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post #61 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RickyDeg View Post
You won't need to. You have amazing speakers with fantastic potential as it is. Why risk adding more "problems/challenges" to deal with? I think the immersive audio trend in domestic homes is overrated. As much as I can appreciate immersive audio in a movie theater it's not often ideal or even possible in most "normal" living rooms. For those with dedicated rooms perhaps, but not even then I'm not so sure it's the most ideal situation.

And those "add-on" speakers... OMG! Don't even get me started! Putting a speaker ontop of another...! The world has gone bonkers! lol



It is. I just feel there is less talk about achieving absolute fidelity these days and more talk about adding additional speakers, and sometimes quite a lot of them. More speakers doesn't equal better fidelity. Every installation and situation is of course different but more speakers isn't always the answer. But the industry has to sell us something new. I'm not buying it. I'd rather spend money and time 'perfecting' the 'standard' system I already have.
I'm curious, how many immersive audio systems have you heard in domestic spaces? I haven't heard a single one, lol, but the overwhelming positive feedback has me upgrading .

The same kind of lamenting happened when we went from stereo to quadrophonic and 5.1. Immersive audio can certainly be ignored and life goes on, but there is no evidence I've seen to suggest that it isn't a fairly significant audio upgrade from a standard 5.1 system.

Fidelity is another issue altogether, but once you're at the level of 5.1 audio the ability to critically listen drastically falls compared to stereo or mono listening and the delta between speakers is reduced. Rooms still matter, but that applies almost regardless of how many speakers, so it is what it is.

Very few care about absolute fidelity anymore, even on these forums. And that's a bit of a bummer, I agree. But it's not going to stop me from upgrading to Atmos, that's for sure . I want fidelity AND immersive sound, no need to choose one or the other as far as I'm concerned .
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post #62 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I'm curious, how many immersive audio systems have you heard in domestic spaces? I haven't heard a single one, lol, but the overwhelming positive feedback has me upgrading .

The same kind of lamenting happened when we went from stereo to quadrophonic and 5.1. Immersive audio can certainly be ignored and life goes on, but there is no evidence I've seen to suggest that it isn't a fairly significant audio upgrade from a standard 5.1 system.

Fidelity is another issue altogether, but once you're at the level of 5.1 audio the ability to critically listen drastically falls compared to stereo or mono listening and the delta between speakers is reduced. Rooms still matter, but that applies almost regardless of how many speakers, so it is what it is.

Very few care about absolute fidelity anymore, even on these forums. And that's a bit of a bummer, I agree. But it's not going to stop me from upgrading to Atmos, that's for sure . I want fidelity AND immersive sound, no need to choose one or the other as far as I'm concerned .
What's key is Atmos can deliver the fidelity needed to take advantage of a properly configured system with a single listener sitting in the sweet spot. You get all the benefits of sublime
stereo imaging, but in full-on 3 dimensions. The catch is you have to be as assiduous as you would with a 2-channel system, and do it for 9 channels, 11 channels, or more. But if you do, it can deliver.
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post #63 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I'm curious, how many immersive audio systems have you heard in domestic spaces? I haven't heard a single one, lol, but the overwhelming positive feedback has me upgrading .

The same kind of lamenting happened when we went from stereo to quadrophonic and 5.1. Immersive audio can certainly be ignored and life goes on, but there is no evidence I've seen to suggest that it isn't a fairly significant audio upgrade from a standard 5.1 system.

Fidelity is another issue altogether, but once you're at the level of 5.1 audio the ability to critically listen drastically falls compared to stereo or mono listening and the delta between speakers is reduced. Rooms still matter, but that applies almost regardless of how many speakers, so it is what it is.

Very few care about absolute fidelity anymore, even on these forums. And that's a bit of a bummer, I agree. But it's not going to stop me from upgrading to Atmos, that's for sure . I want fidelity AND immersive sound, no need to choose one or the other as far as I'm concerned .
Good question.

I've experienced two such immersive audio systems in domestic homes and another in a demo room. One of them was pretty good, but overall they did not wow me the way people have been describing. Set-up's were fair but implementing 11 speakers (or more) and doing it well is no easy task for a domestic dweller with merely a living room at your disposal. Then again, I'm used to a specific type of sound from my own home theater which has become my preference. Still have work to do but I cannot imagine additional speakers being part of that. Except from perhaps additional subwoofers.

My point simply was that (depending on how demanding you are) adding more speakers into the mix will add more complication and additional challenges. It always does, just like you mentioned going from stereo to quadrophonic and 5.1. Sure, if you have the option/funds/time/energy/determination to go all out on maximum fidelity per installed speaker for immersive audio then go for it!

I'll choose a "standard" option myself, and do it well.


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post #64 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The catch is you have to be as assiduous as you would with a 2-channel system, and do it for 9 channels, 11 channels, or more. But if you do, it can deliver.
Yes.
And that's a pretty big catch for most of us. But for those who manage - congrats!
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post #65 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 09:46 AM
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I just wanted to back Mark and Sandy (not that they need it). I would suggest to come out to CEDIA (if possible) to hear how good and versatile Golden Ear speakers truly are or find a local GE dealer (if there's one close by).

I have a full Golden Ear 7.2.4 set up in my room (expect the subs). Triton 1's for L/R, XXL Center, 4 SuperSat 50s for side and back surrounds, and 4 SuperSat 3's on the ceiling. I have also installed a few rooms with Invisa 7000's as front R/L/C and they do an amazing job for the front stage. I am willing to bet the house that an all in-wall/ceiling system from Golden Ear sounds fantastic.

I honestly don't think the price to performance can be beat. But hey, I'm just a fan of great sound.
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post #66 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 09:55 AM
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I really want to get a demo of these in an Atmos room. I wish i didn't have such a low drop ceiling in my theater. I'd worry about the hot spotting if they are only about 4ish feet above my head. But GoldenEar is a fantastic company. Had them in a 7 channel setup at one point.

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post #67 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Naylorman32 View Post
I really want to get a demo of these in an Atmos room. I wish i didn't have such a low drop ceiling in my theater. I'd worry about the hot spotting if they are only about 4ish feet above my head. But GoldenEar is a fantastic company. Had them in a 7 channel setup at one point.
Going back to the HTG interview, Hot Spotting was one of the things that "wasn't" happening with Sandy's setup, so I'd be inclined to think that it could be worked around our at least minimized in your room also. Personally I like the fact that he'll throw away the rule book to make things sound right....
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post #68 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 10:46 AM
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Very interesting read, thanks!

I tried an angled speaker for LCR use a few years ago though and got very poor results. I tried the Thiel Powerpoint 1.2 speakers after glowing reviews but the soundstage sounded as if it were coming from near the ceiling. I guess these have fixed that issue... but many of the Thiel reviews said it sounded like floorstanders. This was obviously before Atmos mixing, though, which you state helps a good bit.
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post #69 of 125 Old 10-05-2015, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynebruce View Post
Hi Mark
Always look forward to each of your articles. They're always fun and informative to read.
Just had a wild idea and wondered what you thought.
I have a Emotiva XMC 1 pre-amp and realize it doesn't do Atmos, but thought about adding Goldenear speakers on the ceiling and wiring them to my L/R side inputs and getting a faux Atmos effect.
What are your thoughts?
Sounds crazy doesn't it. Can you buy Goldenear from a dealer on a trial basis?
Thanks for a reply.
Wayne B.
My side and rear surrounds are both Triad LCRs that are angled in their box and are installed in the soffit that goes around my room. I have the XMC and of course no Atmos decoding, and I get incredible overhead imaging. You would swear I have speakers up there. See my build thread for more details on the locations of the surrounds.
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post #70 of 125 Old 10-06-2015, 07:45 AM
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Great review Mark! I have four 7000's in my ceiling for Atmos in the Top Front and Top Rear positions and I just recently installed a pair of MPX's in for the Top Middle position. I can only use two pairs at a time but the GE's do a tremendous job regardless of what configuration I use. They were also my favorite from CEDIA last year. So far I prefer using the front and middle speakers as the Top Back position doesn't add much more than my rears do. The GE's have blended seamlessly in with my mains (Legacy Audio) and like you I couldn't recommend them more.
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post #71 of 125 Old 10-06-2015, 05:15 PM
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This is a very interesting concept. I like the innovation here and think this could catch on. I do wonder about diffraction with the speaker inset like that.
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post #72 of 125 Old 10-08-2015, 02:07 PM
 
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Mark, an excellent and thorough of this GE setup. A"stealth" implementation is really ideal for those of us who have a loving spouse who prioritizes aesthetics over acoustics. Too bad we have some forum members who enjoy debating irrelevant minutiae...kudos for you and Sandy hanging in there. The vast majority of us appreciate and respect those who have relevant insight and experience.

OK, so here is a question that I've not seen asked before. Assuming an all GE Invisa system like the one in your review, would you choose a 5.2.4 ($8,500 MSRP) configuration over a 7.1.4 ($7,500 MSRP)? Assume that room size is sufficient to handle the 7.1.4 configuration.

Put another way, is the 5.2.4 worth the $1,000 premium over the 7.1.4? I hope this makes sense...

NOTE: Here's the pricing (from the GE website) that I used in calculating the MSRP totals:
GoldenEar Invisa HTR 7000s (7.1.4 includes 9; the 5.2.4 includes 7) at $500 each
GoldenEar SuperSub XXLs (7.1.4 includes 1; the 5.2.4 includes 2) at $2,000 each
GoldenEar Invisa MPXs ( both configurations include 2) at $500 each

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post #73 of 125 Old 10-09-2015, 01:09 PM
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I am in the process of building a house with a somewhat open HT room in the basement. This VERY interesting review has made me re-think my speaker choices! My wife will certainly appreciate the change in appearance (and reduction in budget), and my cats certainly don't need more scratching posts.


My budget will be lower than the total of the reviewed speakers (particularly the sub!). Relative to the review system, how do you think a system with the following speakers might sound?


Five ceiling-mounted HTR 7000's for mains, center, and rear surrounds (there will be ample space between the rear surrounds and the listening couch).


Instead of four HTR 7000's, four Invisa 525's or 650's to serve as Atmos speakers (will these sound materially inferior to the 7000's? Do the 525's/650's sound materially different from each other?)?


A single Force Field 3 (or possibly 4) subwoofer.


All would be powered by a Marantz, Integra (or other ilk) 9.1 channel-enabled Atmos receiver.


Thank you for your insights!!!
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post #74 of 125 Old 10-09-2015, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blackbr View Post
I am in the process of building a house with a somewhat open HT room in the basement. This VERY interesting review has made me re-think my speaker choices! My wife will certainly appreciate the change in appearance (and reduction in budget), and my cats certainly don't need more scratching posts.


My budget will be lower than the total of the reviewed speakers (particularly the sub!). Relative to the review system, how do you think a system with the following speakers might sound?


Five ceiling-mounted HTR 7000's for mains, center, and rear surrounds (there will be ample space between the rear surrounds and the listening couch).


Instead of four HTR 7000's, four Invisa 525's or 650's to serve as Atmos speakers (will these sound materially inferior to the 7000's? Do the 525's/650's sound materially different from each other?)?


A single Force Field 3 (or possibly 4) subwoofer.


All would be powered by a Marantz, Integra (or other ilk) 9.1 channel-enabled Atmos receiver.


Thank you for your insights!!!
I am confident that combo will work. GoldenEar speakers strike me as having a very similar tonal balance across the whole line, so you can mix-and match depending on your budget and output needs. You are getting the Invisa-7000s for the channels you don't want to appear to come from overhead, and that's their special trick.

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post #75 of 125 Old 10-10-2015, 07:12 AM
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I have been kicking around a 7.2.4 ATMOS/DTS:X system for about a year now, thinking and second guessing myself on speaker selection and placement for the heights while I wait for the next generation of AVS equipment to ship (It has, Marantz 7010, just need to let JD know when I'm ready) and more titles worth watching to be released. (Call JD before making your AVS purchase, you'll be glad you did)

Long story short, my challenge is how to implement the height speakers in my room which has a cathedral ceiling, peak running across the room. The easiest way would be to put up SS3's at 8' - 9' along the sidewalls, but I'm afraid they would be too wide (about 30" outside my mains). I can also put HTR 7000's under soffits, at 8' at the perimeter of the room, again outside the mains. The other, and probably better (?) option, would be to use the HTR 7000's, mounted on the sloped surfaces of the ceiling, probably at about 11'-12', and oriented to optimize to the MLP.

My problem and the reason for posting in this thread rather than the ATMOS or general speaker thread, is that I can't get my head around the geometry needed to sus out the angles to determine proper placement of the speakers to optimize their effect. Since this thread is focused on GET ATMOS systems and implementation, I'm hoping that this focus will draw individuals with more experience and knowledge to comment on the possibilities and perhaps the hurdles to overcome in this situation. I doubt that I'm the only one with cathedral ceilings hoping to enjoy the new immersion experience and I want to have a reasonable expectation of success before a fairly significant cash outlay on equipment and labor to make it a reality.

I've tried to work this out with my local GET dealer, provided pictures of the room, even invited him to the house , to see first hand, with no success. At this point my confidence level in his suggestions for best results isn't very high. Just trying to educate myself so I can make an informed decision going forward.

Thoughts, suggestions, discussion are greatly appreciated.

Blues

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Triton II- L/R
SSXL - Center
SS3's - Surrounds and Rears
Rythmik 15 subs (2)
Heights - ?????????????

AVS Denon 1913, Upgrade to Marantz 7010 in the near future.

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post #76 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 11:48 AM
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Depending on a room's size and shape, it's possible to have an Invisa-based Atmos system comprised entirely of in-ceiling speakers (HTR 7000s), including the surrounds.
So it is possible to have ALL of the speakers in the ceiling?

If so, that would be awesome.
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post #77 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So it is possible to have ALL of the speakers in the ceiling?

If so, that would be awesome.
Yes, it is possible.

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post #78 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's my take on the system based on what I heard at CEDIA.

https://www.avsforum.com/goldenear-in...at-cedia-2015/

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post #79 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
GoldenEar Ultimate Invisa Lifestyle Atmos System Review

Here's the proto-installation of Sandy's concept for a Invisa HTR-7000 in-ceiling system.
Hope it sounds better than it looks
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post #80 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:16 PM
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Here's my take on the system based on what I heard at CEDIA.

https://www.avsforum.com/goldenear-in...at-cedia-2015/
Thank you, they are only using amps Pass Labs XA100.8 that are a lot worth more than the entire system

I wish I could have heard this https://www.avsforum.com/jbl-synthesi...at-cedia-2015/
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post #81 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, they are only using amps Pass Labs XA100.8 that are a lot worth more than the entire system

I wish I could have heard this https://www.avsforum.com/jbl-synthesi...at-cedia-2015/
I think all that was there for show (Pass Labs amps, Triton One towers) and actually the system was running off the Marantz.

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post #82 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
So it is possible to have ALL of the speakers in the ceiling?

If so, that would be awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yes, it is possible.
So, would you ( or Sandy ) use the set up you had with the 7 HTR-7000 and 2 MPX speakers all in the ceiling.

Or would you use all HTR-7000 as the 9 speakers in the ceiling?

Or?

And how the heck would you lay that out? As once you cut the holes in the ceiling you are pretty much stuck with placement, lol.
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post #83 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
So, would you ( or Sandy ) use the set up you had with the 7 HTR-7000 and 2 MPX speakers all in the ceiling.

Or would you use all HTR-7000 as the 9 speakers in the ceiling?

Or?

And how the heck would you lay that out? As once you cut the holes in the ceiling you are pretty much stuck with placement, lol.
It depends on room size and shape. If MPX in the walls works, I'd go for that for the side and rear surrounds in a 7.1.4. But I can easily think of room layouts where all in-ceiling could perhaps even work better, although I think you'd be limited to 5.1.4, I can't see how you could do full 7.1.4 effectively all in-ceiling.

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post #84 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 03:52 PM
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The Pass Labs were there for two channel only with Triton 1's.

Can't see why you can't use the Invisa MPX in the ceiling. Again room size and speaker location will determine the final speaker selection.

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post #85 of 125 Old 10-24-2015, 04:58 PM
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I think all that was there for show (Pass Labs amps, Triton One towers) and actually the system was running off the Marantz.
Thank you for clarifying, first let me say THANK YOU for all the reporting for those of us that could not go to CEDIA.

So you are saying they just get Pass lab to show off
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post #86 of 125 Old 10-25-2015, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
So it is possible to have ALL of the speakers in the ceiling?

If so, that would be awesome.
IMO in a way is a good idea but in another way not.

IMO is not the best idea for living room because you will be stuck to have your living set up the same way so is not good if your wife love to change the living room every year or every few years.

This suits better for a dedicated theater room or movie room.

(unless you buy extra speakers and add more cealing speakers in different locations.)

Last edited by losservatore; 10-25-2015 at 02:22 AM.
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post #87 of 125 Old 10-25-2015, 06:38 AM
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IMO in a way is a good idea but in another way not.

IMO is not the best idea for living room because you will be stuck to have your living set up the same way so is not good if your wife love to change the living room every year or every few years.

This suits better for a dedicated theater room or movie room.

(unless you buy extra speakers and add more cealing speakers in different locations.)
So when the wife decorates again you move the display? I would think as long as the seating format is close you are fine.

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post #88 of 125 Old 10-25-2015, 06:40 AM
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Thank you for clarifying, first let me say THANK YOU for all the reporting for those of us that could not go to CEDIA.

So you are saying they just get Pass lab to show off
As stated prior Sandy is a two channel guy at heart and Pass Labs has been his go to amp for years.
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post #89 of 125 Old 10-25-2015, 10:06 AM
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So when the wife decorates again you move the display? I would think as long as the seating format is close you are fine.
Yeah, the space is pretty much set and does not change all that much.

My deeper concern is ripping apart the ceiling to put 9 speakers in.
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post #90 of 125 Old 10-25-2015, 03:46 PM
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If you can get wire to the speakers it is a great alternative.

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