B&W 804 Diamonds, Triad LCR Golds or Seaton Cat 8Cs? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 08-29-2015, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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B&W 804 Diamonds, Triad LCR Golds or Seaton Cat 8Cs?

Ok, I am going a little crazy trying to figure out my new speaker configuration and was hoping for some guidance. I have narrowed things down to 3 options based on size issues, the need for front ported or sealed speakers since the front left and right will be tucked along the wall and right new to a stand.

I will be using a Yamaha RX-A3050 as the front end with an Oppo 103D Blu ray. The following packages are with in about $1000 of each other with everything considered based on discounts etc for me. That includes the Receiver, Blu ray, Salamander stand, speakers, sub, amy amps etc.

B&W 804 Diamonds with HTM4 Center. I would help power the B&Ws with the Classe Sigma Amp5 to biamp the B&Ws. I worry about shear output from the 804s and the HTM4, especially the center even with the amp (200wx5 at 8 ohms). I would use the B&W M1 speakers as sides, rears and 2 atmos channels. Likely use a Power Sound Audio S3000i as the only sub.

Triad InRoom Gold LCRs and Center with stands powered by an Emotiva XPA-3 at 330w/ch into 4ohms with InRoom Bronze Satellites as sides, rears and 2 atmos. PSA S300i as sub.

Seaton Cat 8C with stands (man they are $$). No extra amp needed. Unsure what to use as a surround as I need them to be small and wall mountable to pivot and tilt. Looked at some small Klipsch book shelfs or maybe KEF Q100s which are more $. I would complete the system with a Submersive HP+.

Thanks,
Mike
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-30-2015, 04:59 AM
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Hi Mike,

The InRoom Gold Omni SE is a much better match to the Gold LCRs. See my Triad speaker matching chart in this message:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post26931713


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post #3 of 15 Old 08-30-2015, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopShoe View Post
Ok, I am going a little crazy trying to figure out my new speaker configuration and was hoping for some guidance. I have narrowed things down to 3 options based on size issues, the need for front ported or sealed speakers since the front left and right will be tucked along the wall and right new to a stand.

I will be using a Yamaha RX-A3050 as the front end with an Oppo 103D Blu ray. The following packages are with in about $1000 of each other with everything considered based on discounts etc for me. That includes the Receiver, Blu ray, Salamander stand, speakers, sub, amy amps etc.

B&W 804 Diamonds with HTM4 Center. I would help power the B&Ws with the Classe Sigma Amp5 to biamp the B&Ws. I worry about shear output from the 804s and the HTM4, especially the center even with the amp (200wx5 at 8 ohms). I would use the B&W M1 speakers as sides, rears and 2 atmos channels. Likely use a Power Sound Audio S3000i as the only sub.

Triad InRoom Gold LCRs and Center with stands powered by an Emotiva XPA-3 at 330w/ch into 4ohms with InRoom Bronze Satellites as sides, rears and 2 atmos. PSA S300i as sub.

Seaton Cat 8C with stands (man they are $$). No extra amp needed. Unsure what to use as a surround as I need them to be small and wall mountable to pivot and tilt. Looked at some small Klipsch book shelfs or maybe KEF Q100s which are more $. I would complete the system with a Submersive HP+.

Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,

my suggestion will be to dodge the Oppo right now, unless you need a blu ray player with those features, as newer UHD blu ray players should be coming in next few weeks and so on, or in worst case scenario, in a period stretched to December. Use a cheap blu ray player in the meanwhile, better still if you have an existing one, leave it as it is. Use the money on speakers if needed.
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post #4 of 15 Old 08-30-2015, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
Hi Mike,

The InRoom Gold Omni SE is a much better match to the Gold LCRs. See my Triad speaker matching chart in this message:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post26931713

Thanks Dawn! Great reference.


Dawn
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Originally Posted by garagetinkerer View Post
Hi Mike,

my suggestion will be to dodge the Oppo right now, unless you need a blu ray player with those features, as newer UHD blu ray players should be coming in next few weeks and so on, or in worst case scenario, in a period stretched to December. Use a cheap blu ray player in the meanwhile, better still if you have an existing one, leave it as it is. Use the money on speakers if needed.
Didn't realize new UHD Blu rays would be released so soon. I do have a blu ray I can use till Xmas time so that will save me a few $, but it won't really affect my speaker choice/budget.

Mike
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-30-2015, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagetinkerer View Post
Hi Mike,

my suggestion will be to dodge the Oppo right now, unless you need a blu ray player with those features, as newer UHD blu ray players should be coming in next few weeks and so on, or in worst case scenario, in a period stretched to December. Use a cheap blu ray player in the meanwhile, better still if you have an existing one, leave it as it is. Use the money on speakers if needed.
no.....months away from 4K blu ray players

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-30-2015, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopShoe View Post
Didn't realize new UHD Blu rays would be released so soon. I do have a blu ray I can use till Xmas time so that will save me a few $, but it won't really affect my speaker choice/budget.

Mike
they wont be

you can buy a clearance blu ray player at Best Buy for less than $60

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-31-2015, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopShoe View Post
Seaton Cat 8C with stands (man they are $$). No extra amp needed. Unsure what to use as a surround as I need them to be small and wall mountable to pivot and tilt. Looked at some small Klipsch book shelfs or maybe KEF Q100s which are more $. I would complete the system with a Submersive HP+.
The Seatons would be my pick, hands down. For dynamics, clarity and headroom, DSP controlled active speakers are almost unbeatable. The direct connection of dedicated amplifiers to high grade drivers means they're so much more than the sum of the parts of a passive speaker and amp.

The choice for surrounds is the new Seaton Spark XC2. I believe these recently passed the prototyping stage. Physically, they appear to have everything you're after ("small and wall mountable to pivot and tilt"). Details that I can find are here: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...3912?&trail=40, and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post34395378.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
I just posted the long answer in the Spark thread on our forum. The short answer is that we will have a Spark XC2 & Spark XC1. The XC2 will be the fully bi-amplified version selling for $750 each + amplification. This requires 4 separate conductors (wires) for connection which is commonly available as in-wall 4 conductor wire. The XC1 is a quasi-passive speaker which can operate over an existing single pair of wires. They are described as "quasi-passive" since they require DSP in the single channel amplifier powering them. The single channel Spark XC1 will sell for $795 each + amplification.

We have our own amplifiers which are optimized for the speakers where we can insure a low noise floor and consistent operation. The SSA-2x2 configured to power 2 Spark XC2's will be $1995 delivering 500W per speaker (200W-HF/300W-LF). Pro-audio options for those not concerned about fan noise and possibly higher noise floor will offer the potential of significant savings on the amplification with some examples we're testing delivering 4 channels of 400W for about $1000.



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post #8 of 15 Old 09-03-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagetinkerer View Post
Hi Mike,

my suggestion will be to dodge the Oppo right now, unless you need a blu ray player with those features, as newer UHD blu ray players should be coming in next few weeks and so on, or in worst case scenario, in a period stretched to December. Use a cheap blu ray player in the meanwhile, better still if you have an existing one, leave it as it is. Use the money on speakers if needed.
Hopefully we will be able to buy a 4K BD player before the end of the year, but it is looking less likely, unless Sony does it. Buying a cheaper player is not a bad idea, but unless you want to pay early adopter fee, I would plan mid 2016 or later for the 4K BD purchase. By then Oppo might have an option.
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post #9 of 15 Old 09-03-2015, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Hopefully we will be able to buy a 4K BD player before the end of the year, but it is looking less likely, unless Sony does it. Buying a cheaper player is not a bad idea, but unless you want to pay early adopter fee, I would plan mid 2016 or later for the 4K BD purchase. By then Oppo might have an option.
Well, there are UHD products to be displayed at the IFA, and to be launched by the end of the year, preferably before christmas. Well, this is what i have read so far in public. Unless, something has changed again, and again we go on a merry-go-round, with them changing DRM specifications etc. This was the reason why there was a delay with the launch of the UHD blu ray last year, which has been postponed to 2015 from mid-late 2014. We know that Panasonic displayed a demo sometime ago, Samsung has displayed a model now. I think a fair few will launch before Christmas, but that's just a hunch as that is a crucial period for sales.
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-03-2015, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
The Seatons would be my pick, hands down. For dynamics, clarity and headroom, DSP controlled active speakers are almost unbeatable. The direct connection of dedicated amplifiers to high grade drivers means they're so much more than the sum of the parts of a passive speaker and amp.

The choice for surrounds is the new Seaton Spark XC2. I believe these recently passed the prototyping stage. Physically, they appear to have everything you're after ("small and wall mountable to pivot and tilt"). Details that I can find are here: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...3912?&trail=40, and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post34395378.






How can you say Seaton's are head and shoulders better? You never mentioned whatsoever having a chance to hear all three Speakers........these kind of recommendations are useless!


I've audition both B & W 802's, 804's, CT 8.2's and CT 8.4's......... IMHO, Triad Gold LCR's were better sonically than all B&W 800 series or CT series I spent time with..........again, my opinion.

I've never heard Seaton Catylists so I can't comment......but I have heard JTR Noesis 212's and preferred Triad Gold LCR's which are priced similar.........and from what I've read, 212's are similar to the bigger Seaton Cat version. To be perfectly honest, I'd wouldn't mind hearing Cats myself.........oh well.

I strongly suggest OP auditions all three speakers for his own piece of mind.
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post #11 of 15 Old 09-04-2015, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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DW,

Thanks for your thoughts on the Triads vs the B&Ws. I have been able to hear the B&W 8023, 803s and 804s and then heard a theater with the CT 8.2s but unfortunately I am unable to find any place to listen to the Triad Golds nor the Seatons. I was fortunate enough to hear Frolichs system when it had JTR 212s and 2 S2s and it was very impressive.

Due to my placement constraints, none of the JTRs will fit, nor will the 802s or 803s.

I was just hoping for opinions from others who have had a chance to listen to some or all of them to at least get their take on the speakers. I know it is always best to hear the speakers myself as I have different ears and tastes than anyone else, but sometimes that isn't possible.

GIEGAR,

Thanks for the info on the new Sparks. I talked with Mark and the size is still not small enough for me and to do 6, they are a bit more than I want to spend on sides and rears.

I am heavily leaning towards the cat8s due to the active nature. Amps and DSP designed for each driver just sounds smart. That, and the coaxial tweet/midrange lets you position the center horizontal or vertical.

Thanks guys!
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You really can't go wrong with any of these products!

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post #13 of 15 Old 09-14-2015, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
How can you say Seaton's are head and shoulders better?
Because I understand the performance advantages that are inherent in an active loudspeaker. The advantages I listed are measurable characteristics and not confined to Seaton Catalysts. Don't take my word for it though; see the links following.

Quote:
You never mentioned whatsoever having a chance to hear all three Speakers........
That's because I haven't. But that doesn't exclude me from stating what my pick would be based on the type of speaker. Furthermore, I didn't offer a subjective judgement on how they sounded. I stated some of the actual advantages the particular type of speaker (that the Catalysts are) bring to the table vs the traditional passive speakers + external amp approach. As I saw it, OP Poopshoe was mainly concerned with overall speaker/amp configuration, comparative output, size, total price and matching surrounds. This is what I attempted to address. At that point, he didn't enquire about subjective comparisons of how the the speakers sounded.

Quote:
these kind of recommendations are useless!
Get over yourself doublewing. Your notion that someone must have heard all speakers under consideration to be entitled to offer any sort of feedback is just arrogance and petty tribalism. You would've said SFA if I'd picked "your" speakers.

Quote:
I've audition both B & W 802's, 804's, CT 8.2's and CT 8.4's......... IMHO, Triad Gold LCR's were better sonically than all B&W 800 series or CT series I spent time with..........again, my opinion.

I've never heard Seaton Catylists so I can't comment......but I have heard JTR Noesis 212's and preferred Triad Gold LCR's which are priced similar.........and from what I've read, 212's are similar to the bigger Seaton Cat version. To be perfectly honest, I'd wouldn't mind hearing Cats myself.........oh well.

I strongly suggest OP auditions all three speakers for his own piece of mind.
Yes, perhaps you should (hear them for yourself) before berating others just because what they have to offer doesn't align with your subjective opinion.
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post #14 of 15 Old 09-14-2015, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PoopShoe View Post
GIEGAR,

Thanks for the info on the new Sparks. I talked with Mark and the size is still not small enough for me and to do 6, they are a bit more than I want to spend on sides and rears.
I guess something like the Reaction Audio RX-8's (pre-drilled with mounting hardware) is too large?

Have you looked at the JBL 8320 Compact Cinema Surrounds? They’re a fairly powerful 8” THX certified surround that appear to have flexible mounting options. Reasonably priced at $500/pair too. (The "big brother" is the 10" JBL 8340a High Power Cinema Surround, but they're probably way too large.)

Quote:
I am heavily leaning towards the cat8s due to the active nature. Amps and DSP designed for each driver just sounds smart. That, and the coaxial tweet/midrange lets you position the center horizontal or vertical.
Great! I found some more info/impressions on the Catalyst 8C's here: Seaton Sound Central | T.H.E. Show Newport Beach 2014, and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-...l#post24786922.

If you need any more convincing about active speakers, here’s a few more articles to read on active speakers:

Hope that helps. Good luck with your decision!
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post #15 of 15 Old 09-16-2015, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
I guess something like the Reaction Audio RX-8's (pre-drilled with mounting hardware) is too large?

Have you looked at the JBL 8320 Compact Cinema Surrounds? They’re a fairly powerful 8” THX certified surround that appear to have flexible mounting options. Reasonably priced at $500/pair too. (The "big brother" is the 10" JBL 8340a High Power Cinema Surround, but they're probably way too large.)


Great! I found some more info/impressions on the Catalyst 8C's here: Seaton Sound Central | T.H.E. Show Newport Beach 2014, and here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-...l#post24786922.

If you need any more convincing about active speakers, here’s a few more articles to read on active speakers:

Hope that helps. Good luck with your decision!
Thanks G! The reactions are too big, yes. I spoke with Mark S about possible sides and surrounds if I didn't go with his new Sparks and he suggested Tannoy due to their concentric driver configuration. I looked into the Tannoy Di6DC for sides and surrounds and the Di5DC for my height/atmos speakers. They are fairly reasonable, small, fairly efficient and have optional ball mounts. And, they come in white which will make it easier to paint to match the walls.

Thanks again!
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