Elac Owners Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
Apologies if you already checked this, but check to see if any exposed speaker cable is touching anything, like other cables, or terminals. (Check both receiver end, and speaker end). Even a "wayward" strand or two can cause a problem. Hopefully that is your problem, and you don't have to buy a new receiver!

That was certainly the first thing I checked, but what makes me think that can't be the problem is that I have no problems running all 5 channels using 5.1 TV content. Still, I'll check again when I get the chance... you can never check often enough, I guess.

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post #332 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 02:44 PM
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I spent a little time listening to the B5's and then the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's. I listened to the following tracks:

Rivers and Roads (The Head and The Heart)
Drum and Bass Intro (Nils Lofgren, great demo track and the same track Andrew Jones used demoing the speakers at the RMAF)
Mira (Melody Gardot)
Amalia (Melody Gardot)
So Long (Melody Gardot)
Goodnite (Melody Gardot) I've recently fallen in love with Meldoy Gardot and could listen to her all day

I want to spend more time and hook them up with my Peachtree Nova 125 instead of my Pioneer SC1323, but the Pioneer is a good receiver, and I think most people will use these with a receiver. hHre are my initial impressions. The first thing that stood out is the cabinet on the Wharfedale's is better than the Elac's, IMO. My Wharfedale's are the rosewood finish and even though they are a vinyl wrap it is a pretty good one. The biggest difference is the weight and solidity of the cabinet, plus the Wharfedale is rounded and just has a more expensive look and feel to it. That doesn't mean the Elac's are bad and some might like the grayish vinyl wrap, but they are boxy and not as hefty and solid as the Wharfedale's. This isn't much of a surprise since even Andrew Jones talked about how he spent his time and budget mostly on driver development and not the cabinets. The Elac's cabinets are good for the money, but the Wharfedale's cabinet is clearly better. However, when it comes to sound its a mixed bag. The Wharfedales have a bigger sound stage, the mids are more pronounced, the hi's are smoother, but also don't have the occasional sparkle that the Elacs do. The reason I say occasional is because sometimes the Elac tweeter has some sparkle and "life likeness" that the Wharfedale's doesn't have, but with that also comes with some occasional harshness, while the Wharfedale's tend to stay more composed but also doesn't have as many "hair standing on the back of the neck" moments. The lower bass and bass clarity is better on the Elacs, but the Wharfedale's isn't bad, just not as much. In a smaller room both could get by without a sub for music, but the Elac's could make someone think there's a small sub in the room. One of the biggest differences I could tell is that the Elac's soundstage was more confined to between the speakers and was so concisely centered that it sounded like the center speaker was on, but it wasn't. The soundstage would extend beyond the center speaker but not beyond the speakers themselves (they're probably about 8 ft apart in my listening space). The Wharfedale's soundstage was much larger and extended beyond the speakers in both width and height. I think the difference in the soundstage may be a result of the superior cabinet construction. I also think the occasional harshness of the Elac's may also be due to the cabinet. I'm not smart enough and can't speak scientifically about it, but I just think the less resonant, more sold cabinet is allowing the Wharfedale's to have a bigger, wider sound stage. Maybe its something else, but the Wharfedale's clearly have a bigger stage. It would be hard to pick a winner between these because I think its more a matter of taste and style. You really can't go wrong with either. However, since the Wharfedale's are usually around $300 you can get the B6's for about the same price and still save a few $$. The tweeter is the same but I'm guessing its even more dynamic than the B5's with the bigger box and woofer. I guess the best way to sum up what I'm hearing is that sometimes the Elac's can sound spectacular, but then a bit harsh and unrefined, but then quickly back to spectacular. The Wharfedale's stay more composed and refined, but never quite hit the "shock and awe" moments (both good and bad) of the Elac's. They also have a bigger soundstage and look and feel better. Oh if the Elacs had a beefier cabinet I think they'd truly be amazing! If I had to pick to just one which would I buy at this point? Not quite sure yet..... I'll do more listening and maybe be able to answer that question. The good thing is I can keep both, until I get back to owning Salks or the new Philharmonitor, but that will have to wait a while
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post #333 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by t1337Dude View Post
So...were these speakers voiced with grills on or off?
I always balance speakers with the grille off. Grilles are a necessary evil ;-)

I wonder how many are commenting on the sound balance by listening with grille on?

Andrew
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post #334 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFidelity View Post

I'm afraid that my opinion is, this is another over hyped marketing ploy with Andrew Jones name attached to it. Once again....you get what you pay for.
I'm not going to argue against your opinion of the sound of my speakers, each to his own taste, but I will take issue with the idea of them being an over hyped marketing ploy with my name attached to them. My name and my personal reputation are worth much more to me than to allow myself to let my name be attached to something that I don't believe in, or that I haven't put all my attention effort and care into designing. Just saying.....
Of course, if you believe me and also think my designs are that bad, then you also no have an even lower opinion of me.....I guess I can't win them all ;-)

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post #335 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 04:05 PM
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The difference is that B&W sells through dealers with brick & mortar shops! So the cost the dealer pays for is 40 to 50% less than what the consumer pay for. ELAC sells direct and therefore eliminate the dealer

Of course some companies git really smart and start selling direct like KEF but they still charge the smae as their dealer so it means more profit to them as they bypass the dealers

Unfortunately most high end brands require to have dealers and ban internet sale!
Actually, these speakers do sell through brick and mortar independent retailers as well as Music Direct and Amazon, and as such they have standard dealer margins built-in exactly the same as companies such as B&W. We do not eliminate the dealer. We sold directly to begin with because we were in the process of setting up a dealer network yet wanted to satisfy those customers who wanted the speakers as soon as possible. But with this comes the cost of shipping and allowing for returns for those who are not completely satisfied. That is very costly for a new company so it's not free money by any means.
It's interesting how it is often assumed that an internet-only company can offer goods at up to 50% off retail, on the assumption that without a dealer there is no need for any markup in price. Such companies soon go out of business. What should be understood is the value of a dealer and how they increase overall business for the manufacturer. A good dealer offers demonstrations, local advertising and promotion, returns, delivery and perhaps home setup of more expensive product, and support at hi-fi shows. Without a dealer network, the manufacturer will have to pickup all these lost functions. This costs money! Especially for shipping and returns! The long term savings to the customer will not be as magically great as one might presume.
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post #336 of 2675 Old 11-16-2015, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
I always balance speakers with the grille off. Grilles are a necessary evil ;-)

I wonder how many are commenting on the sound balance by listening with grille on?

Andrew
Guess I've got a lot of old speakers from 1970-2000 to re-listen to with the grilles off. And a new pair of B5's to listen to grille on AND grille off!
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post #337 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 09:49 AM
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This ELAC vinyl finish looks better than cheap veneer and it confirms money was spent on drivers and crossovers above all else.

My biggest concern, after a few weeks with the B6, is how much the next ELAC line will cost because I'm near certain I will want a pair.
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post #338 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
I always balance speakers with the grille off. Grilles are a necessary evil ;-)

I wonder how many are commenting on the sound balance by listening with grille on?

Andrew
Andrew,

I know you have said u will be making a bigger F6 and smaller B4 speaker, are there any plans to make a bigger C6 center possibly a 3 way design?
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post #339 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loop7 View Post
This ELAC vinyl finish looks better than cheap veneer and it confirms money was spent on drivers and crossovers above all else.

My biggest concern, after a few weeks with the B6, is how much the next ELAC line will cost because I'm near certain I will want a pair.
I am very interested in this as well. Has anyone heard any info on the pricing for the step up line?
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post #340 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 02:06 PM
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I think Chris and Andrew should name at least one of their speakers the "2B".


That way, when people are evaluating weather to buy the new speaker, they will all ask: (get ready for it!!!)


2B, or NOT 2B, THAT is the Question!
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post #341 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
I think Chris and Andrew should name at least one of their speakers the "2B".


That way, when people are evaluating weather to buy the new speaker, they will all ask: (get ready for it!!!)


2B, or NOT 2B, THAT is the Question!
Dad get off this forum, you are embarrassing me in front of my friends!
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post #342 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
quote:
Originally posted by buddtx view post
i think chris and andrew should name at least one of their speakers the "2b".


That way, when people are evaluating weather to buy the new speaker, they will all ask: (get ready for it!!!)


2b, or not 2b, that is the question!
Dad get off this forum, you are embarrassing me in front of my friends!
lol

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post #343 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
I think Chris and Andrew should name at least one of their speakers the "2B".


That way, when people are evaluating weather to buy the new speaker, they will all ask: (get ready for it!!!)


2B, or NOT 2B, THAT is the Question!
Following the naming convention, 2B would be a 2" bookshelf.

so... NOT 2B is the answer...
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post #344 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 07:59 PM
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Hi Chris,

I was wondering if there is any updates on online stores/distributors that will ship the Debut series speakers to Canada?

Thanks!
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post #345 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 09:53 PM
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Following the naming convention, 2B would be a 2" bookshelf.

so... NOT 2B is the answer...
I don't know, be a nice option for someone's cubicle office, or laptop, so even Schwarzenegger is asking 2B or not 2B! He must be an Audiophile too!

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post #346 of 2675 Old 11-17-2015, 10:24 PM
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Some strange stuff going on there. It's possible that all of the crossover changes might improve the sound. But to my ears and measurements, the main problem is the wave guide built into the tweeter flange. That's what is restricting the horizontal dispersion and a sense of spaciousness. Also, any speaker with a crossover that places the woofer and tweeter in phase with each other on axis at the crossover point will exhibit a dip in the vertical off-axis response at the crossover point. That's not a necessarily a bad thing--it just shows that the speaker has a properly implemented Linkwitz-Riley even-order acoustic crossover. The fact that the revised crossover doesn't show this dip just indicates to me that the drivers aren't in phase on axis at the crossover point. It might still sound fine, or not, but you can't conclude that one crossover is better than another on the basis of the vertical off-axis response. I won't bore you with the details, but that's pretty much accepted gospel.
Well I guess I really stepped in it by weighing in on that modification thread. I tried to give some clarity but was ambushed.

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post #347 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 11:19 AM
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I'm really interested in the ELAC S12EQ and how well the eq works compared to what a receiver does.

If anyone has more impressions of the sub, I would appreciate it.
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post #348 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 03:25 PM
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Exclamation Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
Actually, these speakers do sell through brick and mortar independent retailers as well as Music Direct and Amazon, and as such they have standard dealer margins built-in exactly the same as companies such as B&W. We do not eliminate the dealer. We sold directly to begin with because we were in the process of setting up a dealer network yet wanted to satisfy those customers who wanted the speakers as soon as possible. But with this comes the cost of shipping and allowing for returns for those who are not completely satisfied. That is very costly for a new company so it's not free money by any means.
It's interesting how it is often assumed that an internet-only company can offer goods at up to 50% off retail, on the assumption that without a dealer there is no need for any markup in price. Such companies soon go out of business. What should be understood is the value of a dealer and how they increase overall business for the manufacturer. A good dealer offers demonstrations, local advertising and promotion, returns, delivery and perhaps home setup of more expensive product, and support at hi-fi shows. Without a dealer network, the manufacturer will have to pickup all these lost functions. This costs money! Especially for shipping and returns! The long term savings to the customer will not be as magically great as one might presume.
So if sold direct the cost would be 40% cheaper
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post #349 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 04:02 PM
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Well I guess I really stepped in it by weighing in on that modification thread. I tried to give some clarity but was ambushed.
Hi Rick What exact exchange are you referring to? I haven't kept up with that thread. I take it this was on Danny's forum?
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post #350 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 04:31 PM
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So if sold direct the cost would be 40% cheaper
Except for the very logical reasons Andrew listed as to why they can't be sold that cheaply, yes.
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post #351 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 05:49 PM
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So if sold direct the cost would be 40% cheaper
You misread my statement. I clearly say that it wouldn't be 40% cheaper !
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post #352 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 08:41 PM
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Hi Rick What exact exchange are you referring to? I haven't kept up with that thread. I take it this was on Danny's forum?
It was in my forum. If you get a chance to read the thread let me know what you think.

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post #353 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 08:50 PM
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So if sold direct the cost would be 40% cheaper
As an ID manufacturer I assure you that not all companies are passing on savings to customers. For instance, the AV123 speakers were sold with very nice profit margins even though the prices were considered to be "cheap". If Elac can sell a larger volume by using dealers that helps offset the markup needed by a dealer. Andrew also explained some of the other reasons. With lower price points it certainly can be done.

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post #354 of 2675 Old 11-18-2015, 09:17 PM
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It was in my forum. If you get a chance to read the thread let me know what you think.
Well, that was certainly an interesting read. I don't think I will open a similar topic on my AVS thread. I basically agreed with all of your responses on the technical issues. I would have to hear the mod in question before I could pass final judgment on the audible results of all the changes.
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post #355 of 2675 Old 11-19-2015, 05:51 AM
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It was in my forum. If you get a chance to read the thread let me know what you think.
Nice to see a manufacturer not located in California I work in Garner, had no idea you guys were here.

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post #356 of 2675 Old 11-19-2015, 11:31 AM
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I was wondering what you guys thought about the
Elac F5 compared to the Klipsch r-28f

Looking to pick a set of one of these up shortly and saw Best buy was going to have the klipsch for 249.99 ob black friday
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post #357 of 2675 Old 11-19-2015, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mdotconway View Post
I was wondering what you guys thought about the
Elac F5 compared to the Klipsch r-28f

Looking to pick a set of one of these up shortly and saw Best buy was going to have the klipsch for 249.99 ob black friday

If you can deal with horn tweeters, I can't, then that is one heck of a buy on the Klipsch. I have listened to them and they sound nice just harsh on my ears but they have nice bass which would allow you to skip out on a sub if you wanted. Go demo them at BestBuy and see how they sound to you. $500 / pr. when they are normally $950 /pr. sounds nice. Home theater guys love Klipsch for movies. I have not seen the ELAC F5's yes so I can't give any feedback on them.

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post #358 of 2675 Old 11-23-2015, 02:33 PM
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Bright, high treble sound. Balances great if you have a "dead" sounding receiver. They tend to be more efficient/sensitive as well.

Given that you're on this forum, you're probably looking for good quality audio. Don't just grab for great deals. Figure out what you really want and get that.

I haven't heard the F5s, but am waiting on delivery of the B6. From there, I'll decide whether it's worth doing the F5, center for another HT setup. If not, then I have another set of bookshelf speakers for anywhere.

Primarily waiting to see the speaker lineup possibly being presented at CES in January. Given the ELAC prices, I wouldn't mind spending more for the next set up from the Debuts.

For the money, I'd bet on the ELACs for better quality sound, the Klipsch for a more "fun" sound that is livelier and with more "sparkle" (stealing words from a CNET reviewer). I just hear a lot of treble, but people I know that own Klipsch learn to love them. I prefer balance from top to bottom, but don't like too "warm" a sound where I feel like I'm missing the upper part of the music either.

Some of the higher end stuff like the Aeriel speakers… just don't work for me. They space out the music too much and expose everything… which just kills the passion for me. I know that's what people pay 5 digits or more for, but my ears just can't appreciate such fine wine.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotconway View Post
I was wondering what you guys thought about the
Elac F5 compared to the Klipsch r-28f

Looking to pick a set of one of these up shortly and saw Best buy was going to have the klipsch for 249.99 ob black friday
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post #359 of 2675 Old 11-23-2015, 03:54 PM
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I'm now at the three week milestone with the B6s and every day I'm more impressed.
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post #360 of 2675 Old 11-26-2015, 08:52 AM
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Just wanted to let everyone know that my problem above wasn't the speakers at all. It was the Denon. All fixed now... watched Pan's Labyrinth last night and listened to Brahms Requiem this morning in Dolby Surround, both at around -8 dB, which is about as loud as I'm comfortable with. Loving the Elacs.

Thankful for my new system, along with all the important things. Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

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