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post #121 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 08:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
Yeah but even Tan Mom is in awe of his toasty glow!
lol I guess he heard me.

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post #122 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 08:39 AM
 
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Most overrated speakers IMO are ID speakers. The worst too.
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post #123 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
What was the point of that post? You wanted to debate my post but couldn't think of anything meaningful?
This thread would be more interesting to the average viewer if you weren't so argumentative. Just sayin'.
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post #124 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
Yeah but even Tan Mom is in awe of his toasty glow!
lol I guess he heard me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-sp...from-congress/
Haha very apt timing
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post #125 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
I'm going to say something a bit controversial. I've never been a fan of the B&W 800 series.
25 years ago I went to listen to some speakers blind--the speakers were behind a curtain and calibrated to the same output levels. Listened to over a dozen speakers so made notes on each one and found the results interesting. The B&W speakers I didn't like...the B&O speakers I really didn't like and the Bose 901s sat at the bottom of the heap. Maybe a unknown fear of the letter B?

All speakers are overrated--that is called marketing. If you look at it as value for the price paid, just look at the design for your answer.

I'll offer a ratio--once the conventionally designed cabinet type speakers cost 10 times what the cost is for the drivers/crossover parts...then it is overrated. This does not apply to the really difficult and complex cabinet construction like horns, transmission line or synergy horn construction. I'm talking a sealed box or a ported box--it's a box! You can curve it, make it out of stone, wrap it in carbon fiber or cover it in exotic wood...it is still just a box.

I guess the magic does die once you figure out how something works.

The MOST overrated speakers are white van speakers! What do I win?
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post #126 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 11:55 AM
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"Hello Mr. Expensive Speaker Storeowner. I would like to listen a variety of speakers, all calibrated to same output levels, behind the curtain. Can you do that for me? It would only take couple of hours and you might sell me up to 20 000$ worth of product."
"Why of course not dear beloved customer. My store time consists mostly in writing cable riser reviews, watching nude female pictures on interwebs and if necessary, giving customers uneducated suggestions about what to buy based on estimated size of their wallet. Speaking of, let me show you these really pretty and extremely good highest end speakers that cost only 21 999$. Since you are our millionth customer you got a discount. They usually cost 100 000$."

Thats how I envision my speaker auditions.
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post #127 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 02:00 PM
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why not just call the thread: "Speakers that suck"?. Where is this "over-rated" coming from? Forums? Magazines?

Blazar!
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post #128 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
Most overrated speakers IMO are ID speakers. The worst too.
I going to guess you just haven't had the opportunity to hear some of the best ones. One example of a great one (though not a budget speaker) is the XTZ Divine 100.49, they are magnificent in a good room and the mid-range is particularly good, they did an excellent job implementing arguably the best mid-woof driver made. One cool (to me) feature is the ability to bypass the passive crossover and go full active, it is a tweekers dream (or nightmare).
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post #129 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
why not just call the thread: "Speakers that suck"?. Where is this "over-rated" coming from? Forums? Magazines?
It's true that reviewers from magazines and certain forums have the tendency to write good reviews of pretty much all the speakers they review. They say things like "underrated" or "better than others that cost 2 or 3 times more". Then, there are speaker companies that have great reputation and we all want to hear them when given chances. Finally, when we get a chance to hear these "highly reviewed" or "reputable" speakers, we get disappointed and sometimes blame it on the set up or the room. Then, if we get another opportunity and we get the same crappy result, then perhaps we may say they are overrated especially if other members agree with our opinions. IMHO
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post #130 of 171 Old 09-25-2015, 04:42 PM
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Where is the helpful counter thread for this one. What makes a good quality speaker and who make the best bang for the buck speaker.

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post #131 of 171 Old 09-26-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dk3y View Post
Obviously, set ups and room acoustics could make a drastic difference but personally I was pretty disappointed with Wilson and Harbeth speakers.
Interesting comment there, since I have owned several Harbeths (and Spendors too). I have listened to Wilsons, and have always thought they were crap, definitely overrated, overpriced etc etc. BUT...... I hear what you say about the Harbeths, which is one of those speaker brands that some uber-golden-eared-super-audiophile setup just perfectly in their room, with extremely expensive cables, exotic interconnects, cable risers, esoteric amps and of course, a turn-table..... and ends up sounding like crap, because the golden-eared-audiophiles are sometimes delusional fools.

But in my rooms, my Harbeths sound great. I have an all Harbeth Super HL5 multichannel audio setup in my office, and it sounds great.
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post #132 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Class A View Post
5 Guys Burgers & Fries everyone knows that!!!
I will have to try. There is one about 3 miles from my work.
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post #133 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 08:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Where is the helpful counter thread for this one. What makes a good quality speaker and who make the best bang for the buck speaker.
The OP already said ID brands are best bang, which I disagree.
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post #134 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
I going to guess you just haven't had the opportunity to hear some of the best ones. One example of a great one (though not a budget speaker) is the XTZ Divine 100.49, they are magnificent in a good room and the mid-range is particularly good, they did an excellent job implementing arguably the best mid-woof driver made. One cool (to me) feature is the ability to bypass the passive crossover and go full active, it is a tweekers dream (or nightmare).
Yeah, on the pricy side.

2 other speakers that allow active bi-amp of the bass are the RBH SX-6300 & SX-8300 towers. Great deals/sales could be found. Remove the metal jumpers and the 3 woofers are completely separated from the tweeter/midrange. Thus, you can actively bi-amp.

The XTZ flagship allows active amp of all 3 (tweeter, midrange, & bass). But I wouldn't mess with the midrange & tweeter. I think the best adjustments are done only with the bass.
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post #135 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 09:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
Most overrated speakers IMO are ID speakers. The worst too.
I think you could be more PC and say "ID speakers can be overrated too". If you don't like ID, then, of course, you think they are overrated. Same with B&M brands.
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post #136 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 09:06 AM
 
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Can we make predictions?

I predict the new B&W 802 D3 are overrated because they increased the already high price of $15K to $22K. That's a $7K hike.
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post #137 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
The XTZ flagship allows active amp of all 3 (tweeter, midrange, & bass). But I wouldn't mess with the midrange & tweeter. I think the best adjustments are done only with the bass.
While there is no question any speaker can benefit from DSP below the rooms Schroeder frequency the midrange and treble are far less likely to be significantly improved if it has a well designed passive crossover. The options just interest me since every speaker I have built in the last five years has been active. It does allow a tweeker to adjust, for example, some idiodsyncratic voicing preference they have or one could look at the passive crossover and copy the transfer function if they like and always have the baseline and safety net. It probably appeals to less than a tenth of a percent of people.
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post #138 of 171 Old 09-27-2015, 07:41 PM
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I will have to try. There is one about 3 miles from my work.
Fresh shelled peanuts while you wait for your order.
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post #139 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
If money were of no consideration, I think I would prefer the B&W CM over the 800's. The same clarity in the mids/highs, but more controlled bass.
The 800 line is the only good speakers B&W makes (other than the snails and old matrix), especially the 803, 802 and 800.
The rest of their speakers aren't worth the asking price (boomy, cloudly and potentially even shrill.)
The new 802D3's might not even be worth the new asking price either
It's hard enough for the 99% to even stomach the asking price of 10 year old used 802D1's, let alone new 800D3's!
(and if you blow the tweeters you'll be out at least $2000 to repair them!)

B&W has made one thing very clear in 2015 Q3. That the 800's are not aimed at us middle-class "commoners" .
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post #140 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 12:27 AM
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DIY shows time and again what you can achieve for the ACTUAL value of the components (with minimal if-any markup.)

The only advantage OEM speakers have is World-Class tooling like CNC machines for all custom wood and metal parts with 3D CAD files for repeatability with micron-precision;
and access to advanced things like anechoic chambers, trained listeners and $2000 measurement mics and $50,000 laser measurement systems operated by people with PhD's.
Access to semiconductors and EE engineers/programmers; magnetizers, premium woods, veneers, glues, gloss and polishes.
Support staff/Call centers. High-volume shipping rates. etc etc etc, the list goes on...

Things that DIY will almost NEVER have access to.
They DO have the upper hand, but that comes at a HIGH COST (to the consumers!!!)
You WILL pay up the nose for every single one of those advantages, whether they are trickled down to the user or NOT.
Have fun paying for the CEO's golf session(s) and Lambo(s) too. Like a BOSS! (Like not a boss! hehe )
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post #141 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 12:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
I think you could be more PC and say "ID speakers can be overrated too". If you don't like ID, then, of course, you think they are overrated. Same with B&M brands.
No need for PC. ID being overrated is an understatement of the century. ID is being driven by human greed, pure and simple. So long as someone is made to think that he/she is getting something more for less, it's all over. Like flies on poop.

But as always, the joke is on the greedy consumers. As if some garage dweller with a $15 Dayton mic from eBay and a cheap Dell laptop can engineer and build better products than any one of the true established (for many years) companies like B&W, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Klipsch, etc.

Cheap Chinese parts, cabinets, and the most laughable idea that SPL should be flat cannot replace millions of dollars and decades of R&D that companies sold at even Best Buy have put in.
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post #142 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
DIY shows time and again what you can achieve for the ACTUAL value of the components (with minimal if-any markup.)

The only advantage OEM speakers have is World-Class tooling like CNC machines for all custom wood and metal parts with 3D CAD files for repeatability with micron-precision;
and access to advanced things like anechoic chambers, trained listeners and $2000 measurement mics and $50,000 laser measurement systems operated by people with PhD's.
Access to semiconductors and EE engineers/programmers; magnetizers, premium woods, veneers, glues, gloss and polishes.
Support staff/Call centers. High-volume shipping rates. etc etc etc, the list goes on...

Things that DIY will almost NEVER have access to.
They DO have the upper hand, but that comes at a HIGH COST (to the consumers!!!)
You WILL pay up the nose for every single one of those advantages, whether they are trickled down to the user or NOT.
Have fun paying for the CEO's golf session(s) and Lambo(s) too. Like a BOSS! (Like not a boss! hehe )
Not many companies do that to my knowledge. Harman is one of them.
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post #143 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
No need for PC. ID being overrated is an understatement of the century. ID is being driven by human greed, pure and simple. So long as someone is made to think that he/she is getting something more for less, it's all over. Like flies on poop.

But as always, the joke is on the greedy consumers. As if some garage dweller with a $15 Dayton mic from eBay and a cheap Dell laptop can engineer and build better products than any one of the true established (for many years) companies like B&W, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Klipsch, etc.

Cheap Chinese parts, cabinets, and the most laughable idea that SPL should be flat cannot replace millions of dollars and decades of R&D that companies sold at even Best Buy have put in.

You need to get out more.
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post #144 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 12:18 PM
 
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B&W has made one thing very clear in 2015 Q3. That the 800's are not aimed at us middle-class "commoners" .
That won't stop some people from auditioning, laughing, and criticizing like they do now.



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post #145 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 12:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Things that DIY will almost NEVER have access to.
They DO have the upper hand, but that comes at a HIGH COST (to the consumers!!!)
You WILL pay up the nose for every single one of those advantages, whether they are trickled down to the user or NOT.
Not all B&M speakers are more expensive than ID.

In addition, many people can get 30-40% off MSRP on many B&M speakers (Revel, KEF, RBH, etc., which ends up being less expensive than some ID.

Sure there are examples where people pay less for ID. But it's not every case. And if you don't like something, less cost won't mean anything. There is no point of buying something cheaper if you are not happy, which goes for both ID & B&M.

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post #146 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
No need for PC. ID being overrated is an understatement of the century. ID is being driven by human greed, pure and simple. So long as someone is made to think that he/she is getting something more for less, it's all over. Like flies on poop.

But as always, the joke is on the greedy consumers. As if some garage dweller with a $15 Dayton mic from eBay and a cheap Dell laptop can engineer and build better products than any one of the true established (for many years) companies like B&W, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Klipsch, etc.

Cheap Chinese parts, cabinets, and the most laughable idea that SPL should be flat cannot replace millions of dollars and decades of R&D that companies sold at even Best Buy have put in.
You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. Some ID companies off great value and great quality, just like some B$M operations.
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post #147 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 01:17 PM
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You need to get out more.
+1
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post #148 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Can we make predictions?

I predict the new B&W 802 D3 are overrated because they increased the already high price of $15K to $22K. That's a $7K hike.
Over priced would be the better term!
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post #149 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 01:22 PM
 
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Over priced would be the better term!
Yeah, agreed, overpriced would be a better term.

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post #150 of 171 Old 09-28-2015, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
No need for PC. ID being overrated is an understatement of the century. ID is being driven by human greed, pure and simple. So long as someone is made to think that he/she is getting something more for less, it's all over. Like flies on poop.

But as always, the joke is on the greedy consumers. As if some garage dweller with a $15 Dayton mic from eBay and a cheap Dell laptop can engineer and build better products than any one of the true established (for many years) companies like B&W, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Klipsch, etc.

Cheap Chinese parts, cabinets, and the most laughable idea that SPL should be flat cannot replace millions of dollars and decades of R&D that companies sold at even Best Buy have put in.
So what you are saying is just because a guy does not have the R&D of say Harman that a speaker is not good? Correct me if I am reading it wrong!

Certainly you are entitled to you're opinions, but if you think for one minute that ID company speakers are so bad, maybe you should get out and hear for yourself. RMAF is this weekend and there will be plenty of ID companies on hand and I am sure you will be quite surprised at what you hear!

I actually heard a pair of DIY speakers in the last year, put together by a garage dweller @Sibuna (I am not sure they are his design or not) and I thought they were one of the best sounding speakers I have heard in some time! $150 to make or something like that? They were not SPL winners, but I bet if you were to hear them next to a pair of B&W's blind, you might reassess your opinion. I also know that some little things have come from garage dwellers like Apple computers, Disney and Amazon to name a few. I might even throw Harley Davidson in that mix!

I know for me, I let my ears do the talking. ID, name brand, garage dweller what have it, if I like the sound, I want it!

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