Why the criticism of Bose? - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:22 AM
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I think people who hates bose are only found in the internet blogs and forums. In reality, when go house to house to determine the likeness of consumers, they are satisfied with bose. Try to go to electronic stores that are selling used speakers, u will seldom see bose, because most owners are keeping it with them.
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post #422 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.
MY REPLY
That is a statement of fact, do you have any proof of that statement,

YOUR RESPONSE?
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
we have to accept, its the fact.
Now you are just trolling, have fun with your tweeterless speakers and earthshaking mid-range module.
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post #423 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post
Agreed. If you filter out every audiophile system, every sonically accurate system and every system that provides high value per dollar and Bose rises to the top.

It is already well known from audiophiles enthusiasts that bose always gave very poor results using sophisticated audio measurements. So bose no good, that's fine. But one cannot argue that bose is keep on selling. Their marketing maybe is really good.
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post #424 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Laika View Post
MY REPLY
That is a statement of fact, do you have any proof of that statement,

YOUR RESPONSE?


Now you are just trolling, have fun with your tweeterless speakers and earthshaking mid-range module.

ok that's fine. but im not trolling.
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post #425 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:29 AM
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15 pages of this nonsense. Enuff already...

TAM
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post #426 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
laughter is always the best medicine. go on with laughing. OMG during last Olympics in Greece, its stadiums were all installed with Bose systems!
Now I understand Greece's debt crisis.
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post #427 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by justthinking View Post
CAN'T WE JUST LET THIS POINTLESS THREAD DIE??

I don't believe this troll has any intention of rational discussion, he is only interested in pushing his BOSE is great agenda..
yeah better let this thread die. The fact I don't even owned any bose product. But one sure I cannot understand why in the internet blogs and forums so many hardlined bose bashers (I think only bose product they hates this way, no one others). But it doesn't equate to the sales bose that it generates. If you say due to marketing, but that's a part of the game, right?.


One blogger said 50bucks of china made unknown brand speaker is better than 1000bucks of bose Acoustimass! what the f. is this?
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post #428 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
trust me, its a fact
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
but im not trolling.
1. Trust is earned, and you've earned none; you've no credibility.
2. If you're not trolling, provide references for the 'facts' you're citing.

While I often enjoy arguing with a troll, you're quickly becoming tiresome due to your circuitous nonsensical arguments where you are clearly confusing confirmation bias with facts.
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post #429 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Manamb View Post
Now I understand Greece's debt crisis.
omg another stadium in Japan have installed Bose system. Japan has all the big speaker manufacturers of different brands in the world, but this stadium chose bose from America. Maybe they just try if ok or not, but of course they have to spend right.
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post #430 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 09:58 AM
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Do you want an example of wise spending on a Stadium sound system?
Take a look at this stadium in 3rd world country with low budget that choose one of the best brand of speakers also made in the USA:
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/portf...eball-stadium/
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post #431 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:10 AM
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I am not defending Bose here. I am defending something to make things straighten up. Because of all readings recently I found in many blogs and forums showing a very very deep emotional hate against bose that seem become a very personal thing to hate a non-living thing "sound system". Sometimes, I am thinking my uncle is right, Bose bashing and hating in the internet has now become a cult. Its very serious now, but on the other hand the product is keep on selling.
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post #432 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
omg another stadium in Japan have installed Bose system. Japan has all the big speaker manufacturers of different brands in the world, but this stadium chose bose from America. Maybe they just try if ok or not, but of course they have to spend right.
Is the post or pre-installation?
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post #433 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
The directionality of >80 Hz frequencies has nothing to do with psychology, it has everything to do with physiology. Bose could remedy this by making a good speaker system, but that would mean less net profit per system. Another thing, if Orb satellites can not handle sub 200 Hz frequencies well, you better believe Bose won't. Orb is using much better drivers than Bose, but there is only so much little drivers can do.
Read my post again--I already wrote physiology, not psychology.

So the small Bose speakers start to roll off around 200Hz. I've seen the FR plots of plenty of small speakers (e.g., portable Bluetooth speakers) that roll off around 200Hz. It seems like this is normal and should probably be expected.

I don't know why people would expect the Bose satellites to "cough up blood" at their crossover frequency when it seems like a perfectly normal thing that we would all happily accept if we were talking about any other speaker company.

Don't get me wrong (as some people already have) -- I am not defending Bose. I am simply finding fault with an anti-Bose article.

If people are really interested in attacking Bose, then we should make sure that the attacks are well-founded. We hate it when Bose fans make unsubstantiated claims about Bose sound quality, but how are we any better if we're going to misread FR plots and make unfounded claims about their satellites struggling to play at 200Hz?
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post #434 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Five28 View Post
I assume you are referring to the Wave Radio? If so, I completely disagree. It is an overpriced piece of garbage. I bought a new Panasonic plasma TV and wanted better sound than the tiny TV speakers. I thought I would connect the Wave radio to be used until I purchased a real 3.1 system. I couldn't believe that the Wave radio sounded much worse than the TV speakers. The bass you refer to is actually muddy lower midrange, and there is an absolute lack of treble and clarity. No thanks.
I've not heard the wave radio, but I think it's priced above the bose sound dock II I have. We had an issue with the tv speakers of a flat screen we bought as well, and so I tried using the dock as the main speaker. I blew the tv speakers away, it wasn't subtle.
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post #435 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:22 AM
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I find all this odd,

Pro is obviously young, I would suspect a teen by his writing style. When I was that age, I knew who Bose was but never heard their stuff. A few years later I did and didn't understand the draw. Weak bass response, lumpy midrange and the top octave was not there.

Decades go by and Bose is still producing the same thing but music has changed to become very bass heavy. Bose seeing sales declines would be an obvious result as their stuff can't dig down far enough for EDM, movie effects and rap tunes. Granted, Bose is not marketed to teenagers, bass heads or THX level theater frequency response or SPL requirements--it is to be expected.

Retuned my garage subs two days ago, had to test the entire system to make sure it will hold up to 116dB at the seated position. Ran the tune below for 90 minutes in the summer heat to make sure the amplifers would not shut down or my speakers fail. No shut downs, no speaker failures as the DIY brand never lets me down. The red limiter lights fired up at the end of the song so be careful out there!

So Pro... throw this on for an hour and give it a critical listen...you should be OK as the Bose bass box has lightbulbs inside that should burn off excessive power. The one my son was given had lightbulbs inside to protect itself, figured that out when I took it apart.

Enjoy!

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post #436 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
I am not defending Bose here. I am defending something to make things straighten up. Because of all readings recently I found in many blogs and forums showing a very very deep emotional hate against bose that seem become a very personal thing to hate a non-living thing "sound system". Sometimes, I am thinking my uncle is right, Bose bashing and hating in the internet has now become a cult. Its very serious now, but on the other hand the product is keep on selling.
An earlier post point out that BOSE only rank #4 in the world in term of total sales and half of their revenue are from OE auto systems

So when you say BOSE products kept selling, I think you need to realize the fact is that BOSE DOES NOT OWN THE MARKET LIKE YOU THINK IT DOES

As far as BOSE bashing, BOSE has a lot of different products and not all of them are bad, HOWEVER, THEIR HOME THEATER AND HI-FI SYSTEMS ARE JUST TERRIBLE, why? Because it failed the most simple task of truthfully reproduce source material!
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post #437 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
yeah better let this thread die. The fact I don't even owned any bose product. But one sure I cannot understand why in the internet blogs and forums so many hardlined bose bashers (I think only bose product they hates this way, no one others). But it doesn't equate to the sales bose that it generates. If you say due to marketing, but that's a part of the game, right?.


One blogger said 50bucks of china made unknown brand speaker is better than 1000bucks of bose Acoustimass! what the f. is this?
We bash stuff that's terrible price/performance wise in each price bracket. All of Bose products are judged on a one product basis and if one specific Bose product isn't better in price/performance ratio in that price bracket than competition then its totally and utterly dog dirt. The other products are judged separately and the day when Bose actually produces a single product with the price/performance better than the competitors in that particular price bracket, I will perhaps buy it.
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post #438 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ormy View Post
When I said "functions as well as..." I meant in more broad terms, core functionality. An iphone 6 isn't any better at making phone calls than a new android phone, nor general web browsing, nor anything else that you would consider core functionality for a phone, yet it comes with a 25% (or more) price premium, why? Ok so they may have packed in a few more pixels and a few more MHz but so what?

I never said Apple (or Bose) were selling snake oil, I said they're selling aesthetics, some customers may be duped into thinking aesthetics=functionality but most (especially in the case of Apple) are more or less aware they're paying a bit extra for the iphone name and the sleek look and that's perfectly fine.

Apple is selling an image, its fashion more than technology (or at least the majority of their customers view it that way), at the end of the day its all marketing, for better or for worse. If you still don't believe me look at the profit margin on Apple's hardware vs. Samsung or LG, Apple's is much bigger because people will pay that bit extra for the Apple brandname.
Any argument about basic functionality is pointless. The speakers that are built into TVs are functional, at least as much as an $80 Android phone. People pay extra for Bose and Apple because they want something better than basic functionality.

So the question is not about basic functionality but what you're getting for your extra money.

You keep talking about how the extra money goes to form vs. function, style, sleek looks, aesthetics, etc.

This may be the case for Bose, but again, with an iPhone, you get a product that is provably better than any Android phone in many regards.

So yes, Apple is a marketing powerhouse in the same way that Bose is, but they give you a top-quality, superior product. I think most of us agree that Bose doesn't.

(And yes, to respond to a different post, I do have an iPhone. I got it for work so I'm not trying to justify any decision or purchase. I've also owned Android phones. The simple fact is that iPhones are provably better than Android phones in most regards. Just read any in-depth review. It's not an arbitrary, subjective statement, so my motive for posting about it is pretty irrelevant.)
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post #439 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
I find all this odd,

Pro is obviously young, I would suspect a teen by his writing style. When I was that age, I knew who Bose was but never heard their stuff. A few years later I did and didn't understand the draw. Weak bass response, lumpy midrange and the top octave was not there.

Decades go by and Bose is still producing the same thing but music has changed to become very bass heavy. Bose seeing sales declines would be an obvious result as their stuff can't dig down far enough for EDM, movie effects and rap tunes. Granted, Bose is not marketed to teenagers, bass heads or THX level theater frequency response or SPL requirements--it is to be expected.

Retuned my garage subs two days ago, had to test the entire system to make sure it will hold up to 116dB at the seated position. Ran the tune below for 90 minutes in the summer heat to make sure the amplifers would not shut down or my speakers fail. No shut downs, no speaker failures as the DIY brand never lets me down. The red limiter lights fired up at the end of the song so be careful out there!

So Pro... throw this on for an hour and give it a critical listen...you should be OK as the Bose bass box has lightbulbs inside that should burn off excessive power. The one my son was given had lightbulbs inside to protect itself, figured that out when I took it apart.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMonK0-PzY
Please just enjoy it by yourself.
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post #440 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by justthinking View Post
An earlier post point out that BOSE only rank #4 in the world in term of total sales and half of their revenue are from OE auto systems

So when you say BOSE products kept selling, I think you need to realize the fact is that BOSE DOES NOT OWN THE MARKET LIKE YOU THINK IT DOES

As far as BOSE bashing, BOSE has a lot of different products and not all of them are bad, HOWEVER, THEIR HOME THEATER AND HI-FI SYSTEMS ARE JUST TERRIBLE, why? Because it failed the most simple task of truthfully reproduce source material!
Very simple, just listen to sound it comes out from the system. If you like it and the price you can afford, then buy it. If you think you can have other brands which sound better, then go for it. That's all.


If you want audiophile grade sound system where you can only find on that brand and you pocket is deep, then go for it. Simple.
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post #441 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
...
EDIT: FYI, adding two lets say 90db lines gives 93db not 100db. So a -6db dip is 75% lower energy level. Speakers really have to be -3db at 13khz or above, because instruments actually go that high. Above that, well, people argue about where exactly the edge between the atmosphere and space is to this day.
Yes, sure, like I already said, I was talking about the suckout at 200Hz. I'm not trying to argue that having no top end is great somehow.

I'm curious how you're doing your math re: adding two 90dB lines together. Not trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to know how you're doing it.

Looking at that Bose FR plot again, the lines cross over at -6 or -7 dB. So if you have two -7 dB lines, what does that give you when you add them together? I mean, it has to be higher than -6 dB.

The "intellexual" article talks about how the frequencies around 200Hz are "completely erased" which is simply not true even if you don't add the lines together. At worst they're down -7 dB. So they're still significantly more than half as loud as the neighboring frequencies, since -10 dB is half as loud in terms of perceived volume. And the scale is logarithmic.

So instead of "completely erased" they are simply somewhat less loud. It's not good but it's not the complete disaster that the article makes it out to be.
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post #442 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
If you want audiophile grade sound system where you can only find on that brand and you pocket is deep, then go for it. Simple.
This is one hot item, ever compare one of these to a Bose system?

There is no audio company in the world more revered, feared, disputed, or discussed than Lirpa Labs. Its speakers and headphones are unmatched in their respective categories, not least for their blistering performance, but also as a well-known conflagrant.


http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...hs3DdFfykWm.97

Don't forget the handy free Ipod app

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...HdGJcPzPRip.97
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post #443 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro-People View Post
its accurate, you have to filter out categories
It is not accurate, here is your quote "The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.

The majority of people who can afford Bose DO NOT CHOOSE Bose! If you add all the other speaker manufacture sales up and compare to Bose, the "other" category is about 100x higher than Bose.
If you are trying to say that people who can afford Bose choose Bose over any other SINGLE manufacture, well, maybe and good for them. But that is NOT WHAT YOU SAID in your quote! Huge difference...
And there is no denying, the market share that bose holds has declined (from Undisputed #1 , 20 years ago, to 4th)...
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post #445 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 11:49 AM
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Clearly your son needs more Bose in his diet.

Because we all know that Bose is bose and only bose knows how to deliver bose sound that bose the mind of anyone who takes the time to bose.

Any who cares for high bose will appreciate that the sheer bose that Bose can provide will never settle for anything less than the bose that only Bose provides for bose-nirvana.

I for one welcome our new mighty OverBoses!!!

Bose regards,
BvB
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post #446 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
It is not accurate, here is your quote "The world is not perfect - while majority of those who can afford chooses bose than other brands, of course there other who go on the opposite way, that's the reality. No need to argue.

The majority of people who can afford Bose DO NOT CHOOSE Bose! If you add all the other speaker manufacture sales up and compare to Bose, the "other" category is about 100x higher than Bose.
If you are trying to say that people who can afford Bose choose Bose over any other SINGLE manufacture, well, maybe and good for them. But that is NOT WHAT YOU SAID in your quote! Huge difference...
And there is no denying, the market share that bose holds has declined (from Undisputed #1 , 20 years ago, to 4th)...
Oh so you said bose undisputed #1 20 years ago then goes to 4th. That's why what I am saying bose is still selling a lot, right
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You bose me right bose, baby
Right bose like a bose, baby
Right bose bose bose
You bose me right bose, baby
Right bose like a bose, baby
Right bose bose bose


Never gonna bose you up
Never gonna bose you down
Never gonna bose around and bose you
Never gonna bose you cry
Never gonna bose goodbye
Never gonna bose a bose and bose you

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post #448 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laika View Post
This is one hot item, ever compare one of these to a Bose system?

There is no audio company in the world more revered, feared, disputed, or discussed than Lirpa Labs. Its speakers and headphones are unmatched in their respective categories, not least for their blistering performance, but also as a well-known conflagrant.


http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...hs3DdFfykWm.97

Don't forget the handy free Ipod app

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...HdGJcPzPRip.97
Don't forget to match the Lirpa gear with the Rane Pseudoacoustic Infector!
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post #449 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Yes, sure, like I already said, I was talking about the suckout at 200Hz. I'm not trying to argue that having no top end is great somehow.

I'm curious how you're doing your math re: adding two 90dB lines together. Not trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to know how you're doing it.

Looking at that Bose FR plot again, the lines cross over at -6 or -7 dB. So if you have two -7 dB lines, what does that give you when you add them together? I mean, it has to be higher than -6 dB.

The "intellexual" article talks about how the frequencies around 200Hz are "completely erased" which is simply not true even if you don't add the lines together. At worst they're down -7 dB. So they're still significantly more than half as loud as the neighboring frequencies, since -10 dB is half as loud in terms of perceived volume. And the scale is logarithmic.

So instead of "completely erased" they are simply somewhat less loud. It's not good but it's not the complete disaster that the article makes it out to be.
If a speaker has 90db at 1 watt across the spectrum, except at 200hz where it has a -7db dip, then two of these will be 93db, except for at 200hz where it has a -7db dip, only now its 86db instead of 83db at 200hz. Its a logarithmic scale.
-7db dips in an overall +/-3db freqency response is not something anyone would aim for, except if they are ordered to do it by the economist brass. Everyone on this forum aims for flatter response in all DIY builds. For a huge manufacturer its unacceptable along the lines of arriving at your holiday-spot without your luggage.
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post #450 of 496 Old 08-06-2015, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
If a speaker has 90db at 1 watt across the spectrum, except at 200hz where it has a -7db dip, then two of these will be 93db, except for at 200hz where it has a -7db dip, only now its 86db instead of 83db at 200hz. Its a logarithmic scale.
-7db dips in an overall +/-3db freqency response is not something anyone would aim for, except if they are ordered to do it by the economist brass. Everyone on this forum aims for flatter response in all DIY builds. For a huge manufacturer its unacceptable along the lines of arriving at your holiday-spot without your luggage.
Ah, yes, of course. I forgot that doubling power = 3 dB.

Okay, so the Bose lines cross over at -7 dB. Add them together and you get -4 dB.

This really doesn't strike me as bad at all. You see this sort of relatively minor variation all the time in FR plots, even for expensive speakers that are considered good and neutral.

Again, I'm not defending Bose. I'm just saying that this article's interpretation of the FR plot is wrong and bad.
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