Would you buy a 10K Chinese Made Speaker labelled Made in USA ?? - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Chu Gai, WSE is saying the B&W 800 series is made 100% in UK. In this day and age, I would be surprised if any speaker is 100% from one country. Want to research that? Also you asked and earlier question and I don't think it was answered. https://www.facebook.com/86706101669...type=1&theater
In the first case we're considering the UK. They say,

Quote:

36.-(l) For the purposes of this Act goods shall be deemed
to have been manufactured or produced in the country in which
they last underwent a treatment or process resulting in a sub-
stantial change.
(2) The Board of Trade may by order specify-
(a) in relation to any description of goods, what treatment
or process is to be regarded for the purposes of this
section as resulting or not resulting in a substantial
change ;
(b) in relation to any description of goods different parts of
which were manufactured or produced in different
countries, or of goods assembled in a country different
from that in which their parts were manufactured or
produced, in which of those countries the goods are
to be regarded for the purposes of this Act as
having been manufactured or produced
So, seems to me they're playing by the rules.

With Salk, the cabinet is made here in a finish according to the customer's wishes and with the crossover which is also made here plus any other sundry parts likely costs more than the drivers. Keep in mind, Salk doesn't pay list price for the drivers. I'd hazard to say he's playing by the rules. The bonus with Salk is you don't have to wait two years to get your speaker, it doesn't come with a screwed up veneer job, actually has the parts it's supposed to have, and you don't get jerked around by a wannabe speaker builder that's poorly capitalized.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #362 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 06:34 PM
 
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Most of the world shares the same harmonized tariff and origin rules, sometimes specific ones adopted for special duty treatment per trade agreements (like NAFTA etc)
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post #363 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
.. I know Michael very well for many years and trust me he is the most anal person you'll ever meet.. He doesn't miss a beat from the way he Designs builds and boxes his products to the finest details.. So for him to say this is an oversight completely blows my mind.. He knows this was completely illegal and against federal law..

I personally think it's fraud and of course the apology helps soften the blow to some but what about the guy who walks into an audio store and looks at an AA speaker and sees the label and thinks oh it must be made there. He isn't going to question the integrity of an old speaker company known for high quality speakers.. That's what this is about..

Craig
This is still a he said/he said situation. Someone who is "anal" about the way they build and design their products may or may not be so anal when it comes to complying with all of the government regulations out there.

Regarding the issue of truth in labeling - I would think that a discovery like this about this particular brand should then trigger an investigation of all the brands for which you are a dealer - otherwise how would you know if there are not more misrepresentations? Along those lines perhaps an investigation into the accuracy of published specs should be undertaken.

Certainly the mislabeling of the AA speakers should be corrected but if such a fuss is made about those, then an authentication of all the other brands is warranted. And not just for the expensive stuff, either. Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, right?
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post #364 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 07:36 PM
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Dear op, thank you for letting me know I can get Aerials cheaper directly from them. You just saved me a lot of money and time not having to visit your store! Well, I guess seeing you're not an authorized dealer I wouldn't buy them from you anyways. That is all I have taken away from your posts on this thread.
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post #365 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Promit

Actually I'm on the beach relaxing sipping a cocktail and enjoying life..

It was only recently when a customer brought this plate to my attention did this whole thing come into light.. I really never looked at the labelling of speakers thinking there was something sketchy going on. I'm running a business everyday and getting down and reading a plate on the ground isn't something I do a lot and I really never thought a guy like Michael would do this.

I must have struck a sensitive nerve to get this thread to take off like this..

I am very happy that mk responded but let's consider this.. I know Michael very well for many years and trust me he is the most anal person you'll ever meet.. He doesn't miss a beat from the way he Designs builds and boxes his products to the finest details.. So for him to say this is an oversight completely blows my mind.. He knows this was completely illegal and against federal law.. I see some people trying to make heads or tails of the FTC web site and it's super simple - all or virtually all of the product must be made here to label it that way. I spoke to the FTC Friday and clarified this and it couldn't be more clear. He told me that the Made in USA verbiage on any product sold in the USA is taken very seriously and they will prosecute anyone defrauding the public.

So is this fraud or an oversight ?You decide.. The bottom line is now people know where his stuff is made and that to me was important..

I personally think it's fraud and of course the apology helps soften the blow to some but what about the guy who walks into an audio store and looks at an AA speaker and sees the label and thinks oh it must be made there. He isn't going to question the integrity of an old speaker company known for high quality speakers.. That's what this is about..

I have lots more to share as this is just the beginning for me. The back door sales direct to customers circumventing his Dealer base along with the shady labelling practices are just the beginning..

Enjoy the weekend

Craig
Sounds to me like you only cared about the mislabeling once it was China, not Denmark. MK/Aerial have admitted to being in the wrong on this point, which at least vindicates the material aspects of your claims.

How you've handled this, however, is subjectively shifty and dishonest. I would not be inclined to do business with someone who behaves as you have, certainly not for the amounts of money discussed in this thread.
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post #366 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Promit View Post
Sounds to me like you only cared about the mislabeling once it was China, not Denmark. MK/Aerial have admitted to being in the wrong on this point, which at least vindicates the material aspects of your claims.

How you've handled this, however, is subjectively shifty and dishonest. I would not be inclined to do business with someone who behaves as you have, certainly not for the amounts of money discussed in this thread.
Exactly. My trolling wasn't very mature though I have to admit.
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post #367 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post
Promit

Actually I'm on the beach relaxing sipping a cocktail and enjoying life..

It was only recently when a customer brought this plate to my attention did this whole thing come into light.. I really never looked at the labelling of speakers thinking there was something sketchy going on. I'm running a business everyday and getting down and reading a plate on the ground isn't something I do a lot and I really never thought a guy like Michael would do this.

I must have struck a sensitive nerve to get this thread to take off like this..

I am very happy that mk responded but let's consider this.. I know Michael very well for many years and trust me he is the most anal person you'll ever meet.. He doesn't miss a beat from the way he Designs builds and boxes his products to the finest details.. So for him to say this is an oversight completely blows my mind.. He knows this was completely illegal and against federal law.. I see some people trying to make heads or tails of the FTC web site and it's super simple - all or virtually all of the product must be made here to label it that way. I spoke to the FTC Friday and clarified this and it couldn't be more clear. He told me that the Made in USA verbiage on any product sold in the USA is taken very seriously and they will prosecute anyone defrauding the public.

So is this fraud or an oversight ?You decide.. The bottom line is now people know where his stuff is made and that to me was important..

I personally think it's fraud and of course the apology helps soften the blow to some but what about the guy who walks into an audio store and looks at an AA speaker and sees the label and thinks oh it must be made there. He isn't going to question the integrity of an old speaker company known for high quality speakers.. That's what this is about..

I have lots more to share as this is just the beginning for me. The back door sales direct to customers circumventing his Dealer base along with the shady labelling practices are just the beginning..

Enjoy the weekend

Craig
You still have not specifically answered the question on why MK dumped you. You make an open threat to sling more mud. This whole rant by you has always been about revenge and trying to drag a good man through the mud. If you want to look at character just read MK's response and yours.
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post #368 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:43 PM
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I would not spend 10K for a speaker made in China! I am not sure I really want anything made in China if there are good alternatives for product made elsewhere!
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post #369 of 406 Old 08-01-2015, 11:57 PM
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I am not against buying things that are made in China, however, I want the company be honest about the product. For example, most of the computers I own were all made in China or Japan, (even the ones that cost more than my TV) and I knew that when bought it so I am okay with that (same for my iPod and my phone) When things say made in USA and not U.S.A. then they are not necessarily made in the United States. I remember there was a set of tires that were labeled "made in USA" and they were actually made in China, just USA China. You can look up those tires on google if you don't believe me.

Remember that tires sold in the US have to be DOT approved, so the government didn't have a problem with the company doing this.


Here is the general rule that I follow:

Made in U.S.A>Assembled in U.S.A.>Made in China
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post #370 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 04:20 AM
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I've never seen xenophobia and borderline racism so openly and proudly displayed as in this thread. Saying you wouldn't ever pay 10k for a speaker made in China is much like saying you would never hire a person born in China. You're ignoring the individual's merits in favor of your prejudged notion of the group. If AA's products were now of lower quality, that would be a valid criticism regardless of where it's made, but that was not OP's complaint, and nor would the country of origin be relevant in that case.

If the issue is mislabeling that's one thing, but as others have pointed out, the OP did not complain about mislabeling when the cabinets were made in Denmark.
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post #371 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post
I've never seen xenophobia and borderline racism so openly and proudly displayed as in this thread. Saying you wouldn't ever pay 10k for a speaker made in China is much like saying you would never hire a person born in China. You're ignoring the individual's merits in favor of your prejudged notion of the group. If AA's products were now of lower quality, that would be a valid criticism regardless of where it's made, but that was not OP's complaint, and nor would the country of origin be relevant in that case.

If the issue is mislabeling that's one thing, but as others have pointed out, the OP did not complain about mislabeling when the cabinets were made in Denmark.
Nice dodge. Even though I realize racism is an excuse for nearly everything on the left, it has nothing to do with this. It is an opinion that the product is probably overpriced for its level of performance since the most expensive part of the speaker is made in a country with production costs that are a fraction of those in Denmark and the U.S. If the move to China were accompanied by significantly reduced selling price none of this would be an issue.

If you believe Mr. Kelly's comment that the move to China wasn't motivated by lower costs, then I would say you are naive.
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post #372 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 04:46 AM
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To answer the op's question, yes. I drive a 14 Ford Explorer and have no idea of what percentage of the parts and assembly are domestic. I have no idea what percentage of any product has to be domestic to carry the "made in the USA" label. We live in a global market place. Full disclosure, I bought my 7T's lightly used. I was very intrigued after reading some glowing reviews that compared them to speakers costing twice as much and more. I never heard them until I set them up in my room and dialed them in. The strongest recommendation I can give them is that after 40 years of swapping out speakers is that I feel like I've found "my" speakers. I encourage anyone who has strong feelings on the op's question to listen to them and decide for yourself.

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post #373 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 04:51 AM
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Nice dodge. Even though I realize racism is an excuse for nearly everything on the left, it has nothing to do with this. It is an opinion that the product is probably overpriced for its level of performance since the most expensive part of the speaker is made in a country with production costs that are a fraction of those in Denmark and the U.S. If the move to China were accompanied by significantly reduced selling price none of this would be an issue.

If you believe Mr. Kelly's comment that the move to China wasn't motivated by lower costs, then I would say you are naive.
Exactly! Glad some people see this for what it is.
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post #374 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post
I've never seen xenophobia and borderline racism so openly and proudly displayed as in this thread. Saying you wouldn't ever pay 10k for a speaker made in China is much like saying you would never hire a person born in China. You're ignoring the individual's merits in favor of your prejudged notion of the group. If AA's products were now of lower quality, that would be a valid criticism regardless of where it's made, but that was not OP's complaint, and nor would the country of origin be relevant in that case.
Son, you're probably not old enough to have persosonally experienced legitimate racism or to have had parents and grandparents that could knowingly tell you about it. This tendency to label every little thing racist cheapens the term and diminishes the horrors and struggles of those who actually have been victims. And it's not the same as saying you'd never hire a person from China. You're making an extrapolation that was never made in this thread and then looking to rail against it.
Countries like France, Germany, Italy, Japan, and others look to promote their very names because it speaks to their uniqueness and particular reputations for quality.
It takes years to earn a reputation and nowhere near as long to ruin it. Junk from Japan flooded the world market after WWII and they they had a well deserved reputation for shoddy products. Through concerted efforts, that was turned around. China's got a rep too and they're still in the process of turning it around. Kelly is fortunate to have sourced a competent supplier. Modern equipment, automated lines, some vertical integration, etc. The workforce in China is not stable. As people develop skills, they look to other jobs that will pay them for those skills. So companies have trouble retaining people and the skills they've developed unless they pay them.

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If the issue is mislabeling that's one thing, but as others have pointed out, the OP did not complain about mislabeling when the cabinets were made in Denmark.
The issue is improper labeling. If you're willing to cut some slack that Kelly misunderstood what Made in USA meant, then cut the same slack for the OP. These two aren't the only ones in this thread who didn't have a better handle on what the term meant.

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post #375 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 06:08 AM
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Nice dodge. Even though I realize racism is an excuse for nearly everything on the left, it has nothing to do with this. It is an opinion that the product is probably overpriced for its level of performance since the most expensive part of the speaker is made in a country with production costs that are a fraction of those in Denmark and the U.S. If the move to China were accompanied by significantly reduced selling price none of this would be an issue.

If you believe Mr. Kelly's comment that the move to China wasn't motivated by lower costs, then I would say you are naive.
If you read MK's letter he stated it was just not for cost. That infers that it wasn't the only reason. Also if you look at the building process the factory uses machines made in Germany and Italy. Plus the veneers are sourced from Germany. So basically these cabinets could not be built w/o products and machinery from other parts of the world. Nothing is 100% not even in China.
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post #376 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 06:40 AM
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I can't specifically disagree with any of this, however it would seem to me to be more complicated then consuming whichever product or service offers the lowest price regardless of origin.
To clarify, I never said anything about price. I was discussing excellence, not cost. If one buys lesser stuff because of its country of origin, that behavior reduces the level of excellence in that country's goods. So the choice is not Buy American or Buy Chinese or Buy Peruvian or whatever. It is either Buy Excellence or Encourage Uncompetitiveness.

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The issue is improper labeling. If you're willing to cut some slack that Kelly misunderstood what Made in USA meant, then cut the same slack for the OP. These two aren't the only ones in this thread who didn't have a better handle on what the term meant.
Interesting how people see the same thing so differently, even when they have no particular stake in the outcome.

To me, the labeling issue was a sidebar, and at any rate completely addressed by Mr. Kelly's statement. (I know how much good counsel costs, and I the reasonable assumption is Kelly did not vet the label and wrongly but reasonably assumed that what he did in the US constituted "making.") The more interesting issue is the OP's lack of ethics, xenophobia, and yes, racism.

Here are the salient facts as I see them:

1) Cabinets made in Denmark, OP didn't say anything about the label or even notice it.

2) Cabinets made in China for years, OP didn't say anything about the label.

3) Company drops OP, OP goes to an A/V forum, dog-whistle firmly between her/his lips, and starts a smear campaign with a title that has nothing to do with what you say is the issue at hand, but a lot about the perversions in the OP's weltanschauung.
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post #377 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Class A View Post
If you read MK's letter he stated it was just not for cost. That infers that it wasn't the only reason. Also if you look at the building process the factory uses machines made in Germany and Italy. Plus the veneers are sourced from Germany. So basically these cabinets could not be built w/o products and machinery from other parts of the world. Nothing is 100% not even in China.
Yawn.
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post #378 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 07:31 AM
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To clarify, I never said anything about price. I was discussing excellence, not cost. If one buys lesser stuff because of its country of origin, that behavior reduces the level of excellence in that country's goods. So the choice is not Buy American or Buy Chinese or Buy Peruvian or whatever. It is either Buy Excellence or Encourage Uncompetitiveness.



Interesting how people see the same thing so differently, even when they have no particular stake in the outcome.

To me, the labeling issue was a sidebar, and at any rate completely addressed by Mr. Kelly's statement. (I know how much good counsel costs, and I the reasonable assumption is Kelly did not vet the label and wrongly but reasonably assumed that what he did in the US constituted "making.") The more interesting issue is the OP's lack of ethics, xenophobia, and yes, racism.

Here are the salient facts as I see them:

1) Cabinets made in Denmark, OP didn't say anything about the label or even notice it.

2) Cabinets made in China for years, OP didn't say anything about the label.

3) Company drops OP, OP goes to an A/V forum, dog-whistle firmly between her/his lips, and starts a smear campaign with a title that has nothing to do with what you say is the issue at hand, but a lot about the perversions in the OP's weltanschauung.
I don't discount the OP has a hard-on. But I'll tell ya, even if he hadn't brought up the whole Lumber Liquidator thing, if the Aerial logo had long since been removed, if his former business relationship was never disclosed, there was no good way to bring up the Made in USA thing for a dealer. Now me, I hate everyone.

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post #379 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:00 AM
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there was no good way to bring up the Made in USA thing for a dealer
I'm not so sure, though I would say posting on the internet and in a forum setting would require a very calculated and careful thought process for a dealer (something severely lacking in this case). It might have helped to say "I'm a dealer for so and so, I have found this out, I have done such and such to try to correct the situation, ... I need your help to really push this forward".

But this particular OP has selective memory, shifting ethics, ... there was no good way for him to now complain about something he didn't have a problem with for years. To claim you never looked at the back of 10K speaker until someone complained about it? C'mon! When I purchased my Signatures, ... I went over every inch of those beauties.

If he were smart, he would have taken his dealer hat off and posted as an end user. Emotions got the better of him and he went ape-s**t on the internet. I can only imagine how he might deal with a customer when a sticky situation arises.
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post #380 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:04 AM
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And I could equally say, Kelly didn't know about Made in USA? C'mon!
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If OP was a dealer with over 1/4 of AA's sales last year, something big would seem to have happened to just separate from that relationship. Thats a big percentage if true. makes me wondey why?

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post #382 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post
I've never seen xenophobia and borderline racism so openly and proudly displayed as in this thread. Saying you wouldn't ever pay 10k for a speaker made in China is much like saying you would never hire a person born in China. You're ignoring the individual's merits in favor of your prejudged notion of the group. If AA's products were now of lower quality, that would be a valid criticism regardless of where it's made, but that was not OP's complaint, and nor would the country of origin be relevant in that case.

If the issue is mislabeling that's one thing, but as others have pointed out, the OP did not complain about mislabeling when the cabinets were made in Denmark.
Why is racism even brought into this discussion? All the people that have said that they would rather see a product made in the US or maybe Europe has nothing to do with racism.

The large problem I see is that the US, Japan, and most of the countries in the EU have very strict pollution standards and worker's rights and safety guidelines. China basically disregards the environment and workers rights. Where is your outrage over that?

Typical for someone from the Left; when you don't understand the whole picture you immediately cry racism.

Because of China's nonexistent environmental policies and worker's rights laws, the other industrial nations are definitely at a competitive disadvantage.

In saying this, I admit I use all Apple products, but Tim Cook and company went to their manufacturers in China and told them to clean it up. They also pressured their manufacturers to cut back on hours worked, improve their housing, and give them a better wage. But how many companies put this kind of pressure on their Chinese manufacturers?
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post #383 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:27 AM
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Why is racism even brought into this discussion? All the people that have said that they would rather see a product made in the US or maybe Europe has nothing to do with racism.

The large problem I see is that the US, Japan, and most of the countries in the EU have very strict pollution standards and worker's rights and safety guidelines. China basically disregards the environment and workers rights. Where is your outrage over that?

Typical for someone from the Left; when you don't understand the whole picture you immediately cry racism.

Because of China's nonexistent environmental policies and worker's rights laws, the other industrial nations are definitely at a competitive disadvantage.

In saying this, I admit I use all Apple products, but Tim Cook and company went to their manufacturers in China and told them to clean it up. They also pressured their manufacturers to cut back on hours worked, improve their housing, and give them a better wage. But how many companies put this kind of pressure on their Chinese manufacturers?
Ahh man this reply was SPOT on until you added the criticism bolded above
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post #384 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:27 AM
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It is an opinion that the product is probably overpriced for its level of performance since the most expensive part of the speaker is made in a country with production costs that are a fraction of those in Denmark and the U.S. If the move to China were accompanied by significantly reduced selling price none of this would be an issue.
Here too, you have prejudged the product to be inferior once the cabinet's country of production has changed to China, while even OP himself, who claims to have sold tons of them, has not mentioned anything about the quality dropping.

The title of this thread asks if you would buy a 10k speaker from China, with no mention of its quality. The main concern is obviously that it's from China.
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post #385 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:32 AM
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Well...this will probably be my last post on the subject; as I'm tired of trying to explain things to those, who obviously think in 2 dimensions.

I've seen so many comments like..."well, MK was wrong to mislabel; but the OP should have had a different title to his post"; or "MK made a nice post...so the OP obviously has an axe to grind, and all is forgiven".

Man: talk about not seeing the forest through the trees! Craig has eluded, there's more he could say...but hasn't; that's not taking the high road as well? Everyone keeps harping on this "everything changed" thing; maybe Craig can't elaborate, without slinging more mud...and has chosen not to?

One of the things, Craig has said...is that it's a customer's complaint, that brought it to his attention. And I believe (though I'm not 100% sure, and don't have the wherewithal to browse back through ALL the posts) he asserted the following:

- Customer called Craig, to ask about origin of the cabinets. Obviously the customer had an impetus; you don't just shoot the breeze, about such things. My guess is the customer heard/read something, and wanted to check into it.

- Craig told customer "as far as I know, the cabinets are made in Denmark..." (if Craig didn't know about the switch to China. So everyone can stop with this whole "oh...he was fine when they were made in Denmark; but not China. What a xenophobe"). Or maybe he just deflected, and said "you should call AA/MK and ask them/him"

- That AA/MK misrepresented to the customer, the fact that the cabinets were made in China; and now by his own admission...falsely labeled. In other words...lied to an inquiring customer (mind you...I'm repeating what I've read, as purported by others. I have no first-hand knowledge)

- Customer comes back to Craig and says "WTF; I want my money back!"

- Craig calls AA/MK, and says "hey...what are we going to do about this? I don't want my reputation tarnished...and I'm not sure I want to keep selling this stock. Will you make reprimands to this customer...and will you buy-back, remaining stock?"

- AA/MK tells Craig to shove it! LOL

TO BE CLEAR: all I'm doing, is suggesting a possible scenario; NOT AN ACTUAL ONE. Though I will say...some of what I've purported, has been stated as to have actually happened; and I don't think I've taken great liberties, with the rest. In other words...it's very likely, connecting some bread crumbs; this is kinda, how things went down.

So then...maybe Craig says "I'll see your a$$ in court. I don't want to work with a guy/company like yours"; and AA/MK reply in kind, by saying "you're dropped". My point is...everyone (most) is assuming Craig is the bad guy here; and why...because AA/MK committed "fraud", but then...when pressured to respond on this forum...politely apologized??

In my book...I'd award more points, for changing the policy before this post! On Facebook, on AVS; "hi...I'm Michael Kelly, owner of AA. It has come to my attention..." and blah, blah, blah. He knew; customer(s) and Craig, at the very least...expressed anger and concern. He could have said/done something then.

No offense; I don't know the man, and yes...I'm friendly with Craig. But that aside...we're pardoning a company, who commits this "fraud" (and no matter who's "side" you've been on here; it seems EVERYONE agrees, what we're talking about...is "fraud"). And by all accounts, knew about it...and continued to perpetrate it; until he's forced to comment. And when he does, he goes "sorry...we'll change it". And everyone just goes "wow; what a stand-up guy"? LOL

And what...we continue, to bury Craig because he was a whistle-blower, with an axe to grind? Everyone is saying "oh...Craig was a dealer who got cut-off; and now he's seeking his pound of flesh". What if he was cut-off...because he was the whistle-blower (or threatened to; or asked AA/MK to do the "right" thing, long before now)?

I don't know; I'm not trying to bury AA/MK here. Truly I'm not. What I am doing, is trying to understand...how the purported "victim", is catching the lion's share of the sh*t here.

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post #386 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by FerretHunter View Post
If he were smart, he would have taken his dealer hat off and posted as an end user.
Wait: he should have posted about "fraud"...by being "fraudulent" himself (posing as someone else)? Hmm...I'm afriad you just lost consideration with me.

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post #387 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:48 AM
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Ahh man this reply was SPOT on until you added the criticism bolded above
I notice you're from Canada and I didn't mean to offend you.
But that has been the case of politics in the USA the last few years. The liberals immediately cry racism on every subject they don't agree with or in the majority of cases, don't understand.
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post #388 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 08:50 AM
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And what...we continue, to bury Craig because he was a whistle-blower, with an axe to grind? Everyone is saying "oh...Craig was a dealer who got cut-off; and now he's seeking his pound of flesh". What if he was cut-off...because he was the whistle-blower (or threatened to; or asked AA/MK to do the "right" thing, long before now)?

I don't know; I'm not trying to bury AA/MK here. Truly I'm not. What I am doing, is trying to understand...how the purported "victim", is catching the lion's share of the sh*t here.
You may be right about everything. The only facts I recall is that AA sources stuff in China and labels products made in USA. I also know it will be changed to assembled/designed in USA along with an oversight. The OP provided some fact that he was a longtime dealer and sold the products and made good sales. He also knew about stuff by AA was made outside USA for a while.

So the question to me is why the separation between OP and AA?

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post #389 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 09:19 AM
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You may be right about everything. The only facts I recall is that AA sources stuff in China and labels products made in USA. I also know it will be changed to assembled/designed in USA along with an oversight. The OP provided some fact that he was a longtime dealer and sold the products and made good sales. He also knew about stuff by AA was made outside USA for a while.

So the question to me is why the separation between OP and AA?
Many people commenting on this thread are saying "why didn't the OP cry foul when he knew the speaker cabinets were manufactured in Denmark, but then raised his voice when he found out they were now being made in China".

This goes back to the post I made earlier. We know what the manufacturing conditions are like in Denmark because of their environmental laws and worker's rights laws. China is always a question mark in that regard.

So maybe the OP raised the question based on his personal ethics. I know I would.

We have worked really hard in this country to clean up our air and water, and to do this we had to implement laws and regulations; as did Japan and Europe. These laws and regs come at a high cost to manufacturers.
China has no such laws and regulations. No minimum wage...US manufacturers, and manufacturers in the other countries I named, pay way more than minimum wage to employees. China's human rights stance is still appalling. They also don't practice free and fair trade (tariffs). They don't adjust their currency to proper levels.
In other words, it makes for a not very level playing field.
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post #390 of 406 Old 08-02-2015, 09:25 AM
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And I could equally say, Kelly didn't know about Made in USA? C'mon!
You could, and I would have no problem with it because you would be right.

I don't think I've ever said AA is right, or that the label is correct. I've only said I'd be surprised if it couldn't be legally defended. Deception is not uncommon in high end gear, this stretching of the truth is no surprise.

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