Would you buy a 10K Chinese Made Speaker labelled Made in USA ?? - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 278Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #331 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
COmusicaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Kelly View Post
I am a new poster to the AVS Forum. I began following this thread on 28 July.

I do completely agree with the comments about substantial content. We, like many other speaker companies and other manufacturers in general, have taken the Made in USA label too lightly. I apologize for this oversight. We want to be accurate. We will change our terminal plates to read "Designed, Engineered and Assembled in the USA."

President
Aerial Acoustics
To all of the many naysayers who claimed this would end badly I submit the above portion of Mr. Kelly's response. I don't think this ended badly. If you are for misinformation, you might think it did.

Too many folks totally missed the written point of the post-truth in labeling. Many were out there looking for the hidden agendas, and perhaps there were some, but the post was about labeling.
doublewing11 likes this.
COmusicaddict is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 15,247
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Liked: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgl View Post
I am not sure that Jim Salk could legitimately claim Made in USA and he make his own cabinets.
Is that claim made by means of promotion or through labeling?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is offline  
post #333 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
FerretHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ferret Free Zone
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
While we all...myself included...commend MK for posting, and indeed taking the high road; let's just not lose sight of the fact, that it didn't happen proactively.

My point being...if we're all better off (and I think we are); for the explanation, "apology", and coming change in labeling...it did take this thread, to bring it about. Some of you are still bashing Craig, the OP; especially in light of MKs magnanimous response. But do you think it would have happened, an other way?

No offense meant to Mr. Kelly; I'm sure he's a reasonable man. But I somehow doubt, if a single dealer had just asked; the same result would have been accomplished. Besides...people need to know, about what transpired previously; as well, as the correction and more transparency happening...moving forward.

In other words: don't kill the messenger.
Some good points here.

I also commend MK for coming on here to respond. I wise man once gave me a nugget of advice, ... he said to me "respond, don't react". We have multiple examples of IVG reacting like a spoiled child, and at the other end of the spectrum, a well thought out response. I would like to think MK responded to the community as a pose to a rebuttal to GVI. He manned up and will correct the matter going forward.

I have a hard time believing the 20-30 people who posted can really influence a company, but I think it speaks to MK and AA that he has listened and will make a correction. Again, he didn't have to and I'm sure he could have legally defended the label.

Having said all that, the label was incorrect in the first place. But we all make mistakes. If I were AA, I would close the matter with a goodwill gesture to offer some kind of "relief" to those who might have been so offended by this incorrect label.

With regards to VIG bringing this up, as I mentioned, he did well to let people know. But if the messenger is a screaming banshee, ... it's hard to listen, and I think GVI might be left with a Pyrrhic victory. And he hasn't indicated when he knew and what he knew. He's not even sure if Lexicon selling an Oppo for $3500 mark up is ok or not. There's a certain smugness to his responses and website (not to mention grammatical errors galore), ... . Let's just say he probably did more damage to his reputation by posting here than AA. If anything, AA has my respect for even replying (and in a classy way).

And we don't know if IVG approached AA with the concern or not, ... do we? Maybe MK would have done something. We weren't privy to that conversation, if it even happened in the first place.

Ridding the world of ferrets, one stinking critter at a time.

My Ferret-Free Setup
FerretHunter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #334 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:47 AM
Senior Member
 
FerretHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ferret Free Zone
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by COmusicaddict View Post
To all of the many naysayers who claimed this would end badly I submit the above portion of Mr. Kelly's response. I don't think this ended badly. If you are for misinformation, you might think it did.

Too many folks totally missed the written point of the post-truth in labeling. Many were out there looking for the hidden agendas, and perhaps there were some, but the post was about labeling.
I was one of the naysayers.

I am pleasantly surprised by this turn of events. AA showed a lot of class in their response, and the OP I guess affected change. But I wonder how many customers might be running to him for future sales. Did it end well for him? Certainly we now know he is not authorized to sell the remaining stock of his 10K speakers.

And we have a statement from AA indicating the label was incorrect and will now be changed. Doesn't that open things up for recourse for upset customers?

Did it end well? My statement was more regarding the parties involved.

With regards to misinformation, I guess it did end well for correction of the label. Now we can go after labeling of cryogenic treated cables.
lovinthehd likes this.

Ridding the world of ferrets, one stinking critter at a time.

My Ferret-Free Setup
FerretHunter is offline  
post #335 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
VGI
Advanced Member
 
VGI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bradley Beach NJ & Boca Raton Florida
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promit View Post
Eh. This all just feels like VGI is trying to go on the offensive against a manufacturer who he's no longer on good terms with. He has avoided answering any of the serious questions.
Promit

Actually I'm on the beach relaxing sipping a cocktail and enjoying life..

It was only recently when a customer brought this plate to my attention did this whole thing come into light.. I really never looked at the labelling of speakers thinking there was something sketchy going on. I'm running a business everyday and getting down and reading a plate on the ground isn't something I do a lot and I really never thought a guy like Michael would do this.

I must have struck a sensitive nerve to get this thread to take off like this..

I am very happy that mk responded but let's consider this.. I know Michael very well for many years and trust me he is the most anal person you'll ever meet.. He doesn't miss a beat from the way he Designs builds and boxes his products to the finest details.. So for him to say this is an oversight completely blows my mind.. He knows this was completely illegal and against federal law.. I see some people trying to make heads or tails of the FTC web site and it's super simple - all or virtually all of the product must be made here to label it that way. I spoke to the FTC Friday and clarified this and it couldn't be more clear. He told me that the Made in USA verbiage on any product sold in the USA is taken very seriously and they will prosecute anyone defrauding the public.

So is this fraud or an oversight ?You decide.. The bottom line is now people know where his stuff is made and that to me was important..

I personally think it's fraud and of course the apology helps soften the blow to some but what about the guy who walks into an audio store and looks at an AA speaker and sees the label and thinks oh it must be made there. He isn't going to question the integrity of an old speaker company known for high quality speakers.. That's what this is about..

I have lots more to share as this is just the beginning for me. The back door sales direct to customers circumventing his Dealer base along with the shady labelling practices are just the beginning..

Enjoy the weekend

Craig
Gmash likes this.
VGI is offline  
post #336 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 01:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 5,785
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Promit

Actually I'm on the beach relaxing sipping a cocktail and enjoying life..

It was only recently when a customer brought this plate to my attention did this whole thing come into light.. I really never looked at the labelling of speakers thinking there was something sketchy going on. I'm running a business everyday and getting down and reading a plate on the ground isn't something I do a lot and I really never thought a guy like Michael would do this.

I must have struck a sensitive nerve to get this thread to take off like this..

I am very happy that mk responded but let's consider this.. I know Michael very well for many years and trust me he is the most anal person you'll ever meet.. He doesn't miss a beat from the way he Designs builds and boxes his products to the finest details.. So for him to say this is an oversight completely blows my mind.. He knows this was completely illegal and against federal law.. I see some people trying to make heads or tails of the FTC web site and it's super simple - all or virtually all of the product must be made here to label it that way. I spoke to the FTC Friday and clarified this and it couldn't be more clear. He told me that the Made in USA verbiage on any product sold in the USA is taken very seriously and they will prosecute anyone defrauding the public.

So is this fraud or an oversight ?You decide.. The bottom line is now people know where his stuff is made and that to me was important..

I personally think it's fraud and of course the apology helps soften the blow to some but what about the guy who walks into an audio store and looks at an AA speaker and sees the label and thinks oh it must be made there. He isn't going to question the integrity of an old speaker company known for high quality speakers.. That's what this is about..

I have lots more to share as this is just the beginning for me. The back door sales direct to customers circumventing his Dealer base along with the shady labelling practices are just the beginning..

Enjoy the weekend

Craig


Wow.............an actual audio Crusader leading the charge?
doublewing11 is offline  
post #337 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 01:56 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Wow, bull**** in high end audio sales, who woulda thunk?
lovinthehd is offline  
post #338 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 02:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
I agree with OP on some stuff and disagree on others. The aa owner probably just needs to make his one post and stay quiet.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #339 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 02:31 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Just curious, do all you US guys care with this kind of intensity about other products you consume?

While it is indeed a matter of self-compliance as with many laws, there is also not a lot of effort made by our government to have industry strictly adhere to this. Export enforcement doesn't have the kind of resources for verification of US made status, not nearly as much as in the reverse, on imports. Keep in mind that even import enforcement has generally been reduced over the last 30 years I've been a Customs broker, and export enforcement was far behind that. We have had huge growth in import activities particularly. It used to start with a physical inspection of all imports, and marking violations were regularly issued but that by the end of the 90s had already been greatly reduced, and then the shift to homeland security and a further change in priorities. Think of the amount of drugs that cross the border vs what they actually stop. We just import too damn much.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #340 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 02:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
In the past I have made many inquiries with companies like filson and orvis about their clothing. They have changed their practices since...

IMO most dont care about certain products. Arent all cell/mobile phones made in china?? but I hate to say in respect to clothes, I dont like paying top dollar prices cause of brand name for a 2 dollar shirt unless it really is made in usa(for the brands orvis/filson). And with stereo speakers, I would not spend 10k for a chinese made product, but for an american made product I would If I liked the sound. Guess its just patriotism. I drive a lexus made in japan, but am thinking of the new corvette as my next. So maybe value has something to do with it. My Focals are 100% made in France as far as I know and nothing leads me to think they get their parts from china. If they did, I would kinda be mad because I would feel duped.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #341 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 03:17 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3564
There is one thing in all of this that is constructive; the power of the internet and how it can change attitudes for the better. ...Free sharing for a better tomorrow today.
Bravo, because it worked, ...Michael is going to adjust his label on his speakers and Facebook page.

Me too I'm having a cold beverage outside in the shade with mountains view and ocean breeze.
All the girls in bikini are looking great and fully happy. ...The children they all play, with kites and balls.
Life is beautiful.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-01-2015 at 03:21 PM.
NorthSky is offline  
post #342 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 03:21 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Facebook page looks to have been adjusted, just checked it out.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #343 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 03:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mr.SoftDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,579
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Think of the amount of drugs that cross the border vs what they actually stop. We just import too damn much.
As long as the cocaine bag label states "made in Mexico" and not "made in the U.S" I'm okay. The U.S. version is too cut.

Rick
COmusicaddict likes this.
Mr.SoftDome is offline  
post #344 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 03:22 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
As long as the cocaine bag label states "made in Mexico" and not "made in the U.S" I'm okay. The U.S. version is too cut.

Rick
No, you want Peruvian.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #345 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 03:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sean Spamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,352
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 448 Post(s)
Liked: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
The problem with that mindset is that you're helping condemn your national industries to second-rate status on the global market, which means that the "middle class" can only exist by government fiat. (The global market supports high wages for high value added. Only government policies can support high wages for low value added.)

Just look at cars. While one can debate current models, there's no reasonable debate that Big Three cars from, say, 1980 until the Dubya economic crash of 2008-9 were inferior to Japanese and (non-Communist) European competition. (To me, the US auto industry is a black hole of suckitude from the end of Cord 810 production to the start of Tesla Model S production, but that is neither here nor there.) Yet in the US domestic market they still had large market share. Customers were actively purchasing inferior products, often out of a misguided "Buy American" mindset. This behavior, aggregated, removed incentive from the Big Three to design and make competitive automobiles.
I can't specifically disagree with any of this, however it would seem to me to be more complicated then consuming whichever product or service offers the lowest price regardless of origin.

As you know when imports > exports the economy is most likely headed towards a contraction. Obviously with inferior products the country won't be able to export anything (beyond natural resources) - however if, ceteris paribus, the products are equal in quality - it would make more sense to me to spend a little more on home-grown products in an attempt to promote growth: higher wages = more disposable income = more consumption = higher GDP growth. Higher growth = more demand for labor = higher wages and so on and so forth.

Although I suppose if you spend more on a product you'll be left with less disposable income - so I'm not sure what the balancing act would be to get it just right.

In any case with respect to the auto-industry, I believe it was a combination of factors that led to their demise - not JUST inferior products (as in longevity). The powers that be thought that they were giving Americans what they wanted with big, powerful cars. Unfortunately those drank gas like nothing else, and when gas prices skyrocketed everyone looked to more fuel efficient cars. Combined with the plummeting dollar, companies were left with stockpiles of inventory - and couldn't in the short-run adapt all their production lines and designs to keep up with the shift in demand.

Had they thought a little further ahead - they might have been more competitive not just abroad, but at home also.
Unions didn't do themselves any favors with their wage demands, however there's a large chasm between what workers expect to be paid in an auto union, and what workers get paid for anything in China. A little pragmatism (in this case forced pragmatism through near bankruptcy) would help workers maintain a fair wage - and ensure a healthy industry.

I'm all for trade - trade promotes growth, however as the system currently stands the middle-class is fast disappearing. You're worried that by buying local the middle-class can only exist through government intervention - but if we keep our current course there won't be a middle class left.

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things this time?
Sean Spamilton is offline  
post #346 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:04 PM
Senior Member
 
FerretHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ferret Free Zone
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
I must have struck a sensitive nerve to get this thread to take off like this..
I think you phrased the question to maximize reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
trust me
Ok, no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
He told me that the Made in USA verbiage on any product sold in the USA is taken very seriously and they will prosecute anyone defrauding the public.

So is this fraud or an oversight ?You decide.. The bottom line is now people know where his stuff is made and that to me was important..

Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
I have lots more to share as this is just the beginning for me. The back door sales direct to customers circumventing his Dealer base along with the shady labelling practices are just the beginning..
Looking forward to hearing all of this, and the exposing of other fraudulent claims by other product lines you carry.

Ridding the world of ferrets, one stinking critter at a time.

My Ferret-Free Setup
FerretHunter is offline  
post #347 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

I'm all for trade - trade promotes growth, however as the system currently stands the middle-class is fast disappearing. You're worried that by buying local the middle-class can only exist through government intervention - but if we keep our current course there won't be a middle class left.

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things this time?
Do any countries abroad have a middle class? The middle class is what makes the USA unique. Yes I am painting with a broad brush.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #348 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:12 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
Do any countries abroad have a middle class? The middle class is what makes the USA unique. Yes I am painting with a broad brush.
Are you serious? Have you been anywhere abroad?
DS-21 likes this.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #349 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:12 PM
wse
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,503
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2207 Post(s)
Liked: 817
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
So I have to deliver this unsettling news and its quite disturbing but people deserve to know what they are buying...........What does this mean ? A few things but some are more concerning than others.

......It was shown that Chinese wood products can be deadly.. Off gassing of horrid chemicals and toxins that can cause nasty diseases and sickness. The problem in China is that there are no controls or Osha or anything stopping them from using cheap glues and bonding chemicals and wood that may be saturated with formaldehyde and other lethal toxins.

When I met Michael Kelly many years ago and decided to Represent his speakers he was so proud to show me the Cabinet designs and the amazing bracing that went into them and more important he stressed how he was so unique because all his cabinets were made in Denmark in amazing wood shops with amazing quality and safety. The wood veneers were all hand selected and book matched and the Danish people would complete these cabinets with incredible accuracy and quality. It was always this way with Mike Kelly and Aerial until one day when he got the bug to goto Asia for his production.

I never understand people who have something great and why instead of bettering the product they have to make it cheaper to build and reduce quality but yet raise the price.. Greed is all I can think of but its disgraceful.


Let's talk legality - The FTC has some nice documentation about labelling items MADE IN USA.. Here is a paragraph -
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard. The Commission also issued an Enforcement Policy Statement on U.S. Origin Claims to provide guidance to marketers who want to make an unqualified Made in USA claim under the "all or virtually all" standard and those who want to make a qualified Made in USA claim.

As I read this it says clearly that All or Virtually all of the item must be made here in the USA to say this.. His Entire Cabinet which is 99% of the speaker is made in China, Painted in China and finished in China.. Now yes he then takes Drivers from other countries like Scan Speak for instance another foreign company and stuffs them in the cabinet in Wilmington and stamps a MADE in USA on the back.. Is this worth 10,000.00 Dollars ??

Maybe the back binding post plate is made here but 99% of his speakers are made from Chinese and Foreign Parts. Aerial Acoustics and Michael kelly are breaking a federal law and the only reason he isn't in jail or fined for this is no one has called the FTC yet..

Here is the link to the FTC made in USA page.. Read it and you decide..https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

The Audiophile of today is well read as the Internet offers amazing amounts of information on products we are interested in.. The Problem is when a manufacturer doesn't disclose where his items are made and blatenly lies about where they are made. This is why I am writing this.


I hope to open a lot of peoples minds about buying audio today and asking the right questions to the companies and dealers you work with. We all know that great British, American, French and a few other countries can build amazing audio but only when its in the hands of the actual manufacturer which is what makes all the difference. When you start to farm your products out to China they won't be great or even good for long.

Imagine buying a new BMW car and you open the hood and the engine says made by toyota, would you be okay with this ? Ask your speaker company who makes the drivers in your speaker and you will be very surprised. Only a select few speaker companies actually make the entire speaker and the drivers.

A few Exceptions -
There are quite a few speakers from some great companies that are made in china and made under strict guidance because they own the factory and run it with american managers or british managers for instance and for speakers that cost 999 a pair they almost have to be made there.. If you have people overseeing the process and control and you own the factory and the people work for the manufacturer you can control the whole process including the chemicals used and glues etc. There are some mid priced speakers that are great coming out of situations like this but they don't say Made in USA on them....

Aerials don't cost 999 or 2999 or 4999 they are 7K-30K speakers that are made in China and they are telling everyone they are MADE IN USA. Labelling the cabinet MADE IN USA for a 99% made in CHINA product is a crime and if someone calls the FTC its going to be the end of Aerial. Lies and deception always come out and I hope you all find this of use.

A picture of the back plate of the 7T is shown below. Notice the Made in USA on the bottom..

Feel free to post your Made in USA Aerial pictures for everyone to see.. Maybe someone will take action.


Craig Shumer
Theatermax LLC
20 Years of Audio Excellence
So did you call the FTC?

My B&W 800 Diamond speakers are made in the UK 100% My KEF LS50 are made in China in KEF manufacturing plant
wse is offline  
post #350 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:13 PM
wse
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,503
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2207 Post(s)
Liked: 817
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
There is one thing in all of this that is constructive; the power of the internet and how it can change attitudes for the better. ...Free sharing for a better tomorrow today. Bravo, because it worked, ...Michael is going to adjust his label on his speakers and Facebook page.

Me too I'm having a cold beverage outside in the shade with mountains view and ocean breeze. All the girls in bikini are looking great and fully happy. ...The children they all play, with kites and balls.

Life is beautiful.

COOL
wse is offline  
post #351 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
FerretHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ferret Free Zone
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
Do any countries abroad have a middle class? The middle class is what makes the USA unique. Yes I am painting with a broad brush.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the USA is not unique in this. Ask the British (circa 1945) if India has a middle class.



With Britain's exist (dividing the people and country on the way out as a parting gift), the middle class became the upper class. Slowly, the middle class has come back to prominence.

http://qz.com/468798/can-a-political...indias-future/

Ridding the world of ferrets, one stinking critter at a time.

My Ferret-Free Setup
FerretHunter is offline  
post #352 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Are you serious? Have you been anywhere abroad?
21 countries and counting, are you serious?

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/07/08/...-than-reality/

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #353 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:20 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
21 countries and counting, are you serious?

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/07/08/...-than-reality/
Did you see no middle class in those 21 countries? Is there some reason I should follow your link?
lovinthehd is offline  
post #354 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Did you see no middle class in those 21 countries? Is there some reason I should follow your link?

you might be enlightened by the pew organization as its very recent and respected info.

only Australia and Japan honestly of the countries I have been too.

canada too...

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #355 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:42 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4802
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
you might be enlightened by the pew organization as its very recent and respected info.

only Australia and Japan honestly of the countries I have been too.

canada too...
Why would I be enlightened by Pew?

I've been to quite a few countries, and middle classes existed in every one of them, even in the least of them (probably Vietnam in 1993). Some have larger middle classes than others. Are they disappearing as fast as the one in the US? Are they growing as rapidly as those in Brazil, China or India? You just asked without qualification if there was a middle class in other countries....
lovinthehd is offline  
post #356 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jogiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,625
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 549
I don't care if my consumer electronic (speakers, cameras, smartphone, computer etc) products are made on the dark side of the moon by purple aliens just as long as it has the specs I want at a good price. In 2015 you would have to be a real clueless person to not know what you are getting before you get it but I am amazed at how many clueless people there are on the internet.
jogiba is offline  
post #357 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 04:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,499
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4417 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
Do any countries abroad have a middle class? The middle class is what makes the USA unique. Yes I am painting with a broad brush.
I was trying to illustrate why many immigrants want to work/live in the USA. Its also a problem in other middle class countries like GB and Canada. But If you look at the link I provided, Its pretty easy to see what makes the USA different. We on average make more money than everyone else on average. Middle class money in Vietnam or most Asian countries arent the same as USA middleclass money. blah, getting offtrack....

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/07/08/...-than-reality/

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is offline  
post #358 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
VGI
Advanced Member
 
VGI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bradley Beach NJ & Boca Raton Florida
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
So I have to deliver this unsettling news and its quite disturbing but people deserve to know what they are buying...........What does this mean ? A few things but some are more concerning than others.

......It was shown that Chinese wood products can be deadly.. Off gassing of horrid chemicals and toxins that can cause nasty diseases and sickness. The problem in China is that there are no controls or Osha or anything stopping them from using cheap glues and bonding chemicals and wood that may be saturated with formaldehyde and other lethal toxins.

When I met Michael Kelly many years ago and decided to Represent his speakers he was so proud to show me the Cabinet designs and the amazing bracing that went into them and more important he stressed how he was so unique because all his cabinets were made in Denmark in amazing wood shops with amazing quality and safety. The wood veneers were all hand selected and book matched and the Danish people would complete these cabinets with incredible accuracy and quality. It was always this way with Mike Kelly and Aerial until one day when he got the bug to goto Asia for his production.

I never understand people who have something great and why instead of bettering the product they have to make it cheaper to build and reduce quality but yet raise the price.. Greed is all I can think of but its disgraceful.


Let's talk legality - The FTC has some nice documentation about labelling items MADE IN USA.. Here is a paragraph -
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard. The Commission also issued an Enforcement Policy Statement on U.S. Origin Claims to provide guidance to marketers who want to make an unqualified Made in USA claim under the "all or virtually all" standard and those who want to make a qualified Made in USA claim.

As I read this it says clearly that All or Virtually all of the item must be made here in the USA to say this.. His Entire Cabinet which is 99% of the speaker is made in China, Painted in China and finished in China.. Now yes he then takes Drivers from other countries like Scan Speak for instance another foreign company and stuffs them in the cabinet in Wilmington and stamps a MADE in USA on the back.. Is this worth 10,000.00 Dollars ??

Maybe the back binding post plate is made here but 99% of his speakers are made from Chinese and Foreign Parts. Aerial Acoustics and Michael kelly are breaking a federal law and the only reason he isn't in jail or fined for this is no one has called the FTC yet..

Here is the link to the FTC made in USA page.. Read it and you decide..https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

The Audiophile of today is well read as the Internet offers amazing amounts of information on products we are interested in.. The Problem is when a manufacturer doesn't disclose where his items are made and blatenly lies about where they are made. This is why I am writing this.


I hope to open a lot of peoples minds about buying audio today and asking the right questions to the companies and dealers you work with. We all know that great British, American, French and a few other countries can build amazing audio but only when its in the hands of the actual manufacturer which is what makes all the difference. When you start to farm your products out to China they won't be great or even good for long.

Imagine buying a new BMW car and you open the hood and the engine says made by toyota, would you be okay with this ? Ask your speaker company who makes the drivers in your speaker and you will be very surprised. Only a select few speaker companies actually make the entire speaker and the drivers.

A few Exceptions -
There are quite a few speakers from some great companies that are made in china and made under strict guidance because they own the factory and run it with american managers or british managers for instance and for speakers that cost 999 a pair they almost have to be made there.. If you have people overseeing the process and control and you own the factory and the people work for the manufacturer you can control the whole process including the chemicals used and glues etc. There are some mid priced speakers that are great coming out of situations like this but they don't say Made in USA on them....

Aerials don't cost 999 or 2999 or 4999 they are 7K-30K speakers that are made in China and they are telling everyone they are MADE IN USA. Labelling the cabinet MADE IN USA for a 99% made in CHINA product is a crime and if someone calls the FTC its going to be the end of Aerial. Lies and deception always come out and I hope you all find this of use.

A picture of the back plate of the 7T is shown below. Notice the Made in USA on the bottom..

Feel free to post your Made in USA Aerial pictures for everyone to see.. Maybe someone will take action.


Craig Shumer
Theatermax LLC
20 Years of Audio Excellence
So did you call the FTC?

My B&W 800 Diamond speakers are made in the UK 100% My KEF LS50 are made in China in KEF manufacturing plant
My Kef ls50s are made in China too and they sound great and they don't say made in USA.. My Kef blade2 is made in England and they sound great also and honestly I haven't looked what they say on them. I will have to look.

My cars are German and some of them are made in Germany and actually my new x6 is assembled in the carolinas and it's not mis-represented.. The Bmw people are not afraid to tell you where their stuff is made..

It's just about honesty and if someone wants to buy 10k Chinese made speakers hey more power to them. I saw some people post that the aerials aren't made in China because maybe it's only the cabinet and if you think that the cabinet isn't a huge part of the speaker then I give up. I think it's more than the cabinet FYI..

When people go to sell them as I have seen in the last few years the market has fallen apart on some brands and aa is one of them. You will see some posts from friends soon who tried to sell their aa speakers recently and couldn't get 30 percent of their list price less than a year later.. That isn't good for anybody..

Craig
VGI is offline  
post #359 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
FerretHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ferret Free Zone
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
It's just about honesty and if someone wants to buy 10k Chinese made speakers hey more power to them.
Similarly, more power to dealers who want to sell them knowing full well they are made in China.

Waiting to hear details surrounding when "things changed forever".
FerretHunter is offline  
post #360 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 05:36 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,622
Mentioned: 289 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14054 Post(s)
Liked: 11733
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Chu Gai, WSE is saying the B&W 800 series is made 100% in UK. In this day and age, I would be surprised if any speaker is 100% from one country. Want to research that? Also you asked and earlier question and I don't think it was answered. https://www.facebook.com/86706101669...type=1&theater
Mike Garrett is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off