Why the criticism of Bose? - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 496 Old 08-05-2015, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
200Hz is going to be very directional due to human physiology. There's nothing Bose can do about that, I agree that it's undesirable, and I wouldn't buy such a system.

Other than that, I don't know that any of your other criticism is justified. I haven't seen any evidence that Bose's subwoofer or satellites struggle at 200Hz.
The directionality of >80 Hz frequencies has nothing to do with psychology, it has everything to do with physiology. Bose could remedy this by making a good speaker system, but that would mean less net profit per system. Another thing, if Orb satellites can not handle sub 200 Hz frequencies well, you better believe Bose won't. Orb is using much better drivers than Bose, but there is only so much little drivers can do.
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post #392 of 496 Old 08-05-2015, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
The Apple analogy has come up a few times in this thread and it is not good.

iPhones have always been exceptional products that are measurably better than the competition in most ways.

For example, check out Anandtech's review of the iPhone 6. This is a well-regarded tech web site that shows that the iPhone has a faster processor, better battery life, better display, better camera, and better audio quality than almost all of its competition.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8554/the-iphone-6-review

Anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent here, but the point is that Apple isn't selling snake oil. Their products are provably excellent and shouldn't be used as an example of customers being duped by marketing.
When I said "functions as well as..." I meant in more broad terms, core functionality. An iphone 6 isn't any better at making phone calls than a new android phone, nor general web browsing, nor anything else that you would consider core functionality for a phone, yet it comes with a 25% (or more) price premium, why? Ok so they may have packed in a few more pixels and a few more MHz but so what?

I never said Apple (or Bose) were selling snake oil, I said they're selling aesthetics, some customers may be duped into thinking aesthetics=functionality but most (especially in the case of Apple) are more or less aware they're paying a bit extra for the iphone name and the sleek look and that's perfectly fine.

Apple is selling an image, its fashion more than technology (or at least the majority of their customers view it that way), at the end of the day its all marketing, for better or for worse. If you still don't believe me look at the profit margin on Apple's hardware vs. Samsung or LG, Apple's is much bigger because people will pay that bit extra for the Apple brandname.
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post #393 of 496 Old 08-05-2015, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
Bose Acoustimass
.
.
SALES - consistently no. 1 top selling compact surround sound system until today as compared to other high end home speaker system. High resale value. Most people will say wow if you have this bose in your house. This is maybe due to strategic marketing of bose.
... and most people who do have Bose in their house say WOW when they come to my place and realise they could've had (at least) twice the performance for half the price.

It's a quite modest PSB/Onkyo setup... you're welcome to pop over any time.
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post #394 of 496 Old 08-05-2015, 09:49 PM
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My laugh for the day

Arenas don't use Bose because they are too expensive. In arena sound, club sound etc--it is a business and you must abide by the contract to finish the job. To play at that level, you must provide complete and accurate specifications along with gear designed to perform that specific function. It is not installed by a bunch of yocals stacking boxes on top of each other until it is loud enough--there is engineering, testing, certification involved before tons of gear is flown--this would explain why they don't use full range speakers etc.

It is not "audiophile testing" it is sound testing and that is always used for concert systems, sports arenas and specific buildings that have multiple acoustic problems. The 7 figure cost to do a stadium is the cost of doing business, it is either right or wrong and the Bose 801 (901 with only 8 drivers) need not to apply even if they paint it black.

Here is a good link to learn about how audio works and why certain things are made the way they are. Enjoy the read!

http://education.lenardaudio.com/en/
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post #395 of 496 Old 08-05-2015, 11:47 PM
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Nothing can outperform a BOSE lifestyle system with in the same physical footprint or smaller.

That's the bottom-line...

#UltimateWAF
#BFL
#nevertrustsomeonesopinioniftheycantspellcorrectly orstringtogetherasentenceusingcorrectgrammar

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post #396 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Nothing can outperform a BOSE lifestyle system with in the same physical footprint or smaller.

That's the bottom-line...

#UltimateWAF
#BFL
#nevertrustsomeonesopinioniftheycantspellcorrectly orstringtogetherasentenceusingcorrectgrammar

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Bose Satellites are nearly the last speakers I would pick for that size. Orb Audio, Bang and Olufsen Beolabs would likely be better. Best satellite speaker I have heard were some Heliums, they would blow away any Bose lifestyle speaker.
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post #397 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Since the graph is logarithmic, adding the lines together isn't straightforward.

But, look at where the lines for the sub and satellites cross over, at ~200Hz. They meet at -7 dB.

Since -10 dB is perceived as half as loud, adding two -7 dB lines is going to get you roughly back up to 0, if not a bit above, right?

I wasn't thinking about the top end, that doesn't seem great. But the article makes a big deal about the apparent suckout at ~200Hz which I'm pretty sure doesn't actually exist.
The fact that the FR are log plots doesn't makes the gap between 150-250hz any better. Anyway you slice the cheese, the BA FR plot is down +/- 3 db for almost 150 hz in the 150-250 hz range. Not good. But hey, if you want to keep arguing the Bose are the bomb, go for it.
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post #398 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 05:32 AM
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The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.
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post #399 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
... while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands ...
Now THAT is funny. Troll level 7.9.
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post #400 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.
You have made a VERY INACCURATE statement! While Bose might have/be one of the top selling brands, the sale of all other speaker brands combine is 50-100 times more sales than Bose. Polk has sales that are pretty close to Bose.
in fact, world wide, Bose ranks 4th in speaker sales revenue, behind Harmon, Dynaaudio and B&W. Bose hasn't even been #1 in sales in ten years and recently dropped to 4th on the list.

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post #401 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
The fact that the FR are log plots doesn't makes the gap between 150-250hz any better. Anyway you slice the cheese, the BA FR plot is down +/- 3 db for almost 150 hz in the 150-250 hz range. Not good. But hey, if you want to keep arguing the Bose are the bomb, go for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.

I'd rather have the sliced cheese.
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post #402 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.
That is a statement of fact, do you have any proof of that statement, perhaps you need to zip up your fly, I think your conformational bias is showing.
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post #403 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
Bose Acoustimass

DESIGN - sleek and elegant, virtually disappears in the living room. Ease of connecting wires as it is properly labeled. Very neat when installed.

PRICE - if u think it is expensive, then it is. If u think it is just right price, then it is. You are the judge.

SOUND - pleasing to ears and comfortable for long period of listening without hearing fatigue. Stereo sound presence almost everywhere within the room. Bass module virtually disappears as the sound appear to come from the tiny cubes.

PERFORMANCE - performed intelligible sound at very low and high volume. Bass module seem don't have distortion and can place the module anywhere within the room without compromising the bass output.

AUDIOPHILE TEST - give poor results using testing equipment. The system depends only on hearing test by the consumer if failure or passed.

DURABILITY - equally the same with other high end products of same price range. I have seen 1990s acoustimass but still sound good and bass kicking until today.

SALES - consistently no. 1 top selling compact surround sound system until today as compared to other high end home speaker system. High resale value. Most people will say wow if you have this bose in your house. This is maybe due to strategic marketing of bose.
Are you for real?

- "Ease of connecting wires as it is properly labeled" - How difficult is (+) and (-)?
- "AUDIOPHILE TEST - give poor results using testing equipment. The system depends only on hearing test by the consumer if failure or passed."

Be seeing you!
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Bose can make junk but some of their stuff is impressive within the context of its application.

Their tiny radio for example. It has more bass and spaciousness than 99%-100% of anything else in its particular class.

I won't grind them too hard. It fills a niche.
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
You have made a VERY INACCURATE statement! While Bose might have/be one of the top selling brands, the sale of all other speaker brands combine is 50-100 times more sales than Bose. Polk has sales that are pretty close to Bose.
in fact, world wide, Bose ranks 4th in speaker sales revenue, behind Harmon, Dynaaudio and B&W. Bose hasn't even been #1 in sales in ten years and recently dropped to 4th on the list.
Bose revenues were 2.97 billion dollars in 2014, and half of that came from the auto OEM business.
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post #406 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:47 AM
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post #407 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine View Post
Bose can make junk but some of their stuff is impressive within the context of its application.

Their tiny radio for example. It has more bass and spaciousness than 99%-100% of anything else in its particular class.

I won't grind them too hard. It fills a niche.
I assume you are referring to the Wave Radio? If so, I completely disagree. It is an overpriced piece of garbage. I bought a new Panasonic plasma TV and wanted better sound than the tiny TV speakers. I thought I would connect the Wave radio to be used until I purchased a real 3.1 system. I couldn't believe that the Wave radio sounded much worse than the TV speakers. The bass you refer to is actually muddy lower midrange, and there is an absolute lack of treble and clarity. No thanks.

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post #408 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine View Post
Bose can make junk but some of their stuff is impressive within the context of its application.

Their tiny radio for example. It has more bass and spaciousness than 99%-100% of anything else in its particular class.

I won't grind them too hard. It fills a niche.
Maybe.
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post #409 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:55 AM
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I assume you are referring to the Wave Radio? If so, I completely disagree. It is an overpriced piece of garbage. I bought a new Panasonic plasma TV and wanted better sound than the tiny TV speakers. I thought I would connect the Wave radio to be used until I purchased a real 3.1 system. I couldn't believe that the Wave radio sounded much worse than the TV speakers. The bass you refer to is actually muddy lower midrange, and there is an absolute lack of treble and clarity. No thanks.
maybe. your opinion is well respected.
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post #410 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:57 AM
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This one always makes me laugh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WEdZrUlcbE
crap
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post
Are you for real?

- "Ease of connecting wires as it is properly labeled" - How difficult is (+) and (-)?
- "AUDIOPHILE TEST - give poor results using testing equipment. The system depends only on hearing test by the consumer if failure or passed."
Acoustimass 10 V - very nice design and elegant. Very excellent!
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Originally Posted by Laika View Post
That is a statement of fact, do you have any proof of that statement, perhaps you need to zip up your fly, I think your conformational bias is showing.
we have to accept, its the fact.
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
I'd rather have the sliced cheese.
.....then relax watching movie using acoustimass 5.1
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post #414 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Excellent analysis, PrimeTime! I purchased a pair of 901s Series II back in the early 70s. But to get the sound I was after, I had to hang them from the ceilings, had an audio friend with a pink noise generator, and drilled numerous holes in my ceiling until I and the print out graph were happy (I could never get them to sound good on pedestals). I bought a McIntosh 200 watt amp to “help” drive them when I found out my Pioneer integrated amp cried (the 901s sucked up power like a vacuum cleaner sucks up dirt … I could have used 1 kilowatt/channel). My audio friend sold Bose at his high-end store, but didn’t like them. Once they were properly setup, he ask if he could bring potential clients to my home for auditions.

Long story short, I actually enjoyed them for over two decades. They did indeed present a whole wall of sound and its bass capabilities were surprising. They were a great speaker for parties and dancing (I use to have a lot of parties at my house). For critical listening, there were positives and negatives. Unfortunately, this type of sound is difficult to quantify with specs, and publications hammered them. Bose, in its idiot wisdom, decided not to publish specs from that time forward. Dr. Bose was very forward-thinking in an audio world filled with static, textbook designs of the time, making him and his designs very controversial.

Fast forward to today: they are known for their marketing genius only. And the price per sound ratio (bang-for-buck) has diminished for decades, to the point it’s almost non-existent. I wouldn’t own Bose today. I could have received 60 % off for a new pair of 901s by sending them my old pair (the surrounds of my pair were piled up in the bottom of the cabinet). I decided wisely to go in a new direction. But the truth is, Bose influenced my current speaker selection because of that huge soundstage. People today hate everything Bose, and probably rightfully so. All I can say is that there was a time when Bose actually had some good sounding speakers that didn’t cost an arm and a leg.
Way back in the last century (mid 80's), when I was looking at new speakers, it came down to the Bose 901s or Klipsch Cornwalls. I choose the Cornwalls, but I can still remember how impressed I was with the 901s, and I do remember that "wall of sound." I have thought many times "should I have bought the 901s?" I can't answer that question even today except to say that I still have the Cornwalls, and I was able to keep adding to my speaker collection using Klipschs. Had I bought the 901s, I am not convinced that I would have kept the 901s, and I don't know if they would have transitioned into home theater.

I bought a Bose cd/radio for the kitchen; the sound is impressive. I have listened to many Bose systems in retail establishments and homes. The good news is they do not take up as much territory as the system I have built; my wife would probably prefer Bose. In addition, the Bose systems sound pretty good. I don't know how to compare the Bose systems to other products. Others have done a good job on that score in this thread.

A Bose system would not satisfy my audio appetite for a number of reasons; some of which have nothing to do with quality sound. I like to tinker with my stuff, and when one buys a complete system in a box, it is hard to change the configuration once it has been installed. Without going into too much detail, I am not crazy about the Bose sound. It sounds over processed to me. I know that is just my ears speaking. I have friends who love their Bose systems, and their wives agree.

If I were to install a sound system in my bedroom, or any small room, I might choose Bose. Those little tiny speakers still put out a great "wall of sound".

Last edited by Alanlee; 08-06-2015 at 10:05 AM. Reason: typ0
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post #415 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
You have made a VERY INACCURATE statement! While Bose might have/be one of the top selling brands, the sale of all other speaker brands combine is 50-100 times more sales than Bose. Polk has sales that are pretty close to Bose.
in fact, world wide, Bose ranks 4th in speaker sales revenue, behind Harmon, Dynaaudio and B&W. Bose hasn't even been #1 in sales in ten years and recently dropped to 4th on the list.
its accurate, you have to filter out categories
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post #416 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GreySkies View Post
Now THAT is funny. Troll level 7.9.
trust me, its a fact
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Bose Satellites are nearly the last speakers I would pick for that size. Orb Audio, Bang and Olufsen Beolabs would likely be better. Best satellite speaker I have heard were some Heliums, they would blow away any Bose lifestyle speaker.
its a matter of choice. you have to select which one is best value for you. But remember bose that you will pick lastly is the speaker that most people sought after. your choice.
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My laugh for the day

Arenas don't use Bose because they are too expensive. In arena sound, club sound etc--it is a business and you must abide by the contract to finish the job. To play at that level, you must provide complete and accurate specifications along with gear designed to perform that specific function. It is not installed by a bunch of yocals stacking boxes on top of each other until it is loud enough--there is engineering, testing, certification involved before tons of gear is flown--this would explain why they don't use full range speakers etc.

It is not "audiophile testing" it is sound testing and that is always used for concert systems, sports arenas and specific buildings that have multiple acoustic problems. The 7 figure cost to do a stadium is the cost of doing business, it is either right or wrong and the Bose 801 (901 with only 8 drivers) need not to apply even if they paint it black.

Here is a good link to learn about how audio works and why certain things are made the way they are. Enjoy the read!

http://education.lenardaudio.com/en/
laughter is always the best medicine. go on with laughing. OMG during last Olympics in Greece, its stadiums were all installed with Bose systems!
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post #419 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
its accurate, you have to filter out categories
Agreed. If you filter out every audiophile system, every sonically accurate system and every system that provides high value per dollar and Bose rises to the top.
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post #420 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:18 AM
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CAN'T WE JUST LET THIS POINTLESS THREAD DIE??

I don't believe this troll has any intention of rational discussion, he is only interested in pushing his BOSE is great agenda..
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