Elac Owners Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 2671 Old 01-10-2020, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by daddyora View Post
I've got a lot "wrong" with my setup; ie hard surfaces, couch against wall, etc but the old adage about timbre matching speakers isn't one of them.
I have the same setup with couch against wall, and probably a dozen things more that are wrong. But I'm marching forward and see what I can do
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post #2612 of 2671 Old 01-10-2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Other than the subpar Pioneer center channel, the BS-22 bookshelves still make a relatively decent budget HT setup. You can also get the Atmos add-ons for the BS22's (or just buy the versions that come with them).

I'd concentrate on a good sub and a good center channel otherwise.

Yea that was my first choice (the ones with the atmos upfiring built in - EBS-73). But then after trying some higher end soundbars and satellites with upfiring speakers, I was not impressed. I think my room is just not good for upfiring speakers so I'm trying to get actually near ceiling placed speakers.
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post #2613 of 2671 Old 01-11-2020, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hi Helvitica,

You should not have any problem mixing SVS Atmos speakers with the ELAC's. We have used a couple of different brands of Atmos modules with the Debut speakers with good luck. Just make sure they fit on top (Dimension wise) and run the auto EQ on your receiver.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
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@Walkamo @helvetica bold - Hi. I know I'm resurrecting something from a few years ago but I've been searching for an answer to this for a while now. So glad I was able to find this discussion hidden in this thread!

Helvetica did you end up setting up your system as you described above with ELAC bookshelves and adding SVS prime elevations for heights? I'm curious what you thought? I wish there was a website in which we can see the different timbre's of speakers on a graph to try to estimate how tonally matched they will be. I was considering ELAC 2.0 B6.2's for fronts and pairing the SVS elevations with them. ELAC also has wall mounted speakers, Debut OW4.2 which are supposed to be decent but I think it would be awkward to put them on a ceiling. I'm also curious what receiver you used for your 5.1.4 set up? I know nowadays they have pretty good room correction so maybe that helped?

Chris, I appreciate your response as well. Has there been any change between then and now that you think I should consider with this pairing of ELACs and SVS prime elevations?

Thanks!
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post #2614 of 2671 Old 01-12-2020, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sanj101 View Post
I wish there was a website in which we can see the different timbre's of speakers on a graph to try to estimate how tonally matched they will be.

The problem is timbre is totally subjective and system/ room dependent. Which reviewer(s) opinions do you trust and most align with your subjective preference? Amongst that small group, who has the resources to test all the speakers you’re potentially interested in? Things very quickly get out of control. There are just too many variables.
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post #2615 of 2671 Old 01-12-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
The problem is timbre is totally subjective and system/ room dependent. Which reviewer(s) opinions do you trust and most align with your subjective preference? Amongst that small group, who has the resources to test all the speakers you’re potentially interested in? Things very quickly get out of control. There are just too many variables.
Hmmm. Good points and makes sense...but one can still wish


Actually I was thinking about the Debut A4.2 Atmos upfiring modules. They are meant to be up firing but I've read other places that people have mounted various upfiring modules from other brands to the ceiling and this works pretty well.

I'm wondering if anyone knows if the ELAC A4.2 Atmos model can be easily mounted to the ceiling facing downwards? Also if they will sound as good as (or almost as good) as SVS Prime Elevations mounted at the ceiling level? SVS Elevations are 8ohm and sensitivity is 87dB compared to ELAC with 6ohm and sensitivity of 85dB. Then again the rest of the ELAC in that series are 87dB sensi Lastly, if the sound quality the ELAC as a ceiling mounted speaker might be on par, or less than the sounds of SVS Prime Elevations?

My set up ELAC 2.0 B6.2, and C6.2 and Wall mounted OW-4 for rear (or side) surrounds. Need front heights and/or rear with either SVS elevation or ELAC A4 Atmos modules.

Thanks.
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post #2616 of 2671 Old 01-13-2020, 07:47 PM
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Looks like these babies are on SALE again!


Do I buy them? I want to get the Uni-Fi's with the SLIM center channel...... I wish they offered the on wall speakers and atmos add ones (planning on putting them ON the ceiling) of the Debut range, what should I use for atmos speakers if I go Unif-FI's?


Would a Yamaha 3080 with the 2 towers powered by another amp be able to handle 9 of these? Or would the Denon 6500 or Marantz 8012 be able to handle 11 of these?
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post #2617 of 2671 Old 01-13-2020, 07:50 PM
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I don't think the sale is quite as good as the one in December tho.......


Do we have a full rundown on the Debut reference line yet?
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post #2618 of 2671 Old 01-13-2020, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
Looks like these babies are on SALE again!


Do I buy them? I want to get the Uni-Fi's with the SLIM center channel...... I wish they offered the on wall speakers and atmos add ones (planning on putting them ON the ceiling) of the Debut range, what should I use for atmos speakers if I go Unif-FI's?


Would a Yamaha 3080 with the 2 towers powered by another amp be able to handle 9 of these? Or would the Denon 6500 or Marantz 8012 be able to handle 11 of these?
What exactly is on sale? And from what site or vendor?

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post #2619 of 2671 Old 01-13-2020, 08:29 PM
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What exactly is on sale? And from what site or vendor?

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Debut 2.0 and Uni-Fi's, Best Buy, Crutch Field, wonder if they really are going to replace/refresh them soon...... The Reference pricing is VERY close to the Uni-Fi.
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post #2620 of 2671 Old 01-14-2020, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
Debut 2.0 and Uni-Fi's, Best Buy, Crutch Field, wonder if they really are going to replace/refresh them soon...... The Reference pricing is VERY close to the Uni-Fi.
Seems logical that Elac will refresh the Uni-Fi line this year as they did with the Debuts last yr. With the Carina/Jet out and the new Reference series crowding the Uni-Fi's, moving the Uni-Fi up a notch in price/performance seems to make sense. Through all of this, Elac is increasing the price for their speakers and it stills needs to be assessed if the performance is going up by a similar degree. The Uni-Fi's need to be 6-8 ohm rated speakers and the finish needs an improvement. Probably throw in more bracing and a modified cross-over to justify the price change.
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post #2621 of 2671 Old 01-14-2020, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyora View Post
Seems logical that Elac will refresh the Uni-Fi line this year as they did with the Debuts last yr. With the Carina/Jet out and the new Reference series crowding the Uni-Fi's, moving the Uni-Fi up a notch in price/performance seems to make sense. Through all of this, Elac is increasing the price for their speakers and it stills needs to be assessed if the performance is going up by a similar degree. The Uni-Fi's need to be 6-8 ohm rated speakers and the finish needs an improvement. Probably throw in more bracing and a modified cross-over to justify the price change.
Is 4ohm really that bad? I mean I know they are 4ohm AND only like 85db, but it just being 4ohm that bad? Martin Logan's are 4ohm so are a lot of others.
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post #2622 of 2671 Old 01-14-2020, 07:40 AM
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Elac Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
Is 4ohm really that bad? I mean I know they are 4ohm AND only like 85db, but it just being 4ohm that bad? Martin Logan's are 4ohm so are a lot of others.

4ohm really doesn’t say much and no it’s not a problem per se. There’s no standard for this measurement over the entire frequency range anyhow. It’s just marketing, an opinion. However, it does hint that these speakers sound their best when pushed with high power, high current capability amps. Like ~400W solid state monoblocks. Which is kind of a strange pairing for entry level speakers. Fortunately I have such amplifiers.

I’ve been so close to pulling the trigger on the Uni-fi UF5. They’re so tempting at sale prices. I hope supplies last until late summer when I’ll be in a better position to buy them (on sale of course!) before being discontinued. I’ve got to finish some home projects first. It doesn’t make sense for me to buy them now knowing they’ll just sit in a box for 9 months.

I get the feeling that the value proposition won’t be as enticing with the next generation given likely price hikes caused by cost of improved materials and tariffs being passed onto the consumer. The Uni-fi is a screaming deal at $600-$700. It’s less attractive at $1100 or $1200. The proof is in how good they sound as obviously one must make compromises at this price point in aesthetics, fit and finish, etc.
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post #2623 of 2671 Old 01-14-2020, 05:55 PM
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Is 4ohm really that bad? I mean I know they are 4ohm AND only like 85db, but it just being 4ohm that bad? Martin Logan's are 4ohm so are a lot of others.
Google "Hoffman's Iron Law".

If you want to make bass from a less-sensitive small speaker/small enclosure, you need a lot of power to do so. This is why the Uni-Fi got a bad rap because people were trying to run them with inexpensive AVR's; while they got loud (due to the midrange/tweeter), they lacked dynamics because the power wasn't enough to allow them to do so.

They make a ton of very nice and clean bass...if you have the amp to push them.
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post #2624 of 2671 Old 01-14-2020, 07:03 PM
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4ohm really doesn’t say much and no it’s not a problem per se. There’s no standard for this measurement over the entire frequency range anyhow. It’s just marketing, an opinion. However, it does hint that these speakers sound their best when pushed with high power, high current capability amps. Like ~400W solid state monoblocks. Which is kind of a strange pairing for entry level speakers. Fortunately I have such amplifiers.

I’ve been so close to pulling the trigger on the Uni-fi UF5. They’re so tempting at sale prices. I hope supplies last until late summer when I’ll be in a better position to buy them (on sale of course!) before being discontinued. I’ve got to finish some home projects first. It doesn’t make sense for me to buy them now knowing they’ll just sit in a box for 9 months.

I get the feeling that the value proposition won’t be as enticing with the next generation given likely price hikes caused by cost of improved materials and tariffs being passed onto the consumer. The Uni-fi is a screaming deal at $600-$700. It’s less attractive at $1100 or $1200. The proof is in how good they sound as obviously one must make compromises at this price point in aesthetics, fit and finish, etc.
I have been wanting them sense they came out. Maybe a new version would be improved but IDK, I am definitely not happy about the price increase.


The price makes me wonder how they would compare to the KEF Q550's


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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Google "Hoffman's Iron Law".

If you want to make bass from a less-sensitive small speaker/small enclosure, you need a lot of power to do so. This is why the Uni-Fi got a bad rap because people were trying to run them with inexpensive AVR's; while they got loud (due to the midrange/tweeter), they lacked dynamics because the power wasn't enough to allow them to do so.

They make a ton of very nice and clean bass...if you have the amp to push them.
What would be a good receiver to pair with them? Or do you need separates? I can't really afford separates, the prices are astronomical, the preamp processor alone is JUST as much as the receiver version and so are the amps...


Also I thought AJ made these speakers less sensitive specifically as a trade off to gain bass response.
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post #2625 of 2671 Old 01-15-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
4ohm really doesn’t say much and no it’s not a problem per se. There’s no standard for this measurement over the entire frequency range anyhow. It’s just marketing, an opinion. However, it does hint that these speakers sound their best when pushed with high power, high current capability amps. Like ~400W solid state monoblocks. Which is kind of a strange pairing for entry level speakers. Fortunately I have such amplifiers.

I’ve been so close to pulling the trigger on the Uni-fi UF5. They’re so tempting at sale prices. I hope supplies last until late summer when I’ll be in a better position to buy them (on sale of course!) before being discontinued. I’ve got to finish some home projects first. It doesn’t make sense for me to buy them now knowing they’ll just sit in a box for 9 months.

I get the feeling that the value proposition won’t be as enticing with the next generation given likely price hikes caused by cost of improved materials and tariffs being passed onto the consumer. The Uni-fi is a screaming deal at $600-$700. It’s less attractive at $1100 or $1200. The proof is in how good they sound as obviously one must make compromises at this price point in aesthetics, fit and finish, etc.
Spot on. So many of the Elac reviews comment on the price/performance advantage that their speakers bring to the table. The new Debut Reference speaker has rec'd some rave reviews but the price is now up significantly from the 2.0 and it's hard to imagine that the performance is up that dramatically from such similar drivers in the two series. However, they do look nice, sorta like cars in the 60s, put a piece of chrome on them and call it a SS.

Last edited by daddyora; 01-15-2020 at 05:10 AM.
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post #2626 of 2671 Old 01-15-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
I have been wanting them sense they came out. Maybe a new version would be improved but IDK, I am definitely not happy about the price increase.


The price makes me wonder how they would compare to the KEF Q550's


What would be a good receiver to pair with them? Or do you need separates? I can't really afford separates, the prices are astronomical, the preamp processor alone is JUST as much as the receiver version and so are the amps...


Also I thought AJ made these speakers less sensitive specifically as a trade off to gain bass response.
I have mine on a Denon x4200, but it was a x2100 before that. 4xUB5 and matching center. Both were able to play deafeningly loud and clean.
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post #2627 of 2671 Old 01-15-2020, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post


What would be a good receiver to pair with them? Or do you need separates? I can't really afford separates, the prices are astronomical, the preamp processor alone is JUST as much as the receiver version and so are the amps...
If you're crossing them over at say, 60Hz or 80Hz you'd probably be ok running them with one receiver...but it had still better be a powerful receiver. Spend the extra coin and get something like a Marantz that actually has the power they say they have.


Quote:
Also I thought AJ made these speakers less sensitive specifically as a trade off to gain bass response.
Yes...if you want to make bass out of a small speaker/small enclosure, the sensitivity will go down (due to several factors). Also being 4ohm should tell one that these speakers will need some power to play like they can.
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post #2628 of 2671 Old 01-15-2020, 01:13 PM
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I have mine on a Denon x4200, but it was a x2100 before that. 4xUB5 and matching center. Both were able to play deafeningly loud and clean.
good feedback, so it seems around 100 watts do them justice. thanks
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post #2629 of 2671 Old 01-15-2020, 03:01 PM
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Recently bought the Elac Carina BS 243.4 standmount speakers. Looking to get an integrated amp. Any recommendations? I'm thinking about Peachtree Nova150, Cambridge Audio CXA-81, Rega Elex-R and the NAD C388. Unfortunately unavailable to audition them here in Indy. Thanks!
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post #2630 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 12:56 AM
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http://staging.elac.com/series/debut-reference/

I thought I was sold on the light oak and white baffle version of these... but the walnut and black version are tempting as well.
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post #2631 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Google "Hoffman's Iron Law".

If you want to make bass from a less-sensitive small speaker/small enclosure, you need a lot of power to do so. This is why the Uni-Fi got a bad rap because people were trying to run them with inexpensive AVR's; while they got loud (due to the midrange/tweeter), they lacked dynamics because the power wasn't enough to allow them to do so.

They make a ton of very nice and clean bass...if you have the amp to push them.
What would be a good amp to drive them? I've been considering the Emotiva A-150; From the spec it claims
150 watts RMS per channel; 1 kHz; THD < 1%; into 4 Ohms.

Would it be enough, or would I need to go to the Emotiva A-300? Or something else outside the Emotiva lineup
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post #2632 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
I have mine on a Denon x4200, but it was a x2100 before that. 4xUB5 and matching center. Both were able to play deafeningly loud and clean.
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Originally Posted by HazeT View Post
What would be a good amp to drive them? I've been considering the Emotiva A-150; From the spec it claims
150 watts RMS per channel; 1 kHz; THD < 1%; into 4 Ohms.

Would it be enough, or would I need to go to the Emotiva A-300? Or something else outside the Emotiva lineup
I think I'm going to go with a Denon 3600H or 4500H MAYBE a 6500H...
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post #2633 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 03:53 AM
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Does anyone else think it's odd the Debut Reference towers and centers are 5" where the book shelves are 6.5" no 5" books? My issue with a lot of home theater speaker companies lack solutions for surrounds and over heads... I get it with Martin Logan and others that are more focused on music but ONLY KEF, Klipsch and Elac Debut seem to have full solutions.
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post #2634 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HazeT View Post
What would be a good amp to drive them? I've been considering the Emotiva A-150; From the spec it claims
150 watts RMS per channel; 1 kHz; THD < 1%; into 4 Ohms.

Would it be enough, or would I need to go to the Emotiva A-300? Or something else outside the Emotiva lineup
I think this notion that the Uni-Fis need gobs of power is overstated. I power mine with a 50 watt NAD C 326BEE and have never come close to straining the Uni-Fis. I have also had the Uni-Fis hooked up to a NAD C 275BEE amp (150 watts X 2) and couldn't hear any difference. Not a scientific test by any means and I'm not a "golden ear" by any stretch, but those were my observations.

Take into consideration your room size, how loud you listen, the type of music you listen to, and how far away you sit.

Use your search engine and look up "Peak SPL Calculator"

Under normal listening conditions, you will likely find that you are actually using a few watts. Yes, you need extra power for dynamic peaks but as I said above, I have never come close to straining my Uni-Fis with a 50 watt amp.
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post #2635 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 06:31 AM
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I think this notion that the Uni-Fis need gobs of power is overstated.

It’s not loudness that’s the problem. Most entry level AVRs will drive them to dangerous SPL. A better amp with more current capacity (higher wattage, better power supply, better components, better topology, etc.) will better drive the Uni-fi as the impedance varies significantly at different frequency levels. With this speaker you’ll get a better sound quality at the same SPL with a better amp. It’s all about those subtle audiophile qualities of pace, rhythm, timing, soundstage, accuracy, dynamics, etc.

You can power your Uni-fi with a $10k SET tube amp but it will arguably sound much better with a $3k solid state amp with 15-20x the power output. On the flip side, that $10k SET tube amp will likely sound sweeter with some super efficient speakers.

Of course the proof is in the listening and everyone will have different opinions depending on the system and room.
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post #2636 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
It’s not loudness that’s the problem. Most entry level AVRs will drive them to dangerous SPL. A better amp with more current capacity (higher wattage, better power supply, better components, better topology, etc.) will better drive the Uni-fi as the impedance varies significantly at different frequency levels. With this speaker you’ll get a better sound quality at the same SPL with a better amp. It’s all about those subtle audiophile qualities of pace, rhythm, timing, soundstage, accuracy, dynamics, etc.

You can power your Uni-fi with a $10k SET tube amp but it will arguably sound much better with a $3k solid state amp with 15-20x the power output. On the flip side, that $10k SET tube amp will likely sound sweeter with some super efficient speakers.

Of course the proof is in the listening and everyone will have different opinions depending on the system and room.
Loudness is a problem if you overdive speakers with an underpowered amp. But that is not what I was addressing. "Under normal listening conditions, you will likely find that you are actually using a few watts."

My response was to HazeT who was asking whether he needed to upgrade from an Emotiva A-150 to the Emotiva A-300. Either amp should work fine for him with the Uni-Fis.

As to whether the Uni-Fis will sound better with a higher quality amp, I'll buy that when someone proves it with a double blind test (for example the $450 NAD compared to a 3k solid state amp). The Spanish audiophile test with the Behringer A500 vs the YBA 2A comes to mind.

As I said above, I couldn't discern any difference in Uni-Fi sound quality when using a $450 50 watt NAD C 326BEE or a $1400 150 watt NAD C 275BEE.

Last edited by jagob; 01-16-2020 at 08:11 AM.
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post #2637 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 10:46 AM
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I have had a chance to listen to the Debut reference bookshelves last weekend, and I can say I was impressed. I have the original Debut line and always wanted to step up to the Uni Fis, but I may be changing my mind. The salesman thinks that these may just replace the Uni fis all together and the Carina will be the next step up, but you never know. Side by side off of the same amp i liked the sound of the debut reference a little better than the Uni fis. I am no audiophile by any means.
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Basement HT 5.1.2 - Marantz 6012, Outlaw 5000 - ELAC Debut F5 Towers, C5 Center, B5 Bookshelves - JTR Captivator 1200XS - BenQ2050a 92" Silver Ticket
Upstairs Living Room, Music 2.1 - Anthem MRX520 - Pair of Chane A1.5's, - SVS PB 1000 - Projekt Debut turntable - LG 55" B8 OLED
Bedroom 2.1 - Denon AVR740h - KEf Q300 Bookshelves - Klipsch R-10SW - TCL 49"
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post #2638 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jagob View Post
"Under normal listening conditions, you will likely find that you are actually using a few watts."
Yes but that is not static. Even if you are nominally only using a few watts on average, there can be rather dramatic dynamic bursts depending on the dynamic range and frequency of the music being reproduced. That’s where a better amp helps. Otherwise we’d all still be content using Dynaco tube amps no matter the speaker.

You tried two different amps from the same company and heard no difference. Good for you that will save you lots of money! Stick with the cheaper amp! But that limited experiment doesn’t represent all possible outcomes.
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post #2639 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigbirney View Post
I have had a chance to listen to the Debut reference bookshelves last weekend, and I can say I was impressed. I have the original Debut line and always wanted to step up to the Uni Fis, but I may be changing my mind. The salesman thinks that these may just replace the Uni fis all together and the Carina will be the next step up, but you never know. Side by side off of the same amp i liked the sound of the debut reference a little better than the Uni fis. I am no audiophile by any means.
Thanks for sharing. You're not the only one to essentially say the new Debut Reference's are at least equal to or better than the Uni-Fi's.

I know I've seen a few posts about people concerned about the large price increase from the current Debut line to the new Reference line. However, I can clearly recall an interview with Andrew Jones where in his design process, it's all about making and doing the best he can with the project scope AT THAT TIME.

Just because these new speakers are still being called the Debut line, I don't think it means they were destined to be 'underneath' the Uni-Fi line. I think the fact ELAC and AJ feel confident enough to place 'Reference' in the name of these speakers says a lot about where they feel the quality lands.

I agree, I think there is a good chance the current Uni-Fi line will be discontinued and hopefully, we see a new concentric design launch from ELAC and AJ later this year.
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post #2640 of 2671 Old 01-16-2020, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RiGoR View Post
Thanks for sharing. You're not the only one to essentially say the new Debut Reference's are at least equal to or better than the Uni-Fi's.

I know I've seen a few posts about people concerned about the large price increase from the current Debut line to the new Reference line. However, I can clearly recall an interview with Andrew Jones where in his design process, it's all about making and doing the best he can with the project scope AT THAT TIME.

Just because these new speakers are still being called the Debut line, I don't think it means they were destined to be 'underneath' the Uni-Fi line. I think the fact ELAC and AJ feel confident enough to place 'Reference' in the name of these speakers says a lot about where they feel the quality lands.

I agree, I think there is a good chance the current Uni-Fi line will be discontinued and hopefully, we see a new concentric design launch from ELAC and AJ later this year.
Agreed. The fit and finish on these is heads and tails above the Debut and Uni Fis, and that was always one complaint people had. It is becoming increasingly difficult to build something with quality components and a nice finish, and keep in into a price range most can afford . At my local shop the ELACs are the cheapest speaker they sell by far. They never even had anything below the Uni Fis that you could hear before, but they realy seem to like the DR and have received a lot of interest.

Basement HT 5.1.2 - Marantz 6012, Outlaw 5000 - ELAC Debut F5 Towers, C5 Center, B5 Bookshelves - JTR Captivator 1200XS - BenQ2050a 92" Silver Ticket
Upstairs Living Room, Music 2.1 - Anthem MRX520 - Pair of Chane A1.5's, - SVS PB 1000 - Projekt Debut turntable - LG 55" B8 OLED
Bedroom 2.1 - Denon AVR740h - KEf Q300 Bookshelves - Klipsch R-10SW - TCL 49"
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