Elac Owners Thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 640Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2341 of 2807 Old 12-31-2018, 10:58 AM
Senior Member
 
springs113's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Any comments on how the newer debut 2.0 compares to the klipsch reference premiere line? looking to upgrade from an infinity primus setup.
night and day difference... the klipsch are brighter while the elacs are on the warmer side of things. The klipsch are clearer and better imho. The lows are better on the klipsch. My 600m bookshelves to me, play the lows better than the elac f6.2 towers. Elacs are muddier when it comes to clarity. The rp line from klipsch on a whole is a step up imho.
springs113 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2342 of 2807 Old 01-07-2019, 10:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 916
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 489 Post(s)
Liked: 390
I typically lean towards brighter speakers but the UB5s caught my interest so I recently picked up a pair - have to say that I really like them, even as someone who has always gravitated towards Def Tech and, more recently, Jamo, etc. I find their depth to be fantastic and the mid detail to be very articulate, with the overall mid-range comparable to the body that my Def Tech SM450s provide. Shifting back and forth between my various current speakers and the UB5s the differences in top-end can be pretty stark (e.g. Jamo S803s to the UB5s) but I find myself enjoying the highs of the UB5s once my ears adjust. The imaging and depth is also really good.

Nothing new there of course but thought I'd chime in as a perhaps 'unconventional' UB5 listener. Not sure if I'll ultimately keep them but I'd definitely like to.
KSpan is offline  
post #2343 of 2807 Old 01-07-2019, 11:35 AM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
When they (UB5) went to $316 on amazon, I said the heck with it and I picked up a pair of the UB5's to mess around with.

They definitely need time to break in. Just as I had remembered, the first day or two with them are pretty grinding to the ears if you are sensitive to treble (which I am). After a while, they settle in and lose a lot of the harshness.

And I still have no idea why people even bother with this speaker with smaller amps that are questionable at 4ohm loads. The better and more powerful amp you can give it, the better they sound. They become far more accurate, bass gets tighter and you can generally hear things that weren't as pronounced as before. And for a little box and 5 1/4" woofer, they dig decently deep. They won't rattle the windows, but you'll be surprised at what they can do. I've not heard another 5 1/4" bookshelf woofer that can keep up with them.

They are still a vastly better speaker than the Debut .2's (if you have an amp that can make them shine). I wasn't sure if I'd keep the UB5's, but at the price I got them for, I just may. I'd like to pair them with something like the PSAudio Sprout100 that'll do 100x2 @ 4ohms. For about $1000 total, it'd be a really sweet little setup. I wouldn't want any less of an amp, though.
_tk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2344 of 2807 Old 01-08-2019, 05:09 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Added a SUB3010 to my B6.2s - Very Happy

Well, I took the opportunity to grab a Sub3010 for half off during the holiday sale. I added it to my B6.2s and I am officially very impressed. My initial placement was not ideal sound wise but I was able to figure something else out and what a difference. It ended up in the classic front corner position and after tweaking all the settings and a few days of break in, it just blends and sounds great. I ended up setting the low pass at 80 hz. I've got $505 total into the B6.2s and the sub and I just can't get over how good it sounds.
Joe Mags is offline  
post #2345 of 2807 Old 01-09-2019, 04:48 AM
Senior Member
 
smdelaney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Greater Boston, MA
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
When they (UB5) went to $316 on amazon, I said the heck with it and I picked up a pair of the UB5's to mess around with.
...
And I still have no idea why people even bother with this speaker with smaller amps that are questionable at 4ohm loads. The better and more powerful amp you can give it, the better they sound.
I understand the power/impedance issues but I'm curious as to what you consider a "smaller amp". For purposes of the UB5 or the UC5, what do you consider a suitable power spec for an amp/AVR driving these speakers?

I'm not looking to start an argument about power here...its just that when folks use terms like "smaller" it is less than helpful without a baseline for comparison.

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."

-Steve-

TCL 55R617, Denon AVR-X2400H, Philips BDP-7502, Onkyo DX-C390, (2) HEOS 3HS2's,
Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble (FR/FL), MC150 (C), S100 (SR/SL), KLH E-12DB (SW)

Last edited by smdelaney; 01-09-2019 at 04:49 AM. Reason: typo correction
smdelaney is offline  
post #2346 of 2807 Old 01-09-2019, 07:42 AM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdelaney View Post
I understand the power/impedance issues but I'm curious as to what you consider a "smaller amp". For purposes of the UB5 or the UC5, what do you consider a suitable power spec for an amp/AVR driving these speakers?

I'm not looking to start an argument about power here...its just that when folks use terms like "smaller" it is less than helpful without a baseline for comparison.

I somewhat finished that thought later on in that post:

I'd like to pair them with something like the PSAudio Sprout100 that'll do 100x2 @ 4ohms. For about $1000 total, it'd be a really sweet little setup. I wouldn't want any less of an amp, though.

Basically, if you really want the dynamics that these speakers can provide, then you probably need at least 100WPC. There's no hard and fast rule for this, obviously.


And as for an update on the UB5's, they are really breaking in nicely. Almost all the initial harshness is gone and the bass is really starting to bloom.
_tk is offline  
post #2347 of 2807 Old 01-10-2019, 05:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JonFo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Big Canoe, GA, USA
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 266
RE: Power for the UB5 / UC5

I agree that a good dedicated >100Wpc power amp, or a high-quality AVR power section, like an Anthem with class-G amps, can really make the UB5 shine.

But if using them with subs, then the power demand moderates and most decent receivers with 80 to 100wpc @6 ohms can drive them well enough.

I run my UB5/UC5 combo as part of a secondary 5.1 system with four subs (yes 4, for room modal balance) off of an Onkyo NR818 (135Wpc) receiver, and there is plenty of output for the small (12x13') room I have them in. So a good bit depends on the room as well.

It actually holds up better than expected when compared to my monster 5.4.4 driven by 18ch worth of discrete amps, all 6' tall MartinLogan ESL system in the custom HT downstairs. I even caught myself listing to half an album streamed (44/16 FLAC from the Jriver MC) on the UB5's the other evening and thinking it sounded pretty good for box speakers (and I'm a card-carrying ESL: Electrostatic Speaker Lover ).
Scotth3886 likes this.

Jonathan
JonFo is offline  
post #2348 of 2807 Old 01-10-2019, 05:40 AM
Senior Member
 
smdelaney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Greater Boston, MA
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 520
@_tk and @JonFo ...Thank you both for the feedback.

I hope I didn't come across as snarky in my original question...it was not intended if anyone read it that way. Given the self-selection of us AVS form participants as enthusiasts I work off the assumption that most of us have higher powered equipment than the average consumer making "smaller" a bit of a moving target. I was just looking for more precise numbers and you both were very helpful in providing that.

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."

-Steve-

TCL 55R617, Denon AVR-X2400H, Philips BDP-7502, Onkyo DX-C390, (2) HEOS 3HS2's,
Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble (FR/FL), MC150 (C), S100 (SR/SL), KLH E-12DB (SW)
smdelaney is offline  
post #2349 of 2807 Old 01-10-2019, 06:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 916
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 489 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
RE: Power for the UB5 / UC5

I agree that a good dedicated >100Wpc power amp, or a high-quality AVR power section, like an Anthem with class-G amps, can really make the UB5 shine.

But if using them with subs, then the power demand moderates and most decent receivers with 80 to 100wpc @6 ohms can drive them well enough.

I run my UB5/UC5 combo as part of a secondary 5.1 system with four subs (yes 4, for room modal balance) off of an Onkyo NR818 (135Wpc) receiver, and there is plenty of output for the small (12x13') room I have them in. So a good bit depends on the room as well.

It actually holds up better than expected when compared to my monster 5.4.4 driven by 18ch worth of discrete amps, all 6' tall MartinLogan ESL system in the custom HT downstairs. I even caught myself listing to half an album streamed (44/16 FLAC from the Jriver MC) on the UB5's the other evening and thinking it sounded pretty good for box speakers (and I'm a card-carrying ESL: Electrostatic Speaker Lover ).
Agreed - I was concerned when I bought them but that seems to be unfounded for my use case. I'm running mine off of my Onkyo NR656 and they sound great, but I'm also only 8 ft or so from the speakers and am not trying to go for room-shattering sound. It seems that buyers just need to be a bit more aware of their usage and equipment with these than with other more common brands but most likely won't have any issues.
KSpan is offline  
post #2350 of 2807 Old 01-10-2019, 10:10 AM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdelaney View Post
@_tk and @JonFo ...Thank you both for the feedback.

I hope I didn't come across as snarky in my original question...it was not intended if anyone read it that way. Given the self-selection of us AVS form participants as enthusiasts I work off the assumption that most of us have higher powered equipment than the average consumer making "smaller" a bit of a moving target. I was just looking for more precise numbers and you both were very helpful in providing that.

Put it this way...the more power you give them, the more they will reward you. They sound good at 50wpc, but they sound fantastic at 125wpc. Real watts too, none of that "dynamic" crap that some receivers like to specify.
_tk is offline  
post #2351 of 2807 Old 01-12-2019, 07:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ok guys I need some advice from the ELAC gurus around here. I’ve just gone through a bunch of A/B testing with my B6.2 vs Pioneer BS22 and KEF Q150. I’m keeping the Elacs - however, the entertainment center won’t fit the B6.2 but will fit the B5.2... problem is I can’t find a definitive comparison between the 6 and the 5.

Can anyone tell me how similar the B5.2 and B6.2 sound? Bass response, clarity, soundstage, anything I’ll be missing by going with the smaller version?

Also I’m just curious if anyone here knows (or has wondered) how soon the Debut line will be updated again? Will there be a third generation Debut series just around the corner?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #2352 of 2807 Old 01-12-2019, 08:28 PM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Ok guys I need some advice from the ELAC gurus around here. I’ve just gone through a bunch of A/B testing with my B6.2 vs Pioneer BS22 and KEF Q150. I’m keeping the Elacs - however, the entertainment center won’t fit the B6.2 but will fit the B5.2... problem is I can’t find a definitive comparison between the 6 and the 5.

Can anyone tell me how similar the B5.2 and B6.2 sound? Bass response, clarity, soundstage, anything I’ll be missing by going with the smaller version?

Also I’m just curious if anyone here knows (or has wondered) how soon the Debut line will be updated again? Will there be a third generation Debut series just around the corner?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you're using a subwoofer it'll probably be a moot point. But to answer your question, I haven't seen many direct tests between the 5.2 and 6.2. If they are anything like my F5.2's vs the set of B6.2's that I had, all you'd be giving up is a bit of bass response. Thus my subwoofer comment.

And AJ seems to have been busy lately with the Navis and Carina, so I doubt we'll see a new debut anytime soon.
_tk is offline  
post #2353 of 2807 Old 01-12-2019, 09:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
If you're using a subwoofer it'll probably be a moot point. But to answer your question, I haven't seen many direct tests between the 5.2 and 6.2. If they are anything like my F5.2's vs the set of B6.2's that I had, all you'd be giving up is a bit of bass response. Thus my subwoofer comment.



And AJ seems to have been busy lately with the Navis and Carina, so I doubt we'll see a new debut anytime soon.


Is that to say your B6.2 bookshelves had better bass than your F5.2 towers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #2354 of 2807 Old 01-13-2019, 05:52 PM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
Is that to say your B6.2 bookshelves had better bass than your F5.2 towers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Better bass is relative since the entire .2 line is down in bass compared to the original debut line. But yes, the 6.2 bookshelves had a bit more in the low end department than my 5.2 towers have. Not huge, but it is there.

Again though, with a sub, I doubt you'd even notice. If I were sitting up a HT system and using bookshelves, I'd probably go with the 5.2's just for size and the fact that what the 6.2 gives you won't really be noticed with a good sub.

Edit: Unless the B6.2 goes to $149 again and is cheaper than the B5.2, then get the 6.2.

Last edited by _tk; 01-13-2019 at 06:05 PM.
_tk is offline  
post #2355 of 2807 Old 01-13-2019, 09:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Better bass is relative since the entire .2 line is down in bass compared to the original debut line. But yes, the 6.2 bookshelves had a bit more in the low end department than my 5.2 towers have. Not huge, but it is there.



Again though, with a sub, I doubt you'd even notice. If I were sitting up a HT system and using bookshelves, I'd probably go with the 5.2's just for size and the fact that what the 6.2 gives you won't really be noticed with a good sub.



Edit: Unless the B6.2 goes to $149 again and is cheaper than the B5.2, then get the 6.2.


Unfortunately the B6.2 won’t fit properly in our entertainment center so it will have to be B5.2s (with a sub). Your post is helpful, I was hoping I wouldn’t be missing out on too much with the smaller version.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #2356 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 06:45 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: KALIZUELA
Posts: 10,215
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Put it this way...the more power you give them, the more they will reward you. They sound good at 50wpc, but they sound fantastic at 125wpc. Real watts too, none of that "dynamic" crap that some receivers like to specify.
you do realize that in any set up[ especially one with powered subs] one only use a few watts/channel for most of the time? of course if one blasts things consistently you might use some more, but the point remains as long as an amp remains within it's linear specs regarding it's distortion figures, the actual RMS rating has very little if any of it's actual performance. Meaning if one only use say 30w of power/channel, using amps that rated 120w/channel vs a 60w will have no effect at all. Of course will assume that both amps were rated in the same way, or as you say "real watts".
jasn and Scotth3886 like this.

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!

You want true diversity? Champion the diversity of thoughts!

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #2357 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 08:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Liked: 2764
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
you do realize that in any set up[ especially one with powered subs] one only use a few watts/channel for most of the time? of course if one blasts things consistently you might use some more, but the point remains as long as an amp remains within it's linear specs regarding it's distortion figures, the actual RMS rating has very little if any of it's actual performance. Meaning if one only use say 30w of power/channel, using amps that rated 120w/channel vs a 60w will have no effect at all. Of course will assume that both amps were rated in the same way, or as you say "real watts".
Correct.

I have Elac B6s and F6.2s and have had B6.2s here too. I generally drive the F6.2s with my Yamaha AS301 as I did my B6s, which is only 60w per channel. Have compared several times using the F6.2s with the Hegel H100 (120w at 8 and 220w at 4) and my brother's Denon x6300 and no real difference. Doubling power gives only 3db extra headroom so if you're driving these within an inch of their life, maybe you'll hear something. The Elacs don't resolve well enough that I hear much of a difference with anything. That being said, I really like them for speakers that don't drive me crazy by resolving too well as my ESLs do. Bass is also improved in the .2 series in that they articulate better than the original debuts in that, for example, on a string bass sounds more like a string bass instead of a thud as the originals do. So with a bowed bass, you hear more of the serrations of the bow than you can with the originals.

Have also heard the Elacs many times with the Elac integrated which is only 40w at 8 and bass was very nice and a big improvement over the original Debuts.
thehun likes this.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #2358 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 11:30 AM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
you do realize that in any set up[ especially one with powered subs] one only use a few watts/channel for most of the time? of course if one blasts things consistently you might use some more, but the point remains as long as an amp remains within it's linear specs regarding it's distortion figures, the actual RMS rating has very little if any of it's actual performance. Meaning if one only use say 30w of power/channel, using amps that rated 120w/channel vs a 60w will have no effect at all. Of course will assume that both amps were rated in the same way, or as you say "real watts".
Literally every review of the UB5's says the opposite and that the more power you give them, the more dynamic they become...yet I can always count on folks here telling me about the "first watt" principal.

I really wish people would test things rather than just repeat the rhetoric that gets kicked around here. Or, actually read some professional reviews where they state that giving them power improved sound (and not just at earbleed levels).

I own them and I did hook to a few different amps and guess which one they sound better on? Yep, the one that puts out over 100WPC. And again, not just at levels that would run one out of the room.

But whatever. I'm probably just hearing stuff.
_tk is offline  
post #2359 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 11:44 AM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post



Have also heard the Elacs many times with the Elac integrated which is only 40w at 8 and bass was very nice and a big improvement over the original Debuts.
By this I will assume that you mean "better" bass and not "more" bass. Because the .2's bookshelves can't hold a candle to the originals in terms of the "more" aspect. Same goes for the 5 1/4" towers. I cannot speak for the 6.5" towers though as I've not owned either.

Again though, it's a "budget" speaker line. To get better highs and mids, something had to be sacrificed. Elac themselves will tell you this.

I liked the somewhat less accurate but more (bass) aspect of the originals though. They are a fun speaker to listen to for 2-channel. They are indeed flabby when underpowered though.

FWIW, the UB5's take the accuracy of the .2's and combine that with the "more" of the originals. Every time I listen to them I come away impressed.
_tk is offline  
post #2360 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 01:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Liked: 2764
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
By this I will assume that you mean "better" bass and not "more" bass. Because the .2's bookshelves can't hold a candle to the originals in terms of the "more" aspect. Same goes for the 5 1/4" towers. I cannot speak for the 6.5" towers though as I've not owned either.

Again though, it's a "budget" speaker line. To get better highs and mids, something had to be sacrificed. Elac themselves will tell you this.

I liked the somewhat less accurate but more (bass) aspect of the originals though. They are a fun speaker to listen to for 2-channel. They are indeed flabby when underpowered though.

FWIW, the UB5's take the accuracy of the .2's and combine that with the "more" of the originals. Every time I listen to them I come away impressed.

"By this I will assume that you mean "better" bass and not "more" bass. Because the .2's bookshelves can't hold a candle to the originals in terms of the "more" aspect."

Good. Prefer 'better' versus 'more'.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #2361 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 02:35 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: KALIZUELA
Posts: 10,215
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Literally every review of the UB5's says the opposite and that the more power you give them, the more dynamic they become...yet I can always count on folks here telling me about the "first watt" principal.
It's not the first watt principal, it's a simple fact that you not taxing most amps not even close with a typical music or HT playback, and the so called wattage will only matter when you actually pushing it close to it's true rating.

Quote:
I really wish people would test things rather than just repeat the rhetoric that gets kicked around here.
Test what? This is a rather well established fact, not opinions. Now there are speakers that are notoriously hard to drive and more wattage could be beneficial, though more current might be more important in that case, but the Elac doesn't fit that profile
Quote:
Or, actually read some professional reviews where they state that giving them power improved sound (and not just at earbleed levels).
yeah that's sound very professional!
Quote:
I own them and I did hook to a few different amps and guess which one they sound better on? Yep, the one that puts out over 100WPC. And again, not just at levels that would run one out of the room.

But whatever. I'm probably just hearing stuff.
cool story bro!
jasn and Scotth3886 like this.

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!

You want true diversity? Champion the diversity of thoughts!

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #2362 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 03:47 PM
_tk
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
It's not the first watt principal, it's a simple fact that you not taxing most amps not even close with a typical music or HT playback, and the so called wattage will only matter when you actually pushing it close to it's true rating.


Test what? This is a rather well established fact, not opinions. Now there are speakers that are notoriously hard to drive and more wattage could be beneficial, though more current might be more important in that case, but the Elac doesn't fit that profile


yeah that's sound very professional!


cool story bro!
Cool reply bro!


I guess low sensitivity and low impedance means nothing in the real world, right? We have "only 3db" with double the power, correct? Headroom and swings in dynamic ranges are only myths.

How many reviews would you like me to link from reviewers that state the Uni-Fi's take a decently stout amp to push them properly?

Here's one:

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/elac-uni-fi-ub5-review/


Here's one from Elac themselves recommending 100WPC:

https://www.elac.com/forums/topic/ub5s-and-power/


I dunno though, my ears are obviously different from others because they hear things that you tell me should not exist.
_tk is offline  
post #2363 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Liked: 2764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Correct.

I have Elac B6s and F6.2s and have had B6.2s here too. I generally drive the F6.2s with my Yamaha AS301 as I did my B6s, which is only 60w per channel. Have compared several times using the F6.2s with the Hegel H100 (120w at 8 and 220w at 4) and my brother's Denon x6300 and no real difference. Doubling power gives only 3db extra headroom so if you're driving these within an inch of their life, maybe you'll hear something. The Elacs don't resolve well enough that I hear much of a difference with anything. That being said, I really like them for speakers that don't drive me crazy by resolving too well as my ESLs do. Bass is also improved in the .2 series in that they articulate better than the original debuts in that, for example, on a string bass sounds more like a string bass instead of a thud as the originals do. So with a bowed bass, you hear more of the serrations of the bow than you can with the originals.

Have also heard the Elacs many times with the Elac integrated which is only 40w at 8 and bass was very nice and a big improvement over the original Debuts.

So again.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #2364 of 2807 Old 01-14-2019, 08:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Elac Owners Thread

This whole argument over the benefits of expensive amps will only be put to rest when a third party conducts double blind tests to prove a difference. There have been a few less rigorous tests that I’ve seen documented online but they all showed no difference between very cheap and very expensive front ends. To claim that expensive amps deliver their watts “better” than cheap ones, one should have some data to backup those claims - because on their face, those claims fly in the face of common sense as well as basic electrical engineering theory.

Some will say “professional reviewers agree that expensive amps sound better” however that is not empirical evidence - their very professional existence depends on pushing expensive audio gear.

Speakers themselves are legitimately very different from each other and the quality and sound signatures vary greatly - because you’re talking about transducer and crossover designs which vary greatly... however amps have a much more simple job to do, and as long as they’re doing it properly, there’s been no clear evidence to suggest that anybody can tell a difference.

I believe the high end audio industry could easily fund the studies to legitimately show the benefits of high end gear if they were scientifically provable. And it would be in their best interest to do so IF their claims were true. The fact that they haven’t seems to me a clear indication that the industry actually relies on keeping their customers in the dark. But that is not unique to the high end audio industry

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gregoryperkins and Scotth3886 like this.

Last edited by pcar964; 01-15-2019 at 09:12 AM.
pcar964 is offline  
post #2365 of 2807 Old 01-15-2019, 04:28 PM
Senior Member
 
smdelaney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Greater Boston, MA
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdelaney View Post
I'm not looking to start an argument about power here...its just that when folks use terms like "smaller" it is less than helpful without a baseline for comparison.
So much for not starting an argument...

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."

-Steve-

TCL 55R617, Denon AVR-X2400H, Philips BDP-7502, Onkyo DX-C390, (2) HEOS 3HS2's,
Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble (FR/FL), MC150 (C), S100 (SR/SL), KLH E-12DB (SW)
smdelaney is offline  
post #2366 of 2807 Old 01-15-2019, 07:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
This whole argument over the benefits of expensive amps will only be put to rest when a third party conducts double blind tests to prove a difference. There have been a few less rigorous tests that I’ve seen documented online but they all showed no difference between very cheap and very expensive front ends. To claim that expensive amps deliver their watts “better” than cheap ones, one should have some data to backup those claims - because on their face, those claims fly in the face of common sense as well as basic electrical engineering theory.

Some will say “professional reviewers agree that expensive amps sound better” however that is not empirical evidence - their very professional existence depends on pushing expensive audio gear.

Speakers themselves are legitimately very different from each other and the quality and sound signatures vary greatly - because you’re talking about transducer and crossover designs which vary greatly... however amps have a much more simple job to do, and as long as they’re doing it properly, there’s been no clear evidence to suggest that anybody can tell a difference.

I believe the high end audio industry could easily fund the studies to legitimately show the benefits of high end gear if they were scientifically provable. And it would be in their best interest to do so IF their claims were true. The fact that they haven’t seems to me a clear indication that the industry actually relies on keeping their customers in the dark. But that is not unique to the high end audio industry

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As sure as I may seem in my opinion above, I am always happy to be wrong and learn something new. Along those lines, can anyone suggest an amplifier which will be a noticeable improvement over my current Onkyo SR353 for under $400? I will buy and A/B test a higher end amp against my Onkyo with my B5.2s and B6.2s to see for myself. If there is in fact an improvement, I will document my findings here (will start a new thread), and keep the new amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pcar964 is offline  
post #2367 of 2807 Old 01-16-2019, 05:30 AM
EM3
Advanced Member
 
EM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Logan, WV.
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 76
SO if anyone gets to audition the Carina line I would love to hear your thoughts and impressions. The ribbon tweeters have me interested. Not too sure how they would be for rock and roll. YouTube video attached for fun....


daddyora likes this.

This space for rent!
EM3 is offline  
post #2368 of 2807 Old 01-17-2019, 01:32 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by EM3 View Post
SO if anyone gets to audition the Carina line I would love to hear your thoughts and impressions. The ribbon tweeters have me interested. Not too sure how they would be for rock and roll. YouTube video attached for fun....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxOSI6l4C7A
Yeah, looking forward to reviews comparing the Carina with the Ascend Sierra-2 and perhaps the KEF LS50. The Ascend and the KEF seem to hold the "high ground" around this price point and it's exciting to see ELAC wading in with a Jones designed speaker. I'm about to update my system and now these 3 speakers are the leading contenders for me. I am about 80% HT so dialogue clarity is important but loudness is not. I'd like to hear comments from anyone who happened to hear the Carina line at the show.
daddyora is offline  
post #2369 of 2807 Old 01-18-2019, 04:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by EM3 View Post
SO if anyone gets to audition the Carina line I would love to hear your thoughts and impressions. The ribbon tweeters have me interested. Not too sure how they would be for rock and roll. YouTube video attached for fun....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxOSI6l4C7A
How do you handle the bottom port on the new Carina bookshelf speaker when using it on a stand ? Will it require a special stand ?
daddyora is offline  
post #2370 of 2807 Old 01-18-2019, 04:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dargent0628's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar964 View Post
As sure as I may seem in my opinion above, I am always happy to be wrong and learn something new. Along those lines, can anyone suggest an amplifier which will be a noticeable improvement over my current Onkyo SR353 for under $400? I will buy and A/B test a higher end amp against my Onkyo with my B5.2s and B6.2s to see for myself. If there is in fact an improvement, I will document my findings here (will start a new thread), and keep the new amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can do what I did and pick up a classic ADCOM GFA amp (535, 545, 555...). These are workhorse power amps, no frills, universally respected. I got my 545 for $200, free shipping. A couple of scratches, some wear on the faceplate...otherwise perfect. Using an old Harman Kardon AVR 210 ' s preouts for a strictly 2 - channel setup in an upstairs "retreat..." I'm rotating speakers...enjoyed the 6.2 ' s very much, loved the mids and the "better" bass. The highs, not quite so much...anyway, the older Harman Kardon is sort of a beast on it's own and sounds great--drives everything easily so far. I got the ADCOM A) out of curiosity over the "do amps sound better/perform better??" debate and B) because I want to be able to confidently drive lower impedance speakers if and when I find some that interest me. For instance, if I find a pair of old Maggies or Quads at a sweet price, I think the ADCOM will drive them far more safely and to healthy db ' s than a typical modern AVR.

Having said all that, I'd predict that you will notice no difference in a blind A/B comparison driving the same pair of Elacs.
Dargent0628 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
debut f5 , elac , SA-XR55

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off