very expensive Asian antique that is broken.

We all have to be careful of Professional reviews based on the reviewer being presented information by the manufacturer and/or the reviewers being brought into a manufacturer set-up system/presentation for a couple of hours and then goes home and writes a glowing review carefully supported by spec's and graphs that were handed to them.....which are most of the reviews pushed in our faces when we do a computer search. Then, the savy customer does an internet search... "problems/complaints with product XXXX" and quickly learns that these products with glowing reviews have a 30-40 percent return/failure rate within a year. Just look at all the brand new owner reviews claiming their new toy is the absolute best product available based on their extensive research and 5 days of ownership....Then compare what owners have to say after having the product for a year. Many times you get a different picture real fast.

Carminepesce, Please tell us more about your Anti-mode 8033Sii.

Generally speaking the Yamaha and Sony AVRs are built like tanks and there are better outboard ways to equalize and still use your Sony or Yamaha
.
Personally, I don't like how AVR designers are in a war to computerize AVRs. I don't need/want 11 channels, wireless connectivity and Atmos (which I predict based on listening will go the way of 3D, as most of time it just muddies up the soundstage and the entire God given psyco-acoustic perception). Don't want/need decoding for Spotify and/or 6 other streaming services...or even streaming capability for that matter....we can already do all of that on our phones or tablets so why not use those connected to our AVR's instead of putting second rate cards/boards and additional signal distorters in the AVRs? Same goes for all the video processing being put into AVRs....90% of it is redundant...My Oppo, heck even my projector does a better job already. I will go so far to estimate that more than 95% of AVR owners pass their video signals straight through their AVR, yet how much additional cost are we all bearing for electronics that will never be used?

....point is I'm looking for a "no chit" 5.1 or 7.1 AV processor with straight through video, USB to attach a notebook with an outboard equalization program and music libarary, and I can blue tooth instructions to that notebook more reliably than to any AVR I've seen. Hook that up to a solid stand alone 5 or 7 channel amp. Slighly more expensive, but should be more reliable and I won't loose my entire HT for weeks/months because of some unused cheap and needless part once again putting my AVR out of commission. I had to have "Audyssey HT"and Denon was the cheapest way to get it... and OOPS, I did it again....shame on me. Boy it sounded good for 50 of the 59 days I had it.

LOL...but I really like my SVS speakers....and a real expert picks up the phone at SVS every time I've called. The Primes are a really good HT content speaker system and a much better than expected for the price music speaker. Rant over, have a nice day.

Last edited by JonfromCB; 12-04-2016 at 10:21 AM.
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post #96 of 99 Old 12-04-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Plasma' Denon/Marantz is one company, Design/parts overlap creep at the AVR product level is getting greater every year. Two other biggies just combined, I can't remember if it was Sony and Pioneer, or Yamaha and Pioneer, or even Onkyo, but it was some combination of two of them...point is, expect even more of the same "make it cheap as possible" design/parts overlap. Hopefully, one of them will get back to more solidly built audio based AVRs. I agree Denon has an advantage with customers wanting Audyssey HT. I agree it is a better equalization system than YPAO, MCACC or Onkyo's proprietary system. I fell for it, I admit it, I bought a Denon for the Audyssey HT and like many, when I finally got around to using all the features, shortly after the return period, I learned the hard way that I was sold a new AVR with features that didn't work and now I'm stuck with another very expensive Asian antique that is broken.

We all have to be careful of Professional reviews based on the reviewer being presented information by the manufacturer and/or the reviewers being brought into a manufacturer set-up system/presentation for a couple of hours and then goes home and writes a glowing review carefully supported by spec's and graphs that were handed to them.....which are most of the reviews pushed in our faces when we do a computer search. Then, the savy customer does an internet search... "problems/complaints with product XXXX" and quickly learns that these products with glowing reviews have a 30-40 percent return/failure rate within a year. Just look at all the brand new owner reviews claiming their new toy is the absolute best product available based on their extensive research and 5 days of ownership....Then compare what owners have to say after having the product for a year. Many times you get a different picture real fast.

Carminepesce, Please tell us more about your Anti-mode 8033Sii.

Generally speaking the Yamaha and Sony AVRs are built like tanks and there are better outboard ways to equalize and still use your Sony or Yamaha
.
Personally, I don't like how AVR designers are in a war to computerize AVRs. I don't need/want 11 channels, wireless connectivity and Atmos (which I predict based on listening will go the way of 3D, as most of time it just muddies up the soundstage and the entire God given psyco-acoustic perception). Don't want/need decoding for Spotify and/or 6 other streaming services...or even streaming capability for that matter....we can already do all of that on our phones or tablets so why not use those connected to our AVR's instead of putting second rate cards/boards and additional signal distorters in the AVRs? Same goes for all the video processing being put into AVRs....90% of it is redundant...My Oppo, heck even my projector does a better job already. I will go so far to estimate that more than 95% of AVR owners pass their video signals straight through their AVR, yet how much additional cost are we all bearing for electronics that will never be used?

....point is I'm looking for a "no chit" 5.1 or 7.1 AV processor with straight through video, USB to attach a notebook with an outboard equalization program and music libarary, and I can blue tooth instructions to that notebook more reliably than to any AVR I've seen. Hook that up to a solid stand alone 5 or 7 channel amp. Slighly more expensive, but should be more reliable and I won't loose my entire HT for weeks/months because of some unused cheap and needless part once again putting my AVR out of commission. I had to have "Audyssey HT"and Denon was the cheapest way to get it... and OOPS, I did it again....shame on me. Boy it sounded good for 50 of the 59 days I had it.

LOL...but I really like my SVS speakers....and a real expert picks up the phone at SVS every time I've called. The Primes are a really good HT content speaker system and a much better than expected for the price music speaker. Rant over, have a nice day.
Yes Jon, I agree that although Denon/Marantz are the same company the Marantz has been known for slightly better performance. The other 2 that recently merged are Pioneer & Onkyo. Yamaha AVR's are well known for rock solid performance & reliability...As far as anti-mode 8033, it works seamlessly with taming nasty peaks & resonances that Yamaha's YPAO has a tough time dealing with as it only goes as low as 31Hz with correction. I also love my Prime system but I will say it takes a lot of time & patience with placement to get that really good performance. Jon if you're looking for a simple but high-performance AV processor have you checked out the Outlaw 975?
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post #97 of 99 Old 05-18-2017, 02:53 PM
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I can't make sense of this review. The Primes are "bookshelf" speakers, aren't they? There's a distinction in this review that escapes me. The embedded hyperlinks lead to eBay, which features unrelated products.
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post #98 of 99 Old 05-18-2017, 03:30 PM
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I can't make sense of this review. The Primes are "bookshelf" speakers, aren't they? There's a distinction in this review that escapes me. The embedded hyperlinks lead to eBay, which features unrelated products.
This review is for the Prime Bookshelf surround system, which comes with Prime Bookshelf and Center for the front and Prime Satellites for surround.

I think a third party adds hyperlinks, based on keywords or something, they never seem to work right.

Here is a link to the system the OP reviewed (sub-woofer not included).

https://www.svsound.com/products/pri...urround-system

Last edited by pcfriedrich; 05-18-2017 at 03:39 PM.
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post #99 of 99 Old 11-09-2017, 01:56 PM
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Mark,

It may be too late to chime in and actually have other members still visiting this thread, but I just had to let you know that I replaced my "main" and "surround" speakers (Cambridge Soundworks MC305s and Ambiance) with the SVS Prime Bookshelf and Prime Center and I couldn't be happier. (I already had the SVS Prime Elevation speakers and the SVS PC-12 sub.) Your review was one of the reasons I decided to purchase them. My, I can't believe what I've been missing! I am finding myself getting immersed in my CD collection once again. The sound-stage is very transparent and immersive and I'm hearing subtle nuances that I had never heard before. I'm still in the "break-in stage," but I'm already HOOKED. Can't wait to start "listening" to my UHD Blu-rays with Dolby Atmos or DTS:X mixes!!

Here is a picture of my setup:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1510264539
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LG OLED 77C8...Denon X4300H 9.2 AVR...LG UHD UBK90 (Dolby Vision BDP)...Philips UHD BDP-7501...Toshiba HD-A30...Dish Hopper 3...Roku Premiere Plus...Harmony One

5.2.4 Set-up: SVS Prime Bookshelf Speakers (4)...SVS Prime Center...SVS Prime Elevation (4)...SVS PC-2000 & PC12-NSD Subs

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