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post #31 of 2668 Old 10-18-2015, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jacob Stendel View Post
One guy is claiming he likes them more than the KEF Ls50.. thats interesting to say.
The CNET reviewer owns and likes the KEF Ls50. He did not and of course would not make such comparisons. He however liked the $300 Chane A1rx-c. He liked the $350 Wharfedale Diamond 220s better than the Chanes. The latest CNET review of the B6 indicates that the new Elac speakers are superior to other two and other speakers priced under $500: "The ELAC Debut B6 offers sound quality which no other speakers under $500 can match. We heartily recommend them."

I'm OK with that. I don't care to talk down anyone's pricey gear. The B6 may even sound better than some $1000 speakers like some $1000 speakers may sound better than elite hi-fi gear I don't bother to even read about. For what it's worth, the B6 innards are "custom" right out of the factory and modding this speaker is borderline retarded.

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post #32 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chili99 View Post
The CNET reviewer owns and likes the KEF Ls50. He did not and of course would not make such comparisons. He however liked the $300 Chane A1rx-c. He liked the $350 Wharfedale Diamond 220s better than the Chanes. The latest CNET review of the B6 indicates that the new Elac speakers are superior to other two and other speakers priced under $500: "The ELAC Debut B6 offers sound quality which no other speakers under $500 can match. We heartily recommend them."

I'm OK with that. I don't care to talk down anyone's pricey gear. The B6 may even sound better than some $1000 speakers like some $1000 speakers may sound better than elite hi-fi gear I don't bother to even read about. For what its worth, the B6 innards are "custom" right out of the factory and modding this speaker is borderline retarded.
Exactly...it defeats the entire purpose of those speakers. Upgrading the innards of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR made more sense due to it's already basement price. However, these Elac Debuts are designed to be right where they are: not total entry-level, but highly competitive budget speakers.
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post #33 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 10:03 AM
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Just ordered some B6's today 10/19. My 14 year old daughter has "discovered" vinyl records. She loves them. I set her up with an old Yamaha receiver I have(love this old receiver), an audio-technic turntable and some cheap Sony Book Shelf speakers I had in the garage. Now I have a new room to rationalize trying out some new gear beyond my home theater room! LOL. I am going to hook up these speakers in place of the Sony's and see what it sounds like. I am running Definitive main speakers in the home theater room with a 2050 Yamaha so that will give a point of reference at least. Looking forward to trying them out with my daughter. I also have NHT bookshelves in the family room so those would make a good similar sized speaker to compare them against.


I must admit, I am chuckling over my daughters new found love of vinyl records. She never has "owned" music in the sense of buying a tangible "thing" that you can touch and feel. She loves the record stores and the artwork that comes with the albums and it give us something to do together on the weekends. Of course, I head to the used bin where my childhood is there in the form of old cheap records.
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post #34 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 10:07 AM
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Just ordered some B6's today 10/19. My 14 year old daughter has "discovered" vinyl records. She loves them. I set her up with an old Yamaha receiver I have(love this old receiver), an audio-technic turntable and some cheap Sony Book Shelf speakers I had in the garage. Now I have a new room to rationalize trying out some new gear beyond my home theater room! LOL. I am going to hook up these speakers in place of the Sony's and see what it sounds like. I am running Definitive main speakers in the home theater room with a 2050 Yamaha so that will give a point of reference at least. Looking forward to trying them out with my daughter. I also have NHT bookshelves in the family room so those would make a good similar sized speaker to compare them against.


I must admit, I am chuckling over my daughters new found love of vinyl records. She never has "owned" music in the sense of buying a tangible "thing" that you can touch and feel. She loves the record stores and the artwork that comes with the albums and it give us something to do together on the weekends. Of course, I head to the used bin where my childhood is there in the form of old cheap records.
this is awesome on so many levels - perhaps there still is hope for this world!
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post #35 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by heywaj10 View Post
Exactly...it defeats the entire purpose of those speakers. Upgrading the innards of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR made more sense due to it's already basement price. However, these Elac Debuts are designed to be right where they are: not total entry-level, but highly competitive budget speakers.
If you're referring to my mod of the 22's, the real purpose wasn't to upgrade the components themselves. It was to adapt the crossover for a different tweeter and to introduce a bit more baffle step compensation. From what I can tell, the "upgrade" of the ELAC doesn't change the circuitry or the drivers. It just replaces them with more expensive units of the same value.
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post #36 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by surfingstephens View Post
Just ordered some B6's today 10/19. My 14 year old daughter has "discovered" vinyl records. She loves them. I set her up with an old Yamaha receiver I have(love this old receiver), an audio-technic turntable and some cheap Sony Book Shelf speakers I had in the garage. Now I have a new room to rationalize trying out some new gear beyond my home theater room! LOL. I am going to hook up these speakers in place of the Sony's and see what it sounds like. I am running Definitive main speakers in the home theater room with a 2050 Yamaha so that will give a point of reference at least. Looking forward to trying them out with my daughter. I also have NHT bookshelves in the family room so those would make a good similar sized speaker to compare them against.


I must admit, I am chuckling over my daughters new found love of vinyl records. She never has "owned" music in the sense of buying a tangible "thing" that you can touch and feel. She loves the record stores and the artwork that comes with the albums and it give us something to do together on the weekends. Of course, I head to the used bin where my childhood is there in the form of old cheap records.
That's cool. I am doing something similar with my 12 year old nephew. He is really digging my CD collection and we enjoy hitting up the swap shops, yard sales, flea markets etc. looking for bargain CD buys to add to our collections. I haven't taken the vinyl plunge yet. I've been vinyl free since '83 when I got my first CD player.

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post #37 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Chili99 View Post
The CNET reviewer owns and likes the KEF Ls50. He did not and of course would not make such comparisons. He however liked the $300 Chane A1rx-c. He liked the $350 Wharfedale Diamond 220s better than the Chanes. The latest CNET review of the B6 indicates that the new Elac speakers are superior to other two and other speakers priced under $500: "The ELAC Debut B6 offers sound quality which no other speakers under $500 can match. We heartily recommend them."

I'm OK with that. I don't care to talk down anyone's pricey gear. The B6 may even sound better than some $1000 speakers like some $1000 speakers may sound better than elite hi-fi gear I don't bother to even read about. For what it's worth, the B6 innards are "custom" right out of the factory and modding this speaker is borderline retarded.
From Audiogon.
"My initial impression that I like them a lot better than the previous KEF LS50's I had"
LS50's, which I got bored with quickly,
While he doesnt directly compare them, he does talk about how he likes the ELAC's more then the KEFs a few times.
I'm not a fan of "break-in" reviews too. Maybe a few hours to get the suspension going, but saying 25-60-100 hours of listening will magically make a speaker sound marginally better is dumb. By then a persons ears will know how it sounds and then they'll just think it sounds better. If anything the FS will drop a little and the bass will pick up.
I agree with you saying that modding this speaker is dumb. But if in-house is offering an upgrade, then it leads me to think that the original, pre-upgraded version, could have been better. I for one would not opt to pay on a pair of speakers twice for a better performance but rather just pay for a great set from the get go.

My post probably sounds like I'm ranting. I'm just not a fan of his review.
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post #38 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacob Stendel View Post
From Audiogon.
"My initial impression that I like them a lot better than the previous KEF LS50's I had"
LS50's, which I got bored with quickly,
While he doesnt directly compare them, he does talk about how he likes the ELAC's more then the KEFs a few times.
I'm not a fan of "break-in" reviews too. Maybe a few hours to get the suspension going, but saying 25-60-100 hours of listening will magically make a speaker sound marginally better is dumb. By then a persons ears will know how it sounds and then they'll just think it sounds better. If anything the FS will drop a little and the bass will pick up.
I agree with you saying that modding this speaker is dumb. But if in-house is offering an upgrade, then it leads me to think that the original, pre-upgraded version, could have been better. I for one would not opt to pay on a pair of speakers twice for a better performance but rather just pay for a great set from the get go.

My post probably sounds like I'm ranting. I'm just not a fan of his review.
To me, saying it will take 25-60-100 hours is really saying "you will get used to them just keep on listening". I do understand things wear in and can justify that with most things but up to 100 hours of listening is crazy. They either sound good or not when you buy them. I guess that is why speakers are so subjective since everyone likes different tones from their favorite music.
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post #39 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
If you're referring to my mod of the 22's, the real purpose wasn't to upgrade the components themselves. It was to adapt the crossover for a different tweeter and to introduce a bit more baffle step compensation. From what I can tell, the "upgrade" of the ELAC doesn't change the circuitry or the drivers. It just replaces them with more expensive units of the same value.
Is this 'upgrade' suppose to be for the Debut?. It is barely out the door...

Do you have a link ?
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post #40 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
If you're referring to my mod of the 22's, the real purpose wasn't to upgrade the components themselves. It was to adapt the crossover for a different tweeter and to introduce a bit more baffle step compensation. From what I can tell, the "upgrade" of the ELAC doesn't change the circuitry or the drivers. It just replaces them with more expensive units of the same value.
Hey Dennis, I wasn't referring to your mods...it was more so directed to the idea of individuals (like AudioGon'ers) who feel the need to modify audio gear. Your last point is exactly what I was really getting at...it just doesn't make sense and defeats the purpose of the speaker in the form it was intended. Your modifications had a purpose; the individual "tweaks" that some choose to venture into typically don't.
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post #41 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 05:37 PM
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To me, saying it will take 25-60-100 hours is really saying "you will get used to them just keep on listening". I do understand things wear in and can justify that with most things but up to 100 hours of listening is crazy. They either sound good or not when you buy them.
Not necessarily. In 1996 or so I purchased a new pair of Dahlquist Prelude floorstanding loudspeakers, which were developed by Jon Dahlquist and Saul Marantz and introduced about two years earlier. (They cost about $2000/pair as I recall.) The upper midrange through the treble was very rough out of the box. As usual, I began to break them in by feeding them FM interstation hiss in a room with the door closed. After about 15 hours, no improvement (I gave them a quick listen using Linda Ronstadt's "What's New"). The next day, no change. Five days later (about 75 hours of play), still terrible. Now it's six days later and I am sure they are going back to the dealer. OK, I'll continue running them another day. After seven days they sound a bit better (finally!) but still far from acceptable. But I extend the run-in another day. On day 8 after dinner I listen again (same first minute or so of the Ronstadt song). What? Can't be. I play several songs. Hey, these speakers are oh, so smoooth. Go figure.

After about 105 hours of break-in the Dahlquists sounded lousy. But somewhere between hours 105 to 120 they vastly improved. I did not become accustomed to them during the break-in period--they offended my ears until day 8. Whether it was the tweeter, the crossover components, or both, the Dahlquists needed a ridiculous amount of time to sound good. Actually, they are really good and I still have them.

Thank you, Mr. Dahlquist and Mr. Marantz for such a fine loudspeaker. Sometimes patience is indeed a virtue.
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post #42 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 05:50 PM
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Not necessarily. In 1996 or so I purchased a new pair of Dahlquist Prelude floorstanding loudspeakers, which were developed by Jon Dahlquist and Saul Marantz and introduced about two years earlier. (They cost about $2000/pair as I recall.) The upper midrange through the treble was very rough out of the box. As usual, I began to break them in by feeding them FM interstation hiss in a room with the door closed. After about 15 hours, no improvement (I gave them a quick listen using Linda Ronstadt's "What's New"). The next day, no change. Five days later (about 75 hours of play), still terrible. Now it's six days later and I am sure they are going back to the dealer. OK, I'll continue running them another day. After seven days they sound a bit better (finally!) but still far from acceptable. But I extend the run-in another day. On day 8 after dinner I listen again (same first minute or so of the Ronstadt song). What? Can't be. I play several songs. Hey, these speakers are oh, so smoooth. Go figure.

After about 105 hours of break-in the Dahlquists sounded lousy. But somewhere between hours 105 to 120 they vastly improved. I did not become accustomed to them during the break-in period--they offended my ears until day 8. Whether it was the tweeter, the crossover components, or both, the Dahlquists needed a ridiculous amount of time to sound good. Actually, they are really good and I still have them.

Thank you, Mr. Dahlquist and Mr. Marantz for such a fine loudspeaker. Sometimes patience is indeed a virtue.
Well, I'm obviously not going to convince you, and vice versa. But when I hear stories like this, I have to wonder about the design process. Did Jon really break in all of the crossover components and drivers for 115 hours before he started work? If they sounded "terrible" even after 75 hours, how did they expect to keep them sold? Was there any warning in the owners' manual? What physical laws could account for such a drastic change in sound after over 100 hours of play? We now return you to the ELAC Owners Thread, of which I'll be one on Wednesday.
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post #43 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex F. View Post
Not necessarily. In 1996 or so I purchased a new pair of Dahlquist Prelude floorstanding loudspeakers, which were developed by Jon Dahlquist and Saul Marantz and introduced about two years earlier. (They cost about $2000/pair as I recall.) The upper midrange through the treble was very rough out of the box. As usual, I began to break them in by feeding them FM interstation hiss in a room with the door closed. After about 15 hours, no improvement (I gave them a quick listen using Linda Ronstadt's "What's New"). The next day, no change. Five days later (about 75 hours of play), still terrible. Now it's six days later and I am sure they are going back to the dealer. OK, I'll continue running them another day. After seven days they sound a bit better (finally!) but still far from acceptable. But I extend the run-in another day. On day 8 after dinner I listen again (same first minute or so of the Ronstadt song). What? Can't be. I play several songs. Hey, these speakers are oh, so smoooth. Go figure.

After about 105 hours of break-in the Dahlquists sounded lousy. But somewhere between hours 105 to 120 they vastly improved. I did not become accustomed to them during the break-in period--they offended my ears until day 8. Whether it was the tweeter, the crossover components, or both, the Dahlquists needed a ridiculous amount of time to sound good. Actually, they are really good and I still have them.

Thank you, Mr. Dahlquist and Mr. Marantz for such a fine loudspeaker. Sometimes patience is indeed a virtue.
Great comments. I am glad to hear someone actually had a pleasant experience with new speakers that sounded like crap for the first 105 hours of life. I never looked at my speakers like they were a pair of new Wrangler Jeans that just needed to be worn for a month or two before they were soft and comfortable. I know this is an exageration but I am sure you get my point. When people spend lots of money for speakers (relative to a person's monetary means that is) I expect as most people would that the product they are buying won't suck out of the box. I agree with the previous poster that wondered if there was info from the manufacturer regarding this "break in" perioid. If it is a situation you are advised of at purchase then no issue but if not...give me my money back.

Ok, back to the Elac thread. You owners enlighten us...we know they are now starting to show up on doorsteps. I need speakers. If you look at my signature below you can see why. I will be buying a pair in the next 2 weeks. So, owners please tell me if I need THESE speakers or should I look elsewhere!

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post #44 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 08:47 PM
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I'm listening to both B5's and F5's, as well as a few other speakers, and while I don't know that I have the listening or descriptive skills to do a highly meaningful review, I know what I like and can say that both of them needed an hour or so of play time before I began to enjoy them...

Break in? Brain adaption? Placebo effect? Not sure, but given the mechanical nature of speaker drivers, it isn't really that much of a stretch to think that they don't necessarily sound their best straight out of the box.
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post #45 of 2668 Old 10-19-2015, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm listening to both B5's and F5's, as well as a few other speakers, and while I don't know that I have the listening or descriptive skills to do a highly meaningful review, I know what I like and can say that both of them needed an hour or so of play time before I began to enjoy them...

Break in? Brain adaption? Placebo effect? Not sure, but given the mechanical nature of speaker drivers, it isn't really that much of a stretch to think that they don't necessarily sound their best straight out of the box.
Audioholics has an interesting article/paper on the matter. Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction?
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post #46 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:51 AM
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Would you guys suggest 3 B6 for LRC, or 3 F5 for LRC? Which is the better speaker for a more immersive sound field for movies and gaming? Thanks!
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post #47 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 09:31 AM
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Audioholics has an interesting article/paper on the matter. Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction?
Interesting article. As I read it, some speakers need burn in and some don't. I really didn't see a sound conclusion there or did I miss something?
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post #48 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting article. As I read it, some speakers need burn in and some don't. I really didn't see a sound conclusion there or did I miss something?
I believe the author is skeptical that speakers "need" burn in.
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post #49 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 02:03 PM
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I just ran across an article regarding the Klipsch RP-150M speaker and it give the author's view of this speaker vs. the Elac B6. I thought it might be interesting for anyone wanting more Elac info to read.

http://www.cnet.com/news/stand-back-...150m-speakers/

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post #50 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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"Sadly, I didn't have the ELAC B6 bookshelf speakers on hand to do a direct comparison, but I think that speaker has a more refined, smoother, more accurate sound, with a flatter frequency response and better-defined bass than the RP-150M. The RP-150M counters with bigger, more forceful dynamics and improved sensitivity, so it can play louder with low-power amps, yet also handle up to 300 watts."

Speaker sensitivity was one of my concerns with the new AJ speakers. According to AJ himself "electricity is cheap". Most receivers should however be able to drive these effortlessly.
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post #51 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:27 PM
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Any F5 reviews yet

Anyone with the Elac F5 care to do a review for the rest of us?

BTW - Amazon sold out already. They just got them yesterday
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post #52 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:29 PM
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"Sadly, I didn't have the ELAC B6 bookshelf speakers on hand to do a direct comparison, but I think that speaker has a more refined, smoother, more accurate sound, with a flatter frequency response and better-defined bass than the RP-150M. The RP-150M counters with bigger, more forceful dynamics and improved sensitivity, so it can play louder with low-power amps, yet also handle up to 300 watts."

Speaker sensitivity was one of my concerns with the new AJ speakers. According to AJ himself "electricity is cheap". Most receivers should however be able to drive these effortlessly.
The bold part above is what I like to hear. I have listened to the Klipsch and I bet many in the 2-channel group have since they are readily available at big box stores. If you look at speakers like the Kef Q100 and Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 that are both comparable to the B5 by Elac they all have a sensitivity of 85 - 86 dB at 2.83 v/1m but if you look at the frequency response the Elac is the winner with 46 to 20,000 Hz with Keff having 49Hz - 40kHz and Wharfedale having 48-24kHz. If these measurements are accurate the Elac will have higher highs and lower lows. The Klipsch wins with sensitivity and if playing loud music is what you like that would be a way to go. If you want a more refined, accurate sound with better-defined bass then the Elac B5 is the way to go. (Again, this is all on paper mind you)

As you can see, this is comparing apples to apples and the bottom line looks like the Elac B5 at $230 (Amazon) beats out the Kef Q100 $550 (Kef Store) and the Wharfedale $300 (On Sale @ Music Direct).

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post #53 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:31 PM
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Anyone with the Elac F5 care to do a review for the rest of us?

BTW - Amazon sold out already. They just got them yesterday
Have you seen the CNET review posted 2 days ago? Here it is:

http://www.cnet.com/products/elac-debut-f5/

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post #54 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The bold part above is what I like to hear. I have listened to the Klipsch and I bet many in the 2-channel group have since they are readily available at big box stores. If you look at speakers like the Kef Q100 and Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 that are both comparable to the B5 by Elac they all have a sensitivity of 85 - 86 dB at 2.83 v/1m but if you look at the frequency response the Elac is the winner with 46 to 20,000 Hz with Keff having 49Hz - 40kHz and Wharfedale having 48-24kHz. If these measurements are accurate the Elac will have higher highs and lower lows. The Klipsch wins with sensitivity and if playing loud music is what you like that would be a way to go. If you want a more refined, accurate sound with better-defined bass then the Elac B5 is the way to go. (Again, this is all on paper mind you)

As you can see, this is comparing apples to apples and the bottom line looks like the Elac B5 at $230 (Amazon) beats out the Kef Q100 $550 (Kef Store) and the Wharfedale $300 (On Sale @ Music Direct).
On paper specs as reported by manufacturers and assuming you don't bring a subwoofer into play the B6 has an edge so to speak on the lower end of the frequency range. Translating this into video world, I'd be buying a string of Westinghouse TVs purely based on specs and related bang for back considerations.
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post #55 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 03:51 PM
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Have you seen the CNET review posted 2 days ago? Here it is:

http://www.cnet.com/products/elac-debut-f5/
Yep but looking for actual owners - user reviews. CNET is fine, but I'd like to read more than 1 review.
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Actual owners have not been posting much.
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post #57 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 05:13 PM
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They are all probably working on burning them in before reporting on what they find.
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post #58 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 05:25 PM
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Actual owners have not been posting much.
Too busy listening...

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post #59 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 06:05 PM
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I've been listening to the B5s for a couple of days now and can honestly say that I like them. A lot.

Now, I know nothing of "airiness" or "veils" or such. I just know that they sound much better, to me, than what I replaced (Klipsch Promedia 2.1). I am using these in a near-field desktop setup so they are no more than 1m away from my listening position. They are being powered by an Audioengine N22 desktop amp which is fine for this office setup but would be less than ideal for a larger room or further listening distance. I did feel that the sound could benefit by having a bit more bass so I connected the Klipsch 7" powered sub to the audio out of the N22 and things got a bit better - once again, to me. I've had that Promedia setup for about 10 years and may just be accustomed to having the SW running. That being said, I have every intention of adding a more capable SW in the future.

The speakers sound great with everything that I have thrown at them so far - classic rock (Stones, Floyd), indie (Band of Horses, Neutral Milk Hotel), post-punk (New Order, Joy Division), jazz (Davis, Brubeck), etc. All of this is being sourced from a PC in flac format.

All of this is just one dude's opinion, and this dude's opinion is that the speakers sound great.
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post #60 of 2668 Old 10-20-2015, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Too busy listening...
Elac is relatively unknown as a speaker manufacturer here in the US. Other brands have threads with over a million views - I had to create this one a few days ago. Elac used to be bigger as a speaker manufacturer even in Germany. A couple of years ago they became Chinese-owned.
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